If there's one thing that family struggles with, it's keeping their heads on straight. That's their biggest problem. Maybe if he went somewhere on the East Coast and got rid of his phone and email account.
Tate Not Transferring to Miami (YTM)
Any chance he comes back to us?
That was actually the first thing I thought of when I read the article, but if grades were the issue of him leaving, I don't think so. Especially with everything that happened between the Forciers and Brandon. I wouldn't complain if he did, though
If memory serves, the 1996 season was spent with a QB by the name of Griese off the team for disciplinary reasons.
People DO change every now and then. Redemption is possible.
Just saying I'd like to have him back if possible.
Very good point - I'd love to see him mature and be able to be back on the team. We'd have three very good QB's on the roster and with Morris, probably wouldn't have to worry about getting one this year
I don't think he would be worth the scholorship spot tbh, we have 3 qbs now, his elidgability would be done same as denards (unless he redshirts his JR year) . way to much talent were in play for this year to give up a scholorship that could go to a freshmen at a position of need or a prospect QB with full elldigablity left.
We do have Russell Bellomy.
But Russell Bellomy is going to be a true freshman who has never played a down of college football. Not that he doesn't have potential, but personally, if Denard goes down to injury (I am not even going to address the whole "if he doesn't fit the offense" because in my opinion that is crap - Denard has a great arm, great speed and probably more talent than 90% of starting QBs, so he will be fine in any offense), I would be much more comfortable having Tate as the back-up to Devin than Bellomy. Hell, if Denard goes down, I would be more comfortable having Tate start.
Not me. I would much rather give the freshman a shot. Tate had his chance, and scholarships are hard to come by.
But a true frosh who didn't enroll early is not exactly what you want to rely on at QB. I don't normally worry too much about who is 3rd on our depth chart, but given the time DR has missed in the past, a solid 3rd option would be nice to have. That said, it's still "nice to have", and not OMG, DOOM, if Kennedy/Bellomy is the QB of last resort.
if you need to go to 3rd (which would most likely be Bellomy by mid season if not at the beginning of the season) on your depth chart for anything but mop-up your season is pretty toast anyway...
Being two compotent QBs away from disaster is actually 1 more QB than most teams have.
Be real careful with that. None of them is a proven pocket passer...having a guy like Forcier ready to go might not be such a bad thing. The Tate-Denard tandem was pretty effective at times last year.
I can't tell if you're replying to my post (after page 1, the formatting of the thread gettings a little weird on my computer), so if you're not, whoops.
Don't get me wrong, having Forcier back would help with depth and I would appreciate having him as a back-up. But the mentality that QB depth is a problem is off, in my opinion. Michigan has an excellent starter and an up-coming, presumably compotent back-up. I'm not saying they should turn a 3rd QB away or anything, but QB does not have a scary lack of depth (as I've heard many people describe it).
Also, is Forcier a "proven pocket passer?" Yes he's a polished passer, but he's pretty little to camp out in the pocket.
When he was our starting QB we all knew he was very impatient in the pocket. I wouldn't exactly call him a QB with pocket presence.
I don't believe he missed any games.
Griese was definitely on the team in 1996, he lost the starting job to a newly-healthy Dreisbach, before replacing him at the end of season. So if Griese was disciplined, he was never off the team (at least not during the season).
Wasn't Forcier not just off the team but also out of the university? It was my understanding that he had failed out. I guess I never heard that specifically, but he had serious grade issues and then he was gone, so I suppose I just put two and two together.
Was Tate dismissed from the university, or just suspended? I can't remember the details, but a suspension makes sense and perhaps he is trying to at least get back on the academic bandwagon at Michigan before he tries transferring?
Not sure if Greise started the game, but Greise was the one who QB'd UM in the second half when they upset OSU 13-9.
Driesbach played the first half, and then was benched (either due to injury, or ineffectiveness, or a combination of the two) for the second.
My point is clearly stronger with Griese being off the team for the entire year instead of your watered down version of history.
Can we please not confuse this debate with facts?r
I think Griese may have missed spring ball after the Scorekeepers incident, but he was reinstated by August.
After watching the comeback game against Notre Dame in person and then the gritty performance in the loss against Michigan St. my intial thought was "wow...we're gonna be watching this kid lead our program into its next phase". As we all know it didnt exactly turn out that way but I'm guessing Tate felt more robbed than we did. After a very impressive rookie campaign, he thought he had the keys to kingdom (however misguided that self inflated opinion might have been) only to find himself publicly humiliated with a Wingless-helmet and sitting on the bench. He clearly had some growing up to do and some work to put in but I can't imagine the personal feeling of dejection he must have gone through. That's a lot to put on a young kid. He might have been great, he might have been average, he might have been benched in favor of Gardner if Denard didn't pan out, doesn't really matter. All we know is that a young kid had the world at his feet one moment with Sports Illustrated covers and darkhorse Heisman chatter, and in the blink of an eye everything was gone.
It seems to me that the whole "You've got to earn your wings" scheme was a failure. It's like a public shaming, but nobody knows what it was for except the coaches, the player, and maybe his teammates. Meanwhile, everybody on the internet knew which players were wing-less.
If a kid's on the team, he ought to be able to dress the same way as the rest of his teammates. If he has to do extra work to get in the coaches' good graces, then he ought to run some extra sprints, come in early, etc.
In my opinion, that's just a bad coaching move on Rodriguez's part.
If you have to chastise or have a yell at someone you should be doing it in private. When you want to praise someone you do it in public. Taking off the wings was a public humiliation and I don't think it is appropriate for some college kids trying to play football and go to school. Any punishments could/should have taken place out of the eye of the public.
and the don't forget the,"Vince Lombardi couldn't make this defense good" episode. I wonder how the kids felt after that?
about experience not talent. That quote was taken way out of centext. I'd expect someone who has been on here as much as you have to be able to disern between what is said and what the talking heads make it sound to be.
It's still something I don't want the head coach to say.
He still shouldn't have expunged such a sloppy mess from his mouth. It is a demoralizing load from any angle, regardless of context. Does the fact that it was about experience and not talent make it any better? Not for me. Still scarily stupid, and wholly unnecessary. From the moment that bologna was uttered, the players were deemed hopeless in the eyes of their head coach - hopeless even with the hypothetical teachings of a legend, Now, that's how you instill fire and confidence in your players and get them motivated to work. Tell them a iconic coach will not be able to make them good this season, so what hope do their shitty coaches have? "Might as well just sit back and let offenses pound you, youngins." But, truly, it didn't matter. The players and all of us knew that the HC thought defenses were merely a bunch of dudes that his offense could practice against, so why should he care if he demoralizes them with his free flowing throat garbage?
Also, I'm only here to post hilarious movies and photos, so I rarely read the latest apologies for a certain person's action and speech.
was well written and I agree. RR said some pretty unfortunate things at times, and that one was probably the worst. It was self-excusing and insulting to the players. Good job articulating that Mr. Rogers.
by the comment that maybe they'd find a kicker at a rest stop on the way to Pennsylvania. Our kickers had a terrible season, but given half the battle with kicking is confidence, one has to wonder if RR's complaints about the kickers didn't exacerbate the situation.
Yeah, this was not one of his better traits. Whether he intended it or not, there were times when he came off as though he was blaming his players when the team performed poorly. The Zoltan punt fiasco was like this as well. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and say it's your fault as the coach. You're paid the big bucks.
I forgot about that one. Inexusable to insult your players in that manner. Should have said we need to be a much better job coaching the kickers, and avoid trashing those poor guys like that.
don't let that leadership meme from NROTC influence you. /s
Actually, I agree, keeping it within the fort is the right thing to do. On the other hand, I don't think the coaching staff intended for the "earning your wings" thing to be public. They screwed up though, and should have issued winged helmets when BTN came to town.
Everybody mentions ND '09. There's also Illinois '10. I think if Tate hadn't had the experience he had in OT against MSU in '09 -- if Denard had been playing in OT for the first time -- that Illinois game may have turned out differently.
It was obvious at the end of the UConn game that Tate was sitting there thinking wtf happened? How did I get here? Not an easy realization to overcome at his age, in his position. So, I hope Tate gets his act together and goes on to succeed somewhere else.
Lol thanks for reminding me, been a long time.
I hope he gets his head together and gets to play somewhere else as well.
it meant something to be on the Michigan football team.
I agree with your take, however.
This - RR was blamed for not "getting" Michigan, and yet this showed he knew at least one thing special about Michigan. It's not like Bo was known for going soft on people. I imagine Bo justice on a self-involved player who didn't put in the work would have been equally harsh, if not as public.
And anyway, how is the wingless helmet thing any worse (or any different) than the "Golden Lophers" T-shirts Jerry Kill made some of his players wear? He was, generally, roundly praised for those.
The next test for Jerry Kill is whether he can utilize a Twitter feed without TRY FIGHT WIN-type substance all over the place.
As far as I know, Jerry Kill hasn't proven to be a success at Minnesota. So it's not quite clear if that worked or not.
Even if Bo would have done something like that, though, he wouldn't necessarily be able to do that in 2010 or 2011. Times are changing. You just can't embarrass or ride kids like you used to be able to. Just ask Craig James how he feels about that...
The "Earn Your Wings" thing may have been Bo-like, but it might not work for Bo now, either.
Then, just in case anybody missed him going wingless why dont we have him THINK he's the #2 QB for the Conneticut game and when Denard goes down for a series have him warm up and just as he's ready to run in grab Devon and send him in instead.
That ought to drive the point him to the entire world that he's done something bad. Public humiliation on that scale is uncalled for regardless of the incident. If it was that bad he should've been tossed from the team and not subjected to that.
I lost a lot of respect for RR as a person when he did that to him.
Thats not public humiliation, thats football coaching. Maybe he thought devin was a better player at that point in time, or, like someone else said, maybe Tate did something really stupid. Something so stupid it caused him to miss gametime
It’s clear RR did not think Gardner was actually better than Forcier, because Gardner was never used where the game was on the line. He played a grand total of three meaningless snaps vs. UConn and Notre Dame, and then mop-up duty vs. Bowling Green. He was never seen again. When Denard went down vs. Illinois with the outcome in doubt, it was Forcier who got the call.
I therefore have to think the demotion to 3rd string was mainly to get Forcier's head in gear, and not because Rodriguez actually thought that Gardner was the better QB to go in and win a game. If Gardner doesn't get his medical redshirt, the relatively limited action he saw, just for the purpose of disciplining Forcier, starts to look awfully costly.
Then tell him before the game. I have to respectfully disagree that leading a player to believe they are the back-up and then putting someone else in instead is NOT coaching....it's a person taking advantadge of their position of power over someone else to publically humiliate them.
IMO "coaching" would've been to pull him aside and tell him before the game that you arent playing no matter what. Letting him think he's the back-up and having him warm up and then putting Devon in was nothing short of cruel and served no purpose.
FWIW, I don't think we actually know what Forcier was told prior to the game. He could have been told he would be 3rd string. He might not have been.
But I agree that it's not "football coaching" to surprise somebody like that. Communication is key in being a leader. Coaches are obviously leaders, so if they're poor communicators, that's bad news.
He was warming up on the sidelines and had put his helmet on. Clearly HE thought he was 2nd string so if there was communication to him prior to the game it was poorly done at best.
While you are correct in saying we don't know what was said pre game I think it's safe to say, based on Tate's actions when Denard went down, that he considered himself #2 (as did Devon if you view his inaction the in the same light as Tate's actions).
I know you coach football and i have as well in my past. If you do that to one player you send a powerful and negative message to the rest of the team that you might be next.
What makes you think Tate wouldn't have considered himself the #2 (or #1) even if he had been told he was the #3? We can't know for sure either way, but in a tossup between "Tate feeling entitled" and "RR being explicitly dishonest" I'd lean toward the former.
There's a fine line when it comes to a player's mentality.
Forcier should have worked during the off-season like he had something to prove. There's lots of evidence to suggest that he thought he was on top of the world and didn't have to be a great student, citizen, etc.
HOWEVER, Forcier also had every reason to expect to be no lower than #2 on the depth chart. You don't take a 12-game starter and demote him to #3 - behind a true freshman, no less - without fully explaining what's going on and why. If that didn't happen, then it should have. Players need to know what to expect. Otherwise, there are going to be issues.
I am not looking to continue the whole RR debate, but how much of Tate's downfall is a result of (1) the toxic environment that took over our team last year, and (2) RR's handling of the whole QB issue.
Obviously, Tate had a ton of maturing to do. Growing up with an overbearing father and being partially home-schooled will do that to you. But, I really do agree with the sentiment that many expressed that RR completely mis-handled Tate in relation to the 2010 season. The whole losing his wings thing was not only publicly humiliating, but it is not the way to bring a team together. Ditto for putting Devin in against UConn just to make a point (putting aside the complete idiocy of buring a RS for a few snaps!).
Part of being a coach is knowing how to handle different players. Some players respond well to being berated on the sidelines (as RR did in 2009 to Tate), losing their wings and being publicly shamed into being good citizens. Others, those that are less mature or are a bit more fragile in the who psyche, may respond to that type of discipline by coming unglued altogether.
To me, Tate had great talent, but he was simply not managed well. Much of that is on Tate, of course, but much of it is on RR, as well. I wonder how Tate would have responded had RR called him into his office, and calmly handed him signed transfer papers saying "perhaps this is in your best interest, since you obviously don't want to be a Michigan Man" as Lloyd did to Braylon.
RR isn't the only one that had a falling out with the Forciers though - apparently Dave Brandon did as well. And that family is clearly a bit whack. And this whole "transferring to Miami - not really" seems to indicate that they're still a bit loopy. Finally, Tate's ultimate downfall wasn't lack of playing time or attitude in the weight room, it was failure to do his homework - and that's on Tate.
Yes, it's important to manage lots of different personalities if you're a football HC, but some kids are unmanageable, and you can't hurt the team to keep one guy happy. RR probably played a role, but at least from what we've seen, I'd say it's maybe 10% RR 10% circumstance 10% Denard is a beast and a friendly one at that and 70% Tate.
I wasn't saying that Tate and his nutty family are not at fault. My only point is that we may never have gotten to this point - the fallout with DB, the whole failure to do his homework, etc. - had RR handled Tate differently.
I am not claiming to know - although I bet Bacon's book will shed more light on it - about the details of the RR-Tate relationship. But, it makes sense than when you have a kid with a fragile psyche from a sheltered, pressure-filled background, embarassing that kid in front on his teammates (the wings) and then millions of fans on TV (Devin against UConn) may not be the best way to handle the situation. Hell, the kid was coming off of a season where he was on the cover of SI, and was even being mentioned as a Heisman candidate for 1/2 of the season (as a true freshman). Going from that to losing his wings and not even being the back-up had to be next to impossible.