It sounds like the usual "checks in the mail" response, I'm not holding my breath on St. Dantonio doing anything proper. I expect slime. Green slime.
this may be of some local interest
It sounds like the usual "checks in the mail" response, I'm not holding my breath on St. Dantonio doing anything proper. I expect slime. Green slime.
out of the Ohio State playbook.
I saw that; glad you mentioned it.
It is so rich. It wasn't even an isolated incident in this one freakin' game, much less in the long and storied tradition of MSU trips to the dorm cafetierias.
It depends on how much you're willing to isolate it conceptually in your own mind. There was only one incident at that very small, particular spot on the space-time continuum. In that sense, it was isolated, and he isn't lying...Hurray for integrity!
When Bill Clinton parsed the language to interpret the question "is there a relationship with Ms. Lewinsky" he was able to answer "no", because he was not, at that time, engaged in the act of fucking her.
This feels a lot like that. This "is" an isolated incident, because, at the time of the alleged incident, Tom Gholston was not also engaged in any other personal fouls with intent to injure.
Tom not end well.
Tom have to commend you for this! Well played!
Should bring back the pos-bang
The world can see what a scumbag of a person Dantonio is, instead of cherry-picked data the Freep snorts.
puked at Chris Speilman touting what an upstanding coach Dantonio is after the helmet twisting. If true, why no benching and then again after the punch and before that the arm break attempt on Lewan.
The solution is quite simple:
Players involved in an investigation should be suspended until the investigation is resolved. That would provide a little urgency for MSU to move this process along, and would ultimately put the onus on the individual institutions to police and discipline their players, rather than handing cases over to the NCAA.
Guilty until proven innocent? That's not fair for players. Because some are innocent.
However, when someone like Gholston does what he did, an immediate action should take place. The NCAA needs to stop pussy footing around and take action on factual events.
We had all the relevant facts at the time of the offense. There is nothing else to go over. Innocent players are shown to be innocent as soon as the video is played and, hey, he didn't twist his face-mask. It's not as though there are mitigating factors to consider.
time to let it go already
That's pretty how the NCAA operates and it has resulted in some bad, unfair outcomes for ahtletes. So while I get the spirit of what you're suggesting, I couldn't endorse it.
That said, I would love to see it bite schools in the ass when they foot-drag or reveal things AFTER big games (or bowl games). We definitely need something punitive in place.
I believe it has already been stated that once a school has been notified, they have 3 days to respond (which would be Wednesday). After that, the B1G commish has 3 days to respond to that, if he wishes. So I don't think Sparty is going to be able to just wait this out until it's convenient for them.
You're assuming that we're talking about a world where 1 + 1 = 2. Instead, we're talking about college football disciplinary processes.
Honestly tho, the Wisconsin game seems like a lost cause to MSU. No one in the B1G can match up with them. The Nebraska game the following week holds much stronger ramifications for their 1 game lead in the legends division.
has problems on the O line, but I don't think they will necessarily get run out of town in this one without Gholston (their 8th leading tackler). They have speed in the secondary and a nasty D Line. That is why I don't understand why they would not just pull this off like a bandaid. They are not getting off completely from these incidents, they should just take the medicine now and just use it for added motivation against Wisconsin. The way they have played it, College Gameday is going to be a 2 hour documentary about State being dirty and not owning up. Their whole approach to this has been same old Sparty if you ask me. Remember Iowa and rushing Rucker to the Stadium in prison orange, how did that work out for them? Just one huge distraction, and he was completely ineffective. State is going to spiral downhill from here, and they have only their jacked up response to an obvious suspension to blame. SOS, you can count on it every year, just give them a chance.
How about next year we just win the game so we can not cry about this. I'm getting extremely sick of each thread coming up as something else about Gholston/Dirty Plays. We were not the better team and MSU's personal fouls kept us in it. We will get them next year when have a better team, until then its on to Purdue.
How about we alert the B1G office and the referees to be watching for this type of MSU behavior right now while it is still fresh so that they will be looking for it so we can get even more penalty yardage in A2 next year?
This is so ridiculous. As if the Big Ten isn't aware of these things and our Coaching staff isn't doing precisely that. I've never in my life seen a group of fans set out to lynch another teams players like folks here have this week. and i'll tell you what, as someone outside of the state - no one else cares. in fact, i polled people at my office here in KC about it and the general consensus was "you guys got your asses beat." Not one person had a word to say about Gholston, let alone rush. Just shrugs all around.
It's football. Gholston is not the first, nor will he be the last to throw a punch. Rush committed a personal foul and was assessed 15 yards for it. That's all that will ever happen to him in particular, and petitions to have him suspended are ludicrous. What happens when Martin throws a QB down hard and he gets hurt? will you all be calling Delaney to have HIM suspended? These guys play with a lot of passion, and this game in particular gets everyone revved up. Look at what Gallon did to #5. Heck, #5 got his ass beat a few times. I guarantee you MSU is putting a compilation of plays together as we whine about this that will show plenty of off the books behavior by both teams.
The ony thing we should care about is the fact that we couldn't take advantage of the GIFTS their lack of control gave us. We should have won that damned game despite being outplayed because of those PFs. That is what pisses ME off. If Lewan can shrug and walk away from that "punch" then so can I - and you should be able to as well. I just don't get the whole "I can't wait to watch them lose to Wisconsin!" thing - like that's some solace to our loss. who gives a shit about MSU losing to Wisconsin? I care about MICHIGAN losing to MSU!!! How will Wisky kicking their ass help us one little bit?
I swear this place is in the midst of some serious mass delusion over the reality of the situation. Gholston will probably be suspended, but Rush won't - and he shouldn't be. And to suggest that a Big Ten Team goes out to deliberately injure players is silly. It's just not true and deep down you know it. Frankly, I wish all the Gholston nonsense would be locked up and the entire board would just move on to Purdue and focusing on what MICHIGAN needs to do to win 10 games.
Which is why I don't much care to discuss Gholston and Rush beyond, "suspend them." If they are both gone for Wisconsin, and Wisconsin wins, all that anybody will remember out where you are in Kansas City is that Wisconsin won, MSU lost, and that both MSU and Michigan will be one-loss teams in the B1G, with MSU traveling to Nebraska, and Michigan hosting Purdue.
And how exactly do you propose I "focus" on what it takes to beat Purdue? Should I, uh, spend extra time in the weight room? Study my playbook? Look at more game films? You want me to pick up my intensity for game day?
I am going to be having a Bloody Mary on Saturday morning. I don't think it is going to help my game-day performance.
But if you don't think that public outcry can -- just possibly -- incrementally help in a situation like this controversy with Gholston/Rush, you need to get out more.
No one in KC cares because people don't care about Michigan State outside of east Lansing.
Also, if you don't know how Wisconsin beating their asses helps us out, you obviously dont know shot about football.
Also also, there is a huge, huge difference between a defensive lineman throwing a quarterback down legally and him getting injured and a defensive lineman suplexing a QB over his shoulder 3 seconds after he lets go of the ball (not to mention said defensive players coordinator saying that is what they are trying to do and they are glad it didn't get called more). One is a cheap shot, the other is a football play. I hope Cousins doesn't get taken out for the season on a cheap late hit....the irony flowing out of the MSU boards would be amazing.
you mean, "We Tom get them next year when we have a better team."
I understand what you're saying. I want to just beat the hell out of Sparty as much as anybody. But, win or lose no matter how lopsided, there is simply no place for this kind of behavior on the field. period. This isn't crying over spilled milk. this isn't sour grapes because we lost. Dirty play is just that, dirty. You should not have to put up with it because it is an intense rivalry. It should not define that rivalry. I have a work friend who is an MSU alum and he is embarassed by how dirty they played. He said it before I did! Football is a tough physical game already. There is no need for the kind of PURPOSEFUL attempts to hurt another player that Gholston exhibited. He should not have finished the game and SHOULD be suspended for several. Blount was suspended for the remainder of his senior year from sucker-punching a player immediately following the game. Not during the game. You could even make the argument that Gholston's actions are worse because he did it in a game they had the upper hand in and continued to do it. Blount at least seemed like he lost his composure after a tough loss. It's not excusably but he paid handsomely for it. So should Gholston.
The lewan racist shit is that shit. Please put the video of round trees thuggery here for all to see- I have yet to see it.
Here's an idea for you. If you're sick and tired of the threads about Gholston/Dirty Plays, maybe you should skip opening/reading one entitled "Timing of MSU suspensions."
MSU made a big mistake talking trash about the physically toughest team in the conference. Playing Wiscy is difficult even under normal circumstances. MSUjust won its Super Bowl and followed it up by giving Wiscy locker room material; there is no other way for this to end for them but bad.
I think it would be great if they stonewalled and the suspensions took effect just in time for Nebraska. Wiscy can beat them straight up this year with no help, and the refs will be watching for Sparty Shenanigans. This game could go very sideways for Sparty.
Too bad the B1G office is "seedless." Gholston and Narduzzi deserve season-long suspensions. It would be great if they got them, but they won't. At this point, though, I will thankfully embrace anything that makes Sparty suffer.
I like how you think. That was my thought as well . . . better for us if State plays Wisconsin at full strength, loses, and has multiple game suspensions that go into effect prior to Nebraska, etc.
Although, having said that, I want to see suspensions come down, and really don't care that much when, just as long as it happens.
Glad to hear that Mark Hollis is "looking into the matter". It will , no doubt, take a bit of time so he can look at all the camera angles and gather all the available still photographs that will aid MSU in making a sound decision. I'm sure AD Hollis expects this process to be complete in about, oh say the week of the Minnesota game. Acting on this matter before that would simply not be prudent.
It never changes with these clowns. They just reek of MSU.
Where is the president of the university. Is this the way you want your university portrayed? Apparently it is because MSU"s president has been absent after the Kampfer incident, after football beatdowns 1 & 2, and after the alleged rape involving Appling and Payne.
If MSC let this stuff go I would want her head on a platter.
on your point. But I can't help but find it funny that you have the "Lady Wolverine Meat Wagon" as your avatar as you make an excellent point about a higher moral code for universities.
But, I guess at least you have an avatar. . .
I dunno about that. I expect the president to be involved behind the scenes (and she very likely might be--stressing how bad it is for MSU to get in the headlines for crap like this) but it would seem weird to me to have her comment in the press about disciplinary issues involving individual students. Even well-known students.
I just called and spoke with a rep in Delany's office. Expressed my concern about the specific PFs by Gholston (punch, face mask twist) and Rush (body slam, after Robinson threw the pass). She told that it is being discussed now. I asked how soon it would be dealt with. Reply, "soon".
They are listening.
about Gholston's attempt to break Lewan's arm. If anyone gets through to the office, let's make sure all of the transgressions are itemized. Thanks, though, for making the effort to call and for the info.
This is quite surprising. You had a legitimate chance to work Rosenberg into one of your posts, and you didn't do so. See: Michael Rosenberg: Michigan State should suspend William Gholston.
Also, I'm not sure which Rittenberg column you're referring to, but in this article he makes it pretty clear that MSU can't delay this as long as you claim they can:
The conference handbook states a school must submit a report to the commissioner on any potential sportsmanlike-conduct violations three business days after being notified. According to the timeline, Michigan State has until Wednesday to reply.
So even if MSU decides to do nothing, the Big Ten could issue a suspension as early as Thursday.
Well played, sir!
Rosenberg and I appear to be fearful of the same thing; Dantonio and Hollis somehow playing out the procedural string until their guys are safe, timing-wise, for Wisconsin. Not sure about Rosenberg, but I think that both he and I are a little vague on how long the process can go.
And I don't know if Rittenberg has it right, either. Maybe he does.
But without knowing, I think this is very disconcerting. There is no possible reason why any more time is needed for review, other than that the rules (which are probably created for cases in which there might be some real doubt) allow it to be strung out this far.
...whether handed down by MSU or Delaney is likely to only be one game no matter how much we want it to be more. And for MSU, it is more important that Gholston play against Divisional contenders Nebraska than this weekend at Wisky.
In other words, there is nothing to be gained by delaying.
I think if MSU gives him one game the conference probably will leave it alone (I can't think of them extending anyone's school-issued suspension before, not even the Robert Reynolds one where tacking at least a game on was absolutely warranted) but if they do not suspend him themselves I wouldn't be surprised to see the conference give him two.
For what Gholston did, he should sit the rest of the year. His knee and head twist could have left Robinson with broken ribs and/or a broken neck. That is the sort of conduct that has gotten some NHL players charged criminally.
if I'm wrong). First he tries to break someone's (Lewan's) arm. Then he deposits an uppercut to his chin (clearly HURTS, if you watch the replay). Then he tries to twist Denard's head off. If I'm not mistaken, he should be looking at punishment for all three offenses, going strictly by the book.
I won't be surprised by anything, including Gholston only facing punishment over one of the incidents, or Rush getting off without penalty. I noticed on an MSU board the claim that Roundtree had committed some kind of infraction, too; could be another mitigating factor.
If Roundtree committed some kind of non-inadvertent infraction with a possible outcome of injury (I have read something about a facemask pull, but didn't see the play) then the appropriate thing to do would be to suspend him as well. At the end of the day, job one ought to be player safety and such behavior unnecessarily exposes players to risks beyond those that they are normally exposed to in the course of playing a violent contact sport within the rules.
Mama always said two wrongs don't make a right. In this case, if two wrongs exist, the should not cancel each other out.
If in fact Roundtree did something, M should have already taken action. That would only make the MSU thugs look worse.
I watched the video but won't bother posting it because there was nothing dirty about it (it was posted in another thread). It was inadvertant facemask at worst. It is nothing to even think about.
Does anyone else think that his "thanking" Hoke for bringing Michigan back is actually more smug than Mike Hart's comments re: little brother? After all, he did it to Hoke's face, and Hart was kinda egged on by the media to give that answer. The difference here is that Hoke responded like an adult and Dantonio didn't, so the media hasn't made a big deal of this one.
But if you look at Gholston's postgame interview in which he was asked about it (and on the tv broadcast there is a tiny moment of video showing it), Gholston sounds more like a suspect in an episode of "C.O.P.S." than a Big Ten athlete. It is one of the wierdest things you'll ever see. Naturally as always, all suspects are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Hoke is probably too classy for us ever to find out, but there has to be more to that story. Gholston's story makes no sense, especially since Hoke was in San Diego during Gholston's recruitment, so there's no reason to believe that they had a preexisting relationship.
Pretty sure that when asked about it, Hoke said something like he couldn't remember what Gholston said. Obviously, that could mean a lot of different things. From Hoke's comment, I infer that Gholston didn't actually say that, but Hoke wasn't about to engage in Dantonio-esque media shots at a player from another team.
I doubt we'll see Rush suspended. Those kinds of personal fouls are fairly frequent and I've never seen a player suspended for throwing a QB to the ground.
Both Gholston plays clearly warranted suspensions, especially if you consider other recent suspensions. The question with Gholston is not whether he will get suspended (I'm 99% sure he will), but for how long.
Have you seen this video? I don't know about you, but what I see is an obvious personal foul. I see an intent to injure the QB, insofar as Rush doesn't merely throw him to the ground (the ball is long gone and he knows it), but he grabs Denard, throws him down and dives on top of him.
This is the sort of play that will easily, clearly and obviously earn a fine and a suspension in the NFL. Should the NCAA and the Big Ten be somehow less protective of quarterbacks?
Charles Martin v. Jim McMahon in 1986. Play was over, Martin with a body slam, suspended for rest of year, IIRC.
Two differences...this was during an interception return, not just after a throw, And McMahon's season was ended by the injury.
But, the pimp hand of justice was served post body slam.
I posted this later in this thread, but wated to respond to Section 1, as he has the actual video linked in his post.
DON'T look past the initial, blatant "strike" on Denard by Rush!
He open handed karate chopped Denard's neck with BOTH hands as he was coming down upon Denard. After the CHOPS, he then grabbed Denard as an afterthought and threw him down.
I believe he was trying to break Denard's collarbones with the initial strike(s) to the neck, and then wrapped him up and tossed him aside to cover up the CHOPS!
Furious if this goes unpunished by the Big10.
Really? This isn't a kung foo movie. More likely, he was trying to swipe the ball Denard was throwing...
Did you even watch the video in Section 1's post above? Watch it and then make a comment.
Deny, delay, obfuscate, hope there is another scandal to save you and try to slip under the radar.
Now, everybody will do this, because the NCAA can't/ won't enforce rules.
I did the typical "shock/horror/children/protecting athletes" thing.
The National Collegiate Athletic Association
700 W. Washington Street
P.O. Box 6222
Indianapolis, Indiana 46206-6222
I can't find the Big Ten's address.
I don't suppose that there is any harm in writing to the NCAA, but jurisdictionally speaking, this is really a matter for the Big Ten Conference Office in Park Ridge and not the NCAA.
I'm aware. Like I said, could not find the B1G address.
Why was Mouton suspended by the Big Ten for something that happened in a non-conference game?
Two ways to take your statement. I'm hoping you are asking "why was the B1G the one to take action since it was non-conference?" and not "it occured in a non-conference game, so why was any action taken?"
...and for the record, I kind of agree that they should have taken action re: Mouton. It's not as egregious as what we saw this past Saturday, but still doesn't belong in the game.
I should have asked: why did the Big Ten unilaterally rush to judgement on Mouton, given that it was a non-conference game?
And, the follow-up question: since the Big Ten is so quick to judge their own in non-conference situations, why haven't we heard anything from Delany in this in-conference situation?
I'm almost certain that after the Mouton incident the Big Ten put into place new procedures for dealing with these incidents. First the Big Ten has to notify a team of "unsportslike or possible unsportslike conduct" by one its players. That team then has three business days to issue a response. The Big Ten then has three business days to make a decision, but it should be noted that they don't have to take the full three days. The team then has three business days to file an appeal. This is according to a Kyle Meinke article at annarbor.com. These procedures weren't in place at the time of the Mouton incident.
It's also worth noting that the Mouton suspension was handed down on the Thursday following the game. MSU has to submit their response to the Big Ten by Friday at the latest (it's unclear when the Big Ten notified MSU--it could have been Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday). So you're not going to hear anything from the Big Ten until MSU gets their three days to respond. I'd expect a quick decision from the Big Ten after that, so it's possible the Big Ten will still hand down a suspension this week (if MSU decides not to do so itself).
Michigan is a Big Ten team? Just a guess.
Sparty will be squished by the beast that is Wisconsin.
Not worthy of its own thread, but I've seen MSU types saying that the Big Ten should look into Roundtree trying to "decapitate" someone in the game Saturday. Anyone have video of that?
...which, while unfriendly and an uncalled personal foul, is the kind that is ordinary to football and not an intent to injure well outside the acts of blocking or tackling. I think Rush is in this same category - there is however nothing about this which is similar to Gholston.
Uhhh are you kidding me? How could someone say that was dirty with a straight face?
...that's what the RCMB was pointing to. It's not dirty, not an attempt to injure, and certainly not an attempted "decapitation".
Definitely a 15 yard penalty.
Definitely not a premeditated/malignantly-designed attempt at manslaughter.
Two guys get tied up in a block, hands slip up into the mask. Unfortunate, but it's a penalty. The difference between this and the two Gholston ones is that this is a football play gone bad. Gholston's plays are not football plays.
No I hadn't heard this. Would love to see proof. And if it's true suspend him. Actually we could suspend him before sporty suspends gholston. We could suspend him for this Saturday..... Oh that's a bye- that would be so dantonioish.
Gholson wasn't mentioned once, and the hardest question asked which was even tangentially related was one of those "how do you feel that people call you dirty" uber-softballs. And this was after rumors that the presser would involve an announcement of Gholson's suspension. Disciplinarian Dantonio at work again, I guess.
Isn't the fact that a given play/hit/tackle is unnecessary mean that it's also dirty?
NO. To me, it is perfectly acceptable to light someone up with a good clean hard tackle even if you could have just pushed them down. By the above standard, a pancake block, would more than likely be "dirty".
This is assuming the block is necessary though (as in part of the play). If you were to pancake block someone fifteen seconds after the whistle, it's dirty because it's unnecessary.
The difference is one is attempting to keep a defender away from the ball, the other is only an attempt to rough up an opponent. A player shouldn't be penalized if, during the course of a play, the other guy can't stay on his feet. They should be penalized if it has nothing to do with the play.
Really, he needs a notice to begin an investigation? He should have begun his investigation after the first punch. If that didn't get his attention then the face mask should have. And what of driving Denard to the ground in a way that nobody could interpret except as an intent to do bodily harm.
If by chance he really believed that this was in the spirit of the game then the staff's comments afterward should have clarified that the spirit of the game for the Spartans was unnecessary roughness.
Hollis says they are looking at different camera angles. I mean really, how many angles do you need to see what happened? I hope that they get all that is coming to them in terms of editorials and condemnation. More, I hope they understand, that this is why they will never be better than the University of Michigan. They just can't.
I dont see the issue with Marcus Rush's hit on denard. Its a normal hit after the throw. I see those hits all the time. I think Gholsten is the main issue.
And one of the things I dislike about the (limited) attention that this is getting, is that it is often defined as a Gholston-story.
I really want to forcefully bring it around to Marcus Rush. Suspending two defensive starters is a lot more meaningful. It is a bigger story for GameDay next Saturday. And it hurts their defense a lot more, with fewer places to hide lesser players on the two-deep.
As a singular event I'd probably agree, as the final straw in a string of plays that State was quick to endorse (wanting 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness) it's something different.
Edit: In response to Rush's hit.
Rush went in with his arms up in an effort to block the pass. He knew the pass was gone. The blow to the head was reasonably inadvertent and relatively harmless, so we can dismiss that. (it would have drawn a fine in the NFL, though). The problem is that, even after the pass was gone, after the hit, he continued to wrap him up, plant, spin and throw Denard to the ground.
Properly coached, that hit would have been the end of the play. Rush's continuation demonstrates his (or his coach's) willful intent to injure Denard.
This isn't a divorce proceeding. There's nothing to appeal, everything is on tape, and the Big Ten won't take long to reject their appeal. The only way this goes more than a week is if Delany wants it to, and I think as a conference commissioner he'd rather see the undefeated team win than MSU.
Delany is a useless piece of shit, and is laughably inept at making sense, let alone appropriately punishing players. But as a conference head, he's got Wisconsin to think about more than MSU in this situation. It's not fair (sometimes), but you are totally correct.
Two or three 11-1 teams is worth less than one 12-0 team in most situations if you are a power conference.
I called and it's busy!? Where can I get an address to mail some letters?
I could care less about r season...i want them 2 pay!
Please do not forget to lobby for the suspensions of Craig Roh for trying to snap Edwin Baker's head off after the end of the play while a ref is watching as well as Jordan Kovacs for trying to rip of the head of Dan Persa.
Nice try, but these aren't close to what sparty did. Cover ups never work- ask tressel.
Clearly jumping on somebody's head and ripping their helmet off by their facemask is not nearly as bad as tackling a quarterback 10ths of a second after he releases a pass. This entire board is delusions. You are the biggest bunch of sore losers. Pathetic.
The amount of violence involved with these plays is something that we could spend hours and hours debating.
For example, I contend that while yes, Kovacs did grab Persa's facemask, the nature of the helmet and the fact that it came off was far less dangerous than twisting the helmet around with someone's head in it. Also, watching that play live, it seemed to me that because Persa ducked, it was more that Kovacs' hand ended up on his facemask rather than a blatant attempt to grab it. I would also argue that while Roh's play wasn't the cleanest in the world, I would say that Gholston's facemask on Denard was, again, considerably worse. And EVEN if you argued that Roy Roundtree was just as violent, I'd argue that they were grappling - rather than lying on the bottom of a pile.
On top of that, you are looking at incidents by three separate players - Roundtree, Kovacs and Roh. Whereas, with Gholston - one is an incident, two is a trend, and three is assault. Fuck that guy.
You have an impressive faith in the power of reason.
I married a scientist. I come by it honestly.
Baker is not at the bottom of a pile after a play has been whistled dead where Roh comes in w the only intent to injure. He is in the act of tackling him solo.
Peres ducked and got hit. The play was whistled dead because the helmet came off not after.
Logic must not be taught at msu.
That's a still photo. We can't tell from that photo if Roh's hand pulled his facemask or if it just happened to be there when the camera flashed. Given that the official standing right next to him didn't throw a flag, I'm guessing this "infraction" was less than Gholston-esque.
After about 25 consecutive 10ths of a second had passed.
Please do not forget to lobby for the suspensions of Craig Roh for trying to snap Edwin Baker's head off after the end of the play while a ref is watching
If the ref watched that Roh play and didn't throw a flag, what does that tell you?
You are correct. It no longer is just another game. Doesnt mean we still won't make fun of all your spartiness
Trying to make it about 1 play only in their statement is laughable.
I actually would rather the whole process did get delayed a week. Wisconsin is gonna smoke them regardless. Nebraska would be a tighter battle and they'll need Gholston to put them over the top. Let them shoot themselves in the foot by pussyfooting around.
I'm not personally predicting a two-game suspension for Gholston, but others have. And indeed, looking at his crime spree on Saturday, I think that there is an excellent case to be made for a two-game suspension for Gholston.
And that case, for a two-game suspension for Gholston, might go something like this; "Mr. Delany, Mr. Carollo; let's presume that an incident like one of the Gholston infractions happens with 1:15 remaining in the third quarter. And the player is immediately ejected. Would that 17-minute ejection constitute the player's entire suspension from play? Or would we add another entire game? I would suggest that we should make this message be that if you do things like this, you will be ejected, and if not, suspended for more than one game when there is a clear intent to injure, and when there are multiple fouls."
So what I don't want to happen, is to have Gholston get a two-game suspension and have one of them be Minnesota. Let's get Gholston suspended, now, and worry about Nebraska later.
Dont forget that your players and coaches said all of this was a non issue. The fans need to let it go and move on. Quit whining.
You have a bunch of dirty thugs that play for your school.
That your real name is not C. Roh.
and I normally don't favor a player being suspended. However, when a guy tries to twist a players head off and that same player throws a punch a suspension should be automatic.
If Jonas Mouton gets one then Gholston should get two from his two plays. For those of you that watched CFL Matt Millen was saying that it was a harmless play and Chris Fowler was like what the hell.
Link to the CFL video you're talking about: Herbie and Millen on MSU's William Gholston
So Millen claims that helmet twist goes on all the time in the NFL? Is that true?
What surprises me is that players think they can get away with this kind of stuff when there are HD cameras filming games from every angle now. That wasn't the case two decades ago when Millen was playing.
So anything that happens with any regularilty should not be punished. Welcome to anarchy courtesy of the worst GM in sports history.
There was a third Gholston incident that did not get called, and another assault on Denard - If you watch early in the 4th quarter maybe about 11-12 minutes left? Gholston sacks Denard. After Denard is clearly down for a few seconds, he pulls on the back of Denards pads, pulling Denard onto his neck and roll his hips over Denard - purposely trying to again hurt Denards neck. Check the video yourself to see.
I saw that video as well. It is a hard play to describe in words. You did rather nicely. It's a pileup, really. But a clear intent to twist Denard. A polite way of saying an attempt to injure him.
People ought to be calling what happened what it actually was.
Forget the punch, that happens. For that, Gholston should have been ejected from the game, regardless of what might have been said to him that hurt his feelings.
Clearly, Gholston was intent on causing injuries.
Not once, but repeatedly;
1- Coming into a pile knee first at Denard was an intent to do injury.
2- Twisting Denard's helmet was an intent to do injury.
3- Then, what was done to Taylor Lewan's arm was an intent to do injury.
Intent to cause injury ought to be taken as serious.
These are reasons enough that Gholston ought to be banned from playing sports at any school.
In one of the threads yesterday I posted this exact same thought.....somehow they will delay the suspension until after the Wisconsin game. This is right out of the Jim Tressel playbook with Tat Gate and the Sugar Bowl. Jim Delaney could have stepped in then and he didn't do it. He's not going to do it now. He cares more about possibly having a 'good game' than what is doing the right thing.
The B1G should have a standard rule: you throw a punch, landed or not landed, you're ejected from that game and suspended the next. No appeals. If Mike Martin or Denard Robinson did it the week before playing Ohio, I would feel the same way. Sorry....you screwed up now. Face the consequences.
"If Mike Martin or Denard Robinson did it the week before playing Ohio, I would feel the same way. Sorry....you screwed up now. Face the consequences."
I understand opposing fans think I am just emotional and I truly don't believe this.
Seriously, I do. If you break the rules, you don't play and if you don't weigh in, you don't wraaastle. Simple as that.
I thought you were adults? Grow up and move on. Stuff like this happens DAILY in football. Coming from the same people that cheer for Suh on Sundays!
Let me get this straight: the mature, "adult" thing to do is tacitly approve of William Gholston when he twists a defenseless player's facemask and punches an opposing player?
Is always the mature thing to do.
As I do not agree with Ghoulston's play no one on here can do anything about it. So move on and cheer for your team. Quit with the pull Denard lines and play Gardner. It's one loss and Michigan got beat by a bigger and stronger team. Michigan did however play close most of the game which is an improvement from prior years. Most of you said at the beginning of the year you would be happy with 8-4 who did you expect them to lose to?
better September heisman than the non existant heisman winners in EL.
That is patently false pandering. Either people in Bolivia are oblivious or you are purporting a straw man of Neanderthal proportions. I personally have read more than twenty suggestions that Marcus Rush should be included.
This clip clearly displays intent to injure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21qTQUXi8gc
Intent to injure is not something that can be tolerated in any sport, especially after the play. Michigan fans would not be complaining if Denard had been injured with the ball in his hands during a live play as long as the hit was clean. If Worthy buried him under the ground during live action, nobody would be complaining (except perhaps us about our offensive line). Nobody would be suspended. Obviously, this is not the case.
Other notable cases of intent to injure that have not received enough attention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1MS_rmh5Qc&feature=related
The first clip is not nearly as bad as the second. Worthy got too aggressive after the play, but he did not really do anything that would normally injure a player. The second, however, is disgusting and does not belong in sports.
Oblivious Bolivians? Yikes, say that 10 times fast.
No, he isn't.
And yes, he is.
If you take a closer look at the initial hit Rush put on Denard, he karate chopped Denard's neck with both hands.
Watch the open area between Denards shoulder pads and the base of his helmet - the MF'er was trying to break Denard's collarbones. Seriously, take another look at the initial "strike" - it's two open handed karate chops to the exposed base of his neck - and THEN he wraps him up and throws him down.
It's not the take down that injured Denard - IT WAS THE CHOPS TO THE NECK!!!
Sparty is out of control.
He needs some discipline.
Where's Alabama, all dressed in leather and spikes, with a whip, when you need her?
But a selection of plays drawing fines, and/or suspensions. (Again, it is hard to "fine" NCAA student-athletes; and really, does anyone think that less protectiohn ought to be afforded to NCAA football quarterbacks, than NFL quarterbacks?)
Ndamukong Suh (fined $7500), and James Harrison ($20,000):
James Harrison (fined $25,000):
The remarkable body-slam of Jim McMahon, resulting in the two-game suspension of Charles Martin (the timing of this one is crazy; but the act itself is remarkably like what Rush did to Denard; and of course 'timing' is no excuse for Marcus Rush because by all accounts his was a late hit to Denard Robinson, for which he was rightly flagged):
I know that there's an instructional (suspension-warning) NFL video for players on avoiding helmet-to-helmet hits and hits to the head and neck; is there one about body-slamming QB's? Perhaps some of you guys who spend more time watching the NFL will know.
We have videos to teach defensive driving, too. We do not have videos to teach drivers to avoid deliberately running over defenseless pedestrians on the sidewalk.
There are personal fouls and there are personal fouls. Some happen because you've taken a bad angle and you're a step late and out of control at the sideline or you reach and get mask instead of body. Or you duck your head in the tackle and get helmet on helmet.
And some are deliberate, calculated assaults.
What was unusual about this game wasn't the number of PF's, it was the number that were not of the "oops, my bad" variety.
has actually become more stupid since he left the Lions. His comments on ESPN regarding the Gholston facemask incident prove he is an utter fool. Here's the link again in case you can't find it. This guy is a total tool. I suppose he thinks it's OK to cheat in class as long as you don't get caught.
I'm betting that part of their pregame ritual, besides changing out of their orange jumpsuits and taking their leg shackles off is watching the opening kickoff from the Longest Yard.
One can almost hear Tommy Gholston chanting; "I think I broke his fricken neck"
I see some very unsettling indications that this will be dragged out beyond this week.
And let's now remember the process with Jonas Mouton in 2009. Michigan was given a call, on Thursday, telling them that after a review of film at the request of Charley Weis, the head coach of
Big Ten member institution Notre Dame, they had decided that Mouton would be suspended. No time to run drills with a backup for Mouton; no time for any real practices. No time to prepare any other defenses to work around the loss of Mouton. No appeal, no hearing, no nuthin'.
Now to be fair, we complained about that procedure, and Delany appears to have changed the procedure as a result. But I cannot imagine that the plan was to allow schools to game the timing, such that they could essentially "game" which week they might want a suspension to occur.
Does anybody imagine what might be happening right now, if next week MSU played Minneosta and in two weeks played Wisconsin? Dantonio would have held a news conference on Sunday, summarily suspending Gholston. And probably Rush too. One game each, all done with at the conclusion of Minnesota.
I think what you fail to see is most fans aren't to concerned about the punch. I know I'm not. The punch was reactionary to Lewans actions. The suspensions are needed for the helmet twist of Denard. Goulston made a blatant attempt to injure another player and that is where the suspension is needed. Any tome a player makes an attempt to seriously injure another they deserve the suspension. Which is why I believe some are looking for suspensions for Rush also. The degree that those players went to in order to injure another player needs to be addressed.
Don't know what happened to the comment I was replying to. I replied using the goblog app from my Droid but the comment seems to be missing on the web site.
Go back to RCMB.
And your moniker is stupid. Same old Wolverines? You mean like the ones that hold a 67-32-5 record over MSU?
Enjoy getting rolled on Saturday.
I mentioned this yesterday, but it seems MSU knows has no boundries to how far they'll go to stretch the rules.
Mark Hollis was notified of potential unsportsmanlike conduct TODAY. TUESDAY. He has 3 days to respond. (Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.) The Big 10 has 3 days to rule. Monday (of next week), Tuesday, Wendesday.
The incident occurred Saturday. Hollis should have been informed of the "potential" (potential?! my square white ass) unsportsmanlike conduct Monday morning at 9am Eastern Time. Hell, he should have been notified on his cell phone at about 3PM Saturday.
Not sure what to say; I don't know enough to disagree with you, but I'm not sure that I agree. I'm glad that you wrote what you did. But I am not so sure that the B1G has to wait 3 days to rule. They give MSU three days to respond, and that might take us through to Thursday or Friday, but then once they do respond, why couldn't the Conference rule, on Friday afternoon, that Gholston and Rush are suspended? Why does the Conference have to wait, if it doesn't want to?
As I say, part of the reason I am concerned here is because I am not exactly sure how this rule is supposed to work. And part of the reason I am concerned is because you might be exactly right.
...but I thought the reason for the 3-day rules was, respectively, (1) to require the school to respond in time for punishment to be handed down before the next game and (2) to reassure schools that the B1G's decision will be fairly prompt.
I can't think of a single case where the B1G held off on a decision until after the succeeding game. I'm sure we'll know by Friday afternoon at the latest.
I would much prefer Dantonio delaying this whole process for a game, so Gholston can play against Wisky who they have NO chance of beating with or without Gholston, and then him taking his inevitable 1 game suspension against Nebraska, who they have a much better chance of beating with him in the game. I feel like this gives MSU a better chance of slipping to 2-2 in the conference, which would open the door to the winner between us or Nebraska to go to the title game, assuming that we respond well to the loss.
at saying one thing and DOING Another...Its CLEAR MSUs appraoch is to Stall, obfusicate, delay, stall, etc etc until Wisc and Neb games are over...After all isnt this EXACTLY what Jim Tressel would do? He learned from the Master....MSU is OSU light..In EVERY aspect..
Liars ,Cheats and Dirty
Danontios "ZERO Tolerance" is really ZERO Integrity...He like Tressel tries to cultivate a image by WORDS all the while doing the Opposite undercover, covering tracks, parsing words and out and out lying...