Pittsburgh went 9-4 (2002), 8-5 (2003), 8-4 (2004)
Then they hired Dave Wannstedt.
He went: 5-6 (2005), 6-6 (2006), and 5-7 (2007)
Of course he was fired after the 2007 season.
Wait, what? He wasn't? Jeez that was a huge mistake!
Ohhh, he went 9-4 (2008) and is currently 9-1
Crap, that just doesn't make any sense. Any coach should be able to have a winning record after 3 years. It's just stupid to give a coach 4-5 years!
You don't understand though
Point taken. I don't think
Point taken. I don't think you could ever fire the stache and then look yourself in the mirror.
So?
RR should grow one?!
Life should not be a journey to the grave to arrive safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What A Ride!" HST
Yes, but not because it makes
Yes, but not because it makes him hard to fire. I want to see it just to see it.
Get me a good picture of RR's
Get me a good picture of RR's hair and the type of mustache you want to see him with, and consider it done. On a related note, I turned Mariucci into a Nazi for the e3w, back in the day.
original here.
edit: bonus, I found the issue in which it appeared! http://everythreeweekly.com/pdf/volume4/feb03.pdf
I guess it can't be said
I guess it can't be said enough that patience is a virtue and we need to give RichRod enough time to turn things around.
If only everyone could see logic and reason when it's provided right in front of their face.
A wise man speaks because he has something to say; a fool because he has to say something. - Plato
I'll do my best
Stanford, with Mr. Harbaugh:
2007 - 4-8
2008 - 5-7
2009 - currently 7-3.
Oh yeah, I'll try again
Kirk Ferentz:
1999 - 1-10
2000 - 3-9
2001 - 7-5
2002 - 11-2
2003 - 10-3
2004 - 10-2
Excellent post, Enjoy a life.
Excellent post. People need to chill out (myself included) and give this transition the time it needs/deserves.
Seriously, spin it however
Seriously, spin it however you want...but the fall at Michigan under RR has greatly exceeded Pitt's struggles the first couple of years under Wannstadt. You can spin it in any way...for every Dave Wannstadt...you can also see a Charlie Weis or Bill Callahan, who both had far more success than RR at bigger/comparable programs (and were deemed unacceptible and broomed out quickly before damage could pervade...Weis is next).... and then you have a guy like Paul Johnson for example who keeps rollin at GT.
The bottom line you have to ask these questions:
1) Has this team shown any signs of improvement over the past 2 years?
No.
2) Has recruiting dropped?
Yes.
3) Have there been significant off field distractions such as issues with players, NCAA investigations, lawsuits etc?
Yes.
3) Has there even been 1 single sign of positivity that Rich Rodriguez can get it done at Michigan?
No.
4) Have these been the 2 worst Michigan teams in modern history...on an unprecedented scale of failure?
Yes.
This is not Tom Hagan talking. This is not Kool-Aid people talking.
These are the FACTS.
Listen to the FACTS.
Strictly business...Not personal.
What Kind of Cheese?
Would you like with your whine?
1) Has this team shown any signs of improvement over the past 2 years?
YES! -- Offense has improved. QB play has improved.
2) Has recruiting dropped?
No -- not compared to LC last years
3) Have there been significant off field distractions such as issues with players, NCAA investigations, lawsuits etc?
NO -- this is pure hype (remember the "Favre is creating dissension in the Viking team)
3) Has there even been 1 single sign of positivity that Rich Rodriguez can get it done at Michigan?
Yup, we beat nd (you just asked for 1 dude)
4) Have these been the 2 worst Michigan teams in modern history...on an unprecedented scale of failure?
Yes. This is indeed the only fact you presented.
Life should not be a journey to the grave to arrive safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What A Ride!" HST
You are wrong on a lot of those
1. http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/offence-against-first-7-big-10-opponents-yea...
This is for the conference which is what really matters.
2. I have to agree
3. There haven't been significant off the field distractions? You are kidding, right? The buy-out, practicegate, players smearing the team on the way out, etc.
4. You listed 3 twice.
5. Notre Dame is an underachieving bunch. To say that beating a team that lost to Navy, whose coach is about to be fired and may only win 6 games and eeck out a bowl bid is positive then you cannot be helped. You have drank so much kool-aid that ur head is about to asplode.
6. Facts be facts. These are the 2 worst teams in modern history.
Not Tom Hagan eh? Is that you
Not Tom Hagan eh? Is that you Glen Beck? Just can't stay away from the fear mongering can you? You old scitzo you
I know from experience dude. If you know what I mean.
Here's a fact for you - you
Here's a fact for you - you should root for a different team. Listen to the facts Tom because Michigan doesn't need fans like you.
Dissent will not be
Dissent will not be tolerated! If you are unhappy with a coach, you can no longer be a fan of a team!
That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. Argue with his points, but do not impugn his fandom.
What's to argue? Another
What's to argue? Another irate Michigan fan who calls for RR's head and brings up what HE feels is best for the team like the 100 other threads when none of us coach the team. He's just angry and spouting off and like many let the fast start get to his head when we realistically knew this could be around a .500 season at best. And I'm sorry I don't make assumptions on recruiting and that it's on the decline when plenty of Lloyd Carr's classes with highly rated recruits didn't pan out. I'd prefer to let the kids come here, do the work, and then make an assessment based on their actual play not how many stars they have next to their name.
"1) Has this team shown any
"1) Has this team shown any signs of improvement over the past 2 years?
No."
Stopped reading after this, because it's clear you don't have any fucking clue what you're talking about. Lemme guess, you're gonna be cheering for Stanford and LSU extra hard this weekend?
Where is the improvement
Where is the improvement Brian?
crickets....
The offense is worse than last year in Big Ten play...the Defense is significantly worse...
The recruiting rankings are down and they are now reaching for "sleepers" to fill spots...
and...there is a little issue of unfiled reports and NCAA investigations.
Give me a Fucking Break Koolaid Drinker....
You show me Improvement and I will listen.
Until then you are just full of it...
Strictly business...Not personal.
The oracle has spoken
I really hope you aren't as big of a douchebag in real life as you on the teh interwebs. So since you're the Oracle and all knowing then why don't you just cheer on Florida and you'll be happy with the offense, recruiting, and sparkling way with which they run their program. And as an added bonus you get to be closer to Jesus. Give me a fucking break guy.
Way to show facts
on how he was wrong. If you don't agree, cool. However, you should write out something to dispute the claims instead of spouting nonsense and attacking him.
How the fuck does MichMike's
How the fuck does MichMike's post get 5 negs (and counting)? Seriously, you people who are addicted to the down arrow are annoying as hell.
-> "You are what your record
-> "You are what your record says you are" - Bill Parcells
Our record says that we are the youngest team in the BigTen, are 16 scholarships short of the limit, and have a severe deficit at safety and linebacker.
Give the team a chance to flourish under the coach that has brought in a lot of young talent. In 2 years we will be the most experienced team since we have the most players in the league that have 3 years of eligibility or more left.
Wow, you really missed the
Wow, you really missed the meaning of the Parcells quote.
Our record "says" we are 5-6, a bad team. Our record does not "say" anything about the reasons for our being a bad team.
The point of the quote is that there are no excuses, the record speaks for itself.
No, I understood the purpose
No, I understood the purpose of you using the quote. I just see the world a little more complexly. I think Rod can get this program to the top, but I didn't think he could this year.
I predicted a 5-7 season in August, because we have true freshman QBs, no strong play at safety or LB, 16 scholarships under the limit, the youngest team in the conference...that is a recipe for struggling. To label Rod a failure and ignore the circumstances is simplistic and foolhardy. Great, lets ignore that this team was set up to struggle and then fire him, bring a new coach so that half of Rod's recruits will leave and the players don't fit the current system.
Well, you could start with
Well, you could start with the fact that we've won 5 games as opposed to 3. That's...like...the definition of improvement.
We had the #6 recruiting class in the country in 2009 (Rivals).
Meanwhile, our quarterbacks are FRESHMEN and we have 69 players who were offered scholarships out of high school.
Perhaps you should change your handle to Fredo. It would fit your personality better.
Anything under 6
isn't really relevent is it? The goal of every team is to make a bowl. Some teams have aspirations of making the big ones while others just want to play in Dec/Jan. We could very well have 3 wins as we could 7. 3 to 5 doesn't constitute improvement bc they don't get the extra practices and it hurts recruiting the same.
Come on. We may have
Come on. We may have improved, but two extra wins over a winless MAC team and a high-school level opponent don't prove anything, especially since we basically swapped out an undefeated Utah team for Eastern Michigan.
If we want to play the "wins" game, does the fact that we had more Big 10 wins last year than we do this year prove that we have gotten worse?
"We may have improved, but
"We may have improved, but two extra wins over a winless MAC team and a high-school level opponent don't prove anything"
Do you realize that last year we LOST to a team that went 2-6 in the MAC and BARELY beat a team that was 1-7 in the MAC.
So your whole argument seems to fall a part that we haven't improved considering that we convincingly beat 2 MAC teams, including a team with a winning record in the MAC.
Tom Hagen wasn't a wartime consigliere
In the Godfather, at least.
Are we at war? Certainly this week we are.
Where's Charlie Bauman when you need him?
um
Wannstedt walked into a much better situation at Pitt than what Richrod did at michigan. The problems that Wannstedt had at Pitt don't even begin to compare with what Rich Rod inherited and it still took him until his fourth year to have a winning record and reach a bowl game.
What you posted are not the facts.
You're just MORON.
Don't listen to the MORON.
Brady...Hoooooooke!
It would have been completely justified to fire him then.
He hadn't shown anything at the head coaching level before then, and if he was fired after year three I don't think you would have read a single article saying that that was a bad decision. RR however has far more head coaching success IMO than Wannstedt had at that time, which is why he deserves more time.
"Everyone gets dumped Gabe. Let me give you some advice: a little coverup on your Adams Apple will make it appear smaller. Which will make you appear less like a transvestite."
So we are supposed to judge
So we are supposed to judge coaches on how their teams do with the previous coach's players. Charlie's best years were with Tyrone's players. I think you need three full recruiting years before you can pass judgement. So in 2011 we should see a Rich Rod team. I know it's hard to wait that long but, can you not see that there is a huge difference between a Lloyd Michigan team and a Rich Rod Michigan team. I hate how these last two years have went but we cannot judge Rich Rod by how Lloyd Carr's players play and fit into his scheme.
WTF?
This guy has been a complete douchebag for the last month. How does he still have 2000 points? Most people on this board are trying to be positive or constructively criticize. If you are just going to post 30 times a day and bitch and moan and cry I think this board can do with out you.
T
1) The offense is better this
1) The offense is better this year and is scoring ~7 or more points per game on average.
2) Recruiting was top 10 last year, and will be top 15 this year, when the class is signed. It did drop slightly in 2009, but was strong in 2008 & 2007 (RR/ Lloyd transition).
3) Lawsuits are not relevant to the football team. It's a personal matter and the 1st real estate lawsuit was thrown out of court. The WVU thing happens to every coach, but WVU just attacked as hard as possible.
The NCAA investigations have so far uncovered nothing. Wait to see what the end result is.
4) Yes, these 2 Michigan teams have been terrible
The bottom line is that RR needs more time. He has a different system and philosophy so let him play that out.
If you are a guy like Brian Kelly, wouldn't you rather go to ND or stay at Cincy, given Michigan pays RR 1/2 of what Urban Meyer makes and Michigan will fire you after 2 years, if things go wrong (Weiss is in year 5, and may still not get fired).
"They're stuck with that quarterback (sophomore Braxton Miller) for the next two or three years, that's fine with me. He throws worse than (Tim) Tebow. - Steve Everitt
I don't really think the
I don't really think the situation at pittsburgh is at all applicable to ours here with richrod...that being said, i am as pro-rich rod as they come.
By your own soul, learn to live. If some men thwart you, take no heed. If some men hate you, have no care. Sing your song, dream your dream, hope your hope and pray your prayer." - Parkenham Beatty (~ Lloyd Carr)
I'm heading to Pittsburgh
I'm heading to Pittsburgh right after christmas with some friends from LI i really dont care much about the situation im going to see a game and tailgate with some friends from the city. I've been working on a philadelphia solar rebates program the last few months and just finished plenty of time for summer to come and save on my bills. Doing the same once i get to the burgh for a few friends.
To the rest of you
To the rest of you guys...particularly the people who tell me to "go root for another team"
(which is a fucking ridiculous statement for you to make)
Bottom line: If it requires being Blind to the Truth to be your type of "Fan" well count me out.
I support Michigan football to my death...will always root for them in every game.
But... Rich Rod is the wrong guy to coach this team. He has done one of the worst coaching jobs here in NCAA history, particularly for a big time program.
This is not Tom Hagan just saying this...
These are fully and 100% (150%+??) supported by FACTS.
There are absolutely 0 zip facts that this program has a bright future under Rich Rod.
None.
The guy has had 2 years and has failed miserably.
So attack me...I dont give a fuck...give me 1 million - mgoblog points
I dont fucking care if I lose the "popularity contest" that you have going here...
You can get your points and roll around in them.
But I am for the best interests of the Michigan football program....and if you look at the truth and the facts, then you will be as well.
We all know what the inevitable conclusion will be for this program to move forward.
Strictly business...Not personal.
just make sure
you don't change your tune regardless of what happens next season.
MGoObes
I was reading Fortune magazine yesterday, and one of the articles started this way, I'm not kidding:
DuPont is changing its manufacturing and business practices, but not in the way you think.
You better copyright that line.
Q: How many emo tomhagans
Q: How many emo tomhagans does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: 0, emo tomhagans cry alone in the dark.
Typical
Response from the WLA.
That being said, it is what it is.
In what sense? Funny?
In what sense? Funny? Including the word "emo"?
And
from you as well (replying to KoB).
okay, okay...
I may get negbanged for this, but that's okay... been drinking.
I don't think most of what Tom has said here deserves this level of negbanging. I don't agree with it all, but the last two years haven't been the best, and I think a little concern is warranted.
I think the point of the OP was simple, we need to give this a little more time before claiming the sky is falling. This is true.
I also think TomHagan's concerns are warranted. Sure, it's hard to address them rationally when you feel like he's yelling at you, but this is the shortcoming of digital communication.
Can't we just leave it at:
1) We need to be supportive of the program, because it's too early to make a drastic change
2) However, continual progress over the next two years is a must.
3) Everybody on these boards wants what's best for the team. Sure we have didn't POVs on what that entails, but really it is about the Team, the Team, the Team.
Okay, the lady is beckoning and I've still got a half glass of Makers. Good night, guys.
Do Something. If it works, do more of it. If it doesn't, do something else.
TomHagan's "facts" are either
TomHagan's "facts" are either incorrect or skewed. That's what's wrong with what he's saying.
The problem isn't being
The problem isn't being concerned. Anyone with a brain is concerned at this point. The problem is drawing conclusions already. The OP's point was that it is a bad idea to draw conclusions about a coach after three years, before he gets his system fully implemented with experienced players that he recruited. Tom isn't expressing concern, he's declaring "Rich Rod is the wrong guy to coach this team". Concern is warranted, declaring RichRod the wrong coach before he has been here two full years is short-sighted, reactionary, annoying, and worthy of a negbang.
The OP
Provided one example and that means he's got something that should be etched in stone?
Here are some counter-examples of people who won with other guys' players:
Dantonio (whom we all laugh at); Weis, Stoops, Kelly, Meyer, Bo Pellini, Lane Kiffin, Nick Saban, Les Miles.
It works both ways.
That being said, it is what it is.
Where did I or the OP say
Where did I or the OP say anything should be etched in stone? In fact, I said anyone with a brain is concerned at this point, which is the opposite of saying the OP has something that should be etched in stone. Nobody should be etching anything in stone about RichRod until he has a roster full of experienced players he recruited, which is why Tom is getting negbanged.
Opinion =/= fact
But... Rich Rod is the wrong guy to coach this team. He has done one of the worst coaching jobs here in NCAA history, particularly for a big time program.
This is not Tom Hagan just saying this...
These are fully and 100% (150%+??) supported by FACTS.
Please explain to me how that statement is a fact. Better yet, don't bother, because it's not a fact. It's 100% (150%+??) pure opinion.
"The difference between a man and a boy is, a boy wants to grow up to be a fireman, but a man wants to grow up to be a giant monster fireman."
- Jack Handey
Impatient fool.
You cannot wait to see what RR can do with a full class of players selected by himself? I've seen progress, and so has everyone else except for you. Someone needs to rip the shitty accustic guitar out of your hands and smash it over your cobb-webbed filled skull.
Wannstedt lost his coaching duties before the last game of 2007, that's when the Wannstache took over.
Also, check out the background for Wannstache's twitter page, it's nuts:
Guess he's taking Pittsburgh by storm.
Brady...Hoooooooke!