WR DeAnthony Arnett was named MVP, according to his brother, for wide receivers at the Nike camp this weekend. The event was held at Ohio State, and Arnett was hoping to get his fifth star after this event.
He was the co-MVP, along with another Michigan target, Shaq Washington.
I'd like a 5 star WR.
Nice
This guy is huge for this class as far as Michigan recruiting goes. Things are looking good for D. Hart now, and hopefully this guy will come around.
Andy, for the last time, I don't want your giant box of pornography.
I watched his 7-on-7 film a
I watched his 7-on-7 film a few times, and the kid is amazing. He runs routes like he's on rails and has an arsenal of moves he uses to shake defenders.
As much as I'd like to see him in a winged-helmet, there's a part of me that would like to see him end up in a pass-oriented offense like Notre Dame, USC or Oklahoma that will allow him to develop his particular skill set to its fullest potential.
I think he'd be selling himself short if he ends up going to MSU.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
Why would you say something
Why would you say something like this? So you are just admitting that elite WR's shouldn't come to Michigan because they won't be developed to the fullest? Wow
I've been called the songbird of my generation, by those who have heard me. THAT GOOD
Not exactly. Different WRs
Not exactly. Different WRs come with lots of different skill sets. Speed, hands and blokcing ability are attributes that allow WRs to flourish in RR's offense. This is why I think Conway is going to do very well in RR's offense. DA is a different animal though, and he has the route-running skills that would allow him to put up some monster numbers in a pass-oriented offense.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
What is this opinion based
What is this opinion based on? Watching a few highlight clips?
Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me.
There's more than 1 reason to be afraid of me. If you want to find out make the trip down here some time, I'll show you if you like. - the_big_house 500th
Basically, yeah, whatever's
Basically, yeah, whatever's out there. We as fans all have access to the same information with respect to recruits. If I've seen it, you've probably seen it too.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
Hmm
Well I've got to disagree with you. Speed, hands, blocking ability, and whatever other qualities Arnett has are important in any offense, not just the spread-n-shred. Also, I wouldn't expect ND to have any sort of legitimate pass-happy offense to offer this kid since Clausen just left. Lastly, once our offense (and quarterbacks, especially) develops to the point where we want it I think top-notch receivers will be able to reach their full potential here. As a Michigan fan (I'm assuming you are one), I would think you'd want the best players possible to come to Ann Arbor. Maybe it's selfish, but to me that's part of fandom.
Re ND, I think
he's probably basing that on Kelly's track record of moving the ball through the air. I would expect ND, with Crist as a Junior when Arnett would conceivably arrive on campus, would have a pretty decent passing game.
Heck, I expect them to throw a lot this year with Floyd, Evans, Rudolph ... it probably won't be as good as clausen-led last year's o, but these are their best skill guys, in my opinion, especially Floyd and Rudolph.
Regarding ND, don't be so
Regarding ND, don't be so sure.
Kelly didn't have Claussen at Cinci either, but he still ran a pass-oriented version of the spread there, and as a result, Cinci threw 5 more times per game than any other Big East team in '09, and they led the conference in passing yardage for the last two years in a row.
And I find it hillarious that you would question my fan-status over this. I clearly stated that I would love to see him in a winged-helment, but the side of me that would like to see in-state kids do well no matter what would also love to see him end up in a pass-oriented offense.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
I'm not sure why you think we
I'm not sure why you think we won't be pass-oriented. Maybe you're assuming Denard will take most of the snaps and thus run a lot or look only to our slots/TEs. But I wouldn't really say we were run-oriented last year. I think our QBs (Tate, mainly) had trouble looking to our outside guys but like I said, with more reps I think this will change. You're probably looking at RR's track record at WVU with Pat White and extrapolating that style of football, which is fair. But I'm hoping that we can develop our QBs into better passers than White and I know we already have better receivers. I think this will translate into a balanced offensive attack.
And again, maybe it's selfish, but I'm not a fan of Michigan HS football. I'm a fan of UofM football and thus want the best recruits possible to play there.
I'm assuming that we'll be
I'm assuming that we'll be run-oriented because RR's teams are almost always run-oriented.
And I don't know why you wouldn't say we were a run-oriented offense last year when we were 3rd in the conference in rushes per game and 8th in the conference in passing attempts per game, even in light of the fact that our starting QB was a very good passer, and is a far better passer than he is a runner.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
2 freshman QBs and 2 senior
2 freshman QBs and 2 senior RBs will tip the scales in that direction. Yes, Tate was a very good passer, but showed serious regression toward the end of the season (maybe due to injury, maybe due to playing tougher competition), and was a liability with turnovers. Those factors will also keep the ball on the ground. Again, I think practice/experience can balance out our offense and make it lethal.
FYI I'm not negging any of your posts. You make valid points and are level-headed; I just disagree with a lot of them.
you should go back
and watch tate down the stretch. he actually some of his better games in the latter half of the season. it's easy to forget considering how he threw 4 picks and fumbled to give OSU a TD, but he played well to end the season
True
He was great against Purdue and Wisconsin. His performances against Iowa, Illinois, PSU, OSU (which you noted) were definitely lackluster, though.
Gee, being a true freshman
Gee, being a true freshman with a severe sprain in his throwing shoulder probably had nothing to do with that.....
....and that said, he still had a very, very good TRUE freshman year.
You lot are insufferable.
I'm pretty sure I said that
..jerkoff.
Agree about Iowa, PSU, and
Agree about Iowa, PSU, and OSU, but not Illinois. He had 257 yards on 23 passing attempts in that game.
I think your argument is
I think your argument is rational and that it could happen, but I also think that RR will gear the offense towards balance because he'll have all the players he needs (where at WVU, White wasn't an elite passer, just an efficient one for 15-20 attempts per game). It'll really depend on our passing game this year as to whether Arnett comes. Personally, I think he'll like what he sees, and hopefully that's enough to keep him in MI. If he doesn't come here, I'm almost certain he'll be going outside the Midwest ala RoJo.
That said, I don't know why you're getting negged so much. It's just an opinion, people...
I'm just curious if you
I'm just curious if you understand that nearly every offense in the Bo-Mo-Lloyd era was "run-oriented."
c/o 2008
GO BLUE!
I don't remember what the
I don't remember what the exact quote from Arnett was on ND, because it was from a few months ago, but it was basically "look at what Kelly did with Mardy Gilyard and he was only a 2 star, its exciting to think what he could do with me"
That describes why ND Is in his top 3, above everything else
Current Smug rating: "lethal"
Does anyone get the feeling
Does anyone get the feeling that Arnett is a "me" kind of WR?
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he is definitely a worker. I
he is definitely a worker. I don't know if that is because he wants to prove what he can do or if he just wants to show off but this isn't the first time I have seen him talk about wanting a 5th star.
Current Smug rating: "lethal"
I see a Hiroshima-esque
I see a Hiroshima-esque neg-bombing in your future...
You're probably right, but I
You're probably right, but I don't allow the board's point system to prevent me from stating my opinion, and I find it odd that some posters would let something so trivial prevent them from stating theirs.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
Indeed...
I think he should head to a
I think he should head to a JUCO just to wait until Mike Leach gets a job.
Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me.
There's more than 1 reason to be afraid of me. If you want to find out make the trip down here some time, I'll show you if you like. - the_big_house 500th
What?? I mean, if Florida
What?? I mean, if Florida can run that offense and throw Percy Harvin anywhere, and he can still be successful in the NFL (small sample size though, so far), then I'll take Arnett and let his talent and production speak for him. I'm really afraid he's going somewhere else though.
You raise a fair point
You raise a fair point regarding Florida. I'll have to give that some thought, but I think perhaps Florida/Harvin may be more of the exception than the rule when it comes to WRs flourishng in a run-first offense.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
He has stated that he plans
He has stated that he plans to wait until after his senior season to decide, and I think many people (myself included) are reading those plans at least in-part to mean that he wants to see what Michigan does with their passing game and with their overall record this coming season, which could put us back in the mix.
I have a feeling that, even though he knows that a WR might be less likely to record a 1,000+ yard season in RR's run-oriented offense, he realizes that going to Michigan would still land him some big time national exposure, much more than he'd get at a smaller program like MSU, which means he wouldn't need to put up monster numbers in order to grab the attention of NFL scouts.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
I agree regarding the
I agree regarding the offense. It does have the potential to be multi dimensional, although it's been pretty one-dimentional since RR's arrival.
If that is what is giving Arnett reservations about coming here, the best thing that the Michigan recruiting staff can say to him is that the only reason we've been as run-oriented as we have is because we haven't had a receiver here with his kind of 5-star talent since RR arrived.
Arnett also had to take note of the fact that 3 of Denard's 4 TDs during the spring game (which he attended) were through the air, and a couple of those drives were only made possible because of the running game (or the threat thereof)
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
I'm not sure, and am too lazy
I'm not sure, and am too lazy to look it up, but I thought that he grew up a M fan, which has led his desire to enroll here. I always viewed his reservations with M spawned from the minor set back to the program, but if we win and balance the play calling, I believe he'd come here.
But then again I might have just all made this up, I can't remember...
I guess he has no other
I guess he has no other offers other than Michigan and MSU. Are you serious? He has offers from top level teams that offer an array of offensive choices. Hopefully he chooses the one that is best for him and getting him into the pros.
Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis.
congrats to him, sounded like
congrats to him, sounded like he had been looking forward to this camp for quite sometime. I wouldn't be surprised to see him as a 5star before his recruiting ends.
Current Smug rating: "lethal"
If MSU ends up with LT,
If MSU ends up with LT, Arnett, and Doran Grant (or even two of the three), I'll be less than thrilled. I can definitely see this dong-punchey scenario happening.
I don't think they will add
I don't think they will add either of the two
Current Smug rating: "lethal"
If Arnett is waiting until
If Arnett is waiting until after the season, I don't think another MSU losing season will push him to sign with the Spartans
I hope he doesn't go the MSU,
I hope he doesn't go the MSU, but the fact that MSU is bascially down the road from his home and everyone he knows might play a role in his decision.
I don't know what his family's influence is like, but hopefully his parents have reservations about putting their son's NFL potential in the hands of a coach who has had 16 of his players receive criminal convictions during the 3 short years he's been in East Lansing.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
MSU? No problem
Even if MSU gets three great recruits, they still don't have the resources or comittment to compete with Michigan's football team on a consistent basis. Their program could easily fall apart behind the scenes; it is no accident when fourteen players engage in a gang attack on "fellow" students.
In a way, Dantoio is starting to remind me of Steve Fisher without the National Championship. However, even Fisher at his most lassiez-faire or "head in the sand" would not have tolerated the perpetration of gang violence upon students.
Michigan will get enough recruits this year to keep the program going in the right direction. Meanwhile, I don't think three recruits will be enough to keep Sparty from going down the crapper. In other words: it's OK no matter who Sparty recruits this year.
I agree. Dantonio is a
I agree. Dantonio is a mediocre Big Ten coach at best who has really benefited from the perfect storm with respect to the UM-MSU rivalry, the perfect storm being a new head coach implementing a new system using a roster that was void of talent at key positions when Michigan took its first snap at the start of the '08 season.
The fact that the Spartan faithful have been unable to see past this is why he's being regarded as their savior (even after a 6-7 losing season) and also why he's got at least 3 more years in EL before he's run out of town like every other medicore coaching talent they've ever hired.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
Even if most of your points
Even if most of your points are legitimate (which I don't think they are), do you really care more about the success of some kid you've never met to the success of M as a team? Not that I wish failure on recruits that don't commit to us, but I certainly care about the quality of my team before I care about the ability of some kid to fulfill his potential.
If someone told me I had to choose between Arnett being a starter at M or a Belitnikoff finalist at ND (or anywhere else) I know what I'd choose.
Definitely not. The Michigan
Definitely not. The Michigan fan in me is bigger than the part of me that would enjoy seeing him in a pass-heavy offense. Obviously, some people didn't read my original post that way, but I expected that would be the case.
"WEEELLLL ________." -- Brady Hoke
We'll call this
the Dantonio Corollary to the Zook Hypothesis
Statistics from the past indicate WRs won't catch as many here
From what I've heard, Arnett's made it very clear it's all about how many balls he's going to get thrown his way, and also whether he's going to a winning program.
As for the first issue, here are some numbers (some from my 2008 Phil Steele) that might be influencing Arnett's thinking.
In 2007, RR's last season at WVU, Pat White and Jarrett Brown attempted 264 passes. Their WRs—not RBs, TEs, or slots—totaled 105 receptions. The leading receiver was Renaud, with 64 catches. The next leading receivers were Jalloh and Gonzalez with 24 and 10 catches, respectively.
In 2007, Carr's last season at UM, Chad Henne and Ryan Mallet attempted 419 passes, or 155 more than WVU that year. Michigan's WRs totaled 182 receptions. The leading receiver was Manningham with 72 catches, but Arrington was right behind at 67, with Matthews at 39.
In 2007, USC attempted 454 passes, with their WRs catching 140 balls.
In 2007, OK attempted 399 passes, with their WRs catching 161 balls.
In 2009, UM attempted 328 passes, with (as best as I can figure) our WRs catching 92 balls.
To be sure, these numbers don't speak to the nature of the routes that the WRs run at the respective schools, nor to the quality of the coaching that they receive. However, if history is any guide at all, it is virtually a certainty that Michigan under RR will throw the ball significantly fewer times than other offenses that are more passing oriented, and that wideouts at Michigan will see fewer balls come their way because of the number of passes thrown to slot receivers and running backs. You also have to consider the nature of the QB's role in the spread option: Pat White ran the ball 197 times in 2007. While it's certain that some of these were scrambles were when no receivers were open, it goes without saying that the QBs at OK or USC or TT are not going to be carrying the ball very often compared to what is going to be the case at UM. If Tate remains the starter, he would be doing spectacularly well to approach Shaun King's numbers from '98 when RR was the OC at Tulane. King attempted 364 passes but still ran the ball 156 times. If Denard grabs the starting job, it's entirely reasonable to think that he will end up throwing the ball fewer times than Tate would, given Robinson's skills at running with the ball in his hands.
If Arnett's criteria for deciding on a school is solely based on how many balls he's likely to see thrown his way, the numbers from past seasons under RR indicates that he will have more opportunities for receptions at some other schools. For Michigan to throw as many balls total, and as many to WRs, as other schools running more "traditional" passing offenses, it would mean a significant departure from RR's history. That doesn't mean it can't or won't happen, but it would be a noteworthy departure nevertheless.
I am NOT making a value judgement about whether a particular offensive scheme is better than the other. WVU's offense in 2007 with White and Slaton was one of the most exciting offenses I've seen in a long time, and I would be happy as hell if RR was able to develop something remotely as potent here. However, if Arnett is just looking at numbers of potential catches coming his way, it's not unreasonable for him to be interested in other schools.
And the people who are negging artds's last comments are being dicks. If you contest his facts, then bring some evidence refuting him. Make a fucking argument for chrissakes.
Chris Henry?
To briefly put out some facts, Chris Henry got 2nd team all conference as a freshman catching balls for 1000 yards and 24.5 yards per catch average and 10 touchdowns. Then the next year caught 12 on 52 balls in SEVEN GAMES. That ties him with reynaud for the school record in TD's and he's one of only a few with 1000 yards in a season. WVU is, by the way, the winningest program without a national title so it's interesting that a run guru who actually has a wide receiver to throw to could somehow get 7 balls per game to him at least, and set school receiving records. In the 100 years preceeding, nobody at the school has had as many receiving touchdowns as with RR. If DA comes here, his freshman season (and oh how RR likes using freshmen playmakers immediately (Noel/Slaton/Chris Henry with a redshirt) and to great effect, he'll have, at worst, denard throwing him passes. Oh Denard of the "Everyone cheats up to stop the run" idea. What would that mean for DA? It means he can be the Braylon to Denard's Henne except its the QB who is experienced and the WR who is the freshma now. Like Denard could just heave the damn thing and let DeAnthony come down with it if people really want to cheat that badly. And that's at worst. And if he's too good to block as well as get at least 7 receptions a game (Assuming he's as successful as the scouting services say he will be) then the NFL might pass on him the way he'd pass on us. Not sure if you remember but scouts last august went around and noticed that Michigan did more receiver blocking drills than OSU and PSU combined. If he wants to get to the league, why doesn't he go to a team that will actually develop him fully. Learn how to block and how to be the star against teams that will get up when they play him and get 7 balls a game starting his freshman season because maybe nobody has stepped up yet. It's a tremendous opportunity football and academic wise, and RR and Michigan's capabilities to get him the ball and to the NFL speak for themselves, you just have to listen to it, instead of buying in to the gross oversimplifications of this stuff that unfortunately seem to work on overwhelmed little kids. If he wants to play football like a wide receiver instead of a diva he can come to Michigan. If he wants to wait his turn and only have to run routes against cupcakes and then fizzle in the NFL he can go someplace where "dey dem dere throw da ball yeeehaw".
Also, why do people think slot receivers are not receivers? It's like a dirty word around here. It's like there is the mythical "Braylon" position and then a bunch of losers who haven't been touched by god but they can play I guess because we need 11 guys on the field anyway so why not them too, let the kids play. We'll call them WR but they aren't really, they're just like wes welker. Amazingly productive but we'll just pretend they don't exist because they aren't flashy douchebags or something. Ridiculous haha.
Braylon position
I'm guessing you're on the younger side of the spectrum to use the phrase, "Braylon position". What about "Anthony Carter" position?
Anthony Carter and
Anthony Carter and:
Derrick Alexander
David Terrell
Amani Toomer
Mario Manningham
...Yup...We had great ones before Braylon (who is indeed a great one as well). I hope we'll have many great ones in the future, but some kids will hesitate to join an offense that doesn't produce the prototypical NFL receiver. I don't know if that's a fair critique of the RR system or not, but he will have to fight that stereotype to bring in the big name WRs.
Oh and in case the other
Oh and in case the other novel of a post didn't make this clear, if you want to compare apples to apples you should compare when RR had a WR that even approaches Arnett's talent, and what he did with it. The efficacy of comparing the WR production on a team with mostly running playmakers to the WR production on teams with a lot of talent there... we can do better.
DeAnthony Arnett
I really hope our passing game impresses him this year. This guy is a flat out beast and I really hope we end up getting him in the end.
FUCK. SHIT. UP.
FUCK. SHIT. UP.
Sometimes I think it's a sin
When I feel like I'm winnin when I'm losin again
I'd like a 5 star WR.