Thoughts and questions about the team and OSU game

Submitted by Braylon1 on

Let me start by saying that I humbly approach this board w/ thoughts regarding the OSU game. There's a lot of talent that make up the members of this site and I appreciate everyone's contribution to the board. UofM fans are the most informed and knowledgeable fan base in the country. We're so far ahead of other fan bases in general in terms of fan contribution to blogs, media, statistical and X&O breakdowns. It's quite impressive. We can expect access to updated information regarding UM recruiting and game results within a short period. So, thank you.

1.) I was upset to some degree that the offense didn't run more zone blocking this season. The backs and OL ran it all last season, and we saw noticeable improvements last year. I understand it's not Jim's bread and butter, but it seemed like it should've been featured more given the OL make-up. Drake Johnson shined vs OSU last year, and it didn't seem like we took advantage of what worked vs their D last year at all on Saturday. Base blocking was too tall a task for this OL this season.

2.) What the hell is wrong w/ the defensive scheme Michigan ran vs OSU? Anything? Or, were Michigan's failures vs OSU strictly due to OSU exploiting UM's weaknesses? I lean towards the latter, but gd, how the hell do you stop these guys? I've become more in favor of having a mobile QB bc of the advantages the offense has in the running game.

3.) Was OSU more mentally prepared for the game this week?

4.) Something tells me that we're going to see a shift in OSU's dominance of the BIG East simply bc Harbaugh seems to be going after kids that aren't "Dave Brandon approved" if that makes any sense. Can't help but think that Michigan has lacked that mental edge that they had at times under Carr and Bo. There used to be a nastiness to this football program, a swagger, something very natural to the way the team played on game day. Seems like Harbaugh is going after kids that are mentally tough as well as physically talented. I saw improvements this year, but I expect a lot more in the future.

Anyway, I realize I'm ranting a bit. I'm just looking to share some thoughts and hear what you guys have to say. Thank you reading and I look forward to what you have to say.

Go Blue, forever!

Gofor2

November 30th, 2015 at 8:22 AM ^

You see a power shift coming in the BIG ??

Michigan just got its ass plowed for the 11 th time in 12 games, the worst defeat in almost 60 years by a team that has lost 4 fucking games in the last 4 years!

Moreover OSU didn't attack UM's weaknesses, I attacked UM directly at what was supposed to be the strength of the team, OSU ran the ball STRAIGHT DOWN UM's THROAT !!
UM's Oline was supposed to be its best unit, and probably is. Don't expect any big shifts in the power structure of the BIG. Crazy Jim is /has a team that is comprised of 3 top 5 recruiting classes, so there is not talent excuse, NONE. Obviously OSU is more talented, but not because of recruiting, it's because of coaching.
Reality is that Harbaugh's style of Offense will never be able to keep pace with Urban Meyers Offense. It will win 9-10 games a year, but when it comes up against a OSU quality defense it will not score enough points to beat OSU. Look at the games this year, averaging 1 TD a quarter will not beat a Urban Meyer team most of the time.
Reality is that a BIG 10 Title runs thru Columbus and almost always will, every now and then Dantonio will pull it off, but it will never be going thru ANn Arbor while Urban Meyer and Mark Dantonio are around. Simple as that.

Gofor2

November 30th, 2015 at 11:37 AM ^

like Crazy Jim himself. What fantasy world would anyone be worried about a guy who was just ass raped 42-13 ( and could have been worse).
I post in every thread to be sure that every reader and UM fan on here knows that OSU completely OWNS Michigan. That all your shit talk was just shit talk. That your dream coach just isn't good enough to ever beat Urban Meyer and OSU. That's why I do it, just want to be sure everyone gets the message that UM is right there with Illinois and Minn in terms of relevance. Another words, Not at all.

rockydude

November 30th, 2015 at 12:44 AM ^

Ok, I'll give a real answer, or my version of one. As regards number 4, I have also thought numerous times that we didn't match the other team's level of aggression or killer instinct, or whatever you want to call it. I'm not positive if it has been due to the type of players we have had or how our coaches have handled them. I do think that changed some this year, and will continue to do so until we have that nasty edge that was dormant for a while.

I think that it is part the Harbaugh approach and part the players he will attract. Can anyone imagine Peppers not playing with abandon.

I agree with you, that was a problem for a while, but I think that we're well on our way back, and as fans, this is going to be way more fun to watch than the bad old days.

rockydude

November 30th, 2015 at 12:56 AM ^

I don't mean just this game. I mean in a more macro sense over the last however many years I have felt like the other high level teams seemed more intense than us with frequency. I'm not sure how many other people feel this, but it just seems like we have been softer than I'd prefer, like we are more entitled or can sit on our reputation or something.

A Fan In Fargo

November 30th, 2015 at 2:03 AM ^

The last team I remember being intense and cocky was 2006. Them boys played that year. Not that I am physically or mentally capable of playing on a Michigan defense but I thought to myself man what I would give to be a safety or linebacker during that game to see Barret weaving through the d-line and into the second level. You cant tell me that one of them safeties doesn't get a clean stick or two on that guy. I would've been licking my chops seeing him come through there over and over. Even Elliot. Full 10 yard sprint reading the play and giving them punks a shoulder as wicked as I could right in the chest. They would've thought twice about coming up the gut every time after that. Man I'm getting pumped just typing about it. That's the guys you need. Play after play looking to knock and take the best players out of the game. Physically and mentally. The bad boys!

rpearce

November 30th, 2015 at 1:13 PM ^

My first post, but I visit the site almost every day.  I completely agree with Muttley.  I'm not an expert analyst, but what happenned to Morgan and Bolden around mid season?  Prior to this season, I thought the defense would be good and it's strength would be its interior linebacking.  They ended up being the biggest liability, especially Morgan.  He saw a lot of action as a true freshman.  Back then he seemed a little slow a foot but fairly instinctive and a good tackler.  For the last month or so he's been jumping in the wrong hole, doesn't seem to locate the ball on runs or passes, can't get off blocks, and can't tackle.  I can't remember ever seeing a solid player digress as steeply unless he is dealing with physical or personal problems. 

 

Fezzik

November 30th, 2015 at 4:01 PM ^

Watch other teams ILBs. They will often try to avoid blockers to make plays. Ours always made attempting to pop an OL first priority. Unless you meet the OL at or behind the line of scrimmage you need to make the play on the ball instead. Ours were not fast enough nor reacted fast enough to go toe to toe with the OL. They usually got themselves blocked by a pulling lineman who is already 3 yards downfield.

Braylon1

November 30th, 2015 at 12:52 AM ^

I'm just kind of surprised that Michigan took a step back vs OSU when they returned much of the team from last season. I don't want to think that Brady Hoke had the team more prepared for OSU than Harbaugh, but one might be inclined to think that's the case given the outcome of the game.

JOHNNAVARREISMYHERO

November 30th, 2015 at 1:06 AM ^

But here's the thing.  Hoke never had the team ready for any other team.  It became a complete joke in 2014.

Hoke only seemed to prepare for one game - that last one and even then still did enough stupid things to make sure to lose them.

 

DairyQueen

November 30th, 2015 at 1:26 PM ^

Agreed. Alabama does this all the time as well and it's fun to watch Saban lose his mind on the sidelines when they're only up 21-0 versus a cupcake.

I also felt OSU didn't take MSU very seriously in the first half or so, and just thought they would "inevitably" succeed because of the "defending national champs" status.

Lots of favorite-teams do this when facing major underdog teams.

CorkyCole

November 30th, 2015 at 1:24 AM ^

The problem with this argument is that even if you are right, Hoke clearly was unprepared for practically every other game on the schedule. He was so "Ohio" focused that I am not surprised at all that the OSU game was their best prepared game. He probably worked on preparing his team for The Game all season at least in some fashion of the sense. Hoke was very clear on the importance of that game, so again, that wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Take out "The Game," however, and it was clear practically every other game that the staff was out coached and not prepared to face lesser opponents. Harbaugh this season beat every opponent he was supposed to beat; sometimes it got a little too close for comfort (Minnesota & Indiana), but he also destroyed teams that were expected to be close calls (BYU & Northwestern).

This is the main reason I don't think we should focus on The Game so much in regards to how much the team actually improved this season.

Injuries played a part in the loss, but OSU played determined and was also the more talented team. You're looking at a program that has been building top 3 recruiting classes with the same head coach for the last handful of years vs a coach who maximizes talent with the best of them with a team he just inherited; he was forced to bandage up as many weak spots as possible until he is able to get his own guys in to run his team and develop. The team will continue to improve, and talent will become more even (especially depth) as Jim brings in his guys.

Pit2047

November 30th, 2015 at 2:04 AM ^

The problem is so did Ohio State. Remember last year and years prior when their would play well for like 90% of snaps and the give up a big play? This year they fixed that 10% and just play well. Their defense is right around top 5 in the county I believe and they have several high draft picks, ours really doesn't at this point. I mean just compare the two.

Lewis with his size and athleticism is probably a slot corner at the next level and a 2nd or 3rd round. Peppers can turn into a top 10 pick but he's still raw. Wilson is a 6th or 7th rounder maybe, Wormley (depending on how he tests at the combine) could be anywhere from late 1st to 5th. Henry is in the same boat as Wormley minus a round. No one else would get drafted right now.

Compare that to OSU. Bosa has a damn good chance at 1st overall. Washington is a late 1st or 2nd rounder, Darron Lee is a 2nd rounder, Von Bell is a 2nd or 3rd rounder, and Joshua Perry is a 2nd or 3rd rounder. That's 5 guys going in the top 3 rounds of the draft to our maybe 3 if I'm being generous, 4 if you want to include Peppers even though he's not eligible but then you have to include Apple, Conley and MicMillon giving them 8. OSU is freaking loaded and we are not right now, there is a reason they were a massive repeat favorite coming into the year and that would still look like a good bet if their coaches didn't forget how to game plan against MSU. They even have an additional 3 1st rounders (Elliot, Decker, Thomas), 3 2-3 rounders (Miller, Elflein, Jones and a 3-4 rounder (Vannett) on offense. That's 11.5 guys in the first 3 rounds out of 96 picks. That's some Alabama shit right there. We'll get there eventually but we've been in these guys' shadows for the past 15 years and that wasn't going to change in 1 year because Harbaugh. We finally have a coach that stack up toe to toe with theirs and now he has to build a program that can. This will take some time but I have full faith that Harbaugh will do it, which is more than I can say about the last 3 coaches.

Maize and Blue…

November 30th, 2015 at 8:15 AM ^

the previous week and were pissed off.  Then they took the offensive game plan Indiana gave them and used it to perfection the second half with much better players.  We can outscore Indiana, but not OSU at this time.

While we did return most of our players from a 5-7 team, OSU returned most of their players from a NC team. 

Padog

November 30th, 2015 at 8:42 AM ^

Very good response. Penn State doesn't have the dogs to do what Indiana did and Ohio State has better players than Indiana. People saying that we don't miss Ryan Glasgow are wrong. Glasgow not only blew up plays from the get go but he also provided rest for Hurst. Big players like DTs are more effective when playing in a platoon. The DL hid the LBs for most of the season, but now it is too thin to do that.




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

CoachBP6

November 30th, 2015 at 1:02 AM ^

1 - Harbaugh is a power & drive block guy that will seldom run zone unless he sees a distinct advantage in doing so. While I do believe the zone scheme would have benefitted this years O-Line, it would have also been a hinderance to mastering the power / drive / man blocking scheme. Don't worry though, bc once Michigan has the horses on the OL with mastery of the scheme, we're going to be a nightmare to deal with.

2- The defensive scheme against spread option teams has been downright terrible all year with the NW game being the exception. As soon as I noticed we were attempting to defend osu with the 3-3-5 I knew it was going to be an extremely rough outing. I think Durkin really overthought the game plan and his downright refusal to make adjustments killed any chance the defense had of slowing them down.

However, The injuries on our d-line this year (Mone / Mario / Glasgow) really hurt our chances of stopping osu and the lack of depth made things harder with the fast tempo.

OSU was very strong where Michigan was weak, and they exploited it with ease. There is only so much coaching can do. I do blame Durkin for not trying anything else or incorporating some elements of what MSU did against osu.

3) I do believe that Michigan being favored during the week & the bad loss to Michigan state gave them added motivation to beat UM bc Urban knew any chance of a playoff would only come by crushing UM and getting some help. I don't think OSU was more prepared by any means, they were just better suited to exploit our weaknesses.

4- Harbaugh is known for his ability to develop players, get the most out of players, and he instills a certain attitude that really gets players to perform at or above their potential.

The people bitching about 9-3 need to cool it. The performance this year gets the additional bowl practices that will help our younger players astronomically, as well as the spotlight of a solid bowl game in a state that is surrounded by football talent.

WE WILL BE BACK.




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

ijohnb

November 30th, 2015 at 8:46 AM ^

also think that MSU beating OSU took some wind out of the teams sails. They have been playing since the State game to get an opportunity to get the conference title or at least the title game. To have that chance go up in flames took something out of them, I believe. Even as just a fan, it was somewhat deflating. I was trying to be all "this is The Game, mofos!!!" so it doesn't matter but it was a hard game to get amped for after the results of the week before. It was evident in the crowd turnout(the infamous "red out") and the teams play. State got us twice this year, here's to hoping payback is a bitch for them when we have the chance.

Padog

November 30th, 2015 at 8:47 AM ^

Your first point is very well stated. The scheme the O-Line is learning is very difficult compared to zone scheme. However, it is also harder to stop when done well. With the extra bowl practices and 4/5 of the OL returning next year could be fun.




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

AZBlue

November 30th, 2015 at 1:03 AM ^

Again snowflakes...yada yada yada.....but I'll take a stab

1. Harbaugh runs a primarily man-blocking offense. Need to learn it eventually and since 4 of 5 starters are back next year no time like the present to get it installed. Our "fearless leader" noted that the transition might pose a larger issue than man thought. Point Brian.

2. Only thing wrong with our system ime was that we tried to break out a 3-3-5 to confuse OSU (which may have worked at first..) but it didn't hold up due to personnel or lack of reps. This was done to try to avoid what OSU was able to do to our base defense - ala Indiana - due to DL injuries and "limitations" of our current LB corps. The MSU defensive scheme was better suited to combat the OSU offense given they were unable or willing to throw in the conditions during their game.
3. I doubt it - but whether it was the loss to MSU or just the rivalry, OSU finally played a game to a level that everyone assumed they were capable all year long.
4. Harbaugh will make it tough on all teams once he gets his system and players in place ime. I doubt we will see a 10 of 12 victory streak vs. OSU in the near future, but could see come back to near a 50-50 proposition. The team is currently lacking in speed and/or talent at the LB and RB positions (and could always use more fast receivers) and may not have the OL (or at least the experience in the system on the OL) Coach H wants but is pretty well set in most other areas so the tide could change as early as next year given a QB (O'Korn or someone good enough to beat him out) as 2016 will be a heavily SR laden team.

treetown

November 30th, 2015 at 1:22 AM ^

"The team is currently lacking in speed and/or talent at the LB and RB positions" - I watched the game at the stadium so couldn't catch any replays but during the game it seems many times a Wolverine was at the hole but couldn't wrap up Elliot and got shed. Designing plays for Jabril Peppers as a RB makes sense but pretty much is an indictment of the lack of options. IF you look at the Stanford squads in comparison to see what Harbaugh is seeking, only Drake Johnson with his quickness could play HB/TB, everyone else would be in the FB role.

The other observation is that this game shows that Urban Meyer is not really that great a game coach. He might be terrific in recruiting but with this type of team, how did he not have a better plan against MSU?

I Just Blue Myself

November 30th, 2015 at 8:23 AM ^

You know, I thought OSU was crazy for not throwing the ball against MSU also. However, Ohio State actually threw the ball against MSU one more time than they threw it against us. I don't understand that after they proved they were going to run the ball down our throats why we didn't stack the box and make Barrett beat us with his arm. 

Whatever. The future is bright.

AZBlue

November 30th, 2015 at 1:41 AM ^

"Everyone thinks they are a special (unique) snowflake with their thoughts and opinions" (or something like that) = they should make their own thread to say the same thing slightly differently than others.

SInce we have had so many of these after games, "Snowflake" threads are created after each game - broken down by Offense, Defense, and coaching - for everyone to dump their random thoughts into so we dont have dozens of threads like this after each game.  Unfortunately these threads are quickly pushed off the front page and are difficult to find without the MGoApp.

Lou MacAdoo

November 30th, 2015 at 1:46 AM ^

They're saying that your post is something that's supposed to go into the snowflakes post that's created after the game. They created the snowflakes so everyone had a place to go to post their thoughts on the game instead of creating a bunch of board topics that all lead to the same conversations. I'm sure if you search for it you'll find more than enough user opinions regarding the questions you've posted here.

Braylon1

November 30th, 2015 at 1:55 AM ^

Thanks, guys. I gotcha. I'll get it corrected and will be sure to post elsewhere in the future.

Fwiw, I was so pissed about the outcome yesterday that it took me until now to bring up anything regarding The Game.

I've gotten a lot better. Hell, I couldn't talk about Michigan football for two weeks after the Rose Bowl in 2004.

UMForLife

November 30th, 2015 at 7:11 AM ^

I am with you. I couldn't watch anything or post anything about UM until today. I didn't watch any football or read any news except this blog.

We have ways to go given how well OSU and MSU has performed in the last few years. I hate saying that, but it is the truth. I so wanted a year where we beath them both and push MSU back to medocrity. But that did not happen. I am preparing for the worst with what they are going to do in bowl/playoff. Regardless how well both teams perform in the bowl games, I see that we will become the top team again in B1G. We already are a way better team than the last seven years.

That Sugar bowl winning team had some good players in it, but had holes. We caught OSU at the best time to beat them. We went on to win, but you can see that we are not going to be better which was evident 2012-2014. But, this team is different. It has bigger holes than that team. Running game really hurt this team in big games. We couldn't run the ball and control the clock against certain teams where our defenese needed a breather. Our OL is also not where it needs to be. Even in down years, we always had at least one lineman who is first rounder type. I can't imaging a first rounder this year from that Offensive Lineman.

But, I see a lot of improvement in this team. Rudock, Chesson and the secondary. They need better players, which will come in the near future.

Harbaugh is a competitor and he will make us the top team in B1G. I will have very high expectations for next year and I think Harbaugh can lead us to the promise land. I sure hope it happens next year. I so want us to be back to the top, MSU pushed back to the mediocrity and beating OSU 7 out of 10 times.

 

SC Wolverine

November 30th, 2015 at 3:08 AM ^

I left the Big House yesterday so dazed and bewildered that I hardly could speak for two hours (admittedly, this could also have been because I was pretty frozen -- I live in the South and don't deal with cold like that very often).  Thankfully, a shoot-out win by Michigan Hockey did revive my spirits.  And today, I think I can understand what happened with a clearer head.

Here's what happened: a vastly superior team that was highly motivated and better prepared steamrolled us.  Let's not kid ourselves -- Urbs has assembled the best team in the country.  They just didn't try hard enough or have enough character to give it their best until they suffered a stinging loss the week prior to us.  This is the same team that blew everyone away in the playoffs last year, except that most of their stars are a year older.  Thankfully, lots of those guys are leaving and it will be hard for Urbs to assemble a team quite like that one again.  With that start, here's my stab at your questions: 

1.  No.  Harbaugh is developing his system and it's year one.  You have to start sometime, and this was the year to start power running.  We should be thankful for this next season.

2.  I was horrified by both our scheme and our lack of adjustments.  But the bottom line is that our linebackers weren't good enough to maintain gap integrity against this offense.  You put Raekwon on our team and we may have won the game.  And the problem really wasn't the injury to Glasgow, although that hurt our depth.  The problem was on the perimeter, with our LB's simply unable to fill and tackle.  Over and over again.  

3.  OSU was clearly well prepared.  One has to wonder if Durkin interviewing at Maryland had a negative effect on our defensive plan.  Because it was just about a worst case scenario.

4.  No.  We are not OSU and do not want to be OSU.  Come on, guys!  Harbaugh will win the Michigan way and if we can shore up a couple of spots we will roll out a really, really good team next year.  Like everyone else, I am mainly concerned about the LBs and RBs.  The track record shows that Drevno will have the line making huge holes next year.  But will anyone be able to run through them?  If O'Korn works out, we should be able to pass very well, however.  And if we can improve our LB's our defense will be awesome.  I have no idea how we fix our LB's -- freshmen studs? -- but that's Harbaugh's job and he is good at his job.