Hold me Tom.
TomVH: Update on ATH Kris Frost and WR Devin Lucien
So does this mean that him and frost were the two silent commits?
Kris Frost already had an in home with RR. If Hoke and staff do this while we are on probation it will be a disaster for the program. The only way the staff can see Frost is if he takes an unofficial to M.
Do you have a database of lolz cat memes cuz you my friend have been on fire today!
I tell life to go f*ck itself and find some lolcats to cheer me up.
Or do you tell the Google?
He tells life, I simply ask google.
At this point why wouldnt they tell him anything just to get a recruiting class?
Because that would be lying. We're not going to tell the kid whatever he wants to hear to get him.
That's b/c our coach is Brady Hoke not Les Miles
Nick Saban would disagree with that belief.
Fortunately, Saban will never be our coach. And we will never follow his practices.
Touche' my friend, touche'.
I study him and I see some things that are good for great teams. I watched RR accept failure as an option and therefore he is gone. Nick on the other hand, if you miss field goals, blocks, passes etc he literally recruits your position. We have no room to accept less than the best.
maybe the comment about RR.
I agree - there is nothing wrong with recruiting to fill positions of perceived weakness...that's what coaches are supposed to do. Lying to a recruit as was suggested above is something else altogether.
He got negged because Saban doesn't just recruit your position on the field - he recruits to fill your scholarship position when he finds a way to get you off of the team. That, my friend, is bullshit, and nobody here wants Michigan to employ such practices. Not everybody's soul is for sale quite so cheaply.
The coaches actually think we have enough depth at WR? Really? Maybe he's not tall enough?
I guess Flowers is a bit taller, but still...
him as a WR than not have him at all......
No need to tell him what he wanted to hear, but a talented kid just should not be turned away especially when numbers are short. Unless he's messing with us, this is just disturbing/frustrating.
Call me crazy, but maybe we shouldn't be turning away 4* guys who want to play for Michigan because we want to switch their positions?
I guess maybe it's better than being dishonest and forcing a switch later, but jesus this class is horrendous bordering on catastrophic and you'd think we'd be in the market for top-flight talent.
I think everyone is going to be thrown off by this. I am shocked, wasnt he being recuited by SDSU? I guess Hoke is really set on getting the defense better, and brining in a TON of DBs. This is unfortunate, I thought he would be a great WR. With that said, I will put my trust in Hoke and his staff. Finish this strong.
I agree the Lucien thing has me really confused. Another possibility is that they may not take a full class this year in order to bank the scholarships for next year. By then they will have a better idea of what positions need to be addressed. Just a shot in the dark.
I thought about this possibility as well, but, with the defense numbers that we put up (or didn't), and the inconsistency our offense showed, I would think they would want to get guys in the door soon than later, to start righting the ship.
It is possible that this staff is not sold on the abilities of defensive backs on campus.
Not to mention the fact the we currently have exactly TWO commits on the offensive side of the ball, one of whom is a lineman who is on the fence. I know defense is an area of need, but teams always need WRs and QBs. We currently have none. Zero. Why would we be turning anyone away?
I'd like to think that Hoke will be able to turn this around in two weeks, but how can this possibly end well? We have 10 commits right now. 10. And that's assuming nobody else jumps ship.
Perhaps Hoke thinks that WR isn't a position of need for us. If that is the case, then it may indicate the usage of less WRs than under RR. Hopefully this doesn't mean a whole bunch of 2 WR sets.
We do seem to have depth at WR...but could the call have been made to Devin, because things are a done deal with Hakeem Flowers possibly?
Now what would the options of WR behind Lucien be? Do we have a shot at Flowers? And if not, why wouldn't we recruit Lucien for WR?
Tough to see a kid who was so excited about going Blue not get his chance.
This is not making sense Brady Hoke. This is on you Dave Brandon.
How is this one on DB if the reason Lucien wanted out was because Hoke wanted to switch his position?
you don't get competent that quickly with this recruiting classes full of defensive players. It takes at least 2 years for them to make a significant impact/contribution to the team. Michigan needs talents regardless of what side of the ball they play at.
This one hurts my soul. This kids highlight film causes me to daydream, I can't believe we're not offering him at WR.
Seriously great job in this last week. Epic.
Edit: Funny your mgohandle revolves around the Dude, who wouldn't be such a fickle tool like you are
So I take it are pleased with coming in just behind MSU and Wisconsin in the recruiting rankings? Well I didn't realize our new standards around here. I will adjust accordingly.
I think you accidentally a word there, buddy.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion man.
Seriously though, it's disappointing to see a longtime contributor like you become such a downer. Lighten up, we're all in this together as fans. Show some support for those who do want to be a part of our team.
So 8th place in the B1G recruiting rankings isthe new good? Ok, I'm in for the positives which include... a great finger point... and some tough talk about Michigan tradition... sweet! This is the best off season ever!
Somebody needs a hug!
Tom Hagan 2.0
Your meltdown is epic.
Dude. Shut it. What good is it to just be whining and sulking about everything? You're just begging to be negged violently.
look at the bright side!
we are only 4th among the legends!!
May I inquire as to what Senor Dudeness is saying that isnt true? Magnus basically says the same thing and everybody nods their head and agrees with him. His Dudeness says it and he gets hammered like its the Spanish Inquisition.
Let's face facts. EVERYBODY on this board wants Hoke to succeed but there are some very disturbing things happening now. We are losing commits, we don't have a DC and a very talented kid who wanted to come here just got told we are switching his position.
What about the current situation are you happy with that Dudeness should be focusing on?
I am happy that at least one person on the board isn't a caller on the Huge Show. Good times. Things have changed around here. People like you used to be the majority.
Everyone on this board was desperately holding on to a coach that was gone while making outlandish analogies about the character of fellow posters?
No, that was never what the mgoboard was about. Stop being such a fucking tool.
See back in the day this would have been a banning. Nobody goes to personal attacks quite as quickly as a stupid person. It's cool though. Good luck with your 14 year old pregnant daughter. Things will get better when you are dead.
Nobody goes to personal attacks quite as quickly as a stupid person. It's cool though. Good luck with your 14 year old pregnant daughter. Things will get better when you are dead.
Good to see a fellow alum being either incredibly ironic, or incredibly dumb. Given the last three weeks, I'm going to go with the latter.
Damn speaking of personal attacks that used to get the banhammer this would be one. I'm not saying what your saying isn't completely true or false, and you do have the right to your opinion, but damn you don't have to be such a debbie downer about it. There is nobody on this board that thinks fucked up things aren't happening with the program and I guarentee that not a soul is ok with michiganhaving such a shitty recruiting season. Let's at least give BH a month if this is still going on then thats fuck up and you'll have every reason to complain but give it a chance, that's the same thing everyone else is doing.
Good luck with your 14 year old pregnant daughter.
What in the hell?
I wasn't sure what to think until we decided to turn away Lucien as a wideout. WTF. Isn't it more likely to have Williamson switch to defense? What makes Hoke such a great talent scout, by wanting a WR become a corner when everyone is recruiting him as a wideout.
Look - I know everyone wanted Lucien because OMG 4 stars, but do you think it's possible that Hoke just didn't think he was a good enough receiver? Lucien had a solid highlight video and some good offers, but this is a west coast guy who didn't get offers from USC, Oregon, Washington, Cal or Arizona, the top 5 teams in the Pac Ten. If those teams didn't think he was worthy of an offer, isn't it possible that Hoke didn't either?
If we take lesser talent, you bitch. When a lesser talent wants us but we say no, you bitch. It would be one thing if Hoke wanted him but couldn't close the deal. He decided he'd rather use this spot on someone else.
Hoke recruited Lucien to play WR for SDSU. Now, he wants him to play on the defensive side all of the sudden. That does not compute.
But this isn't SDSU. Maybe he wanted Lucien as a WR at SDSU because his WR group was much weaker than the one we have here so he was more in need of any WR. Maybe he knew that being at SDSU he wouldn't be able to do better then Lucien, but at M he thinks he can.
Not everyone Hoke felt was worth an offer at SDSU will be worth an offer at UM. I know that because Rivals gave him 4 stars we're all up in arms, but maybe Rivals is the one who is wrong about his talents, not Hoke. Sometimes that happens.
Hoke also felt that Anthony Sheffield was good enough for an offer at WR for SDSU. Would you want him to be at UM?
he's worthy enough for a Michigan offer. Ditto with Hoke on recruiting Lucien when he got hired. To go 180, it is interesting nonethless.
Well, we don't know how Hoke felt about him when he got hired, but I agree with you that it's interesting. And just because RR likes a kid, doesn't mean Hoke will, and I'm glad that's not the case.
I'm sure Hoke knows something we don't, because no coach turns away a player that he thinks would be a good addition. Either he isn't sold on him as a football player or he has other plans to fill that spot.
after Odoms, Stonum, and Hemingway graduate after next season who do we have that has done anything at WR? Roundtree has done his damage at the slot and we don't know how he will adjust to being outside and being covered by a CB instead of a safety or nickel. Which underclassman are you placing bets on to step up?
...Jerald Robinson upped his profile his last year of HS enough to get a 4-star ranking from Scout, and Jeremy Jackson didn't look out of place this year when he played. If Ricardo Miller doesn't move to TE I think I should at least mention that at one time he looked like a really good recruit...
That Mike Williams was once a 4*.
I wilL buy this if hoke actually fills this class (seems doubtful at this point). If he has one or more unused when nsd comes and goes this decision to try and convert a 4 star recruit will look idiotic
Except that it's been widely publicized (and I'm sure Hoke is aware) that both Michigan and Ohio will have bumper crops of talent in 2012 and OSU is projected to have a small class. Lots of recruiting gurus have said that it would behoove Michigan to bank a few scholarships for next year.
Maybe Hoke knows this and is only going to give a 2011 scholarship to a kid he's really sold on, since he knows he can fill that spot with a stud the following year.
i've heard this too. i would bank at least a couple schollies for next year unless a bunch of studs flock to UM in the next couple weeks. but i doubt that.
We currently have 8 to 10 commits and some of them are taking visits. With a class size projected up to 20 there is no way they fill the class. With offers out to two more corners and three already being in the class is Hoke going to turn away Hollowell or Countess? Brown is already in school so that's not an option.
Then there's the matter of offering the two kids committed to Tennessee who have stated they have no interest. Wasting time when you have two weeks to come up with a class is not a good idea.
With Fisher gone and Posada looking around (IMO he's gone too) we have one Oline commit (2 if he doesn't screw up the Bryant committment) to go along with one last year. Danger ahead if this doesn't change quickly.
...I'd say the Raven offer was more about getting a safety. There's that 6'7 OL that is being discussed to replaced Fisher (though according to Fisher's HS coach he hasn't ruled out MI).
I'd be willing to place a beer bet that Posada stays with MI except I'm not comfortable with anyone in the forum knowing where I live (though for the one poster here who does know me, I'd be willing to make that beer bet with ya if you think Posada's gone...).
...what did you expect?
I would've expected the following:
1. To not terminate the existing head coach unless we had superior replacement signed sealed and delivered.
2. That once it was clear that the replacement was not available (either JH or LS) to keep what you have and force a change in the defensive staff
3. That if that wasnt possible because RR refused to fire his buddies (a distinct possibilitiy) that the replacement search would include ALL potential candidates and not just those coaches that previously attended or coached at Michigan.
4. That if the litmus test for DB was a prior affiliation here to be honest about that and not play the fan base and alumnai like fools.
5. That once the selection of Hoke was made that his assistants would be quickly filled with the best available candidates, not just Hoke's friends, even if it meant paying top dollar for the talent
6. That we would move heaven and earth to hold everyone we had in the class while swiftly moving to secure the open slots we still had available.
There's probably more but that's a good start. You asked........
Preach it brother. Any competent athletic director would have followed a protocol similar to what you outlined. If it turns out we are delaying dc hire for some hokey nepotism, we need the head assplode graphic back up on the banner. I am hopings hoke handles his dc selection process better thanbrandon handled his hc search but this delay is not encouraging
I guess I will write the entire thought down.
When there is a coaching change, did you not expect some commits to switch or at least lose interest?
It doesn't matter who is let go or how, and it doesn't matter who is hired or how. When there is a coaching change, some commits will have a change of heart. Part of the decision is to play for a certain staff b/c relationships have been built and they feel they fit in the scheme. Yes, the university is a part of it, but when 2/3 of your reason for going is out the window, a player would have to be a fool to not at least consider his commitment.
If you were an aspiring aerospace engineer and the School of Engineering had a change of leadership in the aerospace department that would change its reputation and ranking, I would think it would be in your best interests to consider other schools.
First of all, I'm not saying the same thing as His Dudeness.
And secondly, I've faced plenty of opposition on this board. If people are agreeing with me, I can assure you it's not due to people loving me more than His Dudeness.
WTF? Was Singletary just burning bridges because he's pissed about losing his recruiting coordinator job? I have no effing clue why they would only want Lucien as a DB. We have ZERO receivers in this class, Lucien is a good one, and we're in on - or have commitments from - a good number of defensive backs.
That's just stupid.
My apologies. I read the above as being correctly critical of our current coaching staff decisions and in such, similar to what Dudeness was expressing.
Ah-ha. My intent with that comment was not to indict the entire football program/coach/athletic department like His Dudeness does. He seems to be Chicken Little at this point, where I'm just kind of saying "Well...things might turn out okay, but this particular decision is dumb." I'm actually kind of being an optimist right now, at least compared to many on the board. I'm willing to wait until National Signing Day before deciding whether this class is truly going to be horrible or not.
Ok that makes sense. It just seems to me like the board is on a Jihad with His Dudeness right now (sorry MgoSparty) and a lot of what he's complaining about I happen to agree with.
And agree on the signing day grading period. I have frequently said (and gotten negg'd for saying) that the verbal commits are just about one step up from worthless.
You're right. I haven't seen this much brethren on brethren crime since glen Winston was doling out subdural hematomas.
I think the whole anti-Dudeness movement has less to do with his opinion and more to do with how he's choosing to express it. It's one thing to say that the recruiting is going really poorly, it's another to be a raging asshole in order to get your point across.
Agreed that the current tone of the board lately will get you some negs for being overtly negative about the state of things, but the flame war on Dudeness is more about pessimism-fueled, panic-flavored e-raging.
I think part of it might be Dudeness' defense of everything Rich Rodriguez (EVERYTHING), and now when Hoke loses a couple recruits that weren't his he goes off the deep end acting like only the worst coach in history of college football would lose a recruit during a transition period.
I negged you just to prove you a prophet
Sweet. At least I'm right in one way.
I wouldn't be so excited to be labeled as a prophet, they have a tendency to get stoned to death when people don't like the truth they're laying down.
When something is pointed out brings a negative kneejerk reaction, maybe it contains some level of truth. I totally agree with the above post. Dudenesses abrupt tone is a reaction to the harsh reality confronting everyone on this board. While we may disagree on how to do it, we want Michigan winning, rolling tOSU, MSU, etc. When negative things happen, turning a blind eye doesn't make it go away.
Hopefully what we saw in the bowl game SDSU played in v. Navy, will be a prelude for Michigan. That SDSU team was impressive. Hopefully BH has the winning formula quickly, because the Michigan football program has become a shadow of its former self.
I always try to be positive and look at things from a glass half full point of view...But holy fuck, I feel like every time I check for recruiting updates it just ends up being a Zoltan Mesko punt to my hangdown. Hoke hasn't been on the job long, still has 16? days to pull something out of his ass (somewhat hopeful yet somewhat sarcastic statement at the same time).
Dudeness might be angry, but we can't be blind to the fact things are fucking ugly right now. This decision really makes me wonder, watched this kid's Youtube for 5 minutes and can tell he is a baller. What's the worst that happens, he comes as a WR and it doesn't work out then switched to DB - SEE CAM GORDON
UM Football has been a cluster fuck since the ass raping in the Gator Bowl...Probably even since the ass raping in Columbus - Wisc - PSU - Iowa - MSU
PLEASE, for sake of my sanity give me something positive.
since the end of 2006-start of 2007.
Know what's funny...I wrote that, started thinking back even further (Llllllloyd's final few years-present) and am more pissed now...It's sad, I've been on this earth 31 years and NEVER experienced UM football experience 1 year like this, but this shit has been going for 4+ years now.
CFB programs go in cycles, we were lucky enough to dodge that for decades. I am realistic, but you know what, fuck this embarrassing mediocrity and please bring Michigan Football back!
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Edit: Wow, this got pushed really far down from the original Spanish Inquisition post. Really not as funny this far out of context :-(
This is blasphemy! No way in hell is a coaching change going to effect recruiting, NO WAY IN HELL! This dude is preaching the truth!
...was given the opportunity to play some WR. It sounds like that wasn't even part of the conversation with Lucien. That's a bit disappointing to me, especially since it seemed like one of his assets was being more polished as a wideout than many WRs coming out of HS.
You are on a roll, feel free to stop acting like a douche at any time.
Well let's just hope nobody goes pro and Frost come to Michigan!
Let's assume they have a plan and that it will all work out.
Auburn had QB Cam Newton, DT Nick Fairley, and WR Darvin Adams leave early
Then this mean I will be having a frosty soon!
I think the staff was expecting Newton and Fairley to leave early, but Adams was a bit of a surprise. Now, if they were expecting a LB to leave, then yes, it's good news
Also, I believe the deadline to declare for the draft was yesterday. Hopefully this means that Auburn will not have room and we can nab him.
Maybe they're pulling a page out of the Saban handbook and trying to see who they can force into a medical hardship.
Doesn't make sense with Lucien, he is a damn good receiver and based on film was probably the one I liked the most. He really seemed to go up and catch the ball at it's highest point.
How is Frost not turned off at least a little bit by the way Auburn has handled him since he tried to commit?
Lucien is one of the all around best WRs I've seen us recruit this year...I'm not sure I really understand why we would elect to move him to DB
Obviously Hoke and his staff have an idea for who they want at WR. I will assume they know more about recruiting than us, who follow Tom for our info.
We aren't really in a position to be turning down 4* caliber kids right now.
That love Michigan nonetheless.
Good luck Lucien. Michigan better have another talented receiver ready to commit or the staff is going to be looking pretty foolish.
Again great job! sucks about a 4* wide out but we got plenty of talent on roster right now for WR. I think its smart to let him know up front! That I think will HOKES WAY! But after watching film on frost the last couple months, our Outside Linebackers could use a great recruit in Frost! I am suprised he hasnt told Auburn to F OFF already!
We don't actually have that much long-term at WR. Junior, Stonum and Odoms will all be seniors and we can't ignore that Roundtree could go pro. That would be the top 4 WR's gone after next year. We can't afford to not be getting WR talent this class...
I seriously doubt Roundtree will be going pro any time soon. He's a great college WR yes, but he simply lacks the physical skills that would boost him into early round consideration.
I seriously LOL'd at Roundtree going pro. Roundtree is a great receiver but I can't even count how many gamechanging drops he had this year. I would say consistent drops are correlated with not being drafted early in the NFL draft.
It reminds me of when the BTN announcer compared Roundtree to Braylon, saying that his "measurables" reminded him distinctly of Braylon when he played for Michigan...
6'0, 175 lbs and lack of a top-level burst do not scream pro-prospect to me at this point. I don't think we'll have to worry about Roundtree leaving early.
catches sandwiched by dropsies. Man could Braylon drop some easy ones just like Tree.
Of what I wrote, all you keyed on was the Roundtree comment? Well done. That's not the point. I don't think he'd leave. Slight enough of a chance that it's worth mentioning but not likely.
My point? We still lose 3 of our top 4 WRs after next year. And assuming 5'9 slot ninjas don't translate that well to a more pro-style offence, there isn't really any proven depth behind those guys on the depth chart. I expect some of them to step up but I don't think we're in a position to not be taking 4-star WR's who want to be here.
We still have 3 receivers who have freshmen eligibility so we are not hurting for receivers as much as you are impling.
Ricardo Miller, Jeremy Jackson, Jerald Robinson, D.J. Williamson, Jeremy Gallon, Drew Dileo, Je'Ron Stokes, and Terrence Robinson beg to differ.
No offense to any of those guys, but they're completely unproven.
Furthermore, I doubt Dileo will be doing any pass-catching, and reports are that Ricardo Miller has switched to TE.
So, this new development of not wanting to recruit a highly sought after receiver for, you know, receiver, does not make any sense.
sure they're unproven, but a guy that's still in high school is somehow "proven"?
i'm just saying, some the dudes that are currently on the roster were as highly or higher rated than Lucien coming out of high school.
That's a somewhat underwhelming group, and the rumor is that Ricardo Miller has already switched to TE.
I think this is a "solid" group, but we don't have any true play-makers there. Stonum and Hemmingway have both showed glimpses of greatness (if they could stay healthy). I think we are missing the home-run threat when those two receivers are gone in 2012.
Agreed. And I think we need a big play wide receiver to run the type of offense that Hoke intends to run (at least once Denard leaves). You can get by with mediocre receivers when there are four or five on the field, because one is bound to get open. But if you've only got two on the field (with a TE and two RBs), then at least one of those guys had better be a stud.
None are proven, and reports from this past preseason practice had Robinson somewhat in the doghouse for effort.
Stokes has not shown much in two years (granted he has been behind some good WRs).
We know Williamson is a burner but he was very raw in terms of route-running.
Miller is rumored to be a TE.
Jackson, I think will be a good possession receiver, but is not a #1 (or number 1).
Can we stop reffering Lucien as that 4* WR. He's a talented wide reciever and is worth more than just his star rating.
It seems that Auburn is so loaded that Frost would see his best chance of playing is with us.
Feel bad for Lucien, he was pretty much a lock. Hope we don't regret this decision.
WTF? Was Singletary just burning bridges because he's pissed about losing his recruiting coordinator job? I have no effing clue why they would only want Lucien as a DB. We have ZERO receivers in this class, Lucien is a good one, and we're in on - or have commitments from - a good number of defensive backs.
That's just stupid.
Agree, Magnus. Well put, I would feel better if we still had Conway, but, unfortunately, he will not qualify.
Do we have any other WR prospects? I believe Flowers is still an option, any others?
Hakeem Flowers is really the only other guy who's considering Michigan, although I'm guessing Flowers will be a Wolverine on February 2. Still . . . we need a couple wideouts in this class, in my opinion.
Let me get this straight offer Flavin and turn away Lucien. Not off to a great start here. Is there anyone on the West Coast we may offer soon?
Is it safe to assme that Justice Hayes is not projecting as a RB vs. a Slot Ninja, with the new regime?
Flavin hasn't been offered yet
That's right, only a phone call, for now.
don't think flavin was offered
and only want one WR?
IMO, we need a couple of WRs in this class.
that's just the only explanation I can see especially given how strongly M appears to lead for Flowers.
where's my cookie?
And, isn't Flowers visiting this weekend or next? Just makes this more odd...
What's Singletary's role now?
He'll either be reallocated within the football program/athletic department or dismissed altogether.
After this let's hope he's dismissed...
I think you're overestimating the role of the recruiting coordinator. By almost all accounts, Chris Singletary has done a pretty awesome job.
True I put the blame on the wrong guy. It just makes little sense to me.
How is this Singletary's fault? Isn't he just relaying the message from the coach.
In the last day or so. It's a recent development. Hecklinski is taking over.
We have twenty ships available, with only 11 commitments I am disappointed with this decision. The kid has ability and wanted to be a "Michigan Man".
Chris Singletary is a stand up guy whom I know personally and I doubt very seriously that he would ever tell a kid something false if it wasn't a direct order from the coach. Besides by all accounts he will still hold on to his position.
Yeah, I was joking when I said that about Singletary. I think he's done a good job.
But The Wolverine says that Singletary is out as the recruiting coordinator.
Hoke better have freakin sammy watkins lined up.(yes i realize this won't happen)
Well,...just another crap day for Michigan football,.... Lucien a no go, still no DC..........Oh Well...The only WR we had commited is going juco at this time.... man,....what gives...!
Oh Well...there's always tomorrow.
also...specifically the SEC's signing numbers over the years:
Not sure why we would not want to recruit a highly-regarded kid at WR when we'll be losing several guys going into the 2012 season.
That quote from Lucien makes me feel like crap. Ugh.
Yeah um so well um you see um I'm confused about this decision.
I'm thinking this means the full house backfield is the future offense...
certainly feel bad for Lucien did he say anything about where he may be looking now?
Over my dead body will this kid go to ND and play WR!
not something you should need to sacrifice yourself for, that is some real dedication you have though haha
UCLA, Colorado, Miami (Fl), Arizona State, Kentucky
He's probably a UCLA lock
I hope to see a Hello: Flowers post here soon!
Don't listen to him Lucien! We want you at WR! He doesn't know what he's talking about!
I'm obviously insightful as hell... and I'm still clueless by this move with Lucien.
What am I missing? We have Countess / Hollowell and Brown committed at DB but we don't have any wide receivers.
To be fair we do have like 16 WR's including slot dots. That is some serious overkill for one position. I have heard that Flowers is locked up. This seems to validate what I heard.
I really do feel bad for Devin though. If they were only taking one, I like Devin better myself.
Would Frost be recruited as a WR?
I think the situation when RR was still here was that Kris would be given the opportunity to try WR, I'm not so sure, given the Lucien story, that this would be the case now. Lucien and Frost seem like tremendous talents, and I'd rather have them at WR here instead of pushing them out of the door because the coaches went them on defense.
That's what my first thought was...we were holding this WR slot for Frost. Since the pro style doesn't require as many slot ninjas as RR's system, BH was starting to ween our #s down to a more manageable number....1 WR for this class....Frost and then Flowers as a back up.
We want you to be a DB.
Translation-We don't have the balls to withdraw an offer, but you're not wanted here.
Hello Deanthony Arnett?
Hmmmmm interesting thought there.
Lucien was recruited pretty hard by SDSU. So, I cannot fathom that "you're not wanted here" would be the reason they are Peace'ing on Devin.
Ahh the DeWayne Peace treatment.
Wow, Lucien not a receiver? They must be looking for DB's with some size, that's probably why Dallas Crawford took off. Lucien was my favorite WR recruit this year, he was coming to AA for sure. Ouch! Frankly, we'll be fine without a WR in this class, BH is clearly committing to defense.
Slight problem with Frost here. There's no way BH is telling him he can start out at receiver if he dissed Lucien, that's probably the only thing that has prevented his commitment after Auburn bitched him. Frost needs to accept his fate as a linebacker, it will make him millions. He's vitally important to this class, SIGN HIM UP!!!
A lot of people on this board complained about defense and where were the defensive recruits. Personally, I don't understand this move by Coach Hoke, unless he has someone locked up. Of course, I don't have 20 years of coaching experience.
Maybe that's exactly what BH is doing here. If Lucein and Flowers were to commit it would be obvious that Frost stood no chance at playing WR, BH knowing this and i guess prefering Flowers and only wanting one WR in this class he decides to let Lucein go. In perspective it looks like a depth chart Frost could move up in a year, 2011 sees Frost red shirt and BH goes hard after a few 2012 WRs and tells Frost that if he wants to make it to the NFL it's going to be at LB thus forcing Frost to switch in the offseason. In this scenerio Forst is an all american LB for four years, and the WR depth chart looks like a naked swim suit model to top talent recievers in 2012.
Forst is an all american LB for four years
This is quite a prediction and my heart can't take much more teasing like this (although I hope it'll be true).
and this move defies logic...from a numbers standpoint and from a talent standpoint...Tom, at least if you talk to Devin again make sure he knows the Mich fanbase wanted him here...BADLY
also head scratcher - why if Frost loved the school so much - before RR was fired said he would come regardless of the coach - and the change is actually better for him on either side of the ball - why he is still hanging on Auburn's jock.
I guess wanting to be at Michigan isn't enough anymore. He might have even known the words to the Victors!
I feel for Devin...that will inevitably happen throughout the course of a coaching change. I don't think WR is an enormous need but a player of that apparent caliber is hard to turn away. The clock is ticking, hopefully the staff can get in gear and make some things happen with this class.
While we are on the subject of things that don't make sense. Why did the staff recently offer two guys that have been committed to Tennessee for some time now and both are firm commits?
My guess is that they're trying to build a rapport/pipeline in Florida, where Michigan has had considerable success in recent years. They might not intend to get those two guys, but they can at least say, "Hey, Mr. 2012/2013 Recruit, we recruited your former teammates."
Pray for Kris Frost...we need a blue chip player now more than ever.
Doesn't Kris want to be a WR? What if the staff doesn't want him at WR? Are they just going to "turn their shoulder" to Kris like they did Devin? This Lucien story makes no sense to me.
I thought in a drug induced rant I explained this earlier in the thread. This is all a ruse to convince Frost to come to UofM
You don't need wideouts to run the T formation and Maryland I. Of course we are a little short on personnel for that, but they'll work it out.
I think the Lucien situation may be as simple as Hoke not believing that Lucien was a high end WR prospect worth using a scholarship on.
1. There's decent, but not great depth at WR now. This wasn't like offensive line (a position of super high need).
2. They may feel Flowers is close to a lock.
3. They may have promised Frost a chance to try at WR before moving him to LB. So that would make 1.5 WR in the class already...
4. ESPN's rankings say Lucien is only a 2 star guy. Now that seems extreme, but he does have a "light" offer list for a 4 star player like Rivals says he is.
I think Hoke probably thinks Lucien isn't quite a stud, and thinks the depth and situation with Frost is fluid enough that he's not worthwhile as a WR prospect. I have no idea if Hoke is right, but it's not crazy.
The depth at WR is pretty thin, IMO. A few of them will be gone after 2011, and the other outside receivers are somewhat lacking in explosiveness/big-play ability.
Magnus-I remember some on this board contemplated that we should maybe take 2 WR's this year when Conway was committed. If we get Flowers, is that enough. Do you think we need 2 WR's? And do you think Flowers or Frost as a WR is better than Lucien. I thought Coach Hoke should have taken him. I am just trying to understand what Coach Hoke is doing here.
I think we should try to get 2 wide receivers total, but not 2 in addition to Conway (i.e. three total). Obviously Conway isn't in play anymore.
Lucien is a better WR than Flowers and Frost. Frost is a linebacker. He's being stubborn about playing WR, because everyone knows he'd be a better LB.
Do you really think Lucien is a better WR than Flowers? I've been more impressed with Flowers, and Flowers has a MUCH more impressive offer list. Lucien wasn't really offered by any big name programs, except Nebraska and Miami. He's from Los Angeles yet was passed over by anyone good in the Pac Ten.
Flowers is taller, faster, and his offer sheet is sick - also offers from Miami and Nebraska, in addition to Auburn, Oregon, ND, Tenn, Florida State, and Oklahoma.
Yeah. I'm not all that impressed with Flowers from what I've seen.
All I'm saying is the offer lists are worlds apart and there's no excuse since Lucien plays at a very high profile school in one of the most highly scouted parts of the country.
I agree with your logic...
...but I just don't see it on film.
maybe we don't have access to all the film or maybe we're just not cut out to be talent scouts, but I thought Lucien was a much more impressive prospect on video...what is it that these other services/schools are seeing? Devin accelerates quickly, seems to have some good speed, great hands, physical, catches jump balls, and runs damn impressive routes...I'm just rambling now, but it's so confusing...
From that offer list it also seems like alot of other schools like flowers better as a prospect too. Don't get me wrong because I was excited to have Lucein in this class but IDK if I'd say Lucein was the better prospect. I tend to lean towards offer sheets over so called Guru Raitings.
That's all I'm really trying to say. There is a whole staff whose job it is to evaluate these guys, and they've had ample time to do so. If Hoke knows the ins and outs of Lucien's game, knows Lucien has high interest in Michigan, and says he's not worthy of an offer to play WR at Michigan, who are we to say he is? Guys who've watched 2 or 3 highlight videos and saw how many stars he has on Rivals?
Before we jump all over Hoke for this, let's assume for a second that he's done his homework on this kid and made an informed decision that he felt was in the best interest of the team. If Lucien was a mid 3-star guy who loved UM no one would care that he was passed over.
Watch Devin's film below. It's very good.
I'm not saying it's not, and I admit I was excited to get a commitment from him. But I'm also not going to say that I'm a better judge of talent or of the needs of Michigan's football team than Brady Hoke, no matter how much time I've spent on MGoBlog. If he doesn't think Lucien is UM material, then I don't either. Best of luck to him wherever he ends up.
But I'm also not going to say that I'm a better judge of talent or of the needs of Michigan's football team than Brady Hoke, no matter how much time I've spent on MGoBlog.
Dude, no way. 15,000+ mgopoints has to count for something. I keep getting close to 10,000 (in fact I did hit it once) and then I get hit with a flood of expired points from a day where I apparently went on a posting rampage or said something really funny (probably not).
Anyway, I am bummed and puzzled (obviously) that we are passing on Lucien, but I will wait until Signing Day to give a final word.
Those damn expiring points are killing me at one point I had like 2,000 and distinctly remember being one of the first to 1,000 (I used to care about mgopoints because I thought I'd be able to trade them in for a t-shirt or at least a damn key chain)
Seriously though I'm going trust the coaches and I say the offer sheet speak for themselves. Do I know with WR is better no, so I'll go with the real experts not the self proclaimed ones. Is Lucien one hell of a prospect yes, Would I choose him over other WRs we are recruiting IDK thats why I'm a firefighter not a football coach.
F&*% expiring points. How can point expire because they are a year old when you've only been on the site for 3 months?
BTW I don't care how many points I have.
Yeah once I realized there was no key chain coming in the mail, points became well pointless.
Thanks Magnus. Maybe Coach Hoke just wants one and go full out on defense. Problem is we don't have a WR coach, so is Borges making the call on this.
Outside of Roundtree, I don't think any of the remaining WRs will have shown much going into 2012. With Stonum and Hemingway, and then probably Odoms and Tree in front of guys like Stokes, Jackson, and Robinson, I don't foresee them getting a lot of playing time/chances to prove themselves in the 2011 season. Jackson is a nice possession guy, Stokes still has potential, I think, and Robinson is a guy who has made some nice catches in practice but lacks explosion on the outside.
Thus, IMO, we will probably be going into 2012 with a very unproven WR corps. A high-end WR like Lucien is a privilege. And yes, his offer list isn't blown up, but that does not always mean something. Watching his film and reading the analysis on the kid, he has skills -- really good skills.
The problem with thinking that Lucien is going to come in and challenge the current or future receiving corp is the degree to which we can expect experienced receivers to not live up to their ability versus Lucien living up to his hype. Call me pessimistic, but I've seen enough busts at wideout to wait until they are actually in college before proclaiming them as solid contributors.
You do make a good point regarding hype and production.
IMO, Williamson might find himself at DB.
I don't think you're incorrect to be upset, I'm just trying to be an optimist here. That, and Big Will/the last three years/TCU/FCS teams has made me suspect of every ranking.
I'm not a scout, so my ability to gauge him from watching tape is non-existent. The analysis on him is hit and miss meanwhile. ESPN says he's got serious flaws in his game. They complain about his acceleration and his ability to change directions. I don't have a Rivals/Scout subscription, so I can't compare there.
But yeah, if you think ESPN is crazy (and they may well be), then this is kind of a shame. At the end of the day though, when his offer list is only so-so, and a guy who initially recruited him is essentially telling him to take a hike, I kinda have to think there may be visible enough flaws him that he's not worth crying over.
I understand that Hoke was out West and maybe had people see more of his games in person than we did, but this doesn't seem right.
He looked polished on film and our current crop of WRs say average at best. Roundtree and crew had critical cases of the drops as the season wore on.
Even if we are close to a lock on Flowers, there's no law against having two top notch recievers in the same class. Look at Toomer and Hayes. That worked out well for us even though we had Derrick Alexander and Walter Smith for a couple of those years. Same goes for David Terrell and Marquise Walker.
Plus he was recruiting Lucien at SDSU. Unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume he was recruited to play WR for them.
But that's the point while he may have been a good wr for SDSU doesn't mean he is good for us. Plus if Flowers is a sure thing than Luicen becomes a luxury and if most of the top schools passed on him its just not Hoke who is down on him.
...then you take Lucien. It sounds like he was just as good a sure thing to commit as Flowers. And based on the schools he's considering now, that's not something to sneeze at. From everything I've read, and maybe it's just with blue stained glasses, Lucien was better than Flowers. Either way. it would not hurt to have both of them.
Normally I would be pissed, but considering Lucien is from California I am going to assume Hoke and his staff have plenty of info on this kid and are making a very informed decision on him.
According to Rivals, he met down with Coach Hoke today. Any update on how that went?
.....for his family vacation.
he's going there. just wanted throw in a Michigan recruit/Miami reference.
Beyer is sold on Michigan. Don't worry about him.
Beyer said his commitment was never in jeopardy. He also said Hoke is leaning toward putting him at OLB, and he is just fine with that.
As much as we'd all personally like Lucien, both as a player and for the fact that he stands out as a kid that really wants to be here, it might be best to wait until the class shakes out. It seems like Hoke and his staff may have an idea of who they want to round out the class with.
Did we get 17 commits in the last couple of hours?
I don't think we're really in the "rounding out" stage. We're probably more in the "let's get a recruiting class together" stage.
I agree... don't understand this Lucien business but Hoke recruited him a lot at SDSU so you might want to trust his judgment here a bit.
As for this class... if we land Flowers, also consider that we would still bring in Rawls or another RB and then move Justice Hayes to slot. Of course, Hayes is not an outside WR but at least then we are bringing in 2 WRs.
Considering Lucien goes to Vista High School in SD I would imagine Hoke or his staff watched this kid play a few times this year and think he would be better on D.
for some great recruiting news to even out the recent suckage of late.
The only explanation is we are recruiting someone else. SDSU recruited him as a wide receiver - why change your mind now?
There is some other top flight wide receiver we want. And no I don't mean Flowers.
Otherwise this is beyond a stupid move...
It's not possible that Hoke thought Lucien was good enough to play at SDSU, but not good enough to play at Michigan? That seems like the simplest explanation here...
He's recruited others for Michigan he recruited at SDSU for offensive line and cornerback. Seems odd that Lucien would be the exception no?
We place a higher Expectation on our WRs than our CBs obviously
If this keeps up, we will become a team that has a stellar defense and an anemic offense. I can't wait for the call to rehire rr.
Think he likes Ann Arbor enough to be offensive coordinator?
Wouldn't this please every party?
Has anyone seen The Manchurian Candidate?
This thread escalated quickly. I mean it really got out of hand.
I threw a trident.
to lay low for a while.
Anybody notice the tiny (TINY) slot reciever next to him on some plays
I want him. just for laughs
Devin just dominates on every highlight (which is why they call them highlights, I guess).
So sad that he won't be wearing the maize and blue next year. Hoping there is a good explanation...
even if auburn wanting to accept Kris Frost,is that his first choice now,or would he look at Michigan and Auburn as his final 2 choices.
Well the deal with Lucien is completely stupid in my opinion. He's really good, can catch, high points the ball, etc. He loves Michigan and them telling him that broke his heart. We can get a good recruit who is also a 4* but instead we want another DB. I don't understand how we have 3 already can get Taylor, and offered more guys and then we do this....stupid.
It's a lot of news hitting the wire tonight. I think the theme tonight is we got to kick a-- the entire year. By the way is anybody watching the BB team implode like our beloved FB team.
I would expect Frost to know within the next couple of days whether Auburn has room for him. We'll see.
So Auburn should be able to tell him pretty quickly.
In any event, after reading this post, imagine how much grief the staff would get if a Frost/Auburn situation was going on.
Why the sudden change to DB? I am starting to get a true feeling that BH is believing the hype train of having an almost political mandate to make changes.....No DC, etc, former players commenting about decisions on RR well prior to OSU game in favor of bringing in Hoke for BH....I seriously hope they have a fing clue.....it is lonely being an M fan out in Nebraska, or in Missouri, or Georgia, or Maryland or Korea as I have done to watch the decline and stick with it. Turning away players who on film can play....2 wks from signing day is ALOT concerning for recruiting.....better have a strong close to the week!
The staff must feel really good about Flowers if they're basically rejecting Lucien. They must also be banking on Shawn Conway qualifying next winter.
A strange move at best, though.
As for Frost, I'll put him in the same boat as Dee Hart (for different circumstances) in that I'll wait till he signs a LOI before assuming he's set for a school. There's just too many conflicting factors right now. He'd be the gem of the class for sure, though.
So why doesn't the coaching staff want a 4* wide reciever to.....you know.....play wide reciever??
Just when I was starting to feel good about the Hoke hire, I hear this, and rumblings of Ron English part 2.
Damn it all.
has the ball hawking skills, and ability to go get it. Howver at his height and speed, could be a lockdown type corner. Donovan Warren type. With regards to Frost, if he wanted to be a Wolverine it would of hapened. I think Brady Hoke will really push for him, as he did with Kellen Jones.
I was eating Chinese food the other day and shoved the chopsticks up my nose and into my brain.
I hate it when that happens.