The conference is down, but I wouldn't be surprised if the teams ralied a bit and actually had a good bowl season.
alternate headline: man does job
The conference is down, but I wouldn't be surprised if the teams ralied a bit and actually had a good bowl season.
Not having 2 teams in the BCS will help..
There will be some shuffling up of bowls due to the OSU situation.
When does bowl season not work out poorly for the B1G?
Definitely. As will some teams simply improving as they get through the Big 10 season. Last year's two BCS teams were pretty good - that Oregon victory was by the skin of their teeth, as was UM's over VT. The problem has been with the depth of the conference, but teams like NW, Wiscy, and PSU are frankly playing better than I had imagined, and even Minny looks like a dangerous squad. Sure, Nebraska looks overrated but it is all about matchups.
I'm not disagreeing the conference is down, but I'm also not sold that the #3 team in the Big 10 (which looks like MSU, UM, or Wiscy) wouldn't be able to handle the #3 in the SEC (which is what, Florida or Georgia) in a bowl game. Also, after USC and Oregon nobody in the Pac-12 scares me.
The Big 10 lacks the dominant teams at the top and that's why it looks so down; I do think the conference will play reasonably well this year.
Right now it's Georgia who also happens to be ranked #5 in the country. Considering MSU and UGA played an OT game last year and one team is better (Georgia) and one is worse (MSU) who do you like in that game?
The SEC may be top-heavy, but it's real heavy at the top with 5 teams in the top 10.
You are the kind of optimist that would believe that UM could lose a non-conference game to an FCS team and rebound to beat an SEC team in a bowl game played in that team's home state.
I see what you did there.
I agree on the lack of elite teams. Just look at the folks in the top ten right now. ND may have the worst offense of any top-ten ranked team in history, Stanford lost to WSU, and a number of others have struggled with unranked opposition. Really Alabama and Oregon are the only teams that have really shined to me. LSU is right up there, but has struggled a great deal on more than one occasion. Just an off year for football overall.
Lost to Washington, but still a valid point.
Regarding LSU, they gave up 22 points to Towson today....it's definitely not the same defense as last year
But it was "a tough, determined Towson team."
/the Ellerbe years
This. UM gave up 25 to Air Force and people were freaking out; LSU gives up 22 and everyone just figures it was LSU toying with them.
Outside of Alabama, there is nobody in the SEC who scares me. I truly believe that if UM had played LSU in the Jerryworld, it would have been much closer.
LSUs recent track record would suggest that the Towson game is an outlier.
Don't get it twisted. No one recognizes defense anymore. The Big12 and Pac12 don't play any. For a while there I was letting the media storyline about how the B1G is down and never coming back get to me, but no more. I agree that we will bounce back this season.
LSU is pretty meh, too. They let an FCS hang around with them today, and barely beat Auburn. I think Oregon will run the table in the PAC 12 and make the title game, but Saban will somehow craft a masterful game plan and completely shut down their offense. I swear that man has sold his soul for the amount of success he's had.
Alabama is, in my opinion, the only real elite team in the country. That's a junior NFL team.
At the top
• Mich loses to ND
• MSU loses to ND
• Nebraska loses to UCLA
• Wiscy loses to OrSt (Wiscy soon to fall to the middlings)
• Ohio escapes against Cal at home
Middling teams w/ a shot at their divisions due to weakness
• Purdue loses to ND
• Northwestern held serve and is 5-0.
Unthinkable at the beginning of the season,
but now it's not out of the realm of possibility
that a 40ish NW could squeak by Mich, MSU, & Neb clubs
that haven't looked particularly Top 25 worthy.
In the lower middle class
• Iowa loses to Iowa State and Central Mich
• PSU loses to Ohio-Athens
(OK, they could rebound & join the middlings)
• Minnesota also held serve at 4-0 OOC,
but they've already been exposed by Iowa,
and are soon to join the bottom-dwellers
• Illinois gets smoked by Lousiana Tech
• Indiana loses to Ball State
After watching the *best* teams play from each conference, it is clear that there is one clear best conference this season, the SEC only because they have Bama and LSU. All of the other teams are quite flawed and haven't faced challenging competition. The PAC 12 got lucky this year in that all of their wins over BCS does tended to be at home while last season they played a lot of those games away (Asu, Ucla, etc).
Honestly the Big 10 might be the 3rd best /deepest conference but all teams are middling. The PAC 12 would be a close 4th, Acc 5th, and the Big 12 is the clear second.
Watching the Big 12 games today, it's ludicrous to call them a clear second. No defense at all.
But two elite teams does not a great conference make. To extrapolate that the SEC is the best conf because Alabama and LSU is silly, but we'll all have to wait until the bowls to really sees that.
The SEC has FIVE teams ranked in the top 10.
Nothing about the Big 12 impressed my today. When teams are dropping 60+ points on each other, that's not a good sign. Honestly, if Baylor had picked off one pass or caused one turnoever against WVU, they would have won. I hated hearing people on Gameday talking up the offensive firepower they were seeing in the Big 12 while knocking teams playing defense like MSU and OSU. I'm not saying yesterday's game was magic, but watching WVU and Baylor play was equally offensive if you like to see teams at least try to stop each other.
I thought so too. To the pollsters it doesn't matter at all who you play, or how bad your defense is. You can play the weakest of cupcake schedules, put up 80 points a game and you stand out. It doesn't even matter if those cupcakes put up 73 points on you, so long as you put up 80. There is nothing to be gained for your season by playing good teams OOC. Maybe there's something to be gained from "exposure," the ADs bottom line, or some other intangible, hypothetical reason, but all of those are easily eclipsed by the benefits of going undefeated against 12 crappy schools. It gives you almost zero benefit for your season to play a tough schedule. Look at Boise. They've played absolutely nobody for the last 5 years and were consistantly ranked in the top 10. Even in the future with SOS being figured into the playoff formula it'll be a relatively useless stat because it'll likely only be used as a tiebreaker stat for the last few 2-3 loss teams to get in. If we win the B1G then we'll get in automatically and it wont matter if we played Alabama or Eastern to start the season.
Alabama is the only elite team, then maybe Oregon is after them. After that....?
LSU struggled with Towson
WVU can't play defense at all
Notre Dame doesn't have an offense
Georgia can't play defense
K State & South Carolina both seem solid but not elite
I still feel like the B1G is ours for the taking. The Big Ten sucks and we're a lot better than anyone is giving us credit for
We're a lot better than we get credit for if Denard decides to stop throwing picks. If he throws 5 picks every week, we'll be lucky to get bowl eligible.
Nobody is saying that suddenly Denard won't turn the ball over. It's more like, as long as we don't turn it over 60 times a game we should be fine.
I doubt we will see Denard turn the ball over again like he did against ND. All quarterbacks have really bad games once in a while. Hell, Peyton Manning threw three picks in one quarter a couple weeks ago.
That statement could be applied to virtually any QB in the country. Denard will not throw 5 INTs again,and his playmaking covers up a lot of sins of the offense.
I absolutely agree with this, in fact I was going to say the same thing until I saw your post. LSU, FSU, WVU, they are all a step below oregon, who is a step below bama
Than what we are given credit for? How do we know that? Based on what?
How so? The team is 2-2. They beat an unranked Air Force team by 6 at home (an Air Force team that proceeded to lose to an AWFUL UNLV team the next week) and a blowout win over new I-A member UMass.
Can they win the B1G? Sure . . the conference is a POS right now. But this team hasn't shown anything yet after a third of the season.
It's not a good sign when a loss (to ND) is what gives you hope.
that the reason the Big Ten had the lowest ranked teams, or was considered a second tier conference, was because the league had the most parity. For example Northwestern, widely considered to be in the bottom third of the conference historically speaking, could beat any team any given week, whereas the bottom third of the SEC could never upset their best teams. Now I think we just suck....
I too had a similar conclusion on the basis that the Big 10 had more depth than most conferences. Also, for years I have been debating the quality of our conference. This year, though, I am just embarrassed...
But Arizona is getting hammered again. Vince Lombardi couldn't fix that offense...:)
with a quarter to play. Zona's D is more the problem than their O.
It's deja vu all over again.
Arizona puts up 35 points and 545 yards on Oregon State, in their 4th game under RR. (Arizona was 4-8 last year.) Wisconsin put up 7 points and 207 yards on Oregon State this year. And we're moving to that MANBALL, Wisconsin, 1990s UCLA offense with Borges, right? (Not the 2002-2003 Borges Indiana offense, or the 2005-07 Borges Auburn offense, etc., etc.) Watching the good offensive teams today, did any West Coast offenses stand out to you?
You know what's really funny? That MANBALL is what Bama used to put 41 on us including 31 in the first half.
Remember Stanford last year? They were pretty damn good on offense...must have been the spread, eh? Oh wait.
And as the poster above said, Bama put 41 on us.
Wisconsin's offense sucks because Wisconsin's offense sucks...not because of their scheme. Remember RR in year one here? Can we conclude from that that his offensive system sucks too? It's all about having the right personnel to run what you run best...Wisky is struggling because they're weak at QB and not as good up front as they were a year ago.
The problem with Rich Rod is that you have to take the bad (defense) with the good (offense). They've given up 600+ yards twice in the first five games this season.
Oregon State was held to 10 points by Wisconsin, but dropped 38 on Zona last night.
Yeah, they should definitely get rid of their accomplished defensive coordinator after 5 games and one recruiting season.
I'm not saying that at all. Casteel has a good track record.
At some point, maybe we have to acknowledge that it's not the DC that's the problem. Shafer, Robinson, Casteel - that's three DCs in the past four seasons he's had, and all have fielded terrible defenses. And all three guys have pretty good career résumés. Maybe the fault actually lies with their boss (and perhaps, the position coaches he keeps hiring over and over).
If Rich Rod wants to be a championship coach, he's going to have to swallow his pride and recognize that he doesn't know how to handle the defensive side of the ball. He needs to leave his DC alone in all areas, including hiring of position coaches. I'm not sure if he is capable of accepting this.
Stanford won a BCS bowl last year with an offense similar to the one Borges will run. Alabama seems fine running a classic pro style offense.
Any offense will work in college with the right personnel and schemes - hell, Air Force can put up 30 points on virtually anyone and they run an offense that high school teams think is archaic. Yes, WVU dropped a bunch of points on Baylor - they also gave up 63 and its not like Baylor has ever fielded anything approximating a defense. And sure, Oregon State shut down Wisconsin, but they still only won by 3 points (And scored 10 themselves) with that crazy spread offense they run. Teams win and lose based on have a defined scheme and following it. RR is running his offense at Arizona and it works fine; on defense, Casteel is still installing his plays and it will take some time.
Glad you could confirm you are the pathetic human being I always knew you were :).
I feel like college football is down this year. Alabama is elite but it falls off after that, wouldn't surprise me if every team with exception to them ends up with 2 losses.
Oregon might run the table as well or at least have only one loss, but I agree that after Bama the dropoff is immense.
I think Georgia has the players to compete with Alabama in the SEC. UGA has as good a defense as LSU and a better offense.
Aaron Murray is the best quarterback in the SEC, UGA has 4 WRs who are very dependable, and 2 Freshmen RBs in Todd Gurley and Keith Marshall who each seem to get 100 yards per game.
On Defense, tonight was their first game at full strength with their All-American Safety and their starting middle linebacker returning from suspensions (plus, a saftey whose name is "Rambo" should be able to compete with the likes of Nick Saban). Tonight they were still ironing things out and many of the points Tennessee scored were off of turnovers and fantastic field position.
Just my two cents.
I very much agree with this sentiment, at least as far as anyone can really "compete" with Alabama. I do not think LSU is anywhere near as talented right now as people are giving them credit for (many more deficiences on offense than defense). Georgia has a lot of skill and Aaron Murray is showing great development as a QB. If they can forego the almost-FSU-like guaranteed one game "Derp", I think they will be seeing Alabama in the SEC championship game. According to Lou Holtz, however, South Carolina is going to beat Alabama . . . so I guess we'll just see about that that one.
don't look now, but Oregon is struggling with Wazoo. 23-19 at the half. And Arizona leads #18 OR St 21-17 midway through the 3rd
so basically, fuck texas
The SEC will always be overrated compared to the hype ESPN gives them, but I'd say this year they can actually back it up to an extent. Alabama is a juggernaut, and LSU could go head to head with any other team in the country. Georgia looks good, and South Carolina and Florida are alright too despite some less than stellar outings.
Also can you explain to me again how the Big 12 is "good?" They may not be as bad as the B1G, but that's not saying much. They have no elite teams whatsover. I'd say they're equivalent to the Pac-10 minus Oregon.
Although I do agree Geno Smith is going to win the Heisman.
How did Okie State get robbed?
Brent over dramatizes everything - not just games that really don't matter
We should just throw the rankings out, so many unranked teams are beating the ranked teams. And the ranked teams that do manage to win are doing it in an unflattering fashion. Both Texas and Georgia barely pulled it off today against unranked opponents. These "upsets" have become commonplace this season.
are unranked, I think they are both pretty good teams. Both will be bowling and both could pull a big shocker at some point. Close games happen sometimes, even to good teams.
Ole Miss was beaten 66-31 by Texas 2 weeks ago, yet seemed to physically and athleticaly hang with Alabama for a good portion of that game. It happens.
to pick against the spread.
Taylor Martinez blows. Also, he can't run as well as Denard ..so there's that ...I'm just going to hope I missed your sarcasm
Have you watched Martinez this year? Martinez has completed 68% of his passes and has an 11 to 1 TD:INT ratio. He's averaging 8.75 YPA. Yeah, his throwing motion is weird, but he gets the ball to his receivers. As for whether he's better or worse a runner than Denard, I don't know, but he seems to know when to tuck and run more often. Right now I think he looks vastly improved.
TMart looks like every pass over ten yards is a struggle. Denard can throw, he just makes bad choices.
offenses and the up tempo offensive attack teams employ. I think it robs defenses of the opportunity to be creative and situational substitute. Most teams have to revert to a base defense against spread/tempo teams. I think the offenses run today make teams look better than they really are physically.
The BIG is however noticeably slower all over the field and we don't seem to have many elite receivers or throwers. Thus our offenses are not very 'dangerous' or 'explosive'.
Well, we won't rob defenses of these opportunities. Even down two scores with five minutes left, we will huddle and slowly proceed to our next play. (Yes, the tempo from the Notre Dame game is still killing me.)
We've learned that Purdue leads the race to the Big Ten title game without playing a game.
They're winless in a whopping THREE GAMES!
I'm guessing you didn't take any advanced statistics classes.
The new unis look like ass on every team that wears them.
Accurate and astute observation. I concur.
What I learned:
BIG TEEEEENNNN (maniacal laughter at Illinois giving up 52 points to a WAC school).
Although cumulative conference records don't tell you much of anything about how well teams within the conference are actually playing as teams, it should be noted that, whatever malaise the Big Ten appears to be under, our conference does have the second-best cumulative record (0.684 winning percentage, compared to the SEC at 0.677 or the Pac-12 at 0.630) of the conferences mentioned by the OP.
As for a summary look at conference offensive stats just for kicks, the Big Ten has collectively put up at least comparable rushing numbers when put next to the Big 12 and Pac-12, and marginally better numbers than the SEC. As for passing, after five games, there would be plenty of teams across conferences whose numbers are basically within 10-15 yards of one another, so really the Big Ten is somehow managing to put up some decent numbers despite looking bad doing it.
Thanks for the perspective. I do think the reasone everyone is so down on the Big Ten is that the traditional powers in the conference have struggled. Eveyone sees Michigan, Ohio, Penn State, Wisc. getting beat or barely slipping by opponents. Our perception of conferences and their strenghts are mostly based upon what we see the traditional powers doing.
I hate it when people paint out worthless stats when discussing football. anybody who watches a large amount of football and isnt a homer can see with just their eyes that the big 10 sucks this year
I would agree that the Big Ten is doing everything possible to tank the eye test to date this season (and succeeding in some important respects, if that's how you judge it), but going back to looking at some of the offensive stats at least, here are some select conference averages:
|CONFERENCE||YDS||YDS/G||PASS||P YDS/G||RUSH||R YDS/G||PTS||PTS/G|
So, for the most part, they are reasonably similar, with the Big XII averaging more yards per game (everyone is shocked there after Baylor-WVU, right?), but the Pac-12 averaging the most total passing yards and the Big Ten average the most total rushing yards (but the Big XII averaging the most of both per game). Keep in mind, of course, that what goes on in the Big XII comes at a price - this is the most anemic conference of these four when looking at defensive statistics. That, and they also have the lowest denominator for computing averages (as "The Other Big Ten" is not a good name for a conference).
I'm starting to think its really just a down year all together. I'm sorry but LSU didn't look like a top 25 team yesterday. It should be an interesting remainder of the year. I feel like the team I know the least about is Michigan.
I wouldn't go so far as to say NOT a top 25 team, but they certainly didn't look like a top 10 team to me. We cannot expect top ranked teams to have the hammer down at ALL times (let down games, sluggish starts, etc.), but I expected more from LSU against an FCS team.
That's reasonable. It's pretty obvious that Alabama is heads and toes above everyone including Oregon.
UofM: I mean we have barely put together two quarters of football let alone four. If we execute and put it to Purdue chicken farmers, that could give us momentum heading into Illinois. Gotta take it one game at a time and improve week by week.
It's harder to dominate now then ever. Kids regularly play on TV no matter which school they choose. With the power of internet, they can check out schools outside of their locale without ever getting on a plane. Plus, there is little danger with sophisticated scouting that they'll be overlooked when the pros come calling.
I think it's generally more balanced FBS wide.
I think the OP has a generous assessment. I don't know if I'd call any of the Big Ten teams "Elite." A few are okay, and the rest... perhaps worse that the better mac teams.
I meant in the NCAA. The B1G is 0 for 11 for Elite teams
1. Bama and Oregon appear to be a lot better than everyone else. It's sad commentary, though, that both teams cheated and/or loopholed their way to dominant collections of talent.
2. The SEC isn't the juggernaut everyone thinks it is. Simliar to the Big Ten, almost every team in it has a "fatal flaw." They are still probably the best conference, but not by much.
3. The Pac 12 is looking extremely good.
4. I'll put the Big Ten fourth this year, after SEC, Pac 12, and Big 12.
5. Does anyone really think LSU has a prayer of beating Bama this year? I don't.
6. Bring it on, Sparty.
Sees Les Miles still coaches for LSU-->LSU has the chance to win/lose anything in spectacular fashion
Maybe it's just me, but I do not understand the hype with the Big 12 right now. When you only rush 3 guys over 60% of the time, what do you expect to happen defensively?
Louisiana-Monroe and Louisiana Tech are both playing really well. Tech doesn't seem to play D but when you play LSU, it doesn't seem like you need much
Dave Brandon: don't ever schedule a team that runs the Air Raid.
Al Borges taking down a chocolate shake after a hard days work.
1. The B1G has lots of parity in it. No one as of now is a clear favorite to win either division seeing how Michigan hasn't played yet. The Mich-Purdue game should tell us a lot.
2. No one in this conference is elite and we have no one that is good enough to compete in the rose rowl.
3. The B1G will probably have their worst bowl season ever this year.
4. Don't sleep on Iowa.Wiseman punished the Gophers on the ground.