Andre the Giant.
at least it's not just us?
Andre the Giant.
would be a whole hell of a lot shorter than the list of people who had optimal bodies for their position and ended up dominant.
It's tough because Knight and Parker are NSD decisions. We'll see what happens. I don't think we have any more big recruiting weekends coming up. So now we wait
but i'd take this guy: http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=7632
This kid is worse than Vinopal!!
i wonder if we can retroactively pull his scholarship and give it to dillon baxter, who clearly deserves it more.
When I first heard of Vinopal committing and looking at his numbers, I immediately thought of Jim Leonhard. The starting safety for the NYJ at 5'8" 185 lbs. The kid walked on at Wiscy and turned into an NFL starter. I'm not concerned with "stubby arms or short legs."
Obviously I'm not saying Vinopal will be Leonhard, but I actually want to see this kid at Michigan and don't want to see him pushed away for another commit.
I'm not concerned with "stubby arms or short legs."
thankfully, neither is my girlfriend.
At least it's just your arms and legs! :)
Aggressively, relentlessly, savagely defend this coaching staff and this incoming class from all who would tear them down!
I can't wait for the Spring game!
The frequent bashing of Vinopal drives me nuts. Safety has been THE worst performing position at Michigan in the past 15 years and we want to turn this guy away? A guy who is a natural safety (unlike most of the position-switchers we've used for years). He's a legit 5'11" with legit 4.5 speed. He was all-state in Ohio. He's smart and hard working. Sure, let's show him the door because we saw a picture of him where it looked like his arms were slightly short. Geez.....
We need all the safeties we can get. I don't know why RR said 26 is the limit and not 28, but I also know that he said 25 was the limit three weeks ago. It will all work out without having to yank Ray's scholarship - just enjoy the ride.
And why don't guys like Jones or Williamson get the same treatment in the forums? I like having Jones as an insurance policy and long term project but he's our 4th string QB or at best MIGHT switch to a totally unfamiliar position and beat out about ten other guys for PT. Who cares? Let's celebrate who wants to help revive this program!
I agree with you completely. Let's be positive.
The 2008 and 2009 seasons have been hard on the soul. Let's have some positivity and optimism when the games are far in the future.
"AC1997;" I'm under the opinion that RR's limit of 25 last week 26 this week and who knows what # next week is to get the last few high profile recruits we're in on to get on board sooner rather than later so we can shore up this recruiting class before NSD; if at all possible.
As for all the others worrying about #'s I seriously doubt we have anything to worry about in the event Dorsey, Parker, and Baxter all wanted to commit; as we'd find room one way or another without having to leave anyone on the outside looking in. I'm also of the opinion that in the event someone was forced to greyshirt that tidbit would have been fully disclosed to them @ the time of their offer and/or commitment by the staff.
Based on ratings, Vinopal and Jones should probably be the #4 players at their positions (barring any commitments).
So would you rather have a 4th-string QB or a 4th-string safety? I'll take the 4th-string QB first.
On top of that, Denard Robinson is probably headed for a different position in 2011. So we'd better hope that Jones can be a #3 quarterback.
No matter what you may or may not think of the recruit, the truth is it doesn't matter. Rich Rod and staff have made an offer for these kids to get an education at the University of Michigan while playing some football. Once they accept, it is a done deal. It is an honor to be accepted into the University and it is a priviledge to put on the maize and blue. To all commits, welcome, and we, like our coaches believe you will do our school proud both on and off the field.
Wouldn't telling a kid who wore a Michigan sweathsirt at a team function IN OHIO thanks, but no thanks, weeks before NSD pretty much burn any ties with his program? (In addition to being a shitty thing to do.) Isn't Cardinal Mooney a pretty good program that turns out players? I am not a big follower of recruiting so I could be missing something here. The above are honest questions, but it seems like good reasons why not to hose Ray Vinopal over. (In addition to common decency.)
"The Fannman;" You are correct in Mooney being a premier football program in the state of Ohio. Mooney is currently tied with Cincinnati Archbishop Moeller for the most D3 Football Titles and only trail D1 Cleveland St. Ignatius by 3 titles for the program with the most titles overall in the state of Ohio.
Mooney's Title Years:
(2009, 06, 04, 87, 82, 80, 73)
I'm not in Mich, but following the media suggests that jg2112's comment should be spraypainted all over I-94:
Notice the number of de-commits this year, when his program and recruiting philosophy has been in place?
Right on. Rip. Shit. Up.
What exactly is RR's recruiting philosophy? (asking in a non-sarcastic manner). It seems a bit scattershot to me. He started early on the offensive side of the ball, bringing us many WRs (to the complaints of many). Then, when the existing defense revealed itself to be terrible, he switched the emphasis entirely...almost like he is sticking his fingers into a crumbling dyke. It seems that RR isn't ahead of the game, but is behind and scrambling to fix the problems he noticed too late.
Of course, it's an imprecise art, but I worry when a number of our recruits were targeted by non-BCS schools only (star-rankings aside). I hope it works out well, I don't see a "philosophy" that gives me comfort.
It seems that offensive players tend to commit before defensive guys. I've heard it said before, and it seems to be true for the most part.
That's partly because offensive players develop sooner than defensive guys and, therefore, get offered sooner.
A big part of playing defense is understanding the game, aligning properly, diagnosing plays quickly, etc. Sophomore players tend not to have enough experience to do those things extremely well.
Meanwhile, running backs and, to a lesser extent, receivers are very instinctual positions. If you have "It", you have "It" as a sophomore or a junior. A lot of good quarterbacks have quarterback coaches from a young age. When's the last time you saw a middle linebacker have a middle linebacker coach in seventh grade?
I appreciate the explanation, even if you were 'splainin' a point I was trying to make. Thanks. +1
Ray Vinopal has short little alligator arms and stubbly little legs. Stubby arms and stubby legs. Both will limit his range and effectiveness.
A defensive player's arm reach is very very important. That is why scouts often comment on the wingspan of a player. That is often the difference between a play being made and a play being missed.
Vinopal was okay as a throw-in if we were running out of committable "elite prospects" on our board. But now with Parker and Knight still on the board, Vinopal has to go. No room for career backups.
Is Ray going out for the basketball team too?
Then I dont give two shits about his wingspan.
This thread is so full of fail it brought a tear to my eye.
It's 25, as Drake's not going to cut it. It might even be 24, as Kinard might not cut it either (notice that we have 5 DE/Q's committed right now...).
It seems as though the last scholarship (#26) will go to either Sean Parker or Rashad Knight. Then if another opens up, there are several positions we are still hitting hard, and a couple of prospects that we might be able to make room for:
#1) OL: Nichols. He's listed on rivals big board right now. Big high school TE. Might be worth a schollie!?
#2) NT: Beachum/Thornton. Haven't heard from Beachum in a long time. It sure would be nice to land a legit NT.
#3) ILB: Dorsey/Thomas/Mehrer *If Jake Ryan is being recruited as an ILB...then he beat out these three for the ILB schollie.
#4) Studs: Baxter-SB, Black-DE *EDIT - sounds like we're just not that into grimes.
QB: Gardner, Jones (?)
WR: Miller, Robinson
WR: Jackson, Williamson
DT: Ash, Talbott
DE: Wilkins, Paskorz
Q: Kinard, Rogers
FS: Robinson, Johnson
SS: *Parker/Knight, Vinopal
CB: Christian, Talbott
Well hello again.
Come back when you can't stay as long...
Folks, I'm a double alum and a diehard fan. I live out west, but follow UM football daily. Still, I need someone smarter and more informed than me to explain how one can feel good about this 2010 recruiting class. All we've heard for the past 2 years is how we need talent. And now we follow it up with what's probably our worst recruiting class in two decades. It used to be that our average recruit was a 4 star. Now it's a 3 star. And that's no way to compete for conference, much less national, championships. Especially with glaring needs at almost every position. I know there are gems in there, like Gardner (God bless him for enrolling early). But is there anything to suggest that we can feel good about the direction of this team, as a whole, from a recruiting standpoint?
All we've heard for the past 2 years is how we need talent. And now we follow it up with what's probably our worst recruiting class in two decades.
Scout has the 2010 class at #9. That is higher than Scout's final rankings of Michigan's 2002, 2007, and 2009 classes, and equals the 2006 class.
Just stop it.
Last year RR brought in the best players from Michigan (BWC), Ohio (Turner), Arizona (Roh and Lewan) and NJ (LaLota). That's leaving out Gallon, Toussaint, Emilien, V. Smith, Je'Ron Stokes, and Quentin Washington. And, uh, remember Tate Forcier and Denard Robinson?
This year - he's pulled 8 of the top 75 players in Ohio, he's pulled the #3 CB in the country (Cullen Christian), the NUMBER ONE DUAL THREAT QB, a center absolutely coveted by Florida State, wide receivers being recruited by Florida (R. Miller) and LSU (Jeremy Jackson), a top level DT (Dick Ash), the punter they wanted (Hagerup), and top level safeties in tow (M-Rob, Carvin, Vinopal) and on deck (Sean Parker).
So yeah, if you don't see the positivity, you're not looking at the class. At all. The class is NINTH BEST IN THE COUNTRY. Obviously your standards are a little bit exacting.
This is a great recruiting class. I think people get too wrapped up in the number of stars the recruit has. Keep in mind players like Mike Hart, Braylon Edwards, AJ Hawk and James Lauranitis were all 3 star recruits and look how they performed.
Mike Hart again as the unheralded recruit???
#2 player in the STATE of New York. Offers from WVU, Syracuse, Miami (FL), UVA, MSU.
A.J. Hawk had an offer from little ol Penn State.
Lauranitis had offers from Notre Dame and UCLA.
Enough of that nonsense. The point raised over and over again about our low-star players is that a number of our commits weren't offered (or in some cases, weren't even looked at) by a single BCS program. They may indeed pan out; but don't pretend that you wouldn't rather have a highly regarded recruit.
I'm not taking issue with the class of '09 and I don't deny that underrated recruits can and often do turn out to be great. Still, I am grateful for the question I posed and the enlightening discussion it generated. I clearly need to be reading more Scout and less of everything and everyone else that has our '10 class in the cellar. There is another minor issue here. Is our coaching staff capable of making the most of this awe-inspiring, 3 star talent, so underwhelmingly recruited by other bcs schools? If mistakes, dismal second halves and the downward trajectory of last season is any indication, how can the answer to that question be a 'yes'? Finally, are those of us that point out the obvious 'full of fail' because we expect the leaders and the best to act like the leaders and the best? Or is it the serial apologists that are full of fail because they perpetuate our beloved program's single biggest flaw: a culture of utter complacency? Don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for the rah, rah, rah. It's called football Saturdays. But it strikes me that, given the current state of the program, the offseason (especially the recruiting season) ought to be a time for some critical self reflection. Thoughts?