Touch the Banner re: Concussions
Just wanted to share another opinion on the Shane Morris/Brady Hoke/Dave Brandon thing. This, from Magnus, someone who is at least moderately respected around here. To shorten his view:
Brandon handled this in the most idiotic way possible
Hoke and the medical staff (along with all other teams) need to have a way to be sure to prevent this
There is no good argument for keeping Hoke, based off his record and the struggles of the team over the past 18 games
The criticism Hoke is taking for how much he is concerned with player safety is unwarranted.
These are not the same as my opinions, but they are the opinions of someone who is --at the very least-- somewhat respected.
September 30th, 2014 at 11:20 AM ^
Agreed.
September 30th, 2014 at 2:23 PM ^
What I asked was "Do you know there was a head injury?"
You didn't. Nobody (fans, anyway) knew until last night. That's not nit-picking.
Yes, it is... because knowing whether there WAS a head injury is completely irrelevant to the fact that it was handled completely incorrectly.
Focusing on irrelevant details is the hallmark of nit-picking.
October 1st, 2014 at 5:58 AM ^
Wrong.
MGrowOld stated in another thread that there WAS a head injury.
I said that he didn't know that for sure.
That's not nit-picking. That's a direct contradiction of his statement.
October 1st, 2014 at 10:49 AM ^
A direct contradiction of a statement that was irrelevant to the entire discussion.
September 30th, 2014 at 10:13 AM ^
Magnus was the biggest proponent of (1) Shane actually got hit in the chest/shoulder; and (2) "we don't know if Morris was actually concussed."
As to the first point, it's absurd. The picture posted by MGoManBall above confirms Morris' neck is completely obscured by the Minnesota player's helmet, and his head moved backwards immediately upon impact. As for the second point, it doesn't matter whether Morris was actually concussed. What matters is that Morris took a vicious hit to the head, stood up woozy, and the coaching staff didn't immediately pull him out and check for a head injury, which Brandon's statement now confirms. Amazingly, on the post you linked, Magnus is STILL arguing that it does matter whether Shane had a concussion. Even David fucking Brandon disagrees with him on this point.
Magnus' nonsense is perfectly encapsulated in this post yesterday. In short, "what, we should stop the game every time someone looks like they got hurt?" As if this was a typical football situation. Give me a break.
September 30th, 2014 at 10:24 AM ^
In Magnus' defense, he does say this in the linked article:
"Yes. Is it also possible that a concussion could occur from a hit to the chest/shoulder? Absolutely."
September 30th, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^
That's not a defense, it's a non-sequitur, given that the crown of the Minnesota player's helmet clearly hit Morris' chin.
September 30th, 2014 at 10:12 AM ^
So let's not start attacking people. All of you can make your points and disagree in a better way.
I'd also point out that you can disagree with someone and still respect them.
As for the hit, what may have been the more damaging part of the hit was when his head snaps back and hits the ground.
September 30th, 2014 at 10:21 AM ^
Magnus is correct about when he says they should have just issued a statement after the game saying if Morris had a concussion or not, and if he did, they should have immediately apologized for not handling things properly.
Letting it drag out over the weekend and sending confusing, mixed messages just makes it look like they are trying to cover their asses while letting a young QB and the head coach twist in the wind, which is 100x worse than just admitting they f-d up during the heat of trying to win a game.
September 30th, 2014 at 10:40 AM ^
Magnus is correct about when he says they should have just issued a statement after the game saying if Morris had a concussion or not, and if he did, they should have immediately apologized for not handling things properly.
Whether or not Morris actually had a concussion has no bearing on whether things were handled properly, which Brandon's statement concedes. That's what Magnus continues to not understand.
September 30th, 2014 at 10:25 AM ^
That's it. Magnus is generally a good source for stuff and there's no sign of malice, but he has an awfully hard time admitting when he's wrong.
September 30th, 2014 at 10:26 AM ^
On a seperate topic, does anyone think that Sam an Ira from WTKA would make great White House Press secretaries? I was listening to yesterday's podcast and man they can really put lipstick on this pig that we call a football program.
September 30th, 2014 at 10:56 AM ^
that Morris had been checked after the game and he didn't have a concussion. I'm done with that show and my Scout subscription has been cancelled. I understand Sam's need for insider info for his job, but that was just a joke yesterday.
September 30th, 2014 at 10:27 AM ^
I have both taken and taught prevention of medical errors. The theme is always the same: it is the system that is at fault; not the people who try to exexute. Every system has to be fool-proof.
In Hoke's case, he was obviously overwhelmed at the buckets of shit that were raining down upon him and his team. He fucked up. But the system should never allow for that kind of fuck up, even under stress. It is the AD's job to make sure that there is a system in place for every sport that is specific to that sport.
Fire Hoke for being overwhelmed to a point where he can no longer do his job, but fire David Brandon for not ensuring that adequate systems were installed.
September 30th, 2014 at 10:48 AM ^
That's what I've been saying. Hoke clearly screwed up in even asking for a potentially concussed player to be put back into the game. But the system in place is supposed to stop that from coming to fruition. Paul Schmidt has been talked about very little, but he deserves a ton of blame. His job is to make sure that a coach cannot make that mistake.
The neurologist himself, in my opinion, is free of blame. Doctors stay at the opposite 30 yard line, outside of the team area. It was just too far for him to get there on time, particularly if he didn't see the hit and because Morris was not down for very long.
The system was broken. It probably would have worked in a traditional concussion case: the player is knocked out or laid out, the trainers attend to him on the field, and the neurologist is by that time in position to take a look at Morris when he comes off the field. The system was not prepares for this case. It is not an excuse. Hoke, Brandon, and Schmidt should be fired.
September 30th, 2014 at 11:16 AM ^
...but I have to wonder how many teams do the sort of potential-concussion-spotting that we all agree should exist. The realities of football and the realities of our (relatively new) opinions regarding concussions are often at odds.
I don't think we, as fans, should forget it wasn't too long ago that we loved the following picture:
September 30th, 2014 at 11:27 AM ^
September 30th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^
September 30th, 2014 at 11:28 AM ^
September 30th, 2014 at 10:55 AM ^
And much (times ~5) more succinct than I was able to say it (not usual for me around here unfortunately).
September 30th, 2014 at 10:56 AM ^
I am reminded of the Declan Sullivan tragedy at ND. There was a lot of blame to go around for the staff on the ground, but it was the AD's responsibilty to set safety guidlines that would have prevented it from happening.
September 30th, 2014 at 11:04 AM ^
Agreed. Sometimes it takes a situation like this for protocols to be put into place. I would be surprised if this situation does not force other programs to review how they would handle similar situations. I doubt athletic directors around the country are saying, "Well, um, we're just going to count on the coaches to see hard hits. Next up? Uniformz!"
September 30th, 2014 at 11:26 AM ^
September 30th, 2014 at 10:53 AM ^
Is it possible there were two shooters?
September 30th, 2014 at 12:14 PM ^
September 30th, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^
All I know is Brady Hoke is not a good fit for us and Dave Brandon is a weiner and they both need to find new destinations.
September 30th, 2014 at 12:06 PM ^
September 30th, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^
How this was happened from a PR standpoint is awful. If I taught a PR class, I would be talking about this a ton.