and this year is over
well that's just, like, your opinion, man
and this year is over
Not sure we can make it ...
I'm nervous as hell that something catastrophic is going to happen.
there wasn't a whole lot to talk about, but there isn't much more with this update. Honestly, after reading the bucknuts story, and many here agreed, something didn't seem quite right about the whole thing. Possibly it was sensationalized for the osu rag's sake and we were only getting one side of the story. I'm SURE the two alleged victims didn't have anything to do with egging him on.
"We didn't know it was Taylor Lewan."
Really?? So, you're gonna go with that angle?
Bucknuts story makes no sense because it claims that Lewan was wearing a "red polo". Michigan men would not wear red, especially the night after the OSU game.
The players were not allowed to wear red? Plus I thought read that the man had to work at noon in Columbus the next day and was leaving AA at 830 am. Is that enough time from AA to Columbus for him to be at work at noon?
It takes about 3 hours and 19 minutes to get from AA to Cbus. He'll probably go faster than 70/65 on the highway. So that lessens time. And depending on where his hotel is and where he lives or works, it adds some time to that general mapquest I did. And responsble people usually show up to work a little bit early.
So this guy is not too bright or responsible. Out getting drunk (and let's be honest, there's no way he wasn't inebriated at least a bit at the time) 8 hours before you are supposed to leave and 11 hours before you have to work.
I agree with you!
I can make it from Columbus to Grand Blanc in about 3:45, and thats 50 miles north of AA. 3 hours from AA to CBus, tops.
Of course he could've been wearing red
You don't find it a bit counterintuitive that Lewan would pop on a red polo after a heartbreaking loss to Ohio State? I don't think anyone meant "it's physically impossible that Lewan would wear a red polo" - it just seems a bit unlikely. Who knows - maybe he wagered a friend that if Michigan lost he'd wear a red shirt all night and he's a man who honors his bets. But dismissing disbelief that Lewan was rocking a red shirt that night as "silly" seems a bit rude.
Anyway, my sense from looking at the report is that the victims here are not quite as innocent as they are making themselves out to be. Experience has taught me that often the "victim" in a fight is code for the "loser" of said fight, and quite often an instigator. Shit-talking often ends up in an ass-whipping, especially after midnight near campus bars. And OSU fans walking around after midnight down South U. have a decent likelihood of talking shit. (Not that shit-talking means you deserve a beating. But - to paraphrase Chris Rock - if you talk shit and get a beating, I understand.)
Also, if a fight did occur, give credit to the intervening students. I can imagine that sort of fight going down much more poorly for the victim in most situations.
If the OSU fans had just gone out from their hotel for a bite to eat, why were they on South U? Seems like if they were looking for food and not to stir up trouble they wouldnt have chosen a crowded undergrad area known for its bars that is ridiculously far away from any hotels.
Someone in yesterday's thread (before it got taken down) said that he too had seen Lewan wearing red that night.
"maybe he wagered a friend" -- New Bucknuts story: TAYLOR LEWAN HAS A GAMBLING PROBLEM!!
wear red, ever. Not a joke, I am completely serious. I bought a new driver this summer (Callaway X-Hot) and the only color it comes in is grey with red accents. I had the head re-sprayed so that I would not have that color combination anywhere near my golf bag. And I havent put even 1% as much into Michigan football as Taylor Lewan, so it does seem rather unlikely. However, just because they may have wanted to ameliorate their story by adding these "details" it may not change the fact that there could be some substance to this.
You must be a blast around the holidays.
I dont own a single piece of red clothing. About a month after we were first married my wife bought me a red t shirt. Needless to say, I never wore it and it was banished from the house very quickly.
Red Wings? Blackhawks? Pistons? Bulls?
Like Ben Franklin, All Chicago pro teams are the devil. All of them. Wearng their gear should be a crime.
I should be King. Others can only imagine being so enlightened.
that wearing a color of a school you don't like has an actual impact on wins and losses
This is the new "that couldn't have been Jameis Winston! The police report says he's only 5'10''!"
we all need to anonymously call that number and say that it was the buckeyes and Lewan wasn't there...
I wanted to fight some of those aholes that night too. If I was Taylor Lewan I might have.
But what difference does it make? Other than his pro career, and I wish him the best obviously, he's got one more fairly meaningless game in a Michigan uniform.
a bar in Ann Arbor...WHAT A SHOCK....
Is this why we can't have nice things?
"Who is this Taylor Lewan you speak of?"
He was "in the area of a fight"!!!!
That should be at least a year in jail.
I so heard he was a passenger in a car once that was going 45 in a 35. Fine him.
Lewan was in the area + Bucknuts allegations = an investigation.
So, this is becoming a story because some Bucknuts tan into Lewan?
I can't wait to give this kind of bad press by running miller after the game next year.
I'm not exactly trusting these guys and their credibility as a fanbase recalling:
Carlos "no charges" Hyde and his three week vacation after "allegedly" striking a woman. Quickly forgotten.
Bradley Roby didn't really assault anyone in Bloomington, IN just put himself in a "bad situation". Fanbase doesn't care.
Tat Gate (enough said)
Montreal Alouttes quarterback Troy Smith's walking around money
Clarett, Dan Herron, DeVier Posey, Jordan Whiting, Mewhort...Jeebus, they got Jake Stoneburner pissing between buildings. None of it matters from the assaults to the money to the misdemeanors to the marijuana to the tats to the cars.
Their fanbase there only cares about winning, will forgive pretty much any misdemeanor and have zero credibility. Let's reserve judgment until some facts come out.
It looks like you put a lot of effort into this post, but what does it have to do with the topic at hand?
It appears that your line of reasoning goes: several OSU players have gotten into legal issues, ranging from no charges to misdemeanors, and some others have gotten into NCAA issues.
Due to this, and their fans "not caring" about these incidents, this report should be given zero credibility. Is that correct?
I totally agree on waiting for the facts to come out before judging, but I just don't see why all of the justification of "we are the good guys and they are the bad guys" is necessary.
It doesnt seem relevant and it seems that many fans cling to this idea of fan base superiority to hang their hats on. You only need look around this thread to see various posters insinuating that the OSU fans deserved anything they got, etc.
The fan bases are not that different, so it seems that sides should hold off from trying to claim moral high ground.
If you've read the coverage on the Ohio blogs on this matter you'd think Lewan was plainly guilty and should be immediately convicted. I provided that (abbreviated, btw) list to speak to the concept of Ohio fan credibility. As a group they've been quick to put aside each of those incidents, among others.
FWIW, I am giving this event little credibility until the facts come out. I don't think this is a question of "we're the good guys/they are the bad guys" but more about credibility within that fanbase. The response of their boards and fanbase to immediately convict Lewan sure runs counter to their reaction to their hero Carlos Hyde (who did hit a woman who just decided not to press charges).
Ohio based ten years of essential dominance on lying, cheating, cash payments, tats and marijuana. And their school held a ten year anniversary of the MNC and invited two of the key perpetrators (one being a coach restricted from NCAA participation in football). The fan bases are absolutely different, the administrations are absolutely different, the morality is absolutely different.
Shaun, Michigan is the good guys...and unfortunately this approach has led to too many losses vs. our cheating rivals and their complicit fanbase.
I genuinely believe that this is the single best post I have ever read on this board. Dead on.
Ohio State's past conduct is irreverent in the immediate situation. Perhaps people in glass houses should not throw stones, I agree. However, that does not agrevate or mitigate Lewan in the least. Stay on target here.
Dominick, the Ohio State fanbase reaction to their team/administration's past conduct is absolutely relevant in the immediate situation. You have a fanbase that has not simply supported a culture of "anything to win" lying/cheating/drugs/tats/payments but actually been complicit in it. Jim Tressell didn't provide Terelle Pryor cars/tats but he looked the other way when boosters gave them to him. Gordon Gee didn't give fake construction jobs to players in Cleveland. Ohio State boosters did. Of course,Gee hoped, in the fallout, that Tressel wouldn't fire him. And what did all of this corruption lead to? All the lies, all the lost credibility? It led to a bunch of wins against a Michigan program that was castigated for *stretching* violations. It led to a fanbase that didn't simply tolerate a culture of cheating but one that openly celebrated it. It led to a slap on the wrist from the NCAA, the "Ohio Statement" and it led to Urbz.
The Ohio fanbase looked the other way through all of this and continues to do so. This is their collective narrative where concepts of truth and credibility, generalizably, are not material to them.
Their past conduct, clearly, is absolutely relevant here in that the school and their fanbase's credibility is limited.
Innocent until proven otherwise. Dominick, that is the target.
I'm just trying to point out that, if you take a step back and look at this situation, Michigan fans aren't really acting any better than the OSU fans that you are pointing a finger at.
When a Michigan player is accused, many Michigan fans try to poke holes in the story or else just loudly exclaim that the fans must have deserved what they got. OSU fans assume guilt and make out Lewan to be the devil.
Reverse the situation and you would likely see the same reaction, just switching the fanbases.
Fans are fans, and Michigan fans aren't magically better or more morally in the right than any other. Look at these comments and you will find fans applauding assault and comparing entire fanbases to pedophiles.
Also, if you think that OSU has been consistently beating Michigan over the past decade plus because of tattoos or peeing in alleys then I just can't help you. The games are won by players and coaches, and Michigan players have committed crimes of their own (whether or not this one turns out to be true). Just look at the recruiting battles that OSU and Michigan have, and you can tell that they are recruiting the same players, so the argument that Michigan only recruits "Michigan Men" simply doesn't hold water. Until this incident, many would probably call Lewan a true "Michigan Man."
I just want to point out that, by labeling huge groups of people with the same brush, you are acting the same way as the opposing fans that you are calling out. There are good Michigan fans and bad Michigan fans, good OSU fans and bad OSU fans. Who are the "good" guys and who are the "bad" guys simply depends on which side of the rivalry you fall. There are many here praising violence against others based on this arbitrary divider, which I would hope a fanbase like Michigan's, one which claims to hold itself to a higher standard, would find disgusting and unacceptable.
Shaun, would even Dave Brandon invite a shamed and NCAA exiled former head coach to take part in a "celebration" of a ten year championship anniversary?
Ohio State did. And their capacity crowd gave the man a standing ovation.
That's their fanbase.
Shaun, if you don't think that paying literally dozens of players, giving them improper benefits, cars, tats, access to marijuana, jobs from boosters impacted the competitive balance then I cannot help you.
As to Michigan's "higher standard" how long was the progam dissociated from Chris Webber and how long did Fab 5 reconciliation take? Oh, right, never truly happened. How about those fab 5 final 4 banners? Did Steve Fisher and Jalen, CWebb et al. get a celebration of their final 4 ten years later?
I love how you try to paint an entire fan base with a label of acceptance for their previous coach behavior, players, Urbz and their actions when in contrary, others in the minority, like myself, aren't acceptive of what's happened. Yes we are all proud that Marcus issued the double birds to the Michigan crowd in the Big House s
aying fuck you. We're all proud of the tatted 5 and their actions to sell the things that they along with their other teammates worked for. We are glad that Hyde was back on the team after his actions at Sugar Bar or after Roby punched a bouncer in Bloomington. We were all cheering in the stands for Tressel. Yeah, because the only thing that matters in Columbus is winning. WIN AT ALL COST. JUST WIN BABY!!!! No need to label what things I've personally disagree with as it probably won't matter. I think you should reread Shaun's post in which he proves its ignorant to denigrate an entire fanbase, but what the hell. You're a Michigan fan, you'll have your judgements.
Also, show me a list of the dozens of players paid, that received improper benefits, cars, tats, jobs from boosters, and access to marjuiana, and I'll show you a roster of kids instrumental in beating Michigan 11 of the last 13 years. Competitive advantage my ass. Part of the problem isn't just the players you get, it's the coaching too which is a twofold street. That is unless you don't think there were Michigan Men in the program at the time as coaches and players. Maybe the Leaders and Best didn't execute or play "Michigan football" in that time frame either. Rich Rod fault...
Improper benefits at Ohio State...The Names
Corey Pittsburgh Brown
I can only think of 14 off the top of my head...you must be right; obviously having the equivalent of Bobby DiGeronimo paying players for fake work could never have impacted competitive advantage. No paid five stars here...
Can anyone show me an angle of the video where Carlos Hyde clearly "hit a woman who just decided not to press charges?"
All the videos I've seen are inconclusive at best because it was so grainy. IIRC the bouncer of the bar said that the woman hit Hyde in the back of the head as he was walking away, and he turned around by pushed her away by the face.
From my experience, whenever a woman gets hit, no matter the context, social conditioning causes at least 1 male to jump to the aid of the woman. While it isn't the best evidence of whether or not Hyde violently hit the woman, I really don't see "White Knights" jumping to help her.
No charges filed. Yet the university somehow saw fit to suspend him initially "indefinitely" then for 3 games due to conduct not representative of this football program or this university. That would be the hitting a woman part. Just because the woman didn't charge him doesn't mean he is innocent. Innocent players don't get suspended.
"Carlos Hyde will be suspended for at least the first three games of the 2013 season for conduct not representative of this football program or this university. He will be required to fulfill additional obligations before he is allowed to play in a game.”
Urban did, with the reasoning that Hyde should've known better than to be in that situation at all.
Hyde knew the alleged victim, she was apparently a female that had "relations" with him on multiple occasions and did not take it kindly when Hyde told her it was over. That is what Hyde and the woman were arguing about on the stage. Hyde was supposedly yelling that she was crazy, needed to leave him alone and that he was done with her.
Ultimately, Hyde still disrespected a woman by calling her out like that in public, and considering that's one of Urban's "big no-no's" it could be why the suspension was so heavy handed.
Now, I don't completely rule out the scenario that Hyde did hit her since the video is unclear, but my observation is that MGoBlog seems to be the only place that treats that version as an undeniable fact. Granted, I personally believe that Hyde yelled at her, she got pissed, hit him, and he turned around to push her away without consciously holding back the strength one would except of a 235lbs D1 athlete.
So Urban was respecting his wife when he banged a co-ed? Gtfo with that Buckeye propaganda.
I've seen the video and it doesn't look a damn thing like the version of events you're selling. Hyde doesn't seem to know the girls on the stage - or know any one of them from any other - as he keeps looking back to his boys and pointing at the women for clarification. Also, the guy who shines the flashlights on the girls' asses is the creepiest dude ever.
You run that game with your semantics and your Buckeye apologism. Take that crap back to 11W or wherever you came from.
Urban doesn't suspend anyone without approval from Gene. Well, unless Gene doesn't want Urbz firing him, too.
Your guy was in the wrong there but it isn't easy living in CBus after charging a Buckeye. The accuser would have been accutely aware of the same.
Hell, ask a "real Buckeye" like Herbstreit how reasonable the Ohio fanbase can be...
Decisions indeed, apologist.
The charges were most likely dropped because she realized she would probably get charged with assault/battery. While there was modicum of chance that Hyde could successfully plead self-defense.
Clarkie, God bless you. This is exactly what grinds my gears about OSU (and, really, the NCAA): Basically, they've cheated for 10 years, got "penalized" (but still won a national championship and played for another), and would do it all over again (which tells you the punishment wasn't harsh enough; how many people who go to jail for a crime say "yeah, I'd do that again"? Not many). It's not that the NCAA is right or wrong (the NCAA is ridiculous), it's that all members agree to follow the damn rules.
Their cheating has (in my mind) given them a competetive advantage; I know that recruits seeing guys driving ridiculous cars has an impact on recruiting, for one thing. And the shittiest part about all of it is that their cheating has directly caused a competetive advantage that has manifested itself on the field, in at least two games (14-9 loss at OSU in 2002; 42-39 loss at OSU in 2006) that, in my mind, Michigan wins if Ohio doesn't have said improper competetive advantage (Clarett in 2002; Troy Smith in 2006). Well said by you.
Ohio State apologists want to talk that crap...I'll be their huckleberry.
Just because they have no shame doesn't mean they shouldn't get called on it.
I didn't know Troy Smith was in Montreal. How do you think Denard would do in the CFL, if his ulnar nerve was healed?
I think he would light it up, up North!!
Taylor Lewan has been a great Wolverine, but he has not exactly made us proud in the last couple months with his poor decisions on and off the field. Maybe these guys were egging him on, maybe they weren't, but Lewan is a team captain and he should not be getting involved in this type of thing no matter what his involvment was.
I thought his behavior in the State game was embarrassing. Any moral edge we might have thought we had because of the 2011 game was mocked because of Lewan.
Don't care about any "moral edge".
You have many in the MGoBlogosphere crapping on the team re toughness but apparently Lewan's nastiness fits outside your definition of football morality?
Srsly. Give me 85 players with Lewan's attitude.
Twisting facemasks shouldn't fit in anyone's definition of football morality.
Too many Michigan fans spending too much time on moral edge vs. nastiness.
Nasty wins you games. God help you watch hockey.
There is a difference between playing hard/nasty/aggressive and playing dirty. I think intentionally twisting an opponent's facemask is dirty. If you are defending that type of behavior then I think you need to rethink your priorities.
I think that football is a tough, nasty and sometimes dirty game where emotions get involved. I think that self-righteousness is a bit too easy for us, as a fanbased, at times. It's really easy to moralize when your record against your Little Brother is 1-1 in the last 2, but 5-5 in the last 10.
There have been two memes related to the Sparty games over the past five years:
a) Michigan owned a higher 'moral' ground (here looking at you Tom Gholston et al.) and because Coach Mark Dantonio is generally regarded as a jackass. the whole 60 minutes of unneccessary roughness thing.
b) Michigan appaently got physically dominated by the Spartan teams in 4 of the past 5 matchups. More than that, however, seems to be the meme that they got beat on toughness, nastiness and will to win.
These two things seem opposed and we have a fanbase that wants a team of monster ass kickers but who are just really good fellows.
There is a line that sometime gets crossed and will get crossed by tough teams and players with a nasty streak. I don't know that you can turn that off any more for Lewan than Red Wings apologists take up for Bertuzzi.
...he twisted the opponent's facemask on purpose, and that's fucking bullshit...end of story. No excuses, no matter WHAT color the jersey is.
Why are you comparing college football to pro hockey?
Why not Boxing or MMA or NASCAR?
They're different sports, find another comparison to make your awful point.
Reasons for staying to "experience college"? Done and done.
into bar fights as long as there have been bars and football players. If the internet had existed back when the drinking age was 18, Bo's hat would have had more flying lessons. Lewan is a young football player, not a candidate for sainthood.
Unfortunately, this is at least the third time the A2PD has looked into Lewan. Once for the Gibbons incident, once again when roommate Chris Brown's ex-girlfriend's apartment was trashed and vandalized. Whether he is guilty in these cases or not, there have to be questions about more than his on the field decision making.
..it should be obivous by now that the kid is a bit of a thug.
And maybe it's just me, but the sketchist part of the Buckeye fans story is that Lewan just walked up & punched. I'd imagine that getting clocked in the face by someone that large would put you out cold for awhile.
I don't know about him as a thug. Lewan is a big guy and a football player, which means he is coached to be aggressive and tough. He is also admittadly emotional, which has lead to some questionable acts on the field. Mix in alcohol after an emotional loss and getting harassed by other guys about it and you have a problem waiting to happen. That doesn't mean he should let his emotions get the better of him. I also don't think it makes him a thug. I don't know the guys involved and how many it was versus how many people were with Lewan. It would be hard to rationalize a big guy like Lewan punching a normal sized person unless his words were extremely bad. But, punching a guy that talks sh*t to you is hardly being a thug. Being a thug is more like sucker punching a guy, beating him while he's down, using a weapon, etc. Punching a guy that's talking sh*t is just a run of the mill bar fight. Tough guy nonsense...yes, thug...no IMO.
Assuming the guy was an ass, I'd believe it. Lewan has a long history of donkey punching.
Donkey Punching? I don't think that means what you think that means. Donkey riding, yes.
His alleged quotes from the police report from the Gibbons incident were pretty ugly, too. That whole thing makes me feel not good.
I'm not sure they are even "alleged," as they are taken from the police report that redacts his name, no? Yeah, I'm in the same boat. After I read the stuff surrounding that case, I've had a hard time rooting as fully for Lewan as I did before. The quotes in the police report are pretty god-awful and made me think he's an entitled, bullying prick.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's a quote in the police report, made by Lewan, to the alleged victim: "If [alleged victim] does (press charges) then I'm going to rape [alleged victim], because [Gibbons] didnt." Yeah. Asshole thing to say, to say the least, to someone who may ore may not have been raped by your friend. If you want the redacted part that mentions Lewan, here you go: http://www.washtenawwatchdogs.com/um-police-report.html
Possible role in a fight could range from he was there, to he was attacked, to he was trying to stop it, to he was the perpetrator. It's not like the Ann Arbor police are covering up a serious crime Tallahassee style at this point. I doubt this goes anywhere.
Sometimes you gotta rep yo city...
Bucknuts is going to hit us with "investigative journalism" and no one is going to really dig under the rock of all the shadiness that happened during the Tressel-era?
We are way too passive in this rivalry. I'll bet there are violations galore from Tressel's time that could still stick and are out there to be found with some halfway decent investigative reporting.
Shit. Happens. Everywyere. Thinking that institutional violations just happened at OSU is really naive. Ann Arbor has rocks too.
but all the more reason they should just let it lie as well. Your argument can go both ways. We do a pretty good job on this blog not to go too far into the weeds on stuff that is reported on their program....usually.
I agree with the previous poster who said we are too passive in this rivalry. I'm not suggesting sinking to their level at all, but nothing wrong with being aggressive.
Reading this comment makes me think of this same story as reported by the Columbus Dispatch (HERE), which gives the name of the person making the accusation, mentions Lewan specifically as the person who is being accused of assault and sources Bucknuts. Nowhere in here is there a mention of the comments made by the police Feldscher's piece, which mentions that no charges have been filed and that Lewan was in the vicinity and that the level of involvement is undetermined as yet.
Investigative reporting is fine, but it seems the Dispatch was writing to try and get a reaction and that's what I would think we could all do well to avoid. The contrast in these stories sort of illustrates your point, I would think.
..."the Little Brown Jug restaurant..." Oh well. I won't blame the Dispatch. Bucknuts initiated that error. What we all need to understand is that they are really trying, and that most of the time, they will get most of the facts mostly right.
It's funny, I never really thought about it until you mentioned it. It's "The Jug" or "The Brown Jug." I've never once made the mistake of throwing "Little" in there, which kind of surprises me.
Whatever you want to call it, all I know is I could go for a slice or five of Backroom pizza after looking at that picture.
My guess is that tripped over fence = kicked fence. My guess is also that there were OSU fans mocking and annoying Taylor and friends all night. Perhaps not these exact fans, but OSU fans nonetheless. When they kicked the fence, those OSU fans became saddled with what all OSU fans had done. And so a few paid the price for all. Shit happens.
Show me a guy who wants to fight OSU fans and I'll show you my starting left tackle.
Show me a guy who will turn around and walk away instead of throwing a punch and I'll show you how a senior team captain and NFL draft hopeful should act.
at what point do athletes just because their athletes have to continue to walk away from situations like this. He's human and a man just like the rest us.
Uhh, how about the fact that he has a future riding on not being a moron? It's in his best interest to do so just like it's in my best interest to not have an arrest record when applying for jobs.
all that is true but trust and believe you don't take the stuff that athletes take. nobody can get rich provoking you and then suing you if you react. people know they can say what they want to an athlete because the expectation is that they don't want to risk their careers.
"He's human and a man just like the rest us."
...and the rest of would get charged with assault for punching someone for a verbal altercation.
the rest us wouldn't even be known and most likely would be sent away with a ticket for public intoxication. if a 6'8 300lb man hits u in the face out of no where and h are not knocked unconscious I call bs and then goes back to punch u again in the stomach area come on now.
Um, you walk away because you're not a child on a playground and haven't been for a long time.
And the rest of us are supposed to walk away, too. Idiot.
I love how everyone is ripping on him for getting in a fight when somebody was giving him shit. How quickly we forget about a month ago, when everyone in the media and NFL was calling Jonathon Martin a pussy for not standing up to Incognito and fighting him.
I want to opiate after reading your analysis.
Times sure do change. When I was in college I was a bouncer at the old Village Bell and bar fights on some level were a pretty regular occurance most weekends. Based on that experience plus 35 years of going to bars, here is what I predict probably happened:
1. Drunk OSU fans, giddy over their last second win, celebrate too long and too loudly at the Brown Derby.
2. Drunk OSU fans spot Lewan and start giving him shit at the bar.
3. Taylor, probably drunk himself and obviously pissed at the outcome of the game is in no mood to hear shit from drunken OSU fans at a bar at his school and tells them to shut the fuck up.
4. Drunk OSU fans, being drunk, don't shut up emboldened by both their drunkeness and their buddies.
5. Lewan, being large, strong and pissed kicks shit out of loud, obnoxious, OSU fan or fans.
6. OSU fan or fans, being pussy's, run to hospital first to get their diagnosis of "assult" (read the hospital report - it's pretty amusing) and then the police.
7. OSU fans being not only pussy's but opportunistic pussy's, see opportunity for large civil suit against famous soon to be reach MIchigan football player and lawyer up.
I'm always surprised at some of the comments about how a 22 year old "should" act...as if live is a zero tolerance existence. I'm in the camp that if Lewan "assaulted" a kid, that kid would surely know it. If Lewan did, he will face appropriate punitive actions.
with the word "should" is that it isn't grounded in reality. And only those who were there will know what DID happen, not what should have happened.
stopped out of fear that it wouldn't be taken in the spirit in which it was intended. I'll just give you a real +1 and a virtual +1 for being insightful and a quart low on smug self-righteousness.
Well, actually, there is good reason to believe that "should" IS grounded in reality. It's pretty controversial to say it isn't.
Agree to disagree
It's not a matter of agreement or not. It is controversial, which is a fact. I haven't given an opinion at all.
Of a word in the dictionary is not controversial no matter how many links you throw at me.
"Used to indicate what is probable." I.e. hasn't happened yet. Not rooted in reality.
Go ahead and have the last word if you want. I'm done.
I will take you up on your offer to have the last word, thanks!
A few things: the use of the word "should" that's relevant to this discussion is the one dealing with what one morally ought to do, not probability.
Second, the dictionary simply isn't the authority on what is and isn't reality, and it is absolutely not the authority on philosophical discourse.
Third, the links I threw at you were directly related to what we were talking about and from a highly credible source. No need to throw a hissy fit because your post wasn't as clever and decisive as you had hoped.
Unless the Bucknuts report is a complete fabrication including the claim video camera footage there is no evidence that the accusers did anything to justify the assault. The supposed difference between Michigan and the rest of the world is we expect better and do not tolerate this behavior. If the allegations are true I would hope we would differentiate ourselves from the 99% that would just sweep this issue under the rug.
than everyone else. Sorry to burst your bubble, rain on your parade and be a buzzkill, but it is true.
Are you talking about football recently or what?
I just keep wondering, since you called them "pussy's" in the possessive, if there is some mysterious individual actually named "pussy" that would claim ownership of these fools, or perhaps you meant it in a philosophical sense. That just being heterosexual males, and considering all we do for the "pussy" as one giant singular theoretical collective of poon, we are figuratively "owned" by it. Hmm. We may never know.
Next year. I am seriously down to put all of the talk aside and get a massive group of Wolverines together to take over their bars in C-bus. Let's face it, their hostility towards us has kept us out of that city. Until we prove we are not afraid to follow our team in the road to C-bus and make a statement they will continue to have the upper hand psychologically.
Afraid? Who the hell is afraid? Just because I choose not to drink from a toilet bowl doesn't make me afraid too!
w/physicality and toughness
Make sure you execute
It's all about pad level.
I'll be there. If they're going to bring 25K to Ann Arbor every other year, we need to start doing the same in Columbus.
Michigan trying to invade an opposing team stadium. When was the last time that happened?
I am in. Sounds like the News Team Brawl, only if I can use a trident like Brick Tamland
Go get 'em, Patton Oswalt.
they realize he punched osu fans, they fit in that punch a pedo and your innocent category.
I'll be thankful once Lewan is gone. Too much smoke around this kid for my liking. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
Me too - something's not right with this boy.
this is not the kind of leadership this team needs. Leadership is one area Michigan was poor in this year.
How the hell do we know leadership was poor for Michigan this season? We werent in the locker room, at practice, or on the field for games this year... Now I am not saying that we had good leadership, bc I don't know. But to just say we had poor leadership without any reason is stupid.
have to be in the locker room to notice the lack of leadership on the team this year, it was evident all over the football field.
To give him some credit, Taylor did say after Akron, UCONN, PSU and MSU'S that the Seniors (including himself) were doing a piss-poor job at leading.
The Bucknuts story sounds damning, but it leaves open a lot of questions. If this was an unprovoked assault outside of a bar with the accused standing next to the police while being identified by the victims why were there no arrests. Bucknuts implies that the Ann Arbor cops just wanted to protect Lewan. That doesn't make sense for many reasons including the following:
1. The A2 Cops have filed charges against Darryl Stonum, Marlin Jackson, Brian Griese, and Red Berenson in past years -- why would their policy change for Lewan
2. Also, the A2 cop would face internal discipline, public criticism and the department potential liability for doing nothing to investigate an assault if the facts were clear, whereas hauling the accused off to the city hall to be processed and possibly held over night would cost them nothing.
3. There were apparently a lot of people out that night. We've heard nothing from any of them. If it really happened in such a public place and it was clear that Lewan was involved, it would amazing if no one put it on Facebook or Twitter.
Any number of things are possible, but I think without charges being filed or anything else concrete taking any action against Lewan would be premature.
One other factor is a bit difficult to swallow. If you're a police officer and you want to "protect" a person from charges you do not hang out with them and keep them on the scene of the incident. You tell them that things will go best for them if they slip away and get out of the public eye for the rest of the night. Because they will. It's really hard to believe that a cop would want to cover for Lewan, but not know this basic tactic.
Which makes parts of the Bucknuts story hard to believe. (Beyond the simple fact that it's a BuckNuts story, which seems to be a not-credible source.)
In any event, it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. I hope that Lewan is not guilty of anything wrong here, but I hope much more that the A2PD is not giving UofM athletes free passes where members of the general public would not get the same. If Lewan really cold-cocked this fan, then he deserves to be punished the same as anyone else would.
Final note - if a cop decides to not make an arrest after a bar fight it does not necessarily imply dereliction of duty. Police officers have discretion to let things slide based on their experience and the circumstances of an offense. Quick bar fights are prime examples of this, especially if there are no serious injuries (b/c usually both combatants are about equally guilty). Not every incident merits an arrest, even if punches are thrown.
yawn. Sounds like a typical Saturday night in Ann Arbor. Guess what if you went to a bar on a Saturday, then you were in the area of a bar fight. Sounds like bucknut hearsay. nonstory
There's an argument to be made for "boys will be boys/football players in fights since dawn of fights". That's fine. You can make that argument.
There's also an argument to be made for 22 years old is no longer "young and dumb" excuse territory. Especially for someone that is supposed to be a leader and captain of a varsity college team and heading to the NFL.
I don't fault anyone for arguing the former, but I would hope at Michigan we have more people arguing the latter.
In fact, I'm not too upset/worried about the fight part of it. What in Lewan's mind made him think it was a good idea to head out to the Jug after that game? That's not the greatest judgment in the world. Perhaps that's a night you just chill with your housemates and kill a 30 rack.
Don't forget, the night of the MSU loss (IIRC), Taylor was behind the bar serving up drinks at the Heidelberg. Twitter was exploding with "Taylor Lewan just poured me a beer" stories, as well as a few less flattering accounts that made him sound like a jackass...
Right. Plus, this is not the first police investigation Lewan has been a part of. I mentioned the previous one, but removed it after I decided I wasn't conveying my point well. And my point was simply that: That Lewan has been involved with several police investigations now.
My 70 year old Mom went to a UofM game in Ohio wearing her Michigan Coat. Two guys in a group of 10 yelled go bucks at her. She yelled Go Blue back. They promptly threw two beers on her. None in the group did a thing but laughed. I will always believe a majority of them are dirt.
That's go time invitation here in the GWN.
Are you serious? 1 on 10? Must be a lotta folks dying up there in Canada from blunt force trauma after getting mob-beaten. Sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor.
This is a fan-base that was/is proud of Marcus Hall's actions after being ejected for his role in a fight...
A fan-base that views Woody Hayes, a grown man renowned for sideline tantrums and punching an opposing player, as a deity.
I think we all know damn well that if this were ANY OSU player, their fanbase would largely respond "I'm glad he did!" This is by no means an endorsement of Lewan's alleged actions. I just find it rather humorous to see how sentiments change once tables are turned.
They certainly do seem to be the type of bunch that embraces fights and is awfully proud of that fact, but now that they're the ones on the receiving end they are crying about it.
All true on their fan base Dub. Tressel lies to the NCAA and they carry him off the field as a hero. They have sepsis from the top down.
Taking a look around this topic will show a number of Michigan fans who are acting in the exact same way as you are describing.
I think the saying about glass houses applies in this situation...
So an over 21 year old college student cannot go out for drinks on the Weekend! Accusations from a couple of drunk OSU fans doesn't really show proof that Lewan was involved.
Even in metro Kansas City when I've went with friends to watch Michigan games we would run into rude and obnoxious buck nut fans! I'm too old and too responsible to get into bar fights but a few of the bucknut fans came close one night getting me in self defense mode!
like why was Taylor outside in a short-sleeve shirt in below freezing weather?
Maybe he was emulating Brady Hoke?
anyone knows that red shirts aren't long for this world. </starTrekNerdOut>
perhaps you are emulating an asshat?
I have seen plenty of college kids underdressed when they go out this time of year. Most of them are 110 pound girls not 300 pound men.
Yeah, you read the Bucknuts report and it is a slew of "I was just minding my own business" and "everyone around us was ignoring the facts". It just reads like a couple of idiots who got drunk, probably got into a fight, and then are trying to piece together a juicy story for some stupid reason. I'm sure Taylor Lewan is not above getting into bar fights, but the facts surrounding this circumstance are extremely suspect.
And more generally, can people around here stop acting piously about incidents like this. People who want to believe that Lewan is somehow a major cause of this season's struggles will point to this as proof he is a thug, despite little evidence that "leadership" was the major missing ingredient during the year. People who unabashedly love UM act like Lewan was in the UGLi all night and wasn't anywhere near the incident.
When I was at UM, you'd hear stories about random linemen and safeties knocking guys out at random parties, the famous tales of Griese stumbling out of bars, etc., and I guess I just took it as par for the course. LOTS of college students get into fights, get drunk, etc. at times, but because they are 5'10" and 175lbs and are History majors nobody cares. Girls will rip hair out of each other's heads and you don't see it on the news. But for some reason, a bunch of massive guys who are easily singled out by rowdy drunks get treated like morally bankrupt criminals because they don't walk away every time. It just seems silly to me, and that isn't the same as condoning it.
This particular story seems incredibly illogical and silly; doesn't mean similar events have occurred and will occur in the future with other players. With the calendar turning hopefully 2014 will be a bit better for UM faithful, but the "concerned fandom" act some are portraying should be left in 1960, er 2013, where it belongs.
I really don't care. They guy got in a bar fight. His season is over in less than a week and off to the NFL he goes. This won't change his draft status.
As a fanbase the Buckeyes have zero credibility. Most will lie to themselves and others to justify their idiocy. No charges have been filed because either others have not corroborated the bucknut's story or their are too many inconsistencies. Maybe the drunk bucknut just fell off his cooler and hit his own face and Lewan, in the vicinity, laughed at him.
Anyone remember when some guy accused Marlin Jackson of hitting him in the face with a bottle? Didn't have any evidence to back it up. Everyone that was there backed Marlin's side of the story. But it didn't stop the guy from dragging his name through the mud for a while before backing off and dropping the charges.
Well, the guy then popped back up right before the NFL Draft to start making the accusations again and he filed a civil case against Marlin. Marlin fought back and won defimation case against the guy and was awarded more than $200,000.
The moral of the story is obvious, but that doesn't mean people know that story. Wouldn't be surprised at all if someone targeted a future NFLer in a bid to get rich quick. Especially if it was a drunk OSU fan targeting a Michigan player.
Wasn't there. Don't know what happened. But this is just what popped into my head as I read the Bucknuts article and how it differed from more reputable sources. Even if you didn't know what Taylor Lewan looked like, uhhh, he is 6-8, 300+ pounds. Kind of stands out a bit.
You know nobody on the team took him seriously? I get that he's a bit of a hothead, but unless you know something more than most I don't see how you can assume the struggles of this team were due to a lack of leadership and, I don't know, a misguided offensive philosophy, poor recruiting, and stunted player development in addition to other issues.
Don't be obtuse. That's not what he was saying at all, and you know it. What he's saying is that he has been on campus the past 4 years, or has spoken to people who have, including those in the athletic department, and the general consensus is that Lewan is a bit of a jerk who parties too much for the taste of some of his teammates. You don't buy it, that's cool, but don't twist what he's saying.
Ohio State fans report "assault" by high-profile Michigan player? I'm suuuure they're being 100% honest and above board.
David Brandon just mumbled something about "Rodriguez recruits"
Lol. Well done.
Speculation from this thread leads me to believe that Lewan was likely getting (verbally) harassed by OSU fans, in an AA establishment, of course.
Which kinda gets under my f'ing skin a bit. There's no friggin' way, NONE, that the OSU contigent at a bar in Columbus would allow a group of UM fans to torment/harass one of their players. Not a chance. That matter would be settled and done long before it escalated.
Of course, OSU's recent domination over us has given them a really annoying sense of entitlement. They treat Ann Arbor like a northern extension of Columbus. And hey...there's not much we can do about that until we actually start winning this game once in a while again.
Note that I am NOT excusing Lewan's conduct (if he did do what was alleged). NOT at all.
Just win in Columbus in 2014, guys. Just do it.
What makes you think that the fans "allowed" it to happen? I don't think we should use Ohio State fans as a barometer for good fanhood or how our fanbase should act.
All I'm saying is that if that happened in Columbus, the harrassment would last all of 3.5 seconds before those folks were booted out of the establishment or otherwise dealt with.
Fine with it, if it was osu fans then they were running their mouth, I ran into many arrogant, cocky, asshole buckeye fans that Saturday. We will kick their ass next season.
This is called Karma, doesn't Ohio have some stupid song about karma anyways? Or was that Radiohead?
Karma for what?
Running your damn mouth. Let's not pretend they did nothing in this whole ordeal...now you sound like your hero that you carried off the field last year, the same guy who has/had cheated most of his coaching career.
First, I don't know how you can say I sound like Jim Tressel after I simply asked "Karma for what". The "hero" the players carried off the field, the guy who you say cheated most of his career, the guy who beat....I'll stop right there.
I'm not pretending the people in this story didn't do anything. I know my own fanbase and I hate most of them. I've seem a few, not all, make fools of themselves on the road from going to games in Madison to College Station. I've also seen well manner fans as well, so I won't create an image that belies their innocence in Ann Arbor nor confirm what you think they did.
Lastly, there is Karma in order for running my damn mouth as to why you want to beat OSU next season? Lol. I think you might want to take up your karma problems with those Buckeyes you ran into, not a random poster on the Internet.
The much larger point I was making is why did karma exist following a rivalry game. I guess I got my answer. See you in Columbus next year!
in Columbus, a streak starts in the other direction next year. You've had the better team the last 2, yet have squeeked by the youngest team in the B1G. It's coming to an end soon my friend. As far as Karma, you said it, most of your fans are a-holes, they run their mouth a lot and hardly get punished. You are right, see you in Columbus next year!
This happened a few weeks back now. Don't we think if Lewan really was guilty of something Hoke would have suspended him by now? Hoke doesn't seem like the type only to suspend a guy that's getting publicity to make the media/fans happy, no? I get the feeling if Lewan violated team rules he'd be suspended the day after it happened. To me this means there may not be much there.
Well... boys will be boys yknow
Seriously though... read the Bucknuts article... not looking so hot for Taylor and the AA PD. Id be a bit surprised if Taylor was suspended since this thing is only just now out there, with the game in four days. His draft stock is more likely the concern after this, not that I think it will take a huge hit. I think it was already out there that he can be an asshole, as much as I love the guy.
I was conflicted when i read the bucknuts account, part of me knew it was all so wrong... the other part of me was like yeah, kick his ass, god knows the do they same kind of dirt ball shit to our people in Columbus.
Okay, so what Suckeye fan would be walking around downtown AA after they just beat Michigan. Looking for trouble. nah...
A Michigan fan would be smart enough to stay out of colonumbus after a football game.
This feels like "football players at bar, fight breaks out, let's presume the biggest guys started it" kind of story. If nobody got arrested and the incident happened weeks ago, I'd chalk it up to a bunch of college kids getting into an argument and move along.
That's pretty much what the cops initially did
Campus. When you go South to the toilet bowl your grandma couldn't walk the streets in blue. The most classless people on this planet. Actually, it doesn't a "maize" me sense we have common sense and class. I hope he clocked someone since they probably were assaulting our fans. I call it even.
BTW, this might be silly, but the Bucknuts links to a medical form that says the accuser's diagnosis was "ASSAULT". Last time I checked, that isn't a medical condition, but does anyone know if that is an actual statement UM medical center would even put on a discharge form?
It was put on the patient's Discharge Instructions. Now "Discharge Instructions" do not equate with "the medical record" as asserted by the Bucknuts staff writer(s).
Yeah; "Assault" never was and never will be any sort of diagnosis. I don't know if it could possibly be some billing or medical records shorthand within the hospital, but I frankly doubt it. To whatever extent that Bucknuts wanted to use that page of the Discharge Instructions to prove that an assault actually occurred, it is just bullshit. There is undoubtedly a real medical record, and it hasn't been posted. The real medical record has a history (the patient's version), a physical examination report, laboratory and imaging results if any, a REAL diagnosis, a record of treatment, and a final disposition for the patient. The "diagnosis" of "assault" is bullshit, I am sorry to say to the UMMC emergency staff. I expect that those records may be reviewed by the investigating officers. I'd absolutely expect the medical staff to say that all they know about any "assault" is what the OSU fan told them.
btw; if anybody is suggesting that the document posted by Bucknuts has been forged or falsified... UMMC does electronic medical record-keeping and they would likely have an e-copy as well as a hard copy. (He probably signed Page 2; all we were shown is Page 1). And it would be obvious if there had been any alteration. I can't imagine such an alteration. But I also absolutely reject any "diagnosis" of "assault."
It's inconceivable that the ER docs, whose names are on the purported discharge instructions, would make a primary diagnosis of "assault." It isn't a clinical diagnosis, and without a clinical diagnosis and the corresponding ICD-9-CM diagnostic codes (which are used for billing), UMMC and the doctors won't be paid.
The only codes for assaults in ICD-9-CM are E codes, which are supplementary codes intended to provide statistical data about the external causes of injury and poisoning for research on injuries and prevention strategies. As a research center, UMMC may use E codes (they aren't mandated by the Healthcare Finance Administration and generally aren't used) but E codes are explicitly "never to be used as a primary diagnosis code."
Medical records are legal documents; altering or falsifying them is unlawful. I know nothing about possible penalties for altering discharge documents and publishing on the internet. But I'm certain the doctors would detest being used to sully a reputation.
"Contusions" might be a diagnosis. Doesn't make much sense for that would be on there. But if that is legitimately on the form, it still doesn't actually mean anything.
If a patient comes in and says he needs to be treated because he was assaulted, it’s not like the hospital is going to send out it’s crack team of investigators to check out the crime scene and interview witnesses. Unless there is obvious evidence that he is lying, I imagine they just write down what they are told.
So the Bucknuts story is that these poor innocent OSU fans, pure as the snow in their actions and of course completely sober, did not see the fence outside The Brown Jug and one of them tripped over it. Then Lewan, like a wild preditor sensing vulnerability, savagely attacked them.
Isn't the fence they're referring to like three and a half feet tall? That's well above the hip line on an average person. How would you trip over top of that. It doesn't even sound possible. Did Manute Bol come back to life as an Ohio State fan?
Seriously, how could a sober person miss this and trip over it?
I think it's no coincidence that we appeared to lack senior leadership on the field this season and the fact that Taylor Lewan was a senior captain. I expect him to be held to higher standard than not just the general student body, but the rest of the football team. His name has been on 3 separte police reports involving serious crimes now. He's been rumored to be drunk at bars and acting out in the past.
Think about it for a minute, a captain of the Michigan Wolverine Football team is out drinking late at night after the biggest game of the year, he's then accused of beating up on much smaller guys. Just not the level of leadership I expect from a team captain.
If he gets charged with a crime this week, I do not want him playing Saturday night. Doubt this gets sorted out before then though. Maybe Hoke should talk to him and supsend him regardless, I don;t know.
I don;t know.
His name has been on 3 separte police reports...
Is that Italian?
you didn't hear about the nuns he beat up in Rome last year?
He isn't going to be charged without being interviewed. Without a charge, he won't be suspended. He isn't returning to A2 after the game, and his agent will be hiring an attorney if one is needed. You don't have to worry yourself about him any longer, the streets are safe.
Can't hear you all the way up from Mount Pious
have not shown a pattern of looking the other way where Michigan athletes are concerned. In my unhumble opinion, it seems extremely unlikely that Lewan would not have been arrested and booked if he commited an assault on an unsuspecting and innocent person.
In any event, Lewan enjoys the presumption of innocence and all of us are best served by letting the legal process proceed. If he proves to be guilty of assault, then he should pay the same price as anyone else, if not then he deserves better than being trashed by "fans" of the program.
I understand that some here don't like him and/or feel that he fell short in his role as a team captain. The simple fact is that he walked away from millions of dollars to play another year at Michigan. Look into your hearts and ask yourselves if you'd have done the same. From my perspective, Lewan literally put his money where his mouth is, and that buy him a great deal of credibility in my book.
I was leaning the other way before I just read this.
Yes, Lewan does appear to be the typical jock\jerk. That said, I don't think that the AAPD would ever give him a break.
He seems to have no character at all. Add this to the fact that he threatened the rape victim and he obviously hasn't learned how to be a good human being. Excited for him to leave the team.
There was a "rape vicitm"? Do tell us who was charged in that "rape." And tell us how Lewan comunicated any "threat" to that "victim."
And since it's silly to play games with rhetorical questions, and since we know that there were never any charges in the Gibbons case, where do you get off talking about "rape victims"?
I'm not sure I get your point; are you saying that as long as nobody is charged with a crime that there isn't a victim? No one here knows what exactly happened on the night that gave rise to the allegations against Gibbons, but to summarily say that there was no victim isn't just short-sighted, it's downright idiotic. Our criminal justice system is a long way from perfect, guilty people are not charged or go free all the time
It goes both ways. I think you are taking his words out of context. Even the people involved may have different perceptions of what happened. That is frequently the case and why you are allowed to have a jury that is supposedly unbiased.
Of course it goes both ways, I wasn't trying to say that Gibbons definitely raped someone or that Lewan definitely threatened her, but to say there was no victim because there were no charges filed as if it's a matter of fact is just asinine. None of us know what happened that night, myself included
I never said that gibbons and lewan are guilty of anything; I said that it's dumb to definitively claim that there was no victim because no charges were filed. The fact is that none of us know what happened, and the guy to whom I replied definitively stated that nothing happened. Since he can't possibly know that for a fact, I called him out on it
..."he threatened the complaining witness..." That way, there is no unwarranted presumption that there was a "rape" (never charged, and certainly never proven) and no "victim" (isn't there a "perpetrator" for every "victim"?)
But oh hell, why not let's just go with the straight-up fact that Lewan, by all reasonable accounts didn't "threaten" anybody at any time. Lewan was pissed off that his teammate was being accused of a very serious crime. One that for whatever reason, Lewan seems to have known was a bullshit allegation. And for all that I know -- with no chareges aver having been referred for prosecution -- Lewan was exactly right and knew all along that he was right. So he was pissed off. And in a moment of candid anger, to friends, and not the complaining witness, said words to the effect that 'if she presses charges I'll rape her because [my teammate] didn't.'
...that's what a gentlemen would say?
Unfortunately, the truth of the allegations will probably never be known. But I count myself among those disappointed that Lewan's skills as an athlete don't seemed to be matched by his comportment and leadership.
I'm pretty sure that until someone is convicted, the correct term is always "alleged victim."
I love you S1, but I am going to call you out on your use here of semantics. You're skewering the guy for leaving out the word "alleged." So hey, I just did it for him. And the things Taylor allegedly said to the alleged victim of the alleged sexual assault were the kinds of things that you'd be ashamed of if it were your son, to say the least. Gibbons was never charged, obviously. But I'm sure you've read it (the redacted police report). EDIT: you were right in your response, above- not said directly to her, but conveyed to her (please don't get me down in the weeds on "conveyed," counsel; it's Christmas, and I'm not working today, you shouldn't be either).
EDIT: you were right in your response, above- not said directly to her, but conveyed to her (please don't get me down in the weeds on "conveyed," counsel; it's Christmas, and I'm not working today, you shouldn't be either).
So yeah, that is exactly what I was going to say in reply. Perusing the world of Lewan-haters on the internet, it seemed to me that about half the illiterate world somehow had gotten the notion that Lewan was a fugitive rapist, and the other half (with a merely dangerous level of reading comprehension) somehow thought that Lewan had contacted the witness directly and made a direct threat to her safety and well being.
So yeah, I think that what I wrote was sarcastic, and dismissive... and exactly right.
In no way did Lewan "theaten" that woman. At least in no way that any sensible person would understand it. He never spoke to her, never emailed her and never contacted her in any other way that I know of. By all known accounts including the police report, Lewan didn't know what she even looked like.
Did he admit to saying it, to anyone? Yes.
That is enough for me.
I think that is far from being proven. Most posters have given opinions. You've crossed the line to state that an allegation, for which there were no charges, is true.
You're a fool making claims based on rumors.
I didn't ready all of the posts on this thread, so I apologize if it's been covered already.
I noticed reading through that Bucknuts article was the age of "the victims". I'm pretty sure it mentioned that one of the guys that was "attacked" was 29 years old. It just doesn't pass the smell test...A couple of Ohio degenerates that are quite a bit older than the typical 18-24 crowd you'd see decide to get hammered and stroll through downtown AA to run their yaps to Wolverine fans. After "tripping over a 3 1/2 foot fence" as an above poster pointed out, one guy somehow manages to get socked not once, but twice when he is quite a ways down the street....like after the first punch (that you somehow survived) you'd try your luck by hanging around to get smashed AGAIN? I'm not the kind of guy to back away from a fight, but lets be honest with ourselves here. 6'8, 308 lbs and probably incoherent/rowdy due to the booze does not add up to a winnable fight in my book. This whole story is rigged, it can't possibly have went down that way. These morons want to sue Taylor and try collecting a fee when he turns pro, that has to be what is going on here.
And I hope those 2 punches left a permanent mark.
By their play on the field. If you think some alleged bar fight has anything to do with being a football team captain, you just don't know a thing about team sports. Mind you, Lewan is 22 and I don't recall making the best decisions myself at that age. And if he did blast some OSU dbag in the face, I guarantee you the guy deserved it, and I'd be smiling ear to ear if I find out it's true. Judge me all you want, I don't give a shit, but that's how I feel.
Taylor Lewan after practice -- "I didn't hit anybody". More later on this re recent allegations/police probe
— angelique (@chengelis) December 25, 2013
Lewan said he was not going to get into details but: "I wasn't in any fight, I didn't hit anybody I was really trying to break up something"
— angelique (@chengelis) December 25, 2013
I would buy him a beer and thank him for playing his senior season. He risked injury this pas season giving up his first round NFL draft in January! He stayed for his degree and he thought playing for Michigan was more valuable then NFL cash! To me that showed his true devotion to Michigan. I think he's a great leader and did a great job despite having young interior lineman. I also believe Lewan over some drunk buck nuts!
if in fact thats where they ended up, checked their blood alchohol levels