Timing on MSU suspensions

Submitted by Section 1 on

First, some meta-stuff.

I realize there are a lot of threads on this topic.  Reflective of very large interest, they all get rather large and filled up in a short period of time.  So I am not particularly sorry about starting another one.

Second, for reasons that I'll get into, I think that there is some urgency with the issue of public pressure being exerted on Jim Delany, Bill Carollo and the B1G offices, to act on suspensions of William Gholston and Marcus Rush.

Developments of the last couple of hours are that Mark Hollis has issued a statement saying that MSU is looking into the matters:

http://spartannation.com/2011/10/18/statement-from-michigan-state-athletic-director-mark-hollis-on-the-hoopla-around/ 

And then Mark Dantonio did his usual Tuesday presser and said that they were, uh, looking into the matters:

http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/101811aab.html 

The news on both of those fronts is that MSU did not use the day to preemptively suspend Gholston for one game (which, by any reasonable account is inevitable), which is something I feared.  I had a bad feeling, that a fast announcement of a one-game suspension of Gholston might end the entire matter, cutting off debate about additional games for a Gholston suspension, and a suspension of Marcus Rush as well.

Now, a new Spartan strategy may be emerging:  Delay.  Put off the Notice/Response/Appeal/Et cetera timeline until such time as they can string it out so that their starters on defense can all be available for Wisconsin, and maybe even foul things off until Sparty hosts Minnesota in 17 days.

Many of you will have seen Adam Rittenberg's online column about the B1G protocols for unsportslike behavior investigations. 

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/36066/no-word-on-possible-gholston-discipline 

I confess, it threw me when I first read it.  Because I distinctly recall no such protocol when Jonas Mouton was suddenly and summarily suspended by the Conference, on a Thursday before a Saturday game.  Michigan did not appeal or object.  But I never thought that we could appeal or object.

Then it occurred to me; at the time of the Mouton supsension, the first of its kind that most of us could recall in the Conference, many of us (I know I did) commented that it was such a crappy ad hoc affair, that the Conference would have to set out some clear guidelines for future cases.  And in fact, I now think that the Conference Rules that Rittenberg pointed everybody to were rules that Delany cooked up in response to the observations about how irregular the Mouton suspension was.  That is, they post-date the Mouton suspension.

And they might now give Sparty a chance to delay and obfuscate things until Wisconsin and perhaps even Nebraska have passed.

Now this is even worse than an attempt by Dantonio to confine the damage to Gholston (and keep Marcus Rush on the field).  Dantonio and Hollis might be trying to foul off any player discipline to the week of Nebraska or even Minnesota.

This should only increase the public stink over this mess.  Call Jim Delany's office, and let him know about your concerns.

(847) 696-1010

(http://www.bigten.org/school-bio/big10-school-bio.html) 

SUSPEND MARCUS RUSH AND WILLIAM GHOLSTON.  NOW.

 

SamirCM

October 18th, 2011 at 4:09 PM ^

It sounds like the usual "checks in the mail" response, I'm not holding my breath on St. Dantonio doing anything proper. I expect slime. Green slime.

HermosaBlue

October 18th, 2011 at 7:07 PM ^

When Bill Clinton parsed the language to interpret the question "is there a relationship with Ms. Lewinsky" he was able to answer "no", because he was not, at that time, engaged in the act of fucking her.

This feels a lot like that.  This "is" an isolated incident, because, at the time of the alleged incident, Tom Gholston was not also engaged in any other personal fouls with intent to injure.

 

BluByYou

October 18th, 2011 at 5:24 PM ^

puked at Chris Speilman touting what an upstanding coach Dantonio is after the helmet twisting.  If true, why no benching and then again after the punch and before that the arm break attempt on Lewan.

rbgoblue

October 18th, 2011 at 4:16 PM ^

The solution is quite simple:

Players involved in an investigation should be suspended until the investigation is resolved.  That would provide a little urgency for MSU to move this process along, and would ultimately put the onus on the individual institutions to police and discipline their players, rather than handing cases over to the NCAA.

ChuckWood

October 18th, 2011 at 4:21 PM ^

Guilty until proven innocent?  That's not fair for players.  Because some are innocent. 

However, when someone like Gholston does what he did, an immediate action should take place.  The NCAA needs to stop pussy footing around and take action on factual events.

Feat of Clay

October 19th, 2011 at 11:44 AM ^

That's pretty how the NCAA operates and it has resulted in some bad, unfair outcomes for ahtletes.  So while I get the spirit of what you're suggesting, I couldn't endorse it.

That said, I would love to see it bite schools in the ass when they foot-drag or reveal things AFTER big games (or bowl games).  We definitely need something punitive in place.

Moleskyn

October 18th, 2011 at 4:18 PM ^

I believe it has already been stated that once a school has been notified, they have 3 days to respond (which would be Wednesday). After that, the B1G commish has 3 days to respond to that, if he wishes. So I don't think Sparty is going to be able to just wait this out until it's convenient for them.

rbgoblue

October 18th, 2011 at 4:19 PM ^

Honestly tho, the Wisconsin game seems like a lost cause to MSU.  No one in the B1G can match up with them.  The Nebraska game the following week holds much stronger ramifications for their 1 game lead in the legends division.

ijohnb

October 18th, 2011 at 7:54 PM ^

has problems on the O line, but I don't think they will necessarily get run out of town in this one without Gholston (their 8th leading tackler).  They have speed in the secondary and a nasty D Line.  That is why I don't understand why they would not just pull this off like a bandaid.  They are not getting off completely from these incidents, they should just take the medicine now and just use it for added motivation against Wisconsin.  The way they have played it, College Gameday is going to be a 2 hour documentary about State being dirty and not owning up.  Their whole approach to this has been same old Sparty if you ask me.  Remember Iowa and rushing Rucker to the Stadium in prison orange, how did that work out for them?  Just one huge distraction, and he was completely ineffective.  State is going to spiral downhill from here, and they have only their jacked up response to an obvious suspension to blame.  SOS, you can count on it every year, just give them a chance.

dothepose

October 18th, 2011 at 4:19 PM ^

How about next year we just win the game so we can not cry about this. I'm getting extremely sick of each thread coming up as something else about Gholston/Dirty Plays. We were not the better team and MSU's personal fouls kept us in it. We will get them next year when have a better team, until then its on to Purdue.

aanii

October 18th, 2011 at 5:52 PM ^

This is so ridiculous.  As if the Big Ten isn't aware of these things and our Coaching staff isn't doing precisely that.  I've never in my life seen a group of fans set out to lynch another teams players like folks here have this week.  and i'll tell you what, as someone outside of the state - no one else cares.  in fact, i polled people at my office here in KC about it and the general consensus was "you guys got your asses beat."  Not one person had a word to say about Gholston, let alone rush.  Just shrugs all around.  

It's football.  Gholston is not the first, nor will he be the last to throw a punch.  Rush committed a personal foul and was assessed 15 yards for it.  That's all that will ever happen to him in particular, and petitions to have him suspended are ludicrous.  What happens when Martin throws a QB down hard and he gets hurt?  will you all be calling Delaney to have HIM suspended?  These guys play with a lot of passion, and this game in particular gets everyone revved up.  Look at what Gallon did to #5.  Heck, #5 got his ass beat a few times.  I guarantee you MSU is putting a compilation of plays together as we whine about this that will show plenty of off the books behavior by both teams.  

The ony thing we should care about is the fact that we couldn't take advantage of the GIFTS their lack of control gave us.   We should have won that damned game despite being outplayed because of those PFs.  That is what pisses ME off.  If Lewan can shrug and walk away from that "punch" then so can I - and you should be able to as well.  I just don't get the whole "I can't wait to watch them lose to Wisconsin!" thing - like that's some solace to our loss.  who gives a shit about MSU losing to Wisconsin?  I care about MICHIGAN losing to MSU!!!  How will Wisky kicking their ass help us one little bit?  

I swear this place is in the midst of some serious mass delusion over the reality of the situation.  Gholston will probably be suspended, but Rush won't - and he shouldn't be.  And to suggest that a Big Ten Team goes out to deliberately injure players is silly.  It's just not true and deep down you know it.  Frankly, I wish all the Gholston nonsense would be locked up and the entire board would just move on to Purdue and focusing on what MICHIGAN needs to do to win 10 games.  

Section 1

October 18th, 2011 at 6:08 PM ^

Which is why I don't much care to discuss Gholston and Rush beyond, "suspend them."  If they are both gone for Wisconsin, and Wisconsin wins, all that anybody will remember out where you are in Kansas City is that Wisconsin won, MSU lost, and that both MSU and Michigan will be one-loss teams in the B1G, with MSU traveling to Nebraska, and Michigan hosting Purdue.

And how exactly do you propose I "focus" on what it takes to beat Purdue?  Should I, uh, spend extra time in the weight room?  Study my playbook?  Look at more game films?  You want me to pick up my intensity for game day?

I am going to be having a Bloody Mary on Saturday morning.  I don't think it is going to help my game-day performance.

But if you don't think that public outcry can -- just possibly -- incrementally help in a situation like this controversy with Gholston/Rush, you need to get out more.

BigBlue02

October 18th, 2011 at 6:10 PM ^

No one in KC cares because people don't care about Michigan State outside of east Lansing.

Also, if you don't know how Wisconsin beating their asses helps us out, you obviously dont know shot about football.

Also also, there is a huge, huge difference between a defensive lineman throwing a quarterback down legally and him getting injured and a defensive lineman suplexing a QB over his shoulder 3 seconds after he lets go of the ball (not to mention said defensive players coordinator saying that is what they are trying to do and they are glad it didn't get called more). One is a cheap shot, the other is a football play. I hope Cousins doesn't get taken out for the season on a cheap late hit....the irony flowing out of the MSU boards would be amazing.

wolverinenyc

October 18th, 2011 at 4:52 PM ^

I understand what you're saying. I want to just beat the hell out of Sparty as much as anybody.  But, win or lose no matter how lopsided, there is simply no place for this kind of behavior on the field. period. This isn't crying over spilled milk. this isn't sour grapes because we lost. Dirty play is just that, dirty. You should not have to put up with it because it is an intense rivalry. It should not define that rivalry.  I have a work friend who is an MSU alum and he is embarassed by how dirty they played. He said it before I did! Football is a tough physical game already. There is no need for the kind of PURPOSEFUL attempts to hurt another player that Gholston exhibited. He should not have finished the game and SHOULD be suspended for several. Blount was suspended for the remainder of his senior year from sucker-punching a player immediately following the game. Not during the game. You could even make the argument that Gholston's actions are worse because he did it in a game they had the upper hand in and continued to do it. Blount at least seemed like he lost his composure after a tough loss. It's not excusably but he paid handsomely for it. So should Gholston.

SameOldWolverines

October 18th, 2011 at 5:35 PM ^

Amen to that! And so should Roundtree and Lewan, I say. I'm glad you pointed out that this isn't sour grapes; this is a genuine outpouring of concern for the good of the game of football. Your selflessness is duly noted. I appreciate you taking the opportunity to make things right in college football. Send that video of Roundtree's thuggery and Lewan's blatant racism and dirty play to the B1G offices so that justice may be done.

It's very big of you to have so much genuine concern for college football over a team that isn't even your rival.

Tater

October 18th, 2011 at 4:20 PM ^

MSU made a big mistake talking trash about the physically toughest team in the conference.  Playing Wiscy is difficult even under normal circumstances.  MSUjust won its Super Bowl and followed it up by giving Wiscy locker room material; there is no other way for this to end for them but bad.

I think it would be great if they stonewalled and the suspensions took effect just in time for Nebraska.  Wiscy can beat them straight up this year with no help, and the refs will be watching for Sparty Shenanigans.  This game could go very sideways for Sparty.  

Too bad the B1G office is "seedless."  Gholston and Narduzzi deserve season-long suspensions.  It would be great if they got them, but they won't.  At this point, though, I will thankfully embrace anything that makes Sparty suffer.

StephenRKass

October 18th, 2011 at 5:08 PM ^

I like how you think. That was my thought as well . . . better for us if State plays Wisconsin at full strength, loses, and has multiple game suspensions that go into effect prior to Nebraska, etc.

Although, having said that, I want to see suspensions come down, and really don't care that much when, just as long as it happens.

snackyx

October 18th, 2011 at 4:20 PM ^

Glad to hear that Mark Hollis is "looking into the matter".  It will , no doubt, take a bit of time so he can look at all the camera angles and gather all the available still photographs that will aid MSU in making a sound decision.  I'm sure AD Hollis expects this process to be complete in about, oh say the week of the Minnesota game.  Acting on this matter before that would simply not be prudent.

It never changes with these clowns.  They just reek of MSU.

Maize and Blue…

October 18th, 2011 at 4:43 PM ^

Where is the president of the university.  Is this the way you want your university portrayed?  Apparently it is because MSU"s president has been absent after the Kampfer incident, after football beatdowns 1 & 2, and after the alleged rape involving Appling and Payne.

If MSC let this stuff go I would want her head on a platter.

Feat of Clay

October 19th, 2011 at 11:51 AM ^

I dunno about that. I expect the president to be involved behind the scenes (and she very likely might be--stressing how bad it is for MSU to get in the headlines for crap like this) but it would seem weird to me to have her comment in the press about disciplinary issues involving individual students.  Even well-known students. 

 

J.Swift

October 18th, 2011 at 4:20 PM ^

I just called and spoke with a rep in Delany's office.  Expressed my concern about the specific PFs by Gholston (punch, face mask twist) and Rush (body slam, after Robinson threw the pass).  She told that it is being discussed now.  I asked how soon it would be dealt with.  Reply, "soon".

They are listening.

Raoul

October 18th, 2011 at 4:24 PM ^

This is quite surprising. You had a legitimate chance to work Rosenberg into one of your posts, and you didn't do so. See: Michael Rosenberg: Michigan State should suspend William Gholston.

Also, I'm not sure which Rittenberg column you're referring to, but in this article he makes it pretty clear that MSU can't delay this as long as you claim they can:

The conference handbook states a school must submit a report to the commissioner on any potential sportsmanlike-conduct violations three business days after being notified. According to the timeline, Michigan State has until Wednesday to reply.

So even if MSU decides to do nothing, the Big Ten could issue a suspension as early as Thursday.

Section 1

October 18th, 2011 at 4:49 PM ^

Well played, sir!

Rosenberg and I appear to be fearful of the same thing; Dantonio and Hollis somehow playing out the procedural string until their guys are safe, timing-wise, for Wisconsin.  Not sure about Rosenberg, but I think that both he and I are a little vague on how long the process can go.

And I don't know if Rittenberg has it right, either.  Maybe he does.

But without knowing, I think this is very disconcerting.  There is no possible reason why any more time is needed for review, other than that the rules (which are probably created for cases in which there might be some real doubt) allow it to be strung out this far.

wolpherine2000

October 18th, 2011 at 4:22 PM ^

...whether handed down by MSU or Delaney is likely to only be one game no matter how much we want it to be more. And for MSU, it is more important that Gholston play against Divisional contenders Nebraska than this weekend at Wisky.

In other words, there is nothing to be gained by delaying.

Yinka Double Dare

October 18th, 2011 at 4:47 PM ^

I think if MSU gives him one game the conference probably will leave it alone (I can't think of them extending anyone's school-issued suspension before, not even the Robert Reynolds one where tacking at least a game on was absolutely warranted) but if they do not suspend him themselves I wouldn't be surprised to see the conference give him two.