Article is behind paywall. Basically it says that Notre Dame is on a similar time frame as Nebraska and Missouri to let the Big ten know whether it wants to join. If they join, Big Ten expansion stops at 12 teams.
Article is behind paywall. Basically it says that Notre Dame is on a similar time frame as Nebraska and Missouri to let the Big ten know whether it wants to join. If they join, Big Ten expansion stops at 12 teams.
on a cheaper clock than M in their locker room. I hear it's a Walmart special that needs two double A batteries.
They must've upgraded!
I wonder if their first response to being on the clock was "Holy Shit!"
I have to think that with the seemingly inevitable shifting of the NCAA landscape, Notre Dame has to be really thinking hard about joining the Big Ten. How many other conferences will be willing to cap their expansion plans to appease them? Also, this may be their last chance to join the Big Ten. I'm guessing the Big Ten will have no problem finding expansion partners in the even that Notre Dame once again rejects them.
Back the last time ND said no to the Big 10 their faculty voted to recommend joining just b/c of the Big 10's library sharing agreements.
From the ND side of things, I am almost positive those calculations were already completed a good time ago. The results probably initiated the latest, "we are happy being independent" from, coach Kelly and Swarbrick. Unless something drastic has changed in the past week or two, I doubt the answer has changed
Or, do you think they...are the least bit worried with B10 talk expanding to Pac10 talk that ND may be risking being the annual Conference USA champ someday soon, outside the Super Conference new status quo? Or best case crammed into some ill-fitting conference just so a new BCS can have ND in it, but they waited too long to get into the best fit (the how are you enjoying hanging out with SEC fans scenario)?
lol, I have a hard time believing it myself. If the bigten is offering ND first for expansion and will only expand to 12 teams with them, then they must be bringing a seriously amazing deal, or they're just stupid.
The decision to join a conference on ND's end pivots on whether the expansion changes the college football landscape. Adding one team does not do that. If the big ten's only leverage boils down to sending out new offers then they have no leverage at all in getting ND to join. Now if the big ten already has agreements with multiple schools to join and it all comes down to ND's decision then they have a little something to apply pressure with. I don't see anything new that makes me think ND's stance on independence has changed, if the big ten wants ND then they need to add 3-4, or whatever, teams.
I think you are playing checkers when you should be playing chess. Assuming ND is being honest and would always prefer to remain independent short of massive realignment to their detriment, and assuming that they believe the B10 when it tells them they will go to 16 teams if ND does not join (with the invitees being NU, MO and three Big East teams), ND should understand that refusing to join the B10 will cause massive realignment and leave ND exactly where they do not want to be. And further assuming ND would much prefer the B10 to have only 12 teams instead of 16 in the event it is ultimately forced to join (this is what I have read, so maybe it is or is not true), then the only way to get there is to be the first team to join even if it results in quashing (or more likely delaying) massive realignment. If ND waits until massive realignment happens and finally joins only as the 16th team, that is the worst possible result for them. Unless ND has some other trick up its sleeve or believes the B10 or B12/P10 are bluffing, joining the B10 as the 12th team is the best outcome they can achieve.
Additionally, what if the B10 schools stop scheduling ND? This is kind of relevant for ND, which has played, since 2002, Purdue, MSU, and UM each year, and PSU in 04 and 05. Who would replace those teams?
I hear this argument all the time, I just think it would backfire big time. For the same reason the we like to play ND so does everyone else. ND will be able to replace three B10 teams with three comparable teams from other conferences, even if they have to rotate the teams. Moreover, when those games are played as B10 home games, the ratings accrue to the B10 TV contracts. I am sure those games are among the highest ratings games of the season for each B10 team and that is factored into the amount of money we receive from ABC / ESPN. Michigan probably could schedule someone with close to the national appeal of ND every year as a replacememt if they wanted to (e.g., TX, FL, Miami, Alabama, Georgia, UCLA), but I doubt Purdue and Michigan State could. Like it or not, we benefit from playing ND just as much as they benefit from playing us.
<i> ND will be able to replace three B10 teams with three comparable teams from other conferences</i>
No such thing. Comparable to M. What were you thinking, man?
Why would they stop? Three teams from the big ten sell out their stadiums every time ND comes to town, the big ten gets a share of each of those games, The big ten's expansion is fueled by the potential for more revenue and they know that every one of ND's home games would sell out, and every conference game they went to would sell out, they want that money.
If ND is to join, I wouldn't be surprised to see their first conference schedule made up of only teams with the biggest stadiums.
Also playing Wisconsin in 2012 now
UM and MSU sell out regardless, not sure about Purdue. The incremental gate revenue ND *MIGHT* add is not really a lot of coin.
UM attendance varied between 106-110,000 I guess I don't know at which time UM is sold out.
MSU was 71-78,000 and purdue was 47-57,000.
Last year ND was Purdue's biggest home game and was UM's 3rd biggest behind OSU and PSU by only about 450 people, about the same for MSU when we play there. I think thats around 10,000 person difference over 3 games between their average attendance and when ND comes to town.
This is not about putting a few more butts in seats. This is about TV ratings and getting cable providers to put BTN on basic/expanded basic and getting the highest fee per TV Household.
The ND games (when played as B10 home games) are likely some of the most valuable games B10 brings to the table in those negotiations. If you use attendance as a proxy, per Irish's figures, only the OSU and PSU games were more valuable last year. Those games either get picked up by ABC/ESPN or are among the best games shown on BTN. Even when the games are played as ND home games, they are nationally televised, generating great exposure for the B10 teams and enhancing their brands. The B10 would be idiots to drop ND just out of spite or in some sort of pissing contest.
that is a very good point
I don't think you can assume it will automatically become a 16 team conference if ND turns down the big ten. There is no guarantee that the invited teams will agree to the big ten's final terms. They may actually end up adding only 1 or 2 teams in the end.
But if that is ND's strategy, to assume the B10 and B12/P10 are either bluffing or will stop short of 16 teams because they cannot get the teams they invite to agree to final terms, that is one heck of a risk to take with the franchise. It is like playing texas held 'em and going all-in because you think the other guys are bluffing or do not know how to read cards.
I don't think bluffing is the right word, just that it isn't a forgone conclusion that the bigten becomes a super conference if ND doesn't join. IMO the more teams the bigten adds the more likely ND is one of them but there are a ton of ways this could all play out. For all any of us know ND could be in talks to replace Nebraska in the big12 this weekend.
... yet. I know there have been rumors, but I don't believe them. B10 will wait until the last possible moment hoping to get ND. It is possible that Friday is the deadline, because I think NU is the next choice after ND and NU clearly has to make some sort of move by Friday. This is a big game of "chicken" right now. ND really needs to decide how much it matters whether B10 is 12 teams or 16 teams. If they are ok with 16 teams, they probably have more time because I am guessing B10 will pause at 12 post-NU to see what happens with B12/P10. Then, again, maybe they won't. If they want their first pick of the Big East teams, they don't want to caught sitting on their hands only to watch ACC or SEC pick a couple off.
Also, the B10 will go to at least 14 and possibly 16 teams without ND. They would much rather stay at 12 (just like ND). Do you think they really want Rutgers? But, without ND, they need more than one team to make a strong push in the Northeast. Michigan and PSU have a good Northeast presence, but that is not enough. Add ND and maybe BTN has enough. Without ND, they need as many "national" names as possible and some schools closer to NYC. So, if ND is a "no go', B10 takes at least NU and two Big East teams, my guess being Rutgers and Syracuse. It is possible one of those gets swapped out for MO, because St. Louis and Kansas City are in and of themselves valuable, but frankly so is the entire state of New Jersey (population nearly 9 million). And this is how you end up at 16. If B10 decides to take both Rutgers and MO, they probaby go for one more rather than stop at 15. Again, maybe they stop at 15 in a nod to ND thinking that eventually ND will come to their senses. But, at that point, the best ND can do is join B10 as the 16th team. Now, wouldn't it just be easier and smarter for everyone if ND was able to figure this all out now, explain it to the alumni and joins the B10 as team number 12? I know it would save me from banging my head against the wall another couple hundred times while we go the long route.
The best, most logical post I've seen on the topic to date.
One thousand cocktails to you sir.
Pretty sure that is the first time anyone has ever said anything positive to me on here. Usually I just get ass-slapped for not including OT or something similar. Thanks.
A +1 is saying something positive. I'm assuming you have had several of those considering your point total.
If I were Missouri, I'd be concerned right now. They're on the same timeline as Nebraska, and they don't seem to be close to getting offered.
They're the only Tier-2 school under consideration...
How do you define Tier 1 and Tier 2? I asked this yesterday in another thread because this has been said several times. From what I can tell, Nebraska and Missouri are in the same boat academically.
Tier-2 the way I understand it starts around 90. I think the Big Ten is willing to cut Nebraska some slack because of their national appeal. But I don't think they're willing to take two schools that would be the considerably lowest ranked.
Think about it if you are ND. ND is aligned with the big east already in basketball and other applicable sports, the only sport that is in for a drastic change to a conference is Football. ND already has every home football game on national TV, and every away game on basic cable at the worst, as you know. They control their scheduling, their merchandising, they control every aspect of the Notre Dame "Brand" and image. And through the big east agreements have the same bowl buy-ins and a BCS autobid.
The bigten is offering what should be expanded money through revenue sharing (though I wonder how long it would take to payoff the buy-in required to join the bigten network), a network which might provide the same coverage they already have in the future. They lose the majority of their scheduling control. Their merchandising and image is no longer their own, they become a part of the bigten, or whatever it is called after this. The bowl situation doesn't become more positive and if anything could be worse with more teams and the same number of bowl games.
The positives appear to be higher football revenue, and expanded research funding and the total of which isn't apparently enough to change ND's independence. It may make sense for the bigten to add ND but ND isn't getting anything they don't already have. Now if something from the above list is threatened by the expansion, namely the bowl buy-ins and bcs autobid, then the bigten will be offering something ND can no longer get on its own.
They would have an enormous amount of catching up to do. The research arms race is detailed here http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf10311/content.cfm?pub_id=3944&id=2
Table 31 is the summary of all schools, ranked by research. The numbers are 2 years old, but rankings don't change that quickly.
The lowest-ranked B10 school, Iowa, is at #63. It has over three times the funding of ND, #133. It's not all about size, either. Northwestern has 450% more funding than ND.
To be fair, ND is a more undergraduate-focused university.
Not sure how they determine those numbers but I know Western's numbers aren't that low. (after speaking with some of their professors)
Don't forget that these are per year numbers. Awards are usually 2-5 years, so even if a researcher talks about their $30M grant it may only count $6M toward this ranking.
I work in research, and this is THE list. It's a shame that it is delayed, but you can extrapolate fairly easily. VT has jacked up their $$ 20% over the last two years, but is still stuck at almost the same rank according to preliminary reports. It really is an arms race.
The Recovery Act pumped more money into NSF/NIH than they've had in a decade, so things are actually much better in research than in areas supported by state budgets.
I will take your word for it then, interesting to say the least
One of the reasons the B10 is so far ahead is the CIC. The schools bid for federal grants together and share the spoils. Iowa is more successful at getting grant money because it submits shared proposals in combination with schools like U of M, Wisky, PSU and Northwestern. This makes the proposals far more powerful (each school brings unique strengths and resources) and spreads the benefit of the dollars politically. ND has been making a push over the past 10 years to get into the big leagues on research, but they started from a small base and as a single entity (even a good one) they are at a huge disadvantage versus CIC. Ironically, if they joined B10, they would be part of CIC and likely see tens if not hundreds of millions of extra research dollars per year. This is why ND's professors are in support of the move.
FWIW, U of M recently acquired some former Pfizer facilities and is converting them into a new research center (NCRC). The goal is to more than double their research numbers to approximately $2 billion over the next 7 years.
They're Irish, you know.
I need to remember "shite" and fight should rhyme at ND!
I've been channeling with Bo in football valhalla, Bo says ND can go and should go to hell
Hail Mary's after a TD aren't enough!
If they say no, what then? Is Nebraska next up, or do we move into multi-expansion mode?
The guy at Orangeblood.com is saying that ND doesn't want to be left out of the 4 16-team superconferences, if they do happen. So they might be jumping on the bandwagon. Personally, I think there is a lot of smoke and some fire, but when this all settles down, I don't know if there is going to be that much changed. That said, I also believe that there is going to be phases of this - in five years? Superconferences. But not all at once.
It'll happen a little at a time. But it does seem as though the Big Ten and Pac-10 really want to jumpstart the expansion craze. I'm guessing that whatever the Big Ten does in the next year or so will be all it does.
if ND says no, then it is Superconference time. I don't know if that means Nebraska, Missouri, Texas.....all the rumored suspects. But it sounds like if the Big Ten can't get ND, things will get very crazy expansion-wise.
if ND sees that it can singlehandedly stop the superconference reorganization of college football, will that be enough ego-stroking material for you guys to suck it up and join the big 10? what if we promise that we'll all pause to admire your importance when you do?
Finally, thank god, I'm sick of Jack Swarbrick in the news all the time. Make him make a decision.
Hope they decide not to join and get left out in the cold. We'll keep our rivalry going just so we can continue to kick in those golden domes.
I hate them as much as you, I promise. But hate them or not, ND joining the Big Ten makes Michigan and the Big Ten a lot better.
But, I love the Big Ten and am always pulling for Big Ten teams to do well in non-conference situations. I don't want to have to ever root for ND, so I hope the pass and I don't have to. I know this is a selfish reason, but I've had a bad day. Logging off and drinking a beer.
This might finally be enough to get ND to join. Personally, I think ND to the Big Ten is best case scenario.
All the expansion hypotheticals are fun, but ND I think is invite #1. If they decline, then go after Texas.
Adding Notre Dame is better than any scenario involving Rutgers joining the conference
Oh wait....did you say Rutgers? Run along Rutgers. You're kind ain't welcome here!
I've been saying it all along, but I still think that's what happens in the end. Maybe a few years down the road we can poach Texas and the rest.
What leverage does the Big Ten have to put ND on the clock? In the case of Nebraska and Missouri, the Big 12 can kick them out. With ND, they are not a member. I guess I don't see what power the Big Ten has in this situation. Hypothetical expansions and superconferences may come to fruition someday but I can't imagine Swarbrick being forced into a conference based on hypotheticals. I would imagine he would need to say superconferences coming to light before he would make a hard decision (especially considering ND's past-precedence).
The Big Ten puts ND on the clock by saying "if you don't join us, these other guys will, and when the landscape of NCAA football changes you might be left out in the cold."
ND can take that gamble, but it's certainly a risk. If being in a conference ends up being a big deal to get into a playoff (there will always be an at-large, but it might be tough to get into), if NBC decides not to renew their TV contract (or not pay them as much), and/or if ND's major opponents stop scheduling them because of their new conference alignments (fewer OOC games), ND will wish they had joined.
was that this is ND's last chance to join the Big Ten. ND is the only school that the Big Ten is willing to cap its membership at 12 for. Otherwise, the Big Ten becomes the "Super Sixteen" (or something like that), and Notre Dame is left out. Granted ND could later join another conference. But none of the other conferences are as geographically and academically appealing as the Big Ten is.
Yes, if ND passes on the Big Ten and later joins a conference, it will almost certainly be a worse situation than joining the Big Ten academically, financially, geographically, and historically.
If ND has to join a conference the Big Ten is definitely ND's #1 on the list of possibilities
And the list starts and ends with #1
I mentioned to a guy at work today that I got the feeling the Big10 would put ND on a shorter clock so if ND chooses not to, we would have time to negotiate a contract and bring Missouri in. I was also thinking that they might bring Missouri and Nebraska in and leave the door open for ND again. If ND still doesn't join, then we bring someone else like Pitt to get us to 14 for that season, then get 2 more the following season.
I'm starting to think this will be a 2-3 step process in hopes of getting ND to break.
Dude at NYT tweeted:
Rittenberg had it on his feed.
This is what the Michigan Rivals site is saying,
"The Big Ten is apparently telling Notre Dame if the Irish turn down the invitation, the Big Ten could expand by five schools to go to 16. The fear on Notre Dame's part, and the reason officials are considering the bid carefully, is because officials fear four, 16-team conferences could emerge, and Notre Dame could be left out, sources said."
THe leverage the B10 has on ND, might be that Neb and MZ are on the "clock" with the B12 (if all true).
"join the B10 ND, or we'll grab NEB, MIZZ, and (SYR or Pitt or Maryland) and the B12 packs up and goes west and you and NBC can sit with the Dodo Bird and wait for Gadot to invite you to the next dance."
I think its pitiful the Big 11 keeps courting them. I agree it makes perfect sense that they join but that should have happened a long time ago. I say cut bait and let them fend for themselves . Sorry they disguist me and last years victory was sweeter than ever. Go Blue
respects ND as an institution, which is why it keeps offering membership. However, this should be a "last chance" thing.
been fending for themselves for quite a while btw
ND has until XX day to sign up or:
- Big Ten extends formal invites to Neb & Mizzou first. This starts the dominos.
- The "Texas 6" then join with Neb & Mizzou to legally dissolve the Big 12 (since they'll have 8 voting members)
- Texas 6 go to Pac 10. Pac 10 done.
- Kansas, KSt, IA St (maybe) and Colorado join Mtn West giving the MW a legitimacy to the BCS bid that was the Big 12's.
- Big Ten then invites Pitt from Big East. Big Ten now at 14.
- SEC realizes that if they dont do something fast, the potential is there for the other mega conferences to basically write a ticket to the BCS national championship for their undefeated teams, even if they have one. SEC picks off Clemson, FlaSt from ACC.
- ACC now needs to replace two members and goes after UConn and Syracuse, now owning the Atlantic media market from Boston to Miami and establishing itself as the pre-eminent basketball conference in the nation.
- Notre Dame now has a choice... (A) be shut out of the BCS and evolutionary playoff system and stay independent, (B) become a flagship Big East school keeping the rest of the Big East but probably having to invite Memphis or convincing Army and Navy to join up with them for historical rivalry sake, OR (C) join the Big Ten and take Rutgers with them as #15 & 16.
Even then, the Big Ten could say, "hey ND, we tried, you didn't want, we're happy with 14 teams, so go fuck yourself as a lightweight football power. And tell West Virginia we said hello. MUUUAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
The rest of the Big East scatters like Swayze and Sheen in Red Dawn to Conf USA, the ACC (if they'll have them) or the MAC.
We are now left with:
Mega Big Ten
Mega Pac 10
Mountain West (now with KU, KSt, IASt, Col, Boise)
Are you Jim Delaney?
Seriously, though, your speculation seems quite logical.
I'm actually Jim Delaney's mirror universe doppleganger. I have a goatee and everything...
in all seriousness, I was listening to Paul Finebaum's radio show on Sirius today coming home, and he's basically telling the SEC yokels that if this starts to go down, it doesn't matter that the SEC won the last 4 nat'l championships, the SEC is going to be left in the revenue dust and they better make a serious play to lock up Florida, UF/FSU bad blood be damned. Interestingly though, he thinks that the SEC needs to leave Clemson alone as it doesn't add anything to the conference they already have. His point is that the SEC better go big or go home as the Mega Big Ten and Mega Pac 10 take all the extra at-large BCS slots if they're available.
but I did read that if the SEC were to expand, that their top 2 schools they would go after are Virginia Tech and Florida St. I would have to think that Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Miami would all have to be in the mix as well though.
the rest is questionable... "Real" southerners in the don't want Ga Tech b/c they think they're not redneck-y enough. Va tech is probable, but there's a real strong attraction for Va Tech to stay in the ACC with UVa (may not be reciprocal per Maize n Blue Wahoo). I would say the #2 choice for the SEC would be Miami to lockdown the state of Florida.
I think VaTech is tied to UVa, because UVa was tied to VaTech by Va legislature, when voting for admittance to ACC was done a decade ago. Not sure tho.
If their goal is to lockdown Florida, do they try to get USF from the Big East?
Lemme tell ya, most UVA fans are PISSED that VT is in the ACC. Some are pissed at Casteen (former prez) and some at the legislature, but nobody thinks it's been a good thing for UVA at all. As far as football goes, they're right.
I'll throw a monkey wrench into your scenario here: the SEC probably won't take any ACC teams. The TV deals aren't that far apart in revenue any more, so the ACC teams can demand a full share. That doesn't make sense for the SEC, which can't expand its TV revenue like the Big Ten can. FSU might go to the SEC (and I really wouldn't miss 'em much) but more likely, if your nuclear doomsday happens, the SEC picks off WVU and Louisville by offering them a take-it-or-leave it deal for like a third of a share, the alternative being left out in the cold forever like Notre Dame.
just wanted you to chime in for sure...
This shit is getting way too Machiavellian for me. It's a like a friggin season of Lost or Battlesta Galactica.
thought that all of the talk about teams moving in and out of conferences would blow, but the way you've described it here doesn't seem all that terrible. This way, there would be conference championships for the "Mega" conferences as you call them and that would take some of the pain of the BCS away.
plus for all the lonely domer fans out there - at least your team is relevant on the national picture again, albeit not for the performance of the team on the field. but still.
takes one to know one I guess
I have to admit, the past two years have caused me to almost want to take back every ND joke and slap myself for every moment of joy I have experienced watching ND's struggles in the post-Holtz era. No one should have to live through this hell. Well, maybe OSU.
even if ND joins the Big Ten and the Big Ten stops at 12.
I could be wrong but I think the new Pac-10 commish wants to get to at least 12 teams so they can have a conference championship game. I live in Denver and a few months ago the rumor was Colorado and Utah to the Pac-10 so they'd have 12 schools. As the rumors started flying and talk of the Big 10 growing to 14 or 16 teams appeared the Pac-10 started looking at having more then 12 members.
So even if ND joins the Big 10 I think the Pac-10 still looks at getting two new teams. However, I doubt those teams would be 'major' domino's - more likely back to the old rumor a couple of months like Colorado and Utah. I doubt the Big 12 and Mountain West would have problems replacing those schools but there would still be a decent amount of restructing going on. Boise St to replace Utah and TCU to replace Colorado. Then the mountain west probably needs to raid the WAC again.
Should this happen, the question then becomes what of the Big East? The other 5 BCS conferences all have championship games.
So I think domino's fall no matter what happens, it's just a matter of what size the domino's are going to be.
There is likely to be at least a small change in conference alignments regardless. As far as the Big East....I don't know. If the Big Ten doesn't try to take schools from them, the ACC or SEC might.
If the Big ten stays at 12 with an added Notre Dame, the Pac 10 may just choose to pick up the easy two they've been targeting all along, Utah & Colorado, which fit the academic profile and culture of the conference much better than Texas Tech or Ok St. the Big 12 then grabs one to replace Colorado and the Mtn West raids the WAC as you say (Boise anyone?)... crisis averted, status quo nominally maintained, but the undercurrents of civil war stay act active as Big 12 members plot how to get Texas to revenue share.
Governed by Game Theory, this seems the most probable in this real life Prisoner's Dilemma.
ND controls the next move in conference expansion. If they say no, we're on our way to superconferences. If they say yes, there are no superconferences for at least a couple more years, and possibly much longer.
If superconferences happen, will we see a conference or two get 2 BCS bids? Or will it not matter because the BCS will be more likely to get dissolved and we'll have a playoff?
but if at least we get a playoff system out of expansion, then it might be worth it.
I'd imagine we'd get 4 superconferences with autobids to a 4 team playoff scenario. Howeva, I can already hear the whining from the under-conferences about equality. I wonder if there's a way to have a provision - top 2 teams get "byes" the "first round", and have the other 2 superconferences have the right to host a home game to determine the final four.
Allow us, in this expansion fever dream, to presume one of two things contingent upon Notre Dame becoming the 12th and only new member of the Big Ten.
If Michigan and Notre Dame are in the same division, do you still want Michigan and Notre Dame to play in early September (even the third week, a la Florida and Tennessee?)
If Michigan and Notre Dame are not in the same division, do you still want them to play in early September for their conference game?
I know, ENTIRELY HYPOTHETICAL!!!!
Yes. I think it'd be great to have a traditional first Big Ten game and a traditional final Big Ten game. Also, the main reason I want Notre Dame in the Big Ten is then it will allow Michigan to schedule different OOC teams. ND has some cache to the name, and a victory goes a long way (regardless of how well the team is doing), but i'd love to see a couple of home and homes a la OSU and Texas/USC/etc.
Michigan vs. Notre Dame in Sept. is one of my favorite traditions, and almost always the first "big" game of the year. I would definitely keep it there, either way.
Honestly, it would be sweet to start the conference season against ND and end it with OSU every year. That would be quite a bookend of hatred.
ND having to play MSU last each season would round that out nicely.
I really really like that idea. That would mean:
Michigan State-Notre Dame
This would leave four teams without permanent dance partners for their year end game under this scenario:
I say we give Iowa and Penn State some form of trophy and make their last game of the season a rivalry game.
I'm not going to get into divisional alignments because we've been there, but that is what I see as the one downside of making MSU/ND the new last game of the season.
If they're in the Conference, we'll play them when they're scheduled. And if they're not that year, I can live with the break. And would want it if we only go to 12. Because while there will be ups and downs, generally powers stay powers, and M and OSU will be paired, so you need to get PSU & ND on the same side. That's why uber-expansion makes more sense. Brian's Texas, Neb, Missou, trio of rivals, A&M and ND is competitive comparable to other side with current big 3 and rest of the lot. And the only real rivalry broken up is the current OOC ones- ND vs. B10 teams; Miss/Ill. And even that could be fixed with flipping ND and Ill, just sacrificing Ill-NW. But the balance of National Powers would go from 3-3 to 2-4.
read Orson's take on this at Everydayshouldbesaturday.com
I just about pissed my pants reading this.
Missouri has rankled members of the Big 12 with its outward affection for the Big Ten. One member of the Big 12 said, "It's as if they'd crawl on broken glass to get there."
I don't want to put it in a new thread, but this made it's way onto Twitter via DocSat:
Basically it's Mizzou and Nebraska to the Big Ten, done deal. We'll see how right it is in the next 48 hours.
I bet the 14th team would be either ND or Texas.
but its not Texas. The drama with the Pac 10 should kill any notion to Big Ten fans that UT is coming since they're going to have to drag their three brothers with them anywhere they go per the Texas Legislature. Big Ten isn't taking Texas Tech or Baylor. Period. And if you doubt the power of the Texas Legislature, you are a moron.
Neg. Once the PAC-10 rescinds the offer because Stanford and Cal say no to TT/Baylor/OK/OKState, then the Texas legislature can either let UT and A&M join big boy conferences or let them try to be independent, or be idiots and have an all Texas conference and add Rice/Houston/TCU/SMU or something. Actually, they'll probably make an all Texas conference.
UTEP. They could make a Texas/Oklahoma Conference and add OU, OSU, Tusla. I think that makes 12.
It was called the Southwest Conference, and was disbanded in 1996 largely b/c it was the most corrupt entity in sports. The SWC's members at its end in 1996 were:
In the work The National Collegiate Athletic Association: a Study in Cartel Behavior by Arthur A. Fleisher, Brian L. Goff, and Robert D. Tollison, the authors state:
The Southwest Conference during the mid-1980s provides an example of more recent intracartel struggles. Almost all the schools in the conference found themselves on some type of probation, the major exception being the University of Arkansas....[Arkansas was in the SWC until 1991.]
Hence the "or they will be idiots" part. Next time I'll add the word "again" so it's clearer what the joke is.
but the top recruits will want to play on the biggest stages... the super Mega Streisand conference ideas being pushed will definitively setup a big boys and little boys situation, and yes that would impact recruiting but more so for the teams not in the mega conferences since the TV opportunities for non mega conference teams will be few / far between / on Thursday nights on ESPN Ocho.
I don't think amy recruiting hotbeds are going to be left out of the power conferences. Unless Kansas is now a football factory.
Reports are saying that ND is not budging and Jack Swarbrick at ND is denying deliberations are occurring.
... then this will be Notre Dame when the big dance is over and the house lights go up:
Remember this guy?
I'd like to be the first to thank the PAC-10 for making this all possible. This whole charade was only possible when they bought in and made the batshit crazy, out of nowhere semi-offer to the Big12 South 6. That gives Nebraska plausible reason to say they HAD to take the Big10 offer, Mizzou as well, then ND's hand is forced.
Think about it. Utah and Colorado are the ONLY schools outside of Texas that make sense for the Pac10, and the Pac10 isn't going to take OK State, OK, and Texas Tech/Baylor to get them. Stanford, Cal, USC, and UCLA don't want to be associated with that, and Stanford and CAL don't even care about football that much.
Everyone can safely say they had no choice, then UT can decide how they are going to ditch TT and Baylor and either move with A&M to the Big16 or Pac-10.
I think those 3 would be perfect. I just hope they don't screw it up and invite Rutgers+1 right now. I would much rather let this dust settle a little and get 2 good fits in another few years to push us to 16.
notre dame now not in BT talks.
If ND joins the B10, when would they start playing a B10 schedule? 2012?
The guy on the Mizzou boards claiming that Mizzou and Neb are done deals is saying 2012.
Every single report on Missouri being a done-deal is coming from Missouri... I think they're desperate, especially being a Tier-2 school that is far lower ranked (#102) than the lowest ranked Big Ten school (MSU #73), looking to get into a Tier-1 conference.
The gap between MSU and Mizzou is much less than the gap between Northwestern and MSU. I don't just mean in rankings, reality as well.
I just found this gem on Twitter:
"Texas is that cute chic at the bar you take home ... and then you notice she has 3 kids"
I'm sorry, what do the 3 kids have to do with anything? You're not really looking to marry the girl you take home from the bar, you're looking to have some fun.
How much fun are you going to have with her if her 3 kids are hanging around you all night?
What time do you get back from the bar that the 3 kids would be awake?
Oh, and the prettiest girl -- she's extremely high maintenance and if you marry her you will quickly find out she is going to make your life a living hell.
Haven't we learned anything from Beautiful Mind? If you go after the ugly girls, you're going to succeed. Missouri and Rutgers, you ugly.
USC is hoping they can time publishing a laundry list of NCAA sanctions to coincide with big, definitive conference expansion announcements such that their sanctions get buried on page 8-D somewhere. (Bets, anyone?)
More on topic.... my personal preference is B10 adds Mizzou, ND, Nebraska. No more than that, and only ND or Mizzou if they just go with one team. I've always liked that the B10 is a bunch of teams in the midwest, and I'd like to see it stay that way. I could be sold on Pitt, if for no other reason than to watch the rekindling of a once-fierce PSU/Pitt rivalry. But I have zero interest in Rutgers, Syracuse, Maryland, etc.
FYI... Syracuse and Penn State have a long-standing rivalry as well...