well that's just, like, your opinion, man
Terrelle Pryor's missed opportunity
In the past couple of years, OSU has been riding the wave of its past. For a top ten team, they haven't showed greatness, just wins, and mostly against good, but not great, Big Ten schools. They certainly can't compete on a national BCS level. They've had too many close games against mediocre schools. I watched the game yesterday, and Terrelle Pryor is a great athlete. But I still haven't seen the great quarterback. And now it is becoming clear that he doesn't have the supporting cast he needs to continue OSU's dominance.
But Michigan is on its way back. It's a program that has been treading water the past several years, with the only convincing win being the one against Florida. It hit bottom last year. And now the pendulum is starting to swing back the other way for the Wolverines. They are starting to find their voice and their momentum, and hopefully, the naysayers will let RichRod continue in that direction.
Terrelle Pryor missed the boat. He picked the program that's on its way down, when he should have picked the one that's on its way up. He could have been pivotal in the rebuilding. But instead, his team will ride the coattails of the teams from 4 and 5 years ago, and perhaps struggle to regain the momentum.
We've seen what Tressel can do. He's a great coach, but we've seen his hand. RichRod is just starting to create his.
Last year, I was envious that OSU got TP. But this year, I think we got the better deal. The QB situation is exploding with potential, both for the next game and the next several years.
Good luck, TP. You're going to need it.
There is little doubt that TUOOS was looking ahead to USC. Also, Navy was a respectable team last year. It is also safe to say that everyone in the Big Ten has trouble defending any kind of option offense. See the last decade of out-of-conference option games. For the sake of the Big Ten I hope TUOOS beats USC. For that matter, if we and TUOOS can both win Saturday the Big Ten may actually get some good press for once. Then again the press will probably just say that ND was glass jawed like last year and USC was hampered by a true Frosh QB...
but I want Ohio State to win really badly against USC. That way when we beat them it will crush (hopefully, as long as they beat PSU) their MNC hopes which would be a lot sweeter than having them lose to USC
I think I want OSU to win as well, for a few reasons, but I like the way you said it. But I think that means I can't watch the game, since I can't see those jerseys and not cheer against them. But man, I hate USC too, hopefully it's a good game.
Never, ever, ever root for OSU. Just stop please.
I know its been debated ad nauseam on this board, but I prefer for the big ten to win every out of conference game. I think the conferences stature in the eyes of the voters is important.
Neg-bang away if you want, but I'd prefer OSU to beat USC.
But I'm still gonna laugh my ass off when they get stomped by 30 again, which is what I expect will happen...
I respect that viewpoint; I used to share it. But now have a desire for scorched earth. This was cemented in my mind after the Oregon game in AA. The glee that so many of our "Big 10 Brethren" had over our 2007 season (not to mention the 3-9) causes me to always root against Big 10 schools. I know that it's stupid, childish, and hurtful to my school...but I can't stop. Maybe I'll get therapy one day...
"But now have a desire for scorched earth."
I feel you, I want to see every program suffer as we reign over all. The bashing over the last few years has taken its toll. I still try to pull big ten, but fuck osu. I hope they get their ass's handed to em. GO BLUE!!
"Root" is the wrong word. Think of it as "preferring" them to win when it helps Michigan. In terms of image and respect, unfortunately the Big Ten could use some good non-conference wins, and unfortunately Michigan is part of the Big Ten.
Also, grinding an undefeated Ohio State team is so much sweeter than beating an 8-3 Ohio State team. Not that we've had much luck with this in the last couple of years.
You said what I was was trying to say...and said it much better. Yes, I can't root for them but I can prefer that they win. Beating an undefeated OSU is way better than beating a mediocre one.
I'm glad they way you said it made it sound more rational.
but when I rooted for them last year, just to represent the big ten at USC they fell flat on their ass AGAIN. Its like I can't ever get what I want from this team the last decade. Losses or wins & I am sick of them. They dick me over everytime. So I just can't root for anything involving them unless it was to help us win something. I pray for there downfall. I can remember jumping up & down screaming when Colt put that drive together last year. I was SOOOOOOO happy. My girlfriend thought I was nuts. Then it took herover too & she got just as excited... So I am coming home right after the game Saturday and were all going to my house to watch USC beat this overhyped golden child and the rest of those Columbus clowns down.
There are a lot of issues I have with this post, but I'll focus on your assessment of TP. He is a highly gifted football player who has just as much non-measurable potential as Tate or Denard do. Tressel does have a track record with mobile qb's and the last one to play at Ohio State won a Heisman. TP wasn't the full time starter last year and the first game of his second season is hardly a good enough sample to try to judge how his career will end up. You are extrapolating so far beyond the current data set that any conclusions you try to pull out from the data, unless backed up with assumptions based from history, is meaningless. Pryor's stats last year compared with any other true freshman qb show that he has a lot of talent. If you try to tell me that you would turn down Terrelle if he wanted to transfer on questions of his ability as a qb, you are either obtuse or just wanting to start a flame war.
Further, your idea that OSU is somehow riding the momentum from half a decade ago is simply ridiculous.
I didn't claim that TP is a lesser athlete than either Tate or Denard - and I certainly said nothing about turning him down based on his ability should he want to transfer, so the obtuse comment was sort of off base. But TP was considered to be the best QB recruit of last season, so the bar, in my admittedly novice opinion, is raised for someone like that. He was portrayed as the next coming. His freshman year is behind him, so let's see what he's got.
My claim was that OSU isn't a #6 team, and that their play during the past several years hasn't shown them to be a top ten team. We'll see what this season holds for them, but if they struggle against a pretty lukewarm Big Ten conference, I just don't know how you can call my claim ridiculous. I may not look at stats as critically as many on this blog do, but I watch as many OSU games as I can (and of course, Michigan ones), and the proof has been on the field. I haven't seen consistency. When they play well, they're very good. But to be #6, you have to be that way more than 60% of the time.
Terrelle Pryor would have done well at Michigan. He chose a different path. We'll see if that path was the right one. Only time will tell.
About Pryor, can you explain what you meant by "Last year, I was envious that OSU got TP. But this year, I think we got the better deal." I read that to mean you would rather have a true freshman Tate/Denard combo over a second year TP at qb. I think it's way way way to early to judge Tate/Denard and Pryor has very good last year and judging his entire second year on one game isn't fair.
About OSU and their program, I would put them in a general sense between top 5 and top 10 over the last half a decade. I can think of only one or two true upsets (Illinois 07) that they have just fell flat and lost to a worse team. They more-or-less play down to really crappy teams and win, beat up on teams ranked in the 25 to 10 range and win, and win some games against top 10 teams and lose some games against top 10 teams (Wins, Michigan 06, Texas 06; Loses, Texas 08, Penn State 08, USC 08, Florida 06). Against teams ranked at the very top of the list, they do well enough that I wouldn't put them with Florida and USC over the last half decade, but very few teams have been better then OSU lately.
I think you're looking from a bias point of view about Pryor and Ohio State. Both are pretty darn good.
Regarding the "envious" comment, I saw Terrelle Pryor last year as the perfect fit for RR's system, and was very aggravated when he chose OSU. I wanted to see him be part of the rebuilding from day 1. But now that Tate and Denard are here - let's just say in a perfect world, both can be utilized to great effect because 1) the offensive possibilities expand, and 2) it gives the other team's D a literal two-headed monster to contend with. And of course, I'm not basing this on a season full of experiences. This is based both on glimpses of greatness yesterday and wishful thinking. Imagine the possibilities, as they say.
Admittedly, I am biased. But.....when I see teams like USC and Florida and Texas play and see the caliber of athletes they have and the level of play, and then remember that OSU has been in that group in the polls, I just don't see OSU on that level. Not in the past couple of years anyway. They win, but they generally don't crush their opponents (with the exception of the Michigan game last year!). Even in 2007, they should have crushed Michigan. Everyone was hurt - Henne, Hart, etc...but they didn't. They eked by. Beanie Wells had a great game, but the rest of the team was merely good.
I think "OSU vs the scoreboard" is more a statement of Tresselball then the talent on the team.
...but I think it's a little early to crown us with the better end of the Terrelle Pryor lottery. Nothing will make me happier than to look back three years from now and find Pryor finishing his OSU career going 1-3 against Michigan and having Buckeye Nation curse his name, but we're only one week in and there's a lot of football to play. Game 1 is always the shakiest game, OSU could've been running a simple playbook to keep USC in the dark, they could've been looking ahead. There are a lot of explanations that can be offered for why OSU struggled that don't equate to Pryor being a bust.
That said, I like where your head is at. Would be sweet for Pryor to never pan out the way the hype machine predicts and U of M to race back the Bucks to the top of the Big 10 with our "inferior" recruits.
Terrell Pryor still has a lot of football to play at OSU. He hasn't looked like a world beater, but he hasn't exactly been bad, either. We, on the other hand, still have a long way to go. I like where this is heading, but we could still easily end up 5-7 with another OSU beat down. Let's wait until we actual beat Terrell Pryor before we talk smack about him.
Moreover, OSU has never been a team that wins pretty games. Even their national title featured a slew of close calls. So, again, I think it's too early to try to cut them down right now.
Sure, it's fun to watch OSU struggle against other teams, but we really need to get some wins against them...
... showed that he's at exactly the right school for him.
Michigan is going to get the better of his decision...already Tate is a good young QB and Denard is a playmaker... Devin Gardner is going to be a much more polished QB than Pryor will ever be, IMO...and he has the same type of explosiveness.
Its all going to work out just fine at the QB position for UM...just fine.
He was getting paid by OSU boosters, so that was his best option.
As Michigan fans, Pryor signing with OSU was obviously a double-whammy - we didn't get our QB, and OSU got a new weapon to use against us.
The media hyped TP up hardcore, and in a way I think that scared a lot of Michigan fans. It's tough to be optimistic when Sheridan is leading our new "clown car offense" (to use Brian's words) while OSU just hauled in a guy who drew immediate comparisons to Vince Young.
Now, we look at TP and we see that he's struggled against USC and Navy, for example, and we realize that the guy is mortal, after all. For Michigan fans, that's great news, because deep down we were getting worried that we are going to get our asses handed to us for four (three) more years.
Just because he's looked beatable in his first 14 games, however, doesn't necessarily mean that the witch is dead. OSU has owned us in part because they outplayed us, and in part because they've gotten every lucky break. They remain a talented team, and I can't wait to turn the tables on them, but I'm waiting until the final second tick away on our victory before declaring that program to be past its prime.
It's too soon to say who's got the better QB deal, but at least it isn't Michigan fans who have to deal with the bad press this week. Every OSU fan had to give himself a huge forehead smack after hearing TP's seriously messed up diatribe.
I hope you're right.
TP is only good for wipping your ass. I love tate and shoelace and can't wait to see how good they can be over the next 4 years. If tp thinks everyone is killing and stealing, I think it's time the NCAA looks into whats goin on at osu. I knew about Clarret, but shit I didn't know it was going down like that.
Except for O.J.
I agree that Pryor is a phenomenal athlete and should be a good-to-great college QB (but like Vince Young, his deficiencies as a passer will probably hurt him in the pros). And UM has two freshman QBs with a combined 3.5 quarters of college ball under their belts. At the same time, though, I agree with the comment that Pryor is not a great fit for this team. Since early in his recruitment, the guy has been a spotlight mainstay, and not always for the right reasons. This team, with all of the negative press that followed it both last season as well as this one, didn't need any extra distractions. Sure, he might have led last year's team to a 6-6, 7-5 record, but he also would have been a distraction and, I suspect, a detriment to the environment RR was trying to instill in this program.
Perhaps TP and their reliance on him being great is one of reasons they are falling. In hindsight, I am glad we did not get that prima donna here. *note* I wanted him in the beginning like most everyone else. Just not now.
of TP that he was overated because of how gifted he is as an athlete. His mechanics have not improved very much since last year or even HS for that matter. But he is a freakish athlete and when you see him run its so effortless. I think in the end he will not transfer to the pros as a successful QB & would have had a lot more success here at Michigan than anywhere else in ALL of college football. But that didn't happen and I I predict & truly believe 3 years from now OSU will have had little success with TP the way they thought. They will be good, but not great. He was and is still the type of guy that would get the most out of a system like Rodriguez's. So I agree he picked the wrong ship & in the end its possible we made out the better for it because I feel like OSU will be a step behind trying make a piece that doesn't completely fit them for the next few years. Just my 2 cents.
I was encouraged by the OSU-Navy game on a couple of fronts:
1. OSU's defense did not seem nearly as impressive as they had in recent years. Against Navy they looked ineffective against the pass AND against the run. I realize that the Navy offense is somewhat unique, but then again, so is ours. Tressel has often relied on a stout defense to make up for a somewhat plodding offense. If the defense is not dominating the opposition and consistently giving the offense great field position, can Pryor get it done consistently enough to carry the team? Which brings me to:
2. Pryor looks to be an improved passer, but he is still inconsistent. While some of his passes looked a little more crisp, he still had plenty of tacopants-type throws. He missed some wide-open receivers, and some of his passes still look a little wonky. His confidence in his own athleticism also might get him into trouble. Take, for example, the play where he was able to complete a pass with a defender draped on him in his own end zone. He was athletic enough to keep that from being a safety that time, but even attempting that throw in that situation is very dangerous and can easily result in a pick-six. He draws comparisons to Vince Young, but even Young was as much of a liability as he was a weapon, right up until his junior year. With any luck it will take Pryor at least that long (hopefully far longer) to develop as a more complete QB.
In short, while it previously looked like we would be facing some long odds going into The Game this year, if this past weekend means anything then we may have a better than expected chance to surprise people and turn the rivalry in our favor sooner than most projected.
I despise TP as much as the next person and I love optimism but this OP is a little far fetched IME. First of all, TP did not look too shabby to me in his first game of his SOPHMORE season. I really don't like him, but downplaying his abilities because he scorned UM is a little childish. The only reason I can't stand him is because he chose OSU over UM, but I won't let that cloud my vision of what reality actually is. He is a weapn whether we like it or not.
Also, to insinuate that OSU is a "has been" is pretty insane as well. Every year they continue to pull in top ten recruiting classes (number one last year IIRC) and are tops in the B10 most years. They have owned us lately and while that makes me furious, it doesn't mean I should ignore the facts and baselessly claim they all of a sudden suck.
I see UM fans (me included) often say "lets let RR do his job and give him a chance before we say UM is dead or RR is on the way out" Shouldn't we also let OSU actually lose before we make such unfounded claims. Whether they win close games or blow outs, they win and to say they don't belong in the top ten is way off base IME.
You claimed they didn't belong in the same class as USC, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma.....They aren't ahead of any of them in the polls either (except Oklahoma now since they lost). They are right about where they should be at the moment. Depending on the USC game, they could be even higher, but I don't see that happening.
My point is: How can we as a UM fan base keep complaining about how unfair it is for people to make the types of accusations they have been making when we keep spitting stuff like this. We are no better than the people we are complaining about if this keeps up.
I've gotten an awful lot of grief for this post, mostly along the lines of your reply. I feel as if my point has been misconstrued. No where do I claim that OSU, or TP, are bad or untalented. I feel like they aren't living up to the hype. The team that won in 2002 is no longer. I explicitly said they are not a top ten team, and the poll posted on this blog today confirms this. I believe the rivalry and the long term performance of these two teams are cyclical. There are periods when Michigan dominates, and then OSU takes the lead for a while. My point was that I believe the pendulum will now swing in Michigan's direction. I don't think it will happen by the next game, or the end of the season. But do I believe the tides are turning in our favor. I was merely exploring the idea that Terrelle Pryor may have had a different outcome if he had chosen Michigan. You can evaluate a team on players and coaches and ability, but I also think there are intangibles - momentum, drive, the psychology of the team, etc, that factor in. It will be very interesting to watch these two teams over the next two or three years to see what transpires.
The post was a hypothesis. I'm not spitting on OSU or Terrelle Pryor or anyone else. Since when is it a crime to have an opinion about the future of OSU? You don't have to agree with me, but to lump my post in with some of the "suckeye" posts is silly. Jesus, are we not all Michigan fans?