These celebration penalties are ridiculous
The NCAA has not had a good couple of weeks.
How hard is it to give the ball to the referee after you score? Is this some sort of OSU thing that, as Gee put it, they aren't properly aprised of the rule?
He's a college kid who just scored to bring them within 2 with a minute and a half left in a bowl game.
They're about to get mobbed by teammates and the ref isn't anywhere near them! Sometimes it's not possible. Let them celebrate and have a certain amount of time to get the ball back, it shouldn't be that they have to give it right to them.
The call on the K State guy was absurd. Especially in such an important part of the game. It would be different if he dougied, but all he did was salute. Awful call.
throwing the flag after that touchdown by k state was a simple case of the referees playing a part in determining the outcome of that football game.
as a fan, that is the LAST thing i want to see.
i feel sorry for the wildcats. Terrible call
Unless the kid goes over and takes a pantomimed dump in the endzone, you don't throw a flag in that situation. Yell at the kid if you want, but don't decide a game with a penalty like that.
Must resist urge to neg...
to bring attention to himself. Isn't that the purpose of the rule.
If Michigan scored on you, threw out their palms in the endzone to reveal "Go" and "Blue" in each hand at your crowd. OSU won anyway, so quit bitching about it already.
+1 because someone bizarrely negged you.
and coherent point. I concur.
theyre going to start flagging people for doing anything other than putting their head down and giving the ball the ref. NO SMILING! YOU THINK THIS IS A GAME??
Any issue you have should be with the rule, not the referee. The rule states that unsportsmanlike conduct occurs during " Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player attempts to focus attention upon himself". Pretty straightforward. The call was spot on.
How does a salute count as a "delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act"?
That was the best bowl game of the season so far, outside of maybe the Pizza Bowl, and the lasting memory of it will be that call. No matter whose fault it is, that was terrible.
OK, I agree that it sucks when these calls affect the game, but this is either on the coaches for not properly instructing your players how to handle themselves after a touchdown, or the player for disregarding those rules. When I played football, every player on our team would hand the ball to the ref after the touchdown, run to the sideline, and immediately get congratulated by the entire team. Is that not enough???
Watch what Michigan players do when they score. They don't salute the crowd, they don't flash any signs, the very first thing they do is hand the ball to the ref and celebrate with each other on the way to the sideline.
It's a tough way to lose a game (even though I think Syracuse played the better game and probably would have won anyway) but that celebration was completely unnecessary and he should have known better.
You're exactly right. Every player knows what to do after they score a touchdown. They have meetings/workshops about it in the off season. This time "I didn't know" won't suffice.
I agree that the player made a mistake, but in the heat of the momeny sometimes kids do things that violate the letter of the law but not the spirit. If he had coordinated some celebration with his teammates or pulled out a sharpie, then I totally get it. But if you just scored on a nice catch-and-run to tie the game at the end of a back-and-forth bowl game and saluted some fans, I don't see how that deserves a flag when a 2-point conversion is on the way. I totally understand why the ref had to throw the flag, but given the NCAA's recent history at missing the forest from the trees on issues like player payments and recruiting violations, to hold "true" to their guns on stuff like this just seems myopic.
Why does heat of the moment matter? If in the heat of the moment, the left tackle jumps offside on a crucial play, that will still get a flag. A big part of being a good football player is being disciplined, and if a player runs over and hands the ref the ball after ever TD, practice or game, he'll never get flagged. If the heat of the moment causes him to lose his focus and commit a penalty, it should get flagged.
Many, many times, the most disciplined team wins the game.
I know this is an old school and super boring approach, but it's the truth.
Jumping offsides is easy to see, as well as being a cut and dry penalty. This "excessive celebration" issue is a lot more vague. Which is obvious considering how irregularly it's enforced. It all seems to be a judgement call on the part of the official. That call, in that situation, for that event should not have been made. Had he done it (or anything else) to the opposing player I would've agreed with it. But he didn't. It was totally harmless, and seemed incredibly ticky-tack. How many similar actions were let go during the course of that very game? I'm pretty sure I saw a spiked ball or two during the course of the game.
I've seen plenty of instances where our players celebrate and do more than simply hand the ball to the referee,
Capital One Bowl 2008
Multiple mock gator chomps from several players and a cut throat by Arrington stick out for me.
Even in more recent memory, Tate pointed to the crowd, etc. after his TD run vs. Notre Dame in 2009. And even though he eventually did hand the ball to the referee, Greg Matthews ran around for a bit after he scored the winning TD in that game.
Those both could surely be conceived as "drawing attention to oneself, excessive, or whatever" according to the rule.
A salute to the crowd cost me $100. Thanks refs for making football no fun at all.
That, and an assumption they'd get the 2 point conversion, win in overtime, AND cover.
Flagged for bringing attention to yourself? I'm pretty sure that you already have all the attention in the stadium after scoring...
Tennessee player just saluted, danced after scoring a TD and no flag. Consistency at it's finest.
The Tenn player's dance in the endzone was much more of a celebration than the KSU receiver. It's unfortunate to see such a ticky-tack call - one that's not evenly enforced - cost a team a shot at tying up the game.
the points get taken off the board and the ball placed at the 15.
I believe the points only come off the board if you do something prior to crossing the goal line. Example - The Okie State guy running the length of the goal line before entering the end zone or someone pointing to the crowd before the end zone.
It would benefit the NCAA to revise that rule in the offseason to something a little less constricting than "calling attention to oneself".
I didn't see the celebration penalty, but I did catch the very end of the game when the Syracuse coach got the Gatorade bath. How is that NOT a penalty? Could it be that the NCAA likes Gatorade sponsoring their games and doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds it? Hypocrisy at it's finest. What's worse, a player celebrating a touchdown, or a pre-meditated celebration where ice and gatorade ends up on the field? I wish they would penalize that gatorade bath crap and put an end to it. It was fun for a few years (not really) but now it's just lame.
Yeah, and a player should get suspended for the next game if they talk about the win on their Twitter.
On second thought, anything after the game is over should be OK.
LeGarrette Blount approves.
an absurd and overbearing rule.
it was still a terrible call, not just accurate enforcement of a terrible rule. i did see this live, and it was none of "delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed." in fact it was immediate, moderate, brief, and spontaneous.
But unnecessary. I wouldn't want a Michigan player doing it.
I think most people would agree that post-touchdown celebrations ala the U in the 80s/90s is probably not acceptable in college football...and, while I don't have a problem with the intent of the celebration rule, I do think: 1) the written letter of the rule is ambiguous and relies on the referee to make a subjective interpretation; and, 2) the subjective interpretation is not evenly shared by all referees (even if they are in the same conference - the pin strip bowl and music city bowl both have B1G refs).
I'm not sure how you can draw up a celebration rule that clearly identifies what you can and cannot do post-touchdown - it would be silly to list out every possible activity on the "yay" side and every activity on the "nay" side. However, there is an obvious discrepency in the way that the powers-that-be interpret the rule; comparing the KSU and Tenn post-TD celebrations is quite telling.
If you are going to have a no celebration rule, then it needs to be consistently penalized, and "celebration" should be uniformly interpreted by all referees.
the Music City Bowl both have B1G refs."
Funny, those seem to be the two worst officiated bowl games I've seen thus far.
Was a joke. CCHA refs still suck out loud.
Starting a thread that isn't about Tate or 'CC'?? Seriously, dude.
Dudes/ettes, fuck this. I've been against the rule from jump street and this year's "increased focus" has only made me dig further into that opinion. So what if a guy salutes the crowd in the ARMED FORCES BOWL? There are many reasons why I loathe the idea let alone the rule, the title of this post being the biggest, but there's just no way to apply the rule consistently.
The NCAA will take a hard line against something that lasted--literally, less than 2 seconds--yet they'll pussyfoot around Cam Newton and the OSU-five?
The fact that America was founded by Puritans doesn't mean we still need to act like those assholes.
Whatevs, I'm only annoyed until some bullshit like that costs M something I like. Yeah, deliberately vague; just like the rule.
FYI, it wasn't the Armed Forces Bowl, it was the Pinstripe something or other Bowl.
This totally puts a downer on the internet badass parade I wad throwing for myself. You piss me off second version of Wolv in Los Angeles [please, prounce that with a Chicano accent]. Joo peece me off!
Regardless, my sermon on the jabon box stands...