what a douche.
Tom Crean - Jeff Meyer confrontation follow-up stories
Not to stray too far from the OP, but here's exhibit #1 as to why Crean is a douche.
He pulled a kid's scholarship last fall and didn't even have the decency to tell the kid straight.
Granted, not only had the kid earned a bachelor's degree in four years, he earned his master's in four years. However, Crean should have been more forthcoming and just told him - you're not getting a fifth year, instead of being vague.
Roth sounds like a good kid. You don't treat good people that way.
You do realize we pull fifth years all the time in football, right? To me, that is a non-story. The team owes you four years or a degree. If you wanted a good story about Crean screwing over a kid, the Ron Patterson story from last fall is much fishier. No one ever proved it was anything less than above-board, but it was a little to convenient for my taste. Still bothers me as an IU grad.
I addressed this in a post further down, at 8:19 AM. It's not that he didn't offer a fifth year. It's how he did it.
I recently listened to the IU "Inside the Hall" podcast and they had Roth on as a guest. This topic was somewhat awkward with the fanboy hosts.
Keeping it classy. What an asshole.
Yep, it was all Meyer's fault right? indiana suffered what, 3-4 years?
Michigan suffered for 15 years and had our own arena taken over by opposing fans multiple times a year. Don't talk to our coaches about a program being wrecked, dickhead.
Give me a break. God I hope indiana becomes the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 just to see that shithead's face after the game.
Pisses me off. I really shouldn't be surprised since he's an izzo stooge.
"God I hope indiana becomes the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 just to see that shithead's face after the game." Totally agree.
Nothing would please me more than to see this douche and his precious "program" humiliated like this.
I cannot stand Tom Crean. Other coaches like Izzo or Bo Ryan are annoying, but I can at least respect them. The little respect I had for Crean before yesterday is gone. Pardon my french, but fuck IU. I hope they lose every game from here on out.
This sounds exactly like what I was yelling at my TV after the game yesterday. Can't agree more. Indiana plays like their coach acts- whiney entitled assholes. Seeing them go out in the first round would be too good.
Tom Crean is mentally unstable.
Also, has he confronted Dan Dakich about "wrecking 'his' program"? I mean, Dakich was also an assistant under Sampson.
Regarding Meyer, I'm pretty sure Beilein, the head of the Ethics Committee, wouldn't hire someone without being confident the guy was on the up-and-up.
Michigan will never hire anyone questionable again. ESPECIALLY in the basketball program.
He was director of basketball operations at IU, and then moved onto the bench after the Sampson stuff came out. He wasn't involved in recruiting or coaching until the fiasco.
I thought he was an assistant and saw the OP's statement as an affirmation of that.
does love Meyer though, and wasn't pleased with how Crean acted. I wish he would have been more professional. I understand there is tension between the two and a backstory, but it's not the time or place to hash that out.
Never seen this before.
I can't believe you have never heard or Bobby Kn....
Oh i see what you did there. Touche.
I was talking about Lee Corso.
Just kidding, I actually like Corso for the most part. Although he probably did go a little crazy because of Wangler to Carter.
that are destined to bite him in the ass. Either in the tourney or in recruiting, somewhere.
What a low class idiot. I dont think they're legit enough to make a deep run this year, so I hope their outed in a extremely humiliating fashion. Looks to me ever since Crean has had some minor success and got a little national attention that he has taken a turn for the worse.
tweet from last night:
Crean is like a crazy chick on The Bachelor. His peers hate him, he never thinks he's at fault, and he inevitably gets sent home early
Tom Crean, Jim Harbaugh...what is it about that family that causes them to handle post-game handshakes so badly?
Harbaugh has had problems going back to his days at Stanford. Crean has had several problems this year with post-game handshakes.
WTF? Show some class.
1. Whether you win or lose, swallow your pride.
2. Look your opponent in the eyes.
3. Give them a firm handshake.
4. Say "good game", or don't say it. That's fine. If you can't say it, keep your mouth shut.
5. Return to your team and proceed with your day/evening.
Think about the mentality he must have. It's disgusting. They just clinched a B1G title and likely one seed and have a great team and his focus is on isolating out the opposing team's assistant and berating him for things that (a) he probably had little or nothing to do with and (b) happened when Crean had nothing to do with IU. How about having a positive attitude and celebrating your team's accomplishments?
What a fucking loser.
If Crean had a bone to pick with Meyer over this issue, why didn't he do it before yesterday?
I'm sure they've seen each other at various coaching and/or B1G conferences in the past 5 years.
Hell, he could have done it after any game in the past five years. Meyer has been at Michigan since 2008. Crean has been at IU since 2008. (4 or 5 years, depending on when they were hired in 2008. I'm not sure)
Why pick now to jump in Meyer's shit over this?
This board had an extensive thread on the Roth thing when it happened. Kid was at IU 5 years, got 2 degrees, and could've done the Brandon Wood thing to play right away. Most agreed it was nothing big and IU/Crean had fulfilled his obligation to the kid.
I didn't read the article you posted, but if i remember correctly, it's probably the one where he said Crean said keep his options open but that he hadn't heard from him on what to expect since. Never mind the fact that Roth went on the record later that same week to say he has taken out of context and has no hard feelings towards Crean. The same Roth who has been back to IU for several games this year. The same Roth who says he loves Crean and praises his former coach for the connections he has helped him towards in his professional life.
The same Tom Crean thats too much of a classless douche bag to handle a post game hand shake professionally.
It's Michigan sources that are saying Meyer told Crean to go F himself, which prompted Crean to act like an idiot. Neither was right, but it's not all on one guy.
No one cares about a hand shake until their guy gets brushed off. No Big Ten coaches like each other, except ones from the same coaching tree. Maybe there's a mutual respect, but they all want to beat the crud out of each other.
Michigan sources are saying that? Where did you read that?
Where's the link?
Ok well a video shows me that Crean is walking way out his way to say something to him, so im not sure how you figured that one up. Also your right im sure all the coaches dont care for each other at times, but it seems like theres eleven other coaches who can hold it in long enough to get a handshake out of the way and handle their business in private. Its called professionalism. Crean gets paid alot of money to not act like a asshole.
Meyer told him to F off in the handshake line.
Crean responded by acting like a child, telling Meyer that he helped wreck IU's program and that he knew what he did.
Both were wrong, but Crean, as always, made a bigger show of it. As a fan of both schools, I don't lke what either did, but Crean will obviously make the headline as the head coach and bigger name.
How do you double post 13 minutes apart?
and where is the link? Where are you hearing that Meyer said that?
says 8:41 and 8:42.
Meyer told him to F off in the handshake line.
If he did, there should be video of it. Feel free to produce evidence.
Meyer told him to F off in the handshake line.
If he did, there should be video of it. Feel free to produce evidence.
Cherry pick? Bullshit. I acknowledged the kid had earned two degrees in four years. It was only a fifth (optional) year that was in question.
There's nothing wrong with not giving the kid a fifth year. That happens all the time. It was a matter of how Crean handled it.
You can do what Crean did and let the kid "read between the lines", or you can be straight-forward with the kid and tell him he's not getting a fifth year.
So what if the kid says his words were taken out of context. There's nothing to gain by burning that bridge. By burning a bridge with Crean, he's potentially burning bridges with alumni that support Crean. No proof here, but just an understanding of how things work.
where Roth says he was misquoted and had no issue with Crean, how he handled it, or IU. Crean could've been more forthright, certainly, but no one knows exactly what was said or not said.
and you're putting words in Roth's mouth by implying you knew what he was doing by retracting based on "knowing how things work." truth is we don't know, and maybe he was being genuine that he was misrepresented in the article.
This is from the article:
Roth said he and Crean spoke briefly at camp, but he didn’t want to pull Crean away from coaching the young players at the camp. Roth said even though Crean didn’t directly address his status, he did tell Roth to use him as a reference for any job applications. He said he appreciated that, but it also allowed him to read between the lines.
“You kind of put one and one together there,” Roth said.
He's quoted as saying "You kind of put one and one together there.", which is my point. He didn't directly tell him - you're done.
If you don't understand that burning a bridge with your coach at a major university will negatively impact your job opportunities, then I can't talk to you.
Will you still have some opportunities? Sure. Will you have far fewer because of what may or may not have happened? Yes.
I've also noticed that your account was created on the same day that this Matt Roth scholarship story broke, Auguest 27, 2012. That's interesting.
I honestly didn't remember signing up then, but it makes sense.
I am a fan of both schools. Sounds bandwagon, but I live and die by U of M football and IU basketball. Born in Ft. Wayne, raised in Novi. My family has season tix to the Big House through my dad's company. Grew up seeing games in the mid 80's to late 90's. But all my family is in Indiana, I went to IU, and live and coach hs and AAU (eric gordon all stars) basketball in Indy.
Why haven't you posted a link to an article or tweet, or anything that Meyer told Crean to F-off?
Share the link. Otherwise, I'll assume you read it on an IU board and it's total bullshit, IU fans trying to rationalize their coach being an asshole.
but since it wasn't captured on video like Crean's, I doubt anthing will suffice as enough evidence for you.
Earlier in the handshake line.... RT
@rumorsandrants: Crean went to shake Meyer's hand, Meyer told him to go f-himself
Reports - unconfirmed so far - of what former Sampson ast Jeff Meyer did to kickstart Sunday's dustup with Crean. http://bit.ly/10CcFvI
There were multiple reports Crean didn't shake hands with anyone. How could of this happen in the handshake line?
To me it sounded like one of those "thats what probably happened" sources.
Edit: Wow never mind, a guy named "Chronic Hoosier' is even better hahaha
My point exactly. They're both IU honks.
that there's 2 sides to this, but Crean is the one who comes out looking bad. No doubt about that.
Sure there are two sides, but you copied & pasted tweets from two IU supporters, one with a link to an IU fan message board. You're taking hearsay from IU boards and referencing it here as though it were fact.
That makes you as big an asshat as Crean is.
Roth says in fact they'd been in contact about the scholarship situation all summer. However, the final numbers weren't clear until after the semester started.
"Obviously, the scholarship situation didn't work out in my favor. Prior to the end of the school year and our meetings, they were very positive. They wanted me to keep building my game and train, even if it was on my own. At the same time, they wanted to help me in any way possible, whether that was play somewhere else or play overseas in a certain league here or there. They did make those options available and offered a lot of support."
Believe what you want to believe, but do note that Mo Creek is on his fourth scholarship year even after devastating knee injuries (he has played some this season), and that Matt Roth has come to IU games this season. So there's evidence that Crean is not kicking IU underperformers off the bus.
Fan of IU Basketball and UM Football? That's convenient.
How are the Yankees looking this year? Do they have someone in the Farm system to replace Mariano?
You think Romo's gonna get a huge contract now that Flacco got his? Will Dez Bryant ever become elite?
Probably has a soft spot for Duke too.
IU in all sports, even football, except when they play Michigan.
Growing up in Novi, I'm also a huge fan of the Tigers, Red Wings, and Pistons. Still have my Alan Trammell jersey, my Chet Lemon autographs from the times he visited little league at Bosco Fields, my Wheaties box with Isiah, Joe D., Laimbeer, and others on it after 89. Hope that suffices for my Michigan fanhood. Lots of people have two teams that are dear to them for various reasons. I've seen multiple posters on here with 2 alliegances, like the Michigan and UVA guy.
it takes to look like that. Between the tanning and the hair color, you know he's a regular.
He is the worst. Never thought someone could unseat Izzo in my mind. Well played, Crean, well played.
Just a thought..
Perhaps Crean has been taking etiquette classes from brother in-law Jim Harbaugh. Harbs probably instructed Crean that this is how one must behave when they address the University of Michigan in any manner.
Methinks Crean should try hanging around John a bit more.. (the better brother)
This is a recruiting issue. Meyer has deep connections in Indiana and is stealing too many of Crean's top guys (McGarry, GRIII). Crean knows Meyer is innocent but wanted to brand him as a cheater on national TV. That's why Crean smiled when he turned his back.
So he's gonna be super mad next year when Irvin is playin against him.
...pissed me off more than the confrontation. It just shows this was a big joke to him and that he thinks it's funny to be a classless asshat to your opponent on national tv.
As others have stated, if he has a problem with Meyer, there are classier ways to handle it.
Yeah. He looks like a straight up idiot. I bet he regrets acting like that today. I wouldn't want me kids playing for him. The guys a head case.
izzo isn't above asking like a lunatic and / or pouty asshat, either, and kids line up to play for him.
i totally agree with you, by the way.
At least not with the three guys mentioned.
IU never recruited Robinson excpet in a cursory way(they should have).
Iu recruited McGary, but there were red flags, and the only way they were going to take him was as an early enrollee in the 2011 class (his real HS class before prep).
And Irvin was recruited by IU and Purdue when he was a sophomore. IU and Purdue all offered Devin Davis, Collin Hartman, Basil Smotherman, and Irvin at the same time, and it was first come first serve. IU got the first 2 guys, Purdue got Smotherman, and Michigan made off like bandits with the best of the lot who waited it out. Irvin is a stud. As a HS coach in Indy, I can say Michigan is getting the best wing player in Indiana's 2013 class.
The point was about recruiting in general and not those specific players. Crean's a very smart guy. He didn't go after him, on his biggest national stage yet, without a hidden agenda.
about recruiting, negative that is.
I like Meyer and he's a good coach. Had quite a bit of interaction with him. But it's no secret around Indy that he continued to recruit Yogi and James Blackmon Jr. to Michigan after they both committed to IU, and that he told plenty of recruits IU was dead and never coming back, when he was one who had a role in bringing it down in the first place.
"real coaches" wouldn't be trolling another schools sports blog---yea, I know you claim to be a Michigan football fan, but one who has never posted about football. You only come out when IU basketball is involved. Then when challenged on your sourcing, the best you can do is parrot an IU twitter comment. Seriously, go away, you aren't adding to the story--nor would anyone here believe a word you say.
I don't care if you believe if I'm a michigan football fan or not. I'm certainly not trolling. You just don't like my opinion. I think highly of Beilein and Meyer and LaVall. I think yesterday's post game was bad by Crean. I trust the guys i talked to who were at the game, including those with Bluiett, and therefore I also believe Meyer acted out of character.
I don't post on football because I don't know as much know about it. Couldn't tell you a cover 2 from a cover 3 if i had to. I'm just a fan. But I know basketball. I played and coach it. So I can only comment on it.
I love MGoBlog. Love the writing and the community. Love what TVH brought on the recruiting front and that Ace is bringing it now. Sorry this perspective is bothering so many. I'll stop posting on it now.
Amazingly, I have plenty of sources that think Crean is a gigantic douchebag. I can cite them if needed
I read it was the other way around. But I have no first hand knowledge either way.
You on the other hand have no credibility. For all we know you're either:
Crean's PR manager.
His brother in law.
Wow. +1 to you for bringin RDT into this. That one caught me off guard.
Could this dude possibly have a larger forehead?
That, my friend, is what you call a five-head.
Looking at the Big 10 Tournament, the way things line up, we would begin against Penn State, play Wisconsin if we win, and (probably) play Indiana if we beat Wisconsin. It's payback time. The team can prove themselves against Indiana on the Court. It will be fun to see what Crean does when IU loses in Chicago against Michigan next Saturday. Beilein is no idiot, he will know what to do.
I'm with you. We're stuck playing in the 5-12 game, which sucks, but those are exactly the teams I want to see.
Why did he choose to do this after this game? I'm not sure but I believe Michigan has indeed played Indiana before why must he feel compelled to act like this now? This was him just being douche and anyone who says otherwise is under his douche-spell.
Asshole. Seriously? Way to be a terrible representation of your university
him hunting down Meyer who was in a private chat with an IU staffer. He won the title and uses the precious time in the celebration to attack an innocent, classy coach?
Total embarrassment to IU.
Explains it all...
Who would want to play for a guy like that. Go celebrate with your team, dont put yourself in the spotlight after your team just won. ABSOLUTE DOUCHE-DICK MOVE ON CREANS PART.
It would have been an a more authentic moment if Crean had thrown a chair across the court.
I have a good friend who has been a big Indiana basketball fan for over 30 years. After watching Crean this weekend, coupled with his previous actions, he has basically quit rooting for Indiana until Crean leaves.
Absolute embarrassment. I wouldn't be surprised to see the guy have a Woody Hayes/Clemson moment in the future.
Why is he mad about someone "wrecking" the Indiana basketball program? Whether Meyer was involved or not, Crean only got the job because of the trouble Indiana was in. If anything he should be thanking him!
Excellent points that I wish I had raised about a minute earlier
But if Crean is going to act petulant, he should realize that he took the job knowing it was under sanctions. He shouldn't complain.
Beat PSU , then Wisky, and then douchebag coached Indiana. Karma baby.
That's nice of him. It doesn't change the fact he acts like a 16 year old. Most grown men can think through the consequences of theif actions before committing them. OTOH, perhaps he did think them through and accomplish exactly what he wanted.
"Crean on B1G teleconference says he apologized to Jeff Meyer on way to plane after game and wishes he'd never said anything to him."
Was probably a bad idea for him to mouth off like that. Nothing but trouble. Sure, Meyer may have been someone from the previous regime, but act like an adult after the game instead of throwing a petulant fit.
YOU'RE THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR SANCTIONS
So what, complain about it in private with your staff, but don't flat out confront him during the handshakes. That's just a jerk thing to do
That's not even to mention how fucking stupid Crean is for doing it in front of a television camera.
And....they won, not only the game, but the Big Ten championship. Why the sour grapes now? Crean doesn't have half the class a coach like Beilein has, win or lose.
The announcer in this video says that Crean is releasing a lot of "frustration". WTF is he frustrated? He would not be at IU without the problems they had. Even if he were, he would not have had the long honeymoon he had for a couple years since people understood it would take a while to get over the troubles.
Weird how some people think. I mean, would Beilein get in Steve Fisher's face? I think not.
exactly. sad the hoosiers seemingly cannot be a good team without a dick at the helm.
This is the same guy who cut down the nets last week when Motta TOTALLY outcoached Creen on Senior Night after IU got their butts kicked. Creen was really creepy during Senior night too. I believe last year he also got sweet 16 rings. Really? you are Indiana, grow up!
All coaches have egos and are emotional towards their players but this guy is fruit loops. Same with Jim Harbaugh, except Harbaugh is actually a good X's and O's guy - still not a high class competitor, even though he was one of UM's best QBs ever.
Creen will be fired within the next 5 years.
I agree with you on the shooting free throws part. However, as your first post....oh wait, you are probably the guy who has already been caved in this thread and started a new account to continue to bore us with your pointless tough internet talk.
If you have something to add that isn't douchtastic please enlighten us, if not peace out.
Tom Crean, is that you? For the life of me, I still can't understand why you're here instead of celebrating your win with your team and your school, like a real winner would be doing.
"that was an intentional foul" or "you guys are floppers". We are merely discussing the obscenely high levels of douchy-ness that your coach, Tom Crean, exhibits.
Beilein: Says he didn't see the incident with Meyer-Crean..."Michigan is going to win with class and lose with class."
— Rod Beard (@detnewsRodBeard) March 11, 2013
1. I am an Indiana grad, so I can't claim to be totally unbiased. That being said, my brother played football for UM during the Carr era and I have nothing but love for the university. I will still probably get neg banged for this, but someone needs to tell the other side of the Meyer story just to prevent epistemic closure for those who care enough to avoid it.
2. What Crean did was inexcusable. Whatever beef he had with Meyer should have been dealt with off the court and not made public. It was stupid and embarassing.
3. Many people on here don't know the details of the Kelvin Sampson saga. Meyer WAS found to have committed a series of NCAA violations, however, he was not found to have committed any MAJOR infractions. The difference being that his violations were found to be unintentional. Even if you believe Meyer had no knowledge that he was violating NCAA rules, it was his job to know. And our program paid the price for it.
4. The reason we know his calls were of an impermissible length (majority of his alleged infractions) is because of phone records. If you really want to say Meyer didn't violate NCAA rules, your beef is with Verizon and/or the NCAA rules themselves.
5. Now there is a good argument that the call limits were stupid and shouldn't have been in place since they were recently neutered or repealed (can't remember which), but that doesn't change that Meyer was breaking the exact NCAA rules which we were already on probation for. These are the same rule violations that got Sampson's staff into trouble at Oklahoma. Do you really think it is a coincidence that these practices carried over to IU? My guess is if this were Ohio State or an SEC team people would be much more willing to make logical inferences about Meyer's conduct.
Regardless of anyone's willingness to infer, at the very least Meyer committed gross negligence in not following the letter of every rule when our coach was already in hot water with the NCAA. And so, to many IU fans, they really don't care whether he intended to violate NCAA rules or not, the effect was that his actions, combined with those of Sampson and Senderoff, nuked our program. Still, as I said earlier, Crean's behavior was embarassing and inexcusable. But Jeff Meyer is no saint and was lucky to leave Indiana with his career intact. He was even luckier that someone the caliber of John Beilein gave him a second chance.
No one here has defended Meyer's tenure at IU--in fact, it has been treated as irrelevant, because for purposes of this discussion, it is. Forget that Meyer has moved on--to assist a coach with the highest ethical reputation. Forget that Crean isn't an IU grad or associated with the program when this occurred. Forget that this should be a stale issue--where was the complaint 4 years ago? Forget that it should have been addressed privately, if at all.
The fact is Crean was being an immature, attention-grabbing child. And if this were the first time, it might not generate much attention. But it isn't.
No disagreement with anything you said on Crean. But there have been a number of people (including the OP) who have referred to Meyer as being exonerated in some form or another by the NCAA. Which is untrue. Just trying to keep facts straight. Lambast the inappropriateness of Crean's actions all you want, just not their factual content. Jeff Meyer absolutely helped destroy IU's program and saying otherwise ignores what Meyer himself argued in the infractions case.
I am the OP, and I wrote "... found to be innocent of major wrongdoing" because that is the truth. You said yourself that he wasn't found guilty of any major violations (only secondary/minor). That's why when I wrote the OP I included the word major. Saying that Meyer helped destroy IU's program is like saying that Eso Akunne helped restore Michigan basketball to its current level. It's a factually true statement, but Kelvin Sampson, Ray McCallum and Rob Senderoff were the true "culprits". Every single school commits secondary violations and self-reports them to the NCAA. Doesn't make the actions right, but talk to me about Meyer destroying the program when you find that he had a major violation. Nonetheless, I thank you for your detailed post above, which is informative and well cited.
...is that "major violations" is a term of art where NCAA regs are involved. When you changed "violations" to "wrongdoing" it didn't occur to me that you meant what the NCAA refers to as "major violations". There are all sorts of major wrongdoing that don't involve NCAA regs at all.
The problems at IU under Sampson went way beyond the phone-call violations. A classes-are-optional ethos seeped into the program that hadn't been there before, and it took a lot of effort to clean it back up after the fact. I don't happen to know who on their staff played a role in those problems, other than Sampson, and I don't have any reason to think Meyer was involved in any way, but the NCAA's investigation doesn't and couldn't clear him because it didn't address that issue at all.
Good job. Good effort.
Especially after he just won the conference title outright, it seems childish to start barking about his program being ruined to a team he just barely beat. I hope IU loses to a 16 seed or someone runs into him when he's out on the court whining about a call
In so many words Tom Crean is a piece of shit. That is all.
What a d-bag. You could see him smirking when he walked away like he knew it and was proud of it. I would love it if IU lost to a 16 seed
Nothing useful to add.
Win or lose, at least our coach isn't a douchebag. Read his comments about the situation and just wish your coach could handle himself with 1/10th the class that Belein AND Meyer have.
What does this even mean? And why are you wasting your time posting nonsense on a rival message board? Go outside, enjoy the nice weather. Or do the laundry or clean dishes or some other household chore that you've been putting off. Or, better yet, do something that contributes to society as a whole. Otherwise, go fuck yourself.
Oops........a post apparently disappeared and now your post is telling me to go fuck myself.
After having read this thread, and a lot of Twitter posts on this incident, all I can say is, Way to go, Tom Crean, for making your team's great conference win all about some chip you have on your shoulder about the past.