the just released schedules were a flat-out statement that the B10 doesn't believe SOS will matter in playoff selection
TomVH: Update on ATH Kris Frost and WR Devin Lucien
January 17th, 2011 at 11:30 PM | 
My guess is that they're
My guess is that they're
January 17th, 2011 at 11:29 PM |
Pray for Kris Frost...we need
Pray for Kris Frost...we need
Pray for Kris Frost...we need a blue chip player now more than ever.
Class of 2008 and 2009
January 17th, 2011 at 11:33 PM |
But...
But...
Doesn't Kris want to be a WR? What if the staff doesn't want him at WR? Are they just going to "turn their shoulder" to Kris like they did Devin? This Lucien story makes no sense to me.
January 18th, 2011 at 12:14 AM |
I thought in a drug induced
I thought in a drug induced
I thought in a drug induced rant I explained this earlier in the thread. This is all a ruse to convince Frost to come to UofM
UM football is my heroine
January 17th, 2011 at 11:32 PM |
All part of the master plan to return to tough football.
All part of the master plan to return to tough football.
You don't need wideouts to run the T formation and Maryland I. Of course we are a little short on personnel for that, but they'll work it out.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:35 PM |
Lucien
Lucien
I think the Lucien situation may be as simple as Hoke not believing that Lucien was a high end WR prospect worth using a scholarship on.
1. There's decent, but not great depth at WR now. This wasn't like offensive line (a position of super high need).
2. They may feel Flowers is close to a lock.
3. They may have promised Frost a chance to try at WR before moving him to LB. So that would make 1.5 WR in the class already...
4. ESPN's rankings say Lucien is only a 2 star guy. Now that seems extreme, but he does have a "light" offer list for a 4 star player like Rivals says he is.
I think Hoke probably thinks Lucien isn't quite a stud, and thinks the depth and situation with Frost is fluid enough that he's not worthwhile as a WR prospect. I have no idea if Hoke is right, but it's not crazy.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:37 PM |
The depth at WR is pretty
The depth at WR is pretty
The depth at WR is pretty thin, IMO. A few of them will be gone after 2011, and the other outside receivers are somewhat lacking in explosiveness/big-play ability.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:47 PM |
Magnus-I remember some on
Magnus-I remember some on
Magnus-I remember some on this board contemplated that we should maybe take 2 WR's this year when Conway was committed. If we get Flowers, is that enough. Do you think we need 2 WR's? And do you think Flowers or Frost as a WR is better than Lucien. I thought Coach Hoke should have taken him. I am just trying to understand what Coach Hoke is doing here.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:54 PM |
I think we should try to get
I think we should try to get
I think we should try to get 2 wide receivers total, but not 2 in addition to Conway (i.e. three total). Obviously Conway isn't in play anymore.
Lucien is a better WR than Flowers and Frost. Frost is a linebacker. He's being stubborn about playing WR, because everyone knows he'd be a better LB.
January 18th, 2011 at 12:01 AM |
Do you really think Lucien is
Do you really think Lucien is
Do you really think Lucien is a better WR than Flowers? I've been more impressed with Flowers, and Flowers has a MUCH more impressive offer list. Lucien wasn't really offered by any big name programs, except Nebraska and Miami. He's from Los Angeles yet was passed over by anyone good in the Pac Ten.
Flowers is taller, faster, and his offer sheet is sick - also offers from Miami and Nebraska, in addition to Auburn, Oregon, ND, Tenn, Florida State, and Oklahoma.
January 18th, 2011 at 12:05 AM |
Yeah. I'm not all that
Yeah. I'm not all that
Yeah. I'm not all that impressed with Flowers from what I've seen.
http://touchthebanner.blogspot.com/2010/12/if-i-had-my-druthers-wide-receivers.html
January 18th, 2011 at 12:12 AM |
All I'm saying is the offer
All I'm saying is the offer
All I'm saying is the offer lists are worlds apart and there's no excuse since Lucien plays at a very high profile school in one of the most highly scouted parts of the country.
January 18th, 2011 at 12:19 AM |
I agree with your
I agree with your
January 18th, 2011 at 12:31 AM |
agreed...
agreed...
maybe we don't have access to all the film or maybe we're just not cut out to be talent scouts, but I thought Lucien was a much more impressive prospect on video...what is it that these other services/schools are seeing? Devin accelerates quickly, seems to have some good speed, great hands, physical, catches jump balls, and runs damn impressive routes...I'm just rambling now, but it's so confusing...
January 18th, 2011 at 12:43 AM |
Without posting too much content
Without posting too much content
ESPN's scouting report on Lucien may be what coaches are seeing:
"Lucien is not a smooth and fluid athlete. He has adequate-to-good top end speed, but he builds to it. Lacks a second gear as a vertical guy and after the catch. He shows stiffness in his hips and is a short-strider that lacks lateral agility and fluid change-of-direction skills as an athlete. We feel he is a straight-line player at the wide receiver position."
Obviously the entire report isn't as negative as that. I just took the most negative parts there. It may be those issues holding him back however.
I don't know if that's it, but it's likely to me that Flowers is the better prospect. Offer lists are much more compelling to me than 3rd party ratings.
January 18th, 2011 at 11:57 AM |
Isn't stiffness in the hips
Isn't stiffness in the hips
Isn't stiffness in the hips bad for a defensive back? Coach Hoke offered him as a DB.
January 18th, 2011 at 12:19 AM |
From that offer list it also
From that offer list it also
From that offer list it also seems like alot of other schools like flowers better as a prospect too. Don't get me wrong because I was excited to have Lucein in this class but IDK if I'd say Lucein was the better prospect. I tend to lean towards offer sheets over so called Guru Raitings.
UM football is my heroine
January 18th, 2011 at 1:08 AM |
That's all I'm really trying
That's all I'm really trying
That's all I'm really trying to say. There is a whole staff whose job it is to evaluate these guys, and they've had ample time to do so. If Hoke knows the ins and outs of Lucien's game, knows Lucien has high interest in Michigan, and says he's not worthy of an offer to play WR at Michigan, who are we to say he is? Guys who've watched 2 or 3 highlight videos and saw how many stars he has on Rivals?
Before we jump all over Hoke for this, let's assume for a second that he's done his homework on this kid and made an informed decision that he felt was in the best interest of the team. If Lucien was a mid 3-star guy who loved UM no one would care that he was passed over.
January 18th, 2011 at 1:05 AM |
Watch Devin's film below.
Watch Devin's film below.
Watch Devin's film below. It's very good.
"The difference between a man and a boy is, a boy wants to grow up to be a fireman, but a man wants to grow up to be a giant monster fireman."
- Jack Handey
January 18th, 2011 at 1:10 AM |
I'm not saying it's not, and
I'm not saying it's not, and
I'm not saying it's not, and I admit I was excited to get a commitment from him. But I'm also not going to say that I'm a better judge of talent or of the needs of Michigan's football team than Brady Hoke, no matter how much time I've spent on MGoBlog. If he doesn't think Lucien is UM material, then I don't either. Best of luck to him wherever he ends up.
January 18th, 2011 at 1:44 AM |
But I'm also not going to say
But I'm also not going to say
But I'm also not going to say that I'm a better judge of talent or of the needs of Michigan's football team than Brady Hoke, no matter how much time I've spent on MGoBlog.
Dude, no way. 15,000+ mgopoints has to count for something. I keep getting close to 10,000 (in fact I did hit it once) and then I get hit with a flood of expired points from a day where I apparently went on a posting rampage or said something really funny (probably not).
Anyway, I am bummed and puzzled (obviously) that we are passing on Lucien, but I will wait until Signing Day to give a final word.
"The difference between a man and a boy is, a boy wants to grow up to be a fireman, but a man wants to grow up to be a giant monster fireman."
- Jack Handey
January 18th, 2011 at 2:10 AM |
Those damn expiring points
Those damn expiring points
Those damn expiring points are killing me at one point I had like 2,000 and distinctly remember being one of the first to 1,000 (I used to care about mgopoints because I thought I'd be able to trade them in for a t-shirt or at least a damn key chain)
Seriously though I'm going trust the coaches and I say the offer sheet speak for themselves. Do I know with WR is better no, so I'll go with the real experts not the self proclaimed ones. Is Lucien one hell of a prospect yes, Would I choose him over other WRs we are recruiting IDK thats why I'm a firefighter not a football coach.
UM football is my heroine
January 18th, 2011 at 3:45 AM |
F&*% expiring points. How
F&*% expiring points. How
F&*% expiring points. How can point expire because they are a year old when you've only been on the site for 3 months?
BTW I don't care how many points I have.
January 18th, 2011 at 4:44 AM |
Yeah once I realized there
Yeah once I realized there
Yeah once I realized there was no key chain coming in the mail, points became well pointless.
UM football is my heroine
January 18th, 2011 at 12:08 AM |
Thanks Magnus. Maybe Coach
Thanks Magnus. Maybe Coach
Thanks Magnus. Maybe Coach Hoke just wants one and go full out on defense. Problem is we don't have a WR coach, so is Borges making the call on this.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:49 PM |
Outside of Roundtree, I don't
Outside of Roundtree, I don't
Outside of Roundtree, I don't think any of the remaining WRs will have shown much going into 2012. With Stonum and Hemingway, and then probably Odoms and Tree in front of guys like Stokes, Jackson, and Robinson, I don't foresee them getting a lot of playing time/chances to prove themselves in the 2011 season. Jackson is a nice possession guy, Stokes still has potential, I think, and Robinson is a guy who has made some nice catches in practice but lacks explosion on the outside.
Thus, IMO, we will probably be going into 2012 with a very unproven WR corps. A high-end WR like Lucien is a privilege. And yes, his offer list isn't blown up, but that does not always mean something. Watching his film and reading the analysis on the kid, he has skills -- really good skills.
"The difference between a man and a boy is, a boy wants to grow up to be a fireman, but a man wants to grow up to be a giant monster fireman."
- Jack Handey
January 17th, 2011 at 11:53 PM |
The problem with thinking
The problem with thinking
The problem with thinking that Lucien is going to come in and challenge the current or future receiving corp is the degree to which we can expect experienced receivers to not live up to their ability versus Lucien living up to his hype. Call me pessimistic, but I've seen enough busts at wideout to wait until they are actually in college before proclaiming them as solid contributors.
January 18th, 2011 at 12:03 AM |
You do make a good point
You do make a good point
You do make a good point regarding hype and production.
IMO, Williamson might find himself at DB.
"The difference between a man and a boy is, a boy wants to grow up to be a fireman, but a man wants to grow up to be a giant monster fireman."
- Jack Handey
January 18th, 2011 at 12:11 AM |
I don't think you're
I don't think you're
I don't think you're incorrect to be upset, I'm just trying to be an optimist here. That, and Big Will/the last three years/TCU/FCS teams has made me suspect of every ranking.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:57 PM |
Comes down to the evaluation really
Comes down to the evaluation really
I'm not a scout, so my ability to gauge him from watching tape is non-existent. The analysis on him is hit and miss meanwhile. ESPN says he's got serious flaws in his game. They complain about his acceleration and his ability to change directions. I don't have a Rivals/Scout subscription, so I can't compare there.
But yeah, if you think ESPN is crazy (and they may well be), then this is kind of a shame. At the end of the day though, when his offer list is only so-so, and a guy who initially recruited him is essentially telling him to take a hike, I kinda have to think there may be visible enough flaws him that he's not worth crying over.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:53 PM |
So Hoke's right and everyone else is wrong?
So Hoke's right and everyone else is wrong?
I understand that Hoke was out West and maybe had people see more of his games in person than we did, but this doesn't seem right.
He looked polished on film and our current crop of WRs say average at best. Roundtree and crew had critical cases of the drops as the season wore on.
Even if we are close to a lock on Flowers, there's no law against having two top notch recievers in the same class. Look at Toomer and Hayes. That worked out well for us even though we had Derrick Alexander and Walter Smith for a couple of those years. Same goes for David Terrell and Marquise Walker.
Plus he was recruiting Lucien at SDSU. Unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume he was recruited to play WR for them.
January 18th, 2011 at 2:12 AM |
But that's the point while he
But that's the point while he
But that's the point while he may have been a good wr for SDSU doesn't mean he is good for us. Plus if Flowers is a sure thing than Luicen becomes a luxury and if most of the top schools passed on him its just not Hoke who is down on him.
January 18th, 2011 at 2:23 AM |
But if Lucien > Flowers...
But if Lucien > Flowers...
...then you take Lucien. It sounds like he was just as good a sure thing to commit as Flowers. And based on the schools he's considering now, that's not something to sneeze at. From everything I've read, and maybe it's just with blue stained glasses, Lucien was better than Flowers. Either way. it would not hurt to have both of them.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:44 PM |
Normally I would be pissed,
Normally I would be pissed,
Normally I would be pissed, but considering Lucien is from California I am going to assume Hoke and his staff have plenty of info on this kid and are making a very informed decision on him.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:45 PM |
Brennan Beyer
Brennan Beyer
According to Rivals, he met down with Coach Hoke today. Any update on how that went?
January 17th, 2011 at 11:49 PM |
Beyer is going to Miami
Beyer is going to Miami
.....for his family vacation.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:52 PM |
Spring Break
Spring Break
Going down with his family. He has a good head on his shoulders; staying out of trouble. Good to hear.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:59 PM |
i actually don't think
i actually don't think
he's going there. just wanted throw in a Michigan recruit/Miami reference.
Beyer is sold on Michigan. Don't worry about him.
January 18th, 2011 at 12:00 AM |
Thanks
Thanks
Thanks
January 18th, 2011 at 12:02 AM |
According to rivals
According to rivals
Beyer said his commitment was never in jeopardy. He also said Hoke is leaning toward putting him at OLB, and he is just fine with that.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:49 PM |
As much as we'd all
As much as we'd all
As much as we'd all personally like Lucien, both as a player and for the fact that he stands out as a kid that really wants to be here, it might be best to wait until the class shakes out. It seems like Hoke and his staff may have an idea of who they want to round out the class with.
January 18th, 2011 at 12:22 AM |
Round out the class?
Round out the class?
Did we get 17 commits in the last couple of hours?
January 18th, 2011 at 12:55 AM |
I don't think we're really in
I don't think we're really in
I don't think we're really in the "rounding out" stage. We're probably more in the "let's get a recruiting class together" stage.
Stay thirsty my friends.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:51 PM |
Wr depth in this class
Wr depth in this class
I agree... don't understand this Lucien business but Hoke recruited him a lot at SDSU so you might want to trust his judgment here a bit.
As for this class... if we land Flowers, also consider that we would still bring in Rawls or another RB and then move Justice Hayes to slot. Of course, Hayes is not an outside WR but at least then we are bringing in 2 WRs.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:56 PM |
Vista High
Vista High
Considering Lucien goes to Vista High School in SD I would imagine Hoke or his staff watched this kid play a few times this year and think he would be better on D.
January 17th, 2011 at 11:58 PM |
I think you're thinking of
I think you're thinking of
I think you're thinking of Stefan McClure. Devin goes to Crespi.
January 18th, 2011 at 12:10 AM |
So did Troy McClure
So did Troy McClure
So did Troy McClure
January 17th, 2011 at 11:57 PM |
So this means we're due
So this means we're due
for some great recruiting news to even out the recent suckage of late.
Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value.
January 18th, 2011 at 12:00 AM |
there is some other wide reciever
there is some other wide reciever
The only explanation is we are recruiting someone else. SDSU recruited him as a wide receiver - why change your mind now?
There is some other top flight wide receiver we want. And no I don't mean Flowers.
Otherwise this is beyond a stupid move...
January 18th, 2011 at 12:08 AM |
It's not possible
It's not possible
It's not possible that Hoke thought Lucien was good enough to play at SDSU, but not good enough to play at Michigan? That seems like the simplest explanation here...
My guess is that they're trying to build a rapport/pipeline in Florida, where Michigan has had considerable success in recent years. They might not intend to get those two guys, but they can at least say, "Hey, Mr. 2012/2013 Recruit, we recruited your former teammates."
Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 13