...to check out the beach? (please?)
Tom VH: Shaun Crawford to visit Miami (YTM)
To check out the women
To check out the women on the beach.
I WISH that was the only reason, though.
What's so good about the Miami Hurricanes?
This season can't start soon enough. From what I've been reading on the Scout boards, negative recruiting has had an influence on Crawford.
Produce on the field this year and things will hopefully fall into place.
Well ND has at least played in a Natl Champ game recently and Miami resides in talent rich FL where they will always get top level talent.
UM already has top level talent. Miami and UM have very similar recruiting profiles for as long as I can recall the internet tracking recruiting classes. So, if we are going to argue that Miami always gets top level talent than you'd have to argue the same for UM. UM may not have the same talent in-state, but they still get it.
It's just a bit easier for Miami given the talent in their backyard. Just win baby and all will be well!
Not crap on message boards, but they are long on reductive thinking and speculation and short on actual facts.
That said, this is why I try not to care too much about recruiting, especially months before the season, because everything is so fluid.
for his camp to annouce he's open his recuritment back up. Good he's doing all of this now in May and not Dec,I suppose.
On the one hand, teams have to make early offers to stay competitive. On the other hand, I can totally understand a kid wanting to take advantage of the process and all of the visits. I just wish guys wouldn't commit until they really mean it. Any guy that commits really early now makes me skeptical. If he doesn't want to be here...best of luck. Time to recruit someone who does.
I get what you mean yet I just don't find it fair to hold anyone, much less a 16yo youth (whose life is blowing up in front of his very eyes), to stick with something if a better situation comes along.
Please don't take this as preachy (it's not meant that way), yet change happens everywhere. He committed 100% because he meant it at that time 100%. Now he's not feeling 100%. He has new information that is altering his evaluation process. If he sticks it out, we'll be glad to have him. He looks like a terror on the field. Yet if he goes somewhere else, he'll have done what is best for him.
The beat goes on.
Yep, sounds like negative recruiting might be working. This season we need results on the field. It's amazing how quickly momentum can swing back in your favor when you're winning.
To be fair, "7-6 with lots of uncertainty about the HC position if the team keeps trending down" doesn't strike me as particularly negative recruiting.
playing poorly especially in your bowl game against an un-ranked KSU! Hoke better turn it around, another 4 to 6 loss season will really put him on the hot seat for 2015 and the wheels will fall off of recruiting!
With a true freshmen at QB. But you just accidently fogot to include that fact right?
I guess we should never have agreed to play. I hope we're not going to become the "excuse" school.
Can't blame that on playing a true freshman QB. We would have a hard time winning even with a healthy DG.
It was two unranked schools playing each other. We lost. We played well the game prior against a highly ranked osu, with a healthy-ish DG.
We'll be fine. We have great talent on board already and as many have said, we'll be set up for excellence in 2015 for sure (with noticeable improvement in 2014). Until then, we just need to ride this wave.
Let him go if he wants to
I'm pretty sure no one can legally stop him if he wants to go.
That he didn't bother to let the coaching staff know then good riddance. I can appreciate his desire to look around, but giving your word(committing), then not even having the decency to communicate your interest to visit elsewhere is childish.
TomVh had reported earlier that on Wednesday Crawford informed Mattison that he was going to take some visits so he has discussed this with someone at Michigan.
That changes everything in my mind. Hope he decides to stay in the fold.
with Hoke the next day.
Crawford's dad says he is talking to Hoke tonight about the visits, but they are just to reassure Crawford of his decision.
— Tom VanHaaren (@TomVH) May 15, 2014
That's a cop out excuse. I'm going to go sleep with other women to reassure my decision to marry my wife. Doesn't work that way.
//please please please
That's a way of being honest, but in realty it's often a half truth. The real truth is he's questioning his commitment. This is the first step to an eventually decomittment IMHO. First, soften the blow, then check out other schools, eventually decommit, and comitt somewhere else. Isn't that how it usually goes?
honest or humble?
that is all
I help you out with that?
Thing is, crawford isn't married in this metaphor, he's a 16 year old with a fiance that he realizes he may have been too hasty to pick. There are other attractive options out there too.
In addition, if we are using the relationship metaphor, wouldn't it be more like Crawford marrying into a polygamy? So in that regard, I can't imagine the main spouse (Michigan) really having a strong moral argument against the other spouses (recruits) for looking for the best harem to choose from.
Disclaimer: I did about 5 minutes of wiki research on polygamy, so I don't know what i'm talking about.
a few years with a couple more additions, if I were a recruit, I'd look at Michigan as a great place to play. Michigan should have a dominant defense soon. They are basically a dominant pass rusher away.
He may leave and not come back. He's a young kid but I think there is a good chance he will be back just as Damien Harris may recommit. This is going to be more and more common with the push to get to these kids sooner and sooner. Michigan isn't alone. Even Alabama has had flips.
I mean it's almost like he's we're dealing with immature high school kids.
This is super awesome.
He don't know where the hell he wanna go (bad grammar on purpose).
to be racist?
2011 was such a tease.
August 30th can't come soon enough.
It will be interesting to see what our comments are Oct 15th however...
"Basketball can't get here fast enough...." or "OMG now that looks like a Michigan football team."
The reality is that they are going to continue to go through this process until the o-line finally matures and develops so they can have a balanced offense and can win on the road. IMHO the team will improve this year, but they won't win 10 games. They will still struggle at times. The only question is will they show enough promise and win enough games to recoup the recruiting momentum. I don't think they need to win a ton of games personally. But, I also don't think they can have a season like last year where it seems there is negativity after every game. If they play the rivals close and win one or two and look good in the games they should win they should be fine. Eventually the o-line will fix itself. The talent is there. I just don't see it happening next year. What else can you say? No one wants to hear it but it just takes time.
If there is a continous improvement throughout the year on offense with showing sings of continuity and execution, I think that things will go well. The defense is going to need to really show up this season and show signs of the talent that is available, and in reality the offense should only need to show competence in the early part of the year (ie, basically look like MSU after the first 3-4 games, and show some developing confidence and ability) which should get them into striking distance for 9 wins and maybe more if they can grow or get a few good bounces.
I think that if the move is to combine offensive challenges with bend n dont break defense again this year, there are going to be the same level of challenges both on the field and in the locker room again. I am not sure enough can be said for many of the challenges in chemistry last year as well. When the comments around two of your senior leaders going into the year (an OT and QB for clarity) is that they finally seem to be serious about leadership, that does not bode very well for at least half the team which tends to bleed into the rest of the mental make up of the unit.
The losses in the recruiting classes from 2010-2011 especially were not only missing bodies, but missing candidates for leadership. If the oline suffers from strength/etc due to age, but builds some chemistry, they should still be an average/middle of the pack group if the scouting/rankings hold any weight at all.
And win one big game on the road against MSU or OSU. There comes a point where you run out of excuses for losing 4 or more games. Hell, even if they lose to ND, MSU and OSU these games have to be more competitive. I know this will be a tough year but we must see improvement through the season. If we play lousy all through the year and lose 4 or 5 games then it's time for Hoke to get replaced. Brandon better not pick any more of his friends, just back up the money truck and get the best coach out there!
Yeah, I agree about being competitive against our rivals, but not that they have to beat them. I think it's more about feeling than results. If they show signs of improvement, the kids are having fun, the offensive line and running game is developing, and the defense is becoming more aggressive and they win 8 games but still lose to all the rivals I think that's OK. The problem last year was that they seemed to have no idea of how to fix the problem and lacked an identity. The problems got worse and worse all year. I really don't think there needs to be results next year, but progress, an identity, and the kids having fun DOES need to happen. That will get the ball rolling and get everyone excited for what could happen in 2015.
you posted, but have to disagree about losing to all three rivals being OK. I don't think 9-3 with losses to ND, State, and OSU will be enough. One of them has to get knocked off and it would be best if it were at least either State or OSU (preferably BOTH).
Continuing to lose those rivaly games will have a greater net negative effect on future recruiting than any positive momentum gained from winning the other 9 games.
Overall, the greatest barometer of progress will be if we see markedly improved play (even if we lose a few), but the bleeding vs. State and OSU needs to be halted.
I am not one that is eager to call for Hoke to get fired over just an unsatisfactory W-L record. But I do realize, on the other hand, that continued unrest among the fandom isn't good for the image of the program, which in turn hurts the ability to recruit.
I hear ya, I want the same, but you have to be realistic. The offensive line is young and is going to continue to be young. There's nothing you can do to make the offensive line all 4th and 5th year guys. Instead they're all 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year guys, and one 4th year guy. It just takes time. Granted, Borges' system did not help, but hopefully Nuss' will. But, time should fix it...I'm not sure much else will.
I think it's very unrealistic to ask a team built like that to beat a top 10 team in OSU or MSU on the road (ND seems more beatable IMO). OSU is going to have an incredible d-line and seems the least beatable right now to me. Unless the defense can shut down the other team it's gonna be a difficult task. If they show improvement and cohesion however, there's no reason to think they can't beat those teams at home in 2015.
What you're saying makes sense if you believe the o-line problems last year were due primarily to youth/underdevelopment. I wouldn't say that didn't play any role, but comparing the ND, CMU, and OSU games to the middle of the season had me scratching my head a bit. Looking back after learning of AB's over-scheming, combined with frequent, questionable play-calling, I saw an o-line (entire offense even) that struggled with that, started to lose confidence, and that vicious cycle just snowballed. Speculation aside as to what transpired to produce the offensive performance in The Game, that did have us all shaking our heads as to what the season could have been.
I don't think we have to write-off the first half of the 2014 season as some necessary development process for the o-line, because I don't think that is the problem. I am a big fan of the Nuss hire, and I think, among other things, that the relative simplicity of his offense is a big difference maker. There's talent on this team. It's a new system, so I'm not expecting them to hit the ground in full stride, but I think they may be able to keep it to a slight stumble, with no fall, and they could even pull it together by the ND game. Regardless of the start, we should see steady improvement through the season - you know, what you would normally expect.
On another note, I think Peppers will have a (potentially huge) positive effect on this team - beyond the anticipated impact of his play. He seems a natural, charismatic leader. He brings a serious work ethic (contagious), and reputedly will call out those who don't. He backs it up on the field. Hoke talks alot about accountability, and here's a kid who embodies it. A guy like that can raise everybody's level of play. It's as much a mental game as physical.
The last paragraph cannot be over stated. JP is a badly needed playmaker for the D and special teams - if the other team gives him an opportunity it will cost them points. More importantly, JP will bring a competitive swagger to this squad and he'll get a lot of other guys to display their swagger.
The bowl game exposed the team's fragile mental state. They had no fire. They need JP or someone to act as the emotional leader.
While I agree with what you're saying about Peppers ability, charisma, and leadership it's really difficult for true freshman to be leaders. The hardest part about a true freshman being a leader is they must have the support of the upperclassman. That is hard to do because it typically takes true freshman to make an impact on the field in order to gain the respect of the upperclassman. That's part of the difficulty with last year's team IMO is because there were so many young guys and there seemed to be a disconnect between the upperclassman and the younger guys. Although the younger guys may have been more talented they may not have proven themselves yet. This year older guys like Ryan, Morgan, Clark, and Countess who have been grinding it out for years may not take kindly to a true freshman coming in and telling them how it should be done, especially at a place like UM where tradition and seniority is valued. So, although I think Peppers will make an impact it's hard to really lead and call out others, especially upperclassman, until he's proven himself as an impact player on the field. Unless he makes an immediate impact with big plays that will be hard to do, at least in the beginning of the year. I think he has to impact the team with his attitude and play and grow into a leadership in the following years, but that's just me.
makes huge statement when you not only show up to workouts every day and sweat to get better and learn um system/culture but also aim to not allow a single pass to be completed against you. everyone can lead and take ownership in their own way, and obviously some more than others. challenging WRs to mortal combat every day in practice goes a long way. i just really hope they can look competent enough on O and allow peppers to showcase his natural abilities from day 1 - prospects watching the #1 recruit make significant impact early and announcers chirping peppers name really can help image. but 27 for 27 negates any positives and simply cannot happen again
This is why we need a strong performance this year
I remember when only good things were supposed to happen in 2014.
I'm a total dick.
Unfollowed Crawf earlier. Way ahead of you guys.
That'll show him!!!
Way to go!
You probably deserve medals for your courage and devotion!
I still DM all of our recruits and players on the team everyday!! Buncha fairweather stalkers
There's only 24 hours in a day. What do you want from me?!
We have a ton of DB talent already... If he thinks Miami is a better situation for him than Michigan, good luck to the kid. To me though, playing in front of 110k+ fans sounds better than playing in front of 400.
The way some people act on here seems like we might not reach 100k fans at the game all year...there has been at least 5 ticket threads with complaints and people claiming they aren't buying tickets
but how many gorgeous latinas do they have? if college is for school and partying for most people, and football players are there to only play football and the party, football and partying with all the beautiful women in Miami getting booster money sounds like a pretty good deal to me
Also, playing in front of 100,000 people who are mostly old white people who don't cheer, and who are now starting to boo, isn't very fun either.
Why does it matter if they are white? Are old black or hispanic people somehow different?
Is a racist!!
Have you watched a Miami game in the last 5 years. The stadium is half empty.
that is why my interest in recruiting has diminished tremendously. wake me up on signing day. i will be happy with the kids who choose to be here. GOBLUE
I honestly think this will happen with recruiting across the board. Recruiting wasn't a business before, it just served a purpose (to recruit guys to schools) and no one really knew any of these guys - unless one was from your hometown or a few of the big-time names - until signing day when there was some sort of release, but even then you didn't know much. This led to far less monkey business with recruits because no one knew about it.
Then the pendulum swung the other way and recruiting became huge. For many recruits, they were a bigger deal to fans as recruits than they ever would be as players. Guys did their announcements at press conferences or on TV, they push for fans to follow them on twitter, and plenty of other stuff. Now, though, fans are tiring of the monkey business, so I think the recruiting bubble will burst soon. It won't go back to the way it was, but it will go down to 70% or so of what it is now. Because lots of people have the opinion you have.
Great insight and I actually agree to an extent. My interest has waned bc our team has sucked. I know osu and Bama and ucla and fans and they are loving following recruiting right now bc their teams are on the upswing.
Disagree with LA on recruiting bubbles bursting. It will continue on - the reason people here are down is because of the program and the decommits and misses. Just a few years ago we were lauding the 2012 class with glee as we were coming off a good record in 2011 and the future looked so bright. If our program was competing for Big 10 titles and hell NCs we'd be so into recruiting we'd be a main cause of said bubble. But because it has been like Groundhog Day around here for 7 years - whatever the coaches, whatever the recruits, whatever the players ...always similar mediocre results (save for 2011), the bubble is bursting here. On OSU and MSU boards the bubble is full tilt and while I dont go to any PSU boards I am sure they are in full NASDAQ 1999 over there.
If you have a great program you are very interested in this stuff - if your program is mediocre the hardcore guys stay interested, the rest of the people will lose some interest. It's the 5 stages of grief and as I wrote last fall sometime in that putrid late October/mid November stage.... a lot of people have finally moved on from anger and bargaining to acceptance. Being hardcore about recruiting is when you are still in the denial and anger phases. Or just wear maize glasses.
Bottom line - if the team was elite the focus on recruiting here would be higher than ever.
This is going to be the story until we win on the field... Hate to say it.
Crawford is my favorite player in the class, but I can't bring myself to care. It's not surprising anymore.
is not really a story. one kid. I know he's awesome and all.. but ... one recruit. give me kids who want to play here and passion and chemistry.
Give me the Crawford's and Peppers' and you take your team of passion.
You need both. Army and Navy play their hearts out and have more chemistry than anyone in the country...they're usually not very good.
I hear you..and I knew this response would come. Clearly, we need talent. I would argue that without Crawford, we will still have talent substantially better than Army or Navy. I don't mean to belittle the importance of great talent, but overall, really good talent, well coached with team chemistry, can do great things. The debate everyone is having about the ability of this staff to coach up the players is tired to me. I don't care about the debate--although I do personally have the same questions. I just want to see what happens this year...I don't enjoy random (even if many are educated and entertaining on the blog) people selling their opinions on why we are gonna suck next year.
I realize this is what happens on sports blogs, so don't jump on me for that. I just am not super worked up about a kid having second thoughts, or negative recruiting. If a kid has doubts, he should look around and the coaches should be finding puzzle pieces that fit.
i don't know if this happens but why don't coaches ask a recruit what offers they are coveting. it seems like once he got his ND offer he wanted to start visiting other places. Is Michigan becoming a place holder school? I hope not and it should be
meant to say shouldnt be......can't edit on the app
Go to Miami for a free trip, get dined around, see some strippers, etc. in all likelihood, most of these kids aren't gonna be superstars, so let yourself get treated like one while you can. As a fan, I can't say I am happy about it, as a human seeing these kids works their asses off over the next 5 years so they can go to school and a bunch of suits can make bank, I gotta say go get yours, son.
This doesn't mean anything. He's a top recruit who wants to explore his options. Let him do so. If he wants to be here, awesome. If not, best of luck elsewhere.
But if we want to better lock kids up, we need to see results on the field, and that starts on August 30th. If we have more 7-6 and 8-5 seasons, expect to see a lot more of this. That "we have a ton of tradition" schpeel doesn't really work like the "we've won championships in the past decade" schpeel works.
I love lamp
I take kids that de-commit off my twitter feed. It makes the sting go away faster..
Sally. We got a bitchy fan base...
I am choosing to stay optimistic. Just because he's looking around doesn't mean he won't see what's out there and decide he made the right decision already. I wish he didn't even want to look around, of course, but I hope he enjoys the process and decides Ann Arbor is the place for him. I'd rather he know for sure than always have a doubt or wonder what if.
I'm sure I saw someone (TomVH, Sam Webb or someone else) tweet that he first said he was going to visit Ohio. I believe Miami will be the third school he mentioned he was visiting.
In its simplest terms, it seems like although the policy is that if a recruit does something like this then they will start recruiting that spot on the list, that spot in this case is still Crawford's if he is indeed coming here. For the time being, it seems safe to say that he is likely coming to Ann Arbor despite this recent development, but there is time yet of course.
Kid seems like he'll be a good player at the next level. Good luck to wherever he lands, including the possibility of Michigan.
Michigan doesn't have the fresh, new promise it did a few years back. They'll still recruit well but definitely need a return to elite on-field performance to firmly hold on to elite prospects. And even then, they'll have issues. It's just the nature of recruiting teenagers.
One thing I still believe is that Hoke is a great coach and will turn things around. Bo had tough years. Lloyd had down years. They were given time and are legends. I think with a little patience Hoke will earn his keep.
That was '84 because of injuries. Bo came in and won the Big 10 and went to a Rose Bowl in his first season and had excellent teams top 10 teams through the 70s! Carr had his two 4 loss seasons before he went undefeated. Under Hoke we have went 11-2 in 2011, 7-5 in 2012 and 8-6 in 2013. Not a very good trend! I'm concerned. I could see us going 8-6 once again. I hope not!
You are right. Bo may have had some tough bowl game losses---but only one such season. Carr had great years in 1997 and 2006---the rest of the time kinda Lloyd-Carr-like--underwhelming, but no real down year.
It's going to be unfun till then
Reality is, win often or be forgotten. It's an instant gratification society for many young people. Unless we start piling up the hardware, I think we can expect to see this type of thing continue to happen in recruiting. My fingers are crossed for 9 or 10 wins this year.
And Miami is any better in that regard?
He's going to Miami to see the city. He will be a Buckeye soon if I had to guess.
I have a hard time calling it negative if it's true. These coaches have been atrocious at developing talent. Even if you want to believe that it takes 2-3 years to get top talent to play at a serviceable level, this is not the case at many peer programs and no 4-5 star wants to believe that it's going to take him that long to be decent.
Only Oline and QB haven't had decent development.
We haven't gotten an consistent pressure since Martin and Van Bergen.
The dline has had depth and youth issues like the Oline but less noticeable.
This season should tell us everything we need to know in terms of development. The interior dline will be inexperienced, but we'll have a rotation. The ends should be much more reliable this year.
I'm watching the IU vs U-M game right now and I'd argue the RB's, TE's, OL, DL, LB's and Safeties haven't exactly been great. Player development has been awful for a decade now. This isn't just an isolated "QB's and OL" problem.
Without a line. The only true TE in the roster last year was Butt, a true freshman. And I think a lot of linebackers struggled against IU's spread
Don't forget CBs. There were some abominations there last year. Countess and Taylor have arguably gotten worse.
There goes the season.
He should stay committed... With the db's and safeties coming in were headed towards total backfield domination! Though he was a big part of that excitement! Let him look...
DG will be early season Heisman candidate.
We're going to finish 11-1...
Then they will come!
Stay the course! Go Blue!
I have no problem with guys taking their time and making sure of where they want to go. Just like Hand took his time. However I don't understand the rush to commit if you’re not sure. I would hope someone in a recruit's camp would tell them to commit when they're sure. If all these schools want you they are willing to wait at least until the end of summer before your senior year.
You must laugh all the time.
Do you know who is from Idaho?
Ha. Have you ever driven a turbo Saab?
I do wish people around here stopped looking for excuse or proof of "negative recruiting" as the reason behind kids not being 100% for Michigan. For one, lots of kids waver in their recruiting because we are talking about 16- and 17-year-old young men, and kids at that age are prone to making inconsistent decisions all the time. It's part of growing up, and just because a bunch of people on message boards get bent out of shape because of it doesn't mean you shouldn't expect it to happen.
Secondly, you don't need to dig too deep to find "negative recruiting" facts. 7-6 following 8-5, losing 5-6 to MSU and, what is it, 2 wins in the past 13 against OSU. Played in one BCS bowl game in recent memory, and that was kind of an abberation against an unglamorous team. Real questions about the HC sticking around after he fired his OC. 27 yards on 27 carries. Negative rushing yards against a couple of teams. Horrendous running game in general. Struggles defensively. The list goes on. It seems like there are lots of people on this board in their late 20's through early 40's. We remember UM being a national contender and fielding great teams. But LOTS of that is based on success from the 80s through early 00's; most of the kids now looking at schools were, at best, in grade school when that happened. I don't blame them for not caring about UM's history when what they see is a middling outfit trying to reclaim lost glory.
Recruiting is going reasonably well and I think people are overreacting because a kid is looking around, but kids will start treating UM like a big deal when they start proving it on the field.
I'm more worried about the guys we have on the team...if they start playing well, there will be other Crawford's. Recruiting isn't as fun to follow when you suck.
I'm tired of looking towards the future. We need results now.
Even with that said, I understand that this should be a growing year, but that's what I want to see...growth. I don't want to see us play our best in the 2nd game of the year against Notre Dame. I want to see improvement each week and by this time next season I want to be foaming at the mouth with anticipation of how we're about to WRECK 2015 with a schedule that sets up in our favorite and a bunch of juniors and seniors (finally).
For the next 2 years, I really don't care about recruiting, I want to see growth each week this year, and I want to see CFB Playoffs in 2015. Once we get that, I'll start thinking about the future again.
I hope we play the best against Norte dame.
But your point is very true. This team needs to progress. If we have another repeat of last year then I am truly worried about this program.
It seems like everyone here thinks Michigan is going to win the B1G and get into the playoff in 2015. I have my doubts, in 2015 we will have a new starting QB. I'm sure the rest of the team will be improving and we will have a favorable schedule. But, I still expect a lot of close games in 2015 and one wrong bounce of the ball could lead to a costly loss that may even prevent us from winning the eastern division! I would be happy with 10 wins and one of the older BCS bowls. It just seems like every year we push back when we are finally going to be really good. If you were to go back on this board to early 2012, many said we would win a national championship in 2014. But now that we're in 2014 we may be lucky to win 8 games, may be your national championship will come in 2017 or 2020?
Yes a new QB but no scary non conf team (@Utah is our toughest game!) and 10 of 11 starters is nearly unheard of (assuming Funchess comes back) on offense. And a defense that should have upperclassmen almost everyhwere. You get the 2 best teams in the East at home - if not 2015 then when? If not 2015 what do you sell recruits? Look we have had this staff for 5 years, and with Hoke's upperclassmen, and a schedule loaded for bear we pulled another good ole 9-4 season we have been famous for the past 15 years? While our rivals are putting up 11 win seasons regularly?
Yes a bouncing ball can mean a loss here or there but the 2015 squad needs to be excellent and that OSU UM game needs to be for the East title. If you frigging cannot beat MSU at home with all your upperclassmen in year 5 of a regime, we might as well start over.... it would be the 7th loss in 8 years to them! (assuming a loss this year). Hence the OSU UM game should be for the right to go to the BTT.
@PSU, OSU, and MSU should be the only 3 "losable" games that year in terms of talent (not accounting for a "weird game"... with the type of talent UM recruits and 5 years in the system.
After 2015 you add Wisconsin back to the schedule, you go back on the road to OSU and MSU, etc ... 2015 is the year everything sets up. Shane will be a 3rd year player in 2015 - not a newb. RS freshman QBs are leading their teams to conf championships and NCs. There is no youth excuse, and no we don't have talent excuses after this year. 2017 you have the rivals again at home but add Florida and Wisconsin to the schedule. If they can't do it in 2015 eff it.
He'll be a junior and first time* starter.
A big difference between that and a true freshman or even a RS Freshman QB.
He'll be surrounded by a veteran offensive line or young talent mixed in with a veteran line. Green/Smith, Funchess/Darboh/Chesson/Canteen and all the other WRs.
The defense will be full of vets and will have guys like Peppers taking over for Taylor.
No excuses** in 2015.
*Obviously he started the BWW Bowl
**Obviously we have to stay healthy
Those who stay...
The same people bitching about it now are all "Michigan man this, Team 13(whatever) that, Those Who Stay...This Is Michigan, History...Championships...Legacy...Woodson...Heisman...The Pose" when we're winning.
Now we act like that has some negative impact on the success (or lack thereof) we we have on the field.
How about we just get good...who cares if people want to talk about history or say the famous sayings?
Are they mutally exlusive? You can't always honor, be proud and cherish the past without wanting like hell for us to be worth a shit on the field?
Just because it comes off as soft and arrogant and nose in the air "hmmm, I don't care about 7-5, THIS IS MICHIGAN and THOSE WHO STAY....I said, THOSE WHO STAY!!!"
Just because it comes off like that doesn't mean it is. Doesn't mean those same people don't want Michigan to be winning just as much as you and I do.
I wish people would stop bitching about this kind of stuff, like it's ever going to stop or like it should stop.
History and tradition are part of Michigan whether any one single person likes it or not. Just because it's honored doesn't mean the future is neglected.
Let's quit acting like every time Hoke says "This is Michigan" he's not focused on this team and he's somewhere in Schemblecher Hall polishing off some olf team photo from the glory days for his office.
Straw man much? Nobody said there was cuasation or correlation between those sayings and performance. They are just tired of living in a present that is antipodal to the past captured in those sayings. They want those sayings to reflect the present as well. Perhaps you are the one who should stop bitching about your own fantastical correlation, which nobody is making.
It's part of Michigan football and will never go away. I am more tired of the people who act like the sky is falling every time something doesn't go our way.
Guess what? We aren't going to get every recruit we go after, no one does. I like Hoke and the direction he has the program going. Was last season shitty? Yes. Did Hoke make changes? Yes. Will we go undefeated next season? No. Will next season be better than last? Yes. Is Michigan still recruiting at a high level? Yes.
It sucks to see so many fans with their glasses of water half empty.
Him then he should go elsewhere. Really. Obviously he doesn't get it and is not a fit for Michigan. I am sick of kids committing or saying Michigan is the leader and going elsewhere. Have some character and make sure your words actually mean something. Next DB up please.
Remember that these kids are 16 and 17 years old when they are making these decisions. At this age, a "commitment" is any decision that lasts up to a week.
As the parent of two teenagers - and in particular - a daughter who is exactly Shawn Crawford's age and year in high school, I can understand how his choice of schools has waxed and waned. My daughter has been going through the same thing. When just over a year ago, she was convinced that U-M was in her future, now it's just one of four strong possibilities.
Huge year for recruiting, because it's a huge year for the staff. Just enormous. We have a lot of DB talent though, and it's young. On defense we have the same at DT and LB. What's needed at this point is a safety and rush DE. On offense we need a tackle this cycle, a top RB, and a WR.
But roster-wise, this team is set for a couple of years. Hoke and his staff have done a great job in that regard. After last year, the Development and Strategy questions are still open. Obviously offense brings in Nuss - he must out-smart opponents on gameday and have a better plan. Lordy I hope we have sideline checks (AL had them) and an audible other than "iso right". Defensively, Mattison needs to do the same. He had some questionable games. And Hoke... at some point he needs to be doing a little more in-game than ushering people on and off the field, and yelling at them to get back on the sideline. He delegates, which is fine, and a unique and maybe bold/gutsy strategy. But last year that delegation failed, and he should have been stepping in and making changes with in-game strategy. This year he absolutely must get this right.
You said "huge year for recruiting" and then started talking about things completely different.
#1 - Every year is huge, but this year...not really, it's not going to be a big class and this year likely won't have more than 2-3 guys that have to be contributors next year on anything other than special teams. You may get more than do, but they don't have to.
To be honest. We could take ZERO guys in this class, and if every other school in the country had to do the same, I'd like our roster better than most. We really don't have any holes to fill for next year. We already have guys who will be redshirting or going into their RS So. year that can fill those spots.
#2 - You said "it's a huge year for the staff." That right there dismantled your own argument. If it's a huge year for the staff...they better not be relying on true freshman from this class of 16-18 guys to help them (the staff) out. The "we're young/inexperienced" excuse flies out the window once we get halfway through 2014, it's definitely gone in 2015.
Why the hell would this years recruiting class matter to the staff more than any other year? I hope they're not relying on this class, because fans aren't going to wait until this class because RS So and Juniors before they start judging whats on the field.
If you're relying on guys from this class to be starters next year...you may as well put in your resignation papers today. And why have you overlooked Wilson, Thomas, Clark and Hill at S? Why have you overlooked Ojemudia and Marshall at rush DE? You expect a freshman OT to come in and play an "enormous" rule for this staff? Good luck with that. Green/Smith have played ONE season, what about them? And you have a log jam of young WRs for 2015...is one more really going to make that big of an impact? How do you already know you don't have a good one...we haven't seen 75-80% of the guys we have now.
#3 - You say this year is enormous and then say we're set for a couple of years. Sorry my man...but Hoke doesn't have more than 2 years to get this thing together. For some people he only has one, but I think that's unrealistic, But if we're still 7-5, 8-4 after next year...Hoke's gone and not one person is going to be shocked or surprised.
The rest of what you said had nothing to do about recruiting this year...I'd comment on it, but it would just be another tangent.
Your reply makes me believe you have not slept in several days. But in the spirit of common ground, I agree with your last sentiment that further debate would not be useful.
So.....on to the next one, eh? Wonder if this'll have an impact on Kinnel.
Analyze and give our opinions on recruiting. But at the end of the day, it's plain and simple. We have to win.
At we're at a point now, IMO, where I truly don't give a shit about recruiting. That's just me. Because, like I said, I feel we have enough to win with. Improvement this year and dominate next. I think we can do that without one more recruit (obviously we'll need special teams depth).
Certainly you don't want to have a big year in 2015 and then suck again because you neglected this year. So I know you can't just throw it away.
But truthfully, me personally, as a fan. I just don't care. I want to see us get good, I'm tired of looking toward the future at who can come in and save us. Hoke doesn't have that long to rely on anyone from this class anyway.
I want to see it on the field. Let's get good and then I'll follow recruiting again to see how we can fill holes in order to stay good.
My last comment is, right now we (the fans) don't even know what holes we have to fill. 75-80% of this team is playing significant snaps for the first time in their career. It'll be fun to watch, but we have no idea who's going to be good and who isn't.
For example, someone above said we need a RB and WR, if Green looks like Wheatley this year and Darboh and Chesson look like Braylon and Breaston...well, we don't really have THAT big of a need anymore. If Cole looks like Jake Long or Dymonte Thomas becomes Marcus Ray, we're okay at those positions. Is any of that likely? No, but we weren't assuming those guys would become legends either...and they did. So let's see who steps up. If just about everyone is playing big time minutes for the first time, I'm willing to bet we find some stars on this team.
Hoke is entering the 4th year of a 5 year contract and with our record over the past two years is definitely under the gun, both on this board and in the general public, to produce NOW. This fact is not lost on every other coach in the country and if anyone doesnt think they are wispering (sometimes yelling) in the recruits ear "nice choice on Michigan - who do you imagine your coach will be?" on every visit we're nuts.
I'm of the opinion that Brandon ought to give Hoke an extension - even if it means we might need to eat a couple of years of it if he has another shitty year- because a lame duck college coach is dead man walking on the recruiting trail. At least with the extension Hoke could recruit without the stigma of "will he be here" following him. My concern is by not giving him that security we are taking away the one thing Hoke has proven he CAN do at a high level - recruit - to save a few bucks if he ends up getting fired.
If we absolutely suck. He's fired.
If we're 7-5 again, Brandon's got a tough decision.
If he shows progress like I think and hope he does...I think he gets a small extension. Development is also key to this scenario.
If we play out of our minds...he obviously gets a big extension.
One thing I think a lot of people (not saying you) forget is...Dave Brandon knows football. So if he sees a team that is getting better every week and players that are developing, he'll give Hoke another year. I'm not going to put a record on it, but let's say we have a decent year, get better, but we beat OSU pretty good and then DESTROY some SEC team in the Outback Bowl.
That is showing progress. That creates excitement for the offseason. That tells Brandon and fans "okay, we've arrived...time to knock down the door."
That excitement is worth a year or two on the contract.
...people talk about was Rich Rod a lameduck coach in the Gator Bowl. I've said this time and time again. I know for a FACT. I mean speaking with folks directly tied to the situation that he wasn't. Rich Rod had the weeks of bowl practice and that game to show promise, exactly what I'm talking about with Hoke. If Rich Rod went out and tore up Miss. St. ---- he would've kept his job at least for another year. That is fact. He got fired in the 2nd quarter of that game (or whenever they started to walk us behind the woodshed for our whooping).
If he wins that game and Denard goes crazy, there's so much excitement about the next year that I don't even know if Brandon could've fired him if he wanted. It wouldn't have been as popular, I can tell you that.
Anyway...yes, it's about THIS year. But I think that if we're all being realistic, we shouldn't be expecting National Championship this year. The schedule sucks, the team is inexperienced, etc. This year is about weekly growth and development. Get some big wins and be playing your best football at the end of the year. Next year, 2015 - no excused. CFB Playoff or bust.
After all that, I can sum up expectations for this year in ONE sentence and a score: THIS TEAM IN DECEMBER SHOULD BE ABLE TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF THIS TEAM IN SEPTEMBER - something like 38-17.
I think you're right (and interesting insight on RR). Here's how I'd say the record translate to "future Hoke"
10-2 or better = 5 year extension
9-3 with a win over MSU or OSU = 3 year extension
9-3 with no wins over MSU or OSU = 2 year extension
8-4 = no extension
7-5 = 50-50 on staying but probably fired unless tremendous progress made throughout year and at least one win over MSU or OSU
6-6 or worse = fired
Not going to put numbers on it, because someone will be so quick to say "BUT WHAT IF....!!!!"
So that's why I like to say just get better every week. Lloyd Carr was a dry SOB, but he used to say all the time "we have to get better every week, if you're not getting better, you're getting worse." He was Ricky Bobby before Ricky Bobby.
But he was also correct.
If we play the way we did vs. ND and their NFL DL, we need to continue improving. We didn't until the OSU game.
Steady progress and we need to be playing our last 2-3 games on an elite level almost as if to say "next year, this shit is ours, because we're back!" The hype train should be running full steam next offseason with people talking about how we beat OSU and destroyed an SEC team. We should be "the sexy pick."
As for contracts, 6-6, I think he's got to get at least a 1 year extension if he comes back so coaches can't recruit against him in his last year of his contract. If it's just 1 year, he'll also need a vote of confidence, which I'm sure Brandon will give because he likes hearing himself talk (like me).
(And as for Rich Rod...100%. I was literally there as it unfolded. It was surreal. Everyone in the suite/club floor knew he had a shot, and we scored early and there was some excitement...everyone was all "this is what we've been waiting for!" And then "it" happened and 2 hours later we all walked out and it was dead silent. It was like we all just witnessed Rich Rod get fired on the spot. There wasn't even normal bowl game loss chatter about what people were going to do that night or meet up. It was SILENT. Everyone knew we just watched a man lose his job over one game.
I always wondered what would've happened if we won that game by a FG or something. I think he still would've been gone. I think Denard and co. needed to win by 2 TDs and just control the entire game for Brandon to say "okay, you get your year to show us."
In a lot of ways, that year is Hoke this year. Except because Hoke is in year 4, I don't think it comes down to just a Bowl game. I think he's going to have to show significant promise the last 1/4 of the season. By the time the bowl game is over, there can't be any doubt that we're a favorite to get to the B1G Championship game next year.
It'll also depend on the coaches that are "on the market."
Anyway...lets just win! screw looking for a different Coach. Too many people would've fired Beilein after he went 17-15 in year 3. Now they love him. Same will happen to Hoke if he wins because he loves Michigan the way Beilein does. He's got his foundation --- go win.
This is more or less the matrix of scenarios I'm seeing as well, with the same outcomes.
It enables Hoke to say for the next year that he isn't going anywhere, which will help recruiting in the short- and mid-term run.
Da'Shawn Hand, Damien Harris, George Campbell, Shawn Crawford. That's a huge cost already paid. People keep saying "next season is huge!" Well, last season was huge, and we shit the bed. All momentum is gone, and we lost pieces that could've been program-changing. Serious damage has already been done. A good-to-great season this year will get us back to spring 2011 in terms of program appeal. It's a long road to get us back to spring 2012 appeal.
3 out of the 4 players you mentioned would be TRUE freshman next year.
You just made an argument against looking towards the future...by looking towards the future.
We shouldn't have to rely on ANY of those guyse for success next year. If we are, then we're doomed and we're sitting around waiting until they're juniors before we're expecting anything of Michigan again....because the "too young" excuse is still valid if you're relying on those 4 guys and their classes to support Michigan this year and next year.
We've recruited just fine up until this point. Hoke hasn't had ONE bad year recruiting. He's had an average year, a good year and an exceptional year. That's not too bad.
Nonetheless, we can't be relying on Hand, Harris, Campbell and Crawford.
And I love how you write off and highly touted QB, RBs, WRs, OL, DL, LB, and DBs that we do have. Morris, Green, Darboh, Cole, Kalis, Magnuson, Mone, Pipkins, Charlton, Marshall, Gedeon, Ross, Bolden, Peppers, Lewis and Thomas must ALL suck! We've seen into the future and those guys are just no good that we needed these 4 names to rescue us.
Come on, we're not FUBAR. Carr left Rich Rod with shit and Rich Rod left Hoke with shit. That is fact. This is basically year 1 since Carr left. This year the first year since Carr where a coach has HIS team and the foundation HE wants. They're inexperienced, but they'll get that this season. Next year let's see what we have, we should be great. Go be elite (Natinonal Championship game elite) and no one will be worrying about missing out on the 4 names you mentioned.
FSU and Auburn missed out on plenty of big names as well over the years. They did just fine and now they're both seeing the benefits of the Championship game, they'll continue to be fine.
that program momentum is critical.
Miami's record over the last three years: 22-15; our record over the last three years: 26-13
The problem is that we've gone 11-2, 8-5, and 7-6, while Miami is 6-6, 7-5, and 9-4.
To older fans that trend might seem insignificant from a historical perspective, but to an 18-year old kid it's probably huge.
What's interesting to me is that Crawford apparently isn't bothered by the idea of playing in front of massive numbers of empty seats. The only home game last year that was remotely close to capacity was Florida; for the final home game of the year against Virginia, there were over 30,000 empty seats, and three other home games had less than 50K in attendance. That's pathetic for a 74,000+ seat facility.
Not that hard to understand Don
It's not like the coeds at Michigan suddenly got homely over the last three seasons.
Or am I not paying attention when I'm on campus?
Michigan better win the divsion this year.
If they don't, then I'm done with Hoke.
I don't get excited about landing or potentially losing a recruit. If we win on the field everything else will take care of itself. If we don't win on the field this season it's not because of lack of starry recruits it's because our coaches aren't developing starry recruits properly.
That being said, the negative recruiting is starting to piss me off. Urban is the most notorious negative recruiter in college football and he''s behind a lot of what you are hearing and seeing. And it's not always to try to get a player to sign with Ohio, he knows that getting a player to not go to Michigan is important too. If he can get a stud corner to not go to Michigan it's a win for his team. The gloves are off, Hoke and company need to hit back.
Why not check out a few more schools and geographical areas when the opportunity arises? Hopefully he will see the light and return to the place that he committed to.
Been traveling since mid 90's.
Kirkland just committed...
of an early signing period for CFB, say "Aye".