So Jake Ryan makes 26 recruits for the Class of 2010 which I was under the impression was the max we could sign. Mind you the 26 includes Drake who everyone seems to confirm won't make it through UofM admissions. So do we only have one spot left for one of the two safeties left on the board?
That's 26 for Class of 2010 - Now what?
Well, Drake probably does not come so that leaves a spot for hopefully Parker. There could always be a decommit or two.
Now we just let it play out.
Kid has the legs of someone 5'6". He is our lowest rated prospect on Rivals. Only a 2 Star. He will be a career backup. Time to give him the Barnes treatment and add Parker and Knight.
Death by Banhammer that is.
Kid has the posting ability of em0. He has the lowest total mgpoints on mgoblog. Only -250 or so. He will just add useless cracks about recruits he has never met or seen play based on silly star rankings from people who have never seen him play either. Time to give him the Ban-hammer treatment and add anybody else with a working brain.
Is that sand still itching?
We need to know about *his* legs! We already got your take on Vinopal's legs. Like several times. There are a whole bunch of other recruits and commits about whose legs we know nothing! NOTHING! Rivals, Scout, ESPN...none of them have a legs section. Not even a general proportionality section.
So please go watch some recruiting videos and get us some new figures. I propose the following:
x = the height of the man whose torso the player has.
y = the height of the man whose legs the player has.
x/y = the legs proportion index. For LPI numbers much less than .95 or so we will start getting worried about the recruit. [note: we may need a stiff hips variable too; I'll leave that up to you]
Hey, what's ET short for?
Cause he's got little legs!
...it is time to give the Heisman treatment to Vinopal.
why do you hate vinopal? Did he date your daughter or something? leave the kid alone damn..
Hey guys, acknowledgment is a sense of empowerment for idiots like good ol docter sherwin. This is the first and the last bit of attention that he is going to get from me.
"Paging Doctor Faggot! ... Doctor Faggot!"
because im darn impressed you said something that pissed off roughly 130 people enough that they all negged you
Did the love of your life dump you because your legs were too long?
I do not hate Vinopal, and I think that he is probably a really good player, but if Knight and Parker wanted to commit, does it makes sense to keep a kid who is not as good? This is not highschool football where we make everybody feel good... We need to win haha
Ray committed to Michigan first. When we win, we win with integrity.
The coaches evaluated Vinopal and thought he would be a contributor haha
How do you know who is better? How do any of us? There are many 5 star recruits who don't amount to anything, and there are many 2 and 3 stars who play in the NFL. Remember David Harris? He was not highly rated. He's still playing into late January. Lay off Vinopal, morons.
God, the people who, despite ALL the evidence pointing in only one direction, persist in this "stars don't matter fantasy", kill me.
It's not that they don't matter. They do, they're just not everything, like the people who bag on Vinopal claim.
I thought there was concern that he was still not qualified? If so, does that open upa slot?
Witty is not part of the 26 and he's already been denied admission.
I also read that Kinard is not going to qualify, but I haven't seen any updates since then. If so, that leaves two spots. One for Parker and one for mystery OL recruit (if it is an OT) would be really nice.
Why are you so down on this kid, He is the type who will come in work his ass off and push other guys around him to get better.
Do you realy take into acount the star ratings, they do not show everything this kid could suprise us all.
You've gotta take Parker, maybe even Dorsey or Knight. Yes star rating don't show everything, but players ranked higher are more likely to succeed. Nothing is a sure thing, but if you are just playing the odds, Parker, Dorsey, or Knight > Vinopal.
Please don't take this as an insult towards Vinopal, I'm sure he's a fine player, and I'm not saying he couldn't be a helfpul piece on a good team, I just think that there are better players, and if you need to drop him to get better players, its certainly not optimal, but you've gotta do it.
I've read enough negative garbage about the coach of my favorite college football team.
If you want to read more negative garbage, and more that is justified, well, then imagine what we'd have to see and read if Rich Rod dumped a player less than 3 weeks before National Signing Day.
One of the things Rich Rod sells to his recruits is the concept of family (notice the number of de-commits this year, when his program and recruiting philosophy has been in place). That doesn't work if you go dumping players at this late stage of the game.
Vinopal isn't going anywhere. He's solid, smart, athletic, and fast. He might play next year. Stop ragging on him (not just you, everyone) - when I read crap like this I hope he emulates Jordan Kovacs (the walk-on redshirt freshman who had a knee injury/surgery in fall 2008 and thus didn't even get the Barwis treatment and was starting for Michigan five games into his career) who was a FRESHMAN ALL AMERICAN.
Vinopal reminds me of Kovacs with speed. If Kovacs had the speed of Vinopal he would be an all american. I am confident that Vinopal will turn a lot of heads with his stellar play in the years to come.
(Sarcasm. and ban-death to doc sherwin). I too love Kovacs, it was just painfully obvious a couple times last year that speed is no an asset for him.
I agree with you regarding Vinopal, but don't sleep on Kovacs. I have no inside information, but let's not forget that Jordan had knee surgery, like I said, and returned to the team over the summer in 2009 and was starting within 5 weeks, beyond his wildest dreams.
Obviously, playing deep safety is not his forte, but he was decent to solid in the SS spot. Imagine the kid with a year of speed and strength training. There's no reason why Jordan cannot be a solid contributor to the team for the next 3 years along with Vinopal, either at the non-deep safety position or at a LB spot not covering slot receivers.
And think, this is a kid none of us had ever heard of before the Notre Dame game.
Just the availability of Kovacs for three more years, in addition to the other guys who can play the safety spots, is even more reason to be optimistic about the direction of the team.
And, quite frankly, Sean Parker or Rashad Knight is a hell of a lot more likely to help win us football games than Ray Vinopal. I don't give 2 shits about media coverage, because it'll all go away if you start winning. Recruiting is a dirty, dirty game, and if something changes and you can accept a top notch player, and you have to tell a lesser player sorry, we don't have room, then so be it.
they are called walk ons
Mike Hart, he was 3 star only had offers from MAC schools.
But looking at some of the prospects we are in on(Dorsey, Knight, Parker) I don't think there is a true cap on the number of commits. Assuming Kinard qualifies and nobody decommits(ya right) I would almost be disappointed if we just settled at 26. Our chances at Parker and Knight look good and there is still a ton of time til NSD so who knows what other prospects may actually be in the fold.
Soooo...I'll take 27.
Phase 3 = Profit
The other thing about Vinopal is he has those little, short, stubby arms. His reach is limited. And that is another severe handicap for a defender. Don't believe me? Go look at his picture. The guy is all head, neck and torso.... with stubby/stumpy arms and legs. God bless him.... he seems like a good kid.... but an athlete he is not. He is stumpy.
Good look to him and all the best to him in the future but it is time to move on from him and add better prospects.
Good look to him
Vinopal isn't going anywhere.
I hope he prints out your bullshit comments and uses them for motivation.
You are truly a classless eunuch.
For calling him a Eunuch.
Why are people responding to a known MSU troll? And why hasn't he been banned? Oh that's right, people voted for limited moderation of these boards. The board could be cleaned up from trolls and multiple threads on the same subject, but nope, they wanted more freedom and here's what everyone gets now. Enjoy :-)
IT'S LIKE LORD OF THE FLIES! I WOULD MAKE A WITTY REFERENCE BUT I NEVER FINISHED THE BOOK! AHHHHHHHHHHH!111!
are really annoying
No? Thought so. Go actually learn a thing or two about biomechanics and then come back here and lecture us.
PS- Does anyone have a picture of Ray's whole body where he is holding a football? If so I can use the software we use in my biomechanics lab to measure his arms and legs to shut this guy up. The football will give me a fixed reference point to measure everything.
Vinopal is built almost exactly like Tim Dwight. You know, the dude from Iowa who made it to the NFL?
Quit obsessing about frame dimensions. Sometimes dudes can just flat out play. I know something fun! Let's make a list of all the current and past amazing athletes who had bodies "poorly proportioned" for their sport and yet they were still dominant.
Andre the Giant.
would be a whole hell of a lot shorter than the list of people who had optimal bodies for their position and ended up dominant.
It's tough because Knight and Parker are NSD decisions. We'll see what happens. I don't think we have any more big recruiting weekends coming up. So now we wait
but i'd take this guy: http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=7632
This kid is worse than Vinopal!!
i wonder if we can retroactively pull his scholarship and give it to dillon baxter, who clearly deserves it more.
When I first heard of Vinopal committing and looking at his numbers, I immediately thought of Jim Leonhard. The starting safety for the NYJ at 5'8" 185 lbs. The kid walked on at Wiscy and turned into an NFL starter. I'm not concerned with "stubby arms or short legs."
Obviously I'm not saying Vinopal will be Leonhard, but I actually want to see this kid at Michigan and don't want to see him pushed away for another commit.
I'm not concerned with "stubby arms or short legs."
thankfully, neither is my girlfriend.
At least it's just your arms and legs! :)
Aggressively, relentlessly, savagely defend this coaching staff and this incoming class from all who would tear them down!
I can't wait for the Spring game!
The frequent bashing of Vinopal drives me nuts. Safety has been THE worst performing position at Michigan in the past 15 years and we want to turn this guy away? A guy who is a natural safety (unlike most of the position-switchers we've used for years). He's a legit 5'11" with legit 4.5 speed. He was all-state in Ohio. He's smart and hard working. Sure, let's show him the door because we saw a picture of him where it looked like his arms were slightly short. Geez.....
We need all the safeties we can get. I don't know why RR said 26 is the limit and not 28, but I also know that he said 25 was the limit three weeks ago. It will all work out without having to yank Ray's scholarship - just enjoy the ride.
And why don't guys like Jones or Williamson get the same treatment in the forums? I like having Jones as an insurance policy and long term project but he's our 4th string QB or at best MIGHT switch to a totally unfamiliar position and beat out about ten other guys for PT. Who cares? Let's celebrate who wants to help revive this program!
I agree with you completely. Let's be positive.
The 2008 and 2009 seasons have been hard on the soul. Let's have some positivity and optimism when the games are far in the future.
"AC1997;" I'm under the opinion that RR's limit of 25 last week 26 this week and who knows what # next week is to get the last few high profile recruits we're in on to get on board sooner rather than later so we can shore up this recruiting class before NSD; if at all possible.
As for all the others worrying about #'s I seriously doubt we have anything to worry about in the event Dorsey, Parker, and Baxter all wanted to commit; as we'd find room one way or another without having to leave anyone on the outside looking in. I'm also of the opinion that in the event someone was forced to greyshirt that tidbit would have been fully disclosed to them @ the time of their offer and/or commitment by the staff.
Based on ratings, Vinopal and Jones should probably be the #4 players at their positions (barring any commitments).
So would you rather have a 4th-string QB or a 4th-string safety? I'll take the 4th-string QB first.
On top of that, Denard Robinson is probably headed for a different position in 2011. So we'd better hope that Jones can be a #3 quarterback.
No matter what you may or may not think of the recruit, the truth is it doesn't matter. Rich Rod and staff have made an offer for these kids to get an education at the University of Michigan while playing some football. Once they accept, it is a done deal. It is an honor to be accepted into the University and it is a priviledge to put on the maize and blue. To all commits, welcome, and we, like our coaches believe you will do our school proud both on and off the field.
Wouldn't telling a kid who wore a Michigan sweathsirt at a team function IN OHIO thanks, but no thanks, weeks before NSD pretty much burn any ties with his program? (In addition to being a shitty thing to do.) Isn't Cardinal Mooney a pretty good program that turns out players? I am not a big follower of recruiting so I could be missing something here. The above are honest questions, but it seems like good reasons why not to hose Ray Vinopal over. (In addition to common decency.)
"The Fannman;" You are correct in Mooney being a premier football program in the state of Ohio. Mooney is currently tied with Cincinnati Archbishop Moeller for the most D3 Football Titles and only trail D1 Cleveland St. Ignatius by 3 titles for the program with the most titles overall in the state of Ohio.
Mooney's Title Years:
(2009, 06, 04, 87, 82, 80, 73)
I'm not in Mich, but following the media suggests that jg2112's comment should be spraypainted all over I-94:
Notice the number of de-commits this year, when his program and recruiting philosophy has been in place?
Right on. Rip. Shit. Up.
It seems that offensive players tend to commit before defensive guys. I've heard it said before, and it seems to be true for the most part.
That's partly because offensive players develop sooner than defensive guys and, therefore, get offered sooner.
A big part of playing defense is understanding the game, aligning properly, diagnosing plays quickly, etc. Sophomore players tend not to have enough experience to do those things extremely well.
Meanwhile, running backs and, to a lesser extent, receivers are very instinctual positions. If you have "It", you have "It" as a sophomore or a junior. A lot of good quarterbacks have quarterback coaches from a young age. When's the last time you saw a middle linebacker have a middle linebacker coach in seventh grade?
I appreciate the explanation, even if you were 'splainin' a point I was trying to make. Thanks. +1
Ray Vinopal has short little alligator arms and stubbly little legs. Stubby arms and stubby legs. Both will limit his range and effectiveness.
A defensive player's arm reach is very very important. That is why scouts often comment on the wingspan of a player. That is often the difference between a play being made and a play being missed.
Vinopal was okay as a throw-in if we were running out of committable "elite prospects" on our board. But now with Parker and Knight still on the board, Vinopal has to go. No room for career backups.
Is Ray going out for the basketball team too?
Then I dont give two shits about his wingspan.
This thread is so full of fail it brought a tear to my eye.
It's 25, as Drake's not going to cut it. It might even be 24, as Kinard might not cut it either (notice that we have 5 DE/Q's committed right now...).
It seems as though the last scholarship (#26) will go to either Sean Parker or Rashad Knight. Then if another opens up, there are several positions we are still hitting hard, and a couple of prospects that we might be able to make room for:
#1) OL: Nichols. He's listed on rivals big board right now. Big high school TE. Might be worth a schollie!?
#2) NT: Beachum/Thornton. Haven't heard from Beachum in a long time. It sure would be nice to land a legit NT.
#3) ILB: Dorsey/Thomas/Mehrer *If Jake Ryan is being recruited as an ILB...then he beat out these three for the ILB schollie.
#4) Studs: Baxter-SB, Black-DE *EDIT - sounds like we're just not that into grimes.
QB: Gardner, Jones (?)
WR: Miller, Robinson
WR: Jackson, Williamson
DT: Ash, Talbott
DE: Wilkins, Paskorz
Q: Kinard, Rogers
FS: Robinson, Johnson
SS: *Parker/Knight, Vinopal
CB: Christian, Talbott
Well hello again.
Come back when you can't stay as long...
Folks, I'm a double alum and a diehard fan. I live out west, but follow UM football daily. Still, I need someone smarter and more informed than me to explain how one can feel good about this 2010 recruiting class. All we've heard for the past 2 years is how we need talent. And now we follow it up with what's probably our worst recruiting class in two decades. It used to be that our average recruit was a 4 star. Now it's a 3 star. And that's no way to compete for conference, much less national, championships. Especially with glaring needs at almost every position. I know there are gems in there, like Gardner (God bless him for enrolling early). But is there anything to suggest that we can feel good about the direction of this team, as a whole, from a recruiting standpoint?
All we've heard for the past 2 years is how we need talent. And now we follow it up with what's probably our worst recruiting class in two decades.
Scout has the 2010 class at #9. That is higher than Scout's final rankings of Michigan's 2002, 2007, and 2009 classes, and equals the 2006 class.
Just stop it.
Last year RR brought in the best players from Michigan (BWC), Ohio (Turner), Arizona (Roh and Lewan) and NJ (LaLota). That's leaving out Gallon, Toussaint, Emilien, V. Smith, Je'Ron Stokes, and Quentin Washington. And, uh, remember Tate Forcier and Denard Robinson?
This year - he's pulled 8 of the top 75 players in Ohio, he's pulled the #3 CB in the country (Cullen Christian), the NUMBER ONE DUAL THREAT QB, a center absolutely coveted by Florida State, wide receivers being recruited by Florida (R. Miller) and LSU (Jeremy Jackson), a top level DT (Dick Ash), the punter they wanted (Hagerup), and top level safeties in tow (M-Rob, Carvin, Vinopal) and on deck (Sean Parker).
So yeah, if you don't see the positivity, you're not looking at the class. At all. The class is NINTH BEST IN THE COUNTRY. Obviously your standards are a little bit exacting.
This is a great recruiting class. I think people get too wrapped up in the number of stars the recruit has. Keep in mind players like Mike Hart, Braylon Edwards, AJ Hawk and James Lauranitis were all 3 star recruits and look how they performed.
I'm not taking issue with the class of '09 and I don't deny that underrated recruits can and often do turn out to be great. Still, I am grateful for the question I posed and the enlightening discussion it generated. I clearly need to be reading more Scout and less of everything and everyone else that has our '10 class in the cellar. There is another minor issue here. Is our coaching staff capable of making the most of this awe-inspiring, 3 star talent, so underwhelmingly recruited by other bcs schools? If mistakes, dismal second halves and the downward trajectory of last season is any indication, how can the answer to that question be a 'yes'? Finally, are those of us that point out the obvious 'full of fail' because we expect the leaders and the best to act like the leaders and the best? Or is it the serial apologists that are full of fail because they perpetuate our beloved program's single biggest flaw: a culture of utter complacency? Don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for the rah, rah, rah. It's called football Saturdays. But it strikes me that, given the current state of the program, the offseason (especially the recruiting season) ought to be a time for some critical self reflection. Thoughts?