In support of Brady Hoke - three years and a positive direction
With the tide of negativity right now about Hoke and the program, hopefully we can allow a thread with the alternative point of view - the first three years of the Hoke era have been a success.
Hoke inherited a program that was fractured. Many alums, former coaches and players, boosters, high school coaches, and others felt alienated. In short order, Hoke restored many of these relationships.
The team was a wreck. In the last three games of the 2010 season, we had been embarrassed by Wisconsin, OSU, and Mississippi State by a combined score of 137-49.
Immediately, the program on the field was transformed into something we could take pride in by Hoke. The team went 11-2 with a win over OSU and a BCS bowl victory. We were praising the very coaches many demonize now. Hoke's first full recruiting class was top drawer - a trend that has continued throughout his tenure.
But Hoke's initial success depended largely on the recruits of Lloyd Carr still populating the upper classes. As those players graduated and the remnants of Rich Rod's classes moved into the upper ranks, there was a growing void of talent at the top - exactly where the strength of the team should be in terms of quality and quantity. In this regard, we bottomed out in the 2013 season. The very upper classes were from the RichRod era. We can argue the merits of RichRod as a coach, but what's left in those classes clearly wasn't what we need to compete at the highest levels. In fact, given the void in the upper half of our roster, being competitive and bowl eligible is an accomplishment of sorts.
Depth takes time to build, and the elite classes we continue to bring in will provide that. The trend now will be upward, as the depleted classes graduate and are back filled with new players of the quality and type we need. Replacing the staff now would likely derail the direction toward the type of team to which we are accustomed.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:09 PM ^
Progress in 2014 is required. If they deliver another year like this, all bets should be off. Then I would expect them to be in the mix for the Big Ten title in 2015 when they get to the last game against OSU. He should be held to the same metrics that RR was subjected to:
Red Letter Games
Also, he needs to show he can beat teams with a winning record on the road. It is a travesty that they have not won a game against a winning team on the road in 3 years on the road.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:09 PM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 1:24 AM ^
Take the pulse of the Michigan fanbase right now. It cannot wait two full years to be satisified or get questions answered. I'm 80-90% sure Hoke will get a fifth year, but a carbon copy of this season in 2014 would deserve absolutely no excuses and no rope.
December 30th, 2013 at 4:02 AM ^
But after nearly 9 years of awful football, our patience is running thin, 2011 was the bright spot! We've come to point of always saying wait til next year. This is so lionesque!
December 29th, 2013 at 9:56 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:11 PM ^
The staff should be Hoke's call, but if he goes with them and it is the wrong decision he should not be given a Mulligan after next year. He needs to make the defining decision and a live with the outcome.
December 30th, 2013 at 4:07 AM ^
I still say Mattison is a good coach and he will have the defense playing better. If we have another 7 win season in 2014, then Gorges Borges could be gone.
December 29th, 2013 at 9:57 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:00 PM ^
Here's where I'm at with it. As those who were around know, I was not a RR guy. At all. And I don't see myself getting nostalgic or thinking "what if?" or any of that. The right move was made, even if it took DB an extra 8 weeks than he needed to.
That being said.
WIth RR teams, you knew what you were getting. The offense got better and better, but the defense got worse and worse. Special teams were a trainwreck. The off-the-field vibe was bizarre, from the RR camp to the AD to the alums to the fanbase. But we all pretty much knew the score. And that ended up being part of the problem, as the fanbase just tore itself to shreds along the way.
These past two seasons of Hoke, the offense has been frustratingly inconsistent. The defense has been frustratingly inconsistent. Everyone off-the-field seems generally content, the schisms and infighting seemed to subside, but what has replaced it is a really strange complacency paired with an Athletic Department hellbent on keeping the message consistent and stomping out dissent. And this is the product we get, with little hope for a change in direction until the wheels fall off completely.
What I don't understand is the fact that Brady Hoke is a genuinely likeable guy. Everyone raves about him as a coach and as a person, it seems the family united behind him in this unprecedented way. The recruiting seems off the charts. I just don't understand why it just simply doesn't translate to Saturday afternoons. Every week it's something different, and usually not in a good way.
For all the buildup, the very reputable people in the Michigan family that were eager to run through a brick wall for this guy... Where is it? Why is player development so poor? Why does team morale seem so lacking? Why is the program's identity so incredibly flat?
Plainly, what obvious elephant in the room did we miss here?
I'm beginning to think Hoke is probably just a really good position coach that has been able to delegate his way to enough success along the way as a head coach, but has hit the point where he just can't get by on that anymore. It's not the MAC anymore.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:02 PM ^
Short answer - youth and depth. It needs time.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:04 PM ^
/s
December 29th, 2013 at 11:31 PM ^
Jason Whitlock said just about every stupid thing imaginable about this team.
For no good reason in particular, he attacked Shane Morris:
Freshman QB Shane Morris started out as a five-star recruit, backed up to four-star, and is now viewed as a guy who is a bit quirky and immature.
He garbled any intelligent understanding of Hoke's recruiting/commitment "policy," in re David Dawson:
Another high-profile lineman, David Dawson, violated Hoke's no-visits policy by taking a trip to Florida after verbally committing to Michigan. Hoke backed down and let Dawson recommit to Michigan.
He attacked Taylor Lewan, for... what, really? For winning the Rimington-Pace Award?
Lewan is the Jadeveon Clowney of the Big Ten, the pampered superstar who's doing his school a favor by suiting up this season.
As far as I can tell, every single word of this missive is mistaken:
No one talks about offensive linemen because most sports fans cannot properly evaluate their play. Lewan plays my position. He's been embarrassing. The ridiculous and selfish unsportsmanlike conduct penalty he received in Saturday's game is indicative of his play all season. He's resorted to cheap shots and bullying because he failed to adequately prepare to have a dominant senior season.
He's coasting. He turned down NFL millions last April to return for his senior season. You can see the entitlement and arrogance every time he lines up. He's Michigan's captain. He's slumming in Ann Arbor for one more season, and he thinks everyone in maize and blue should be thankful to be in his presence.
And... lulz:
There's nothing wrong with Michigan's schemes. Firing offensive coordinator Al Borges won't fix what's wrong with the Wolverines. Hoke doesn't need to parade the sidelines wearing a headset.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9936259/brady-hoke-fix-michigan-wolverines
I nominate Jason Whitlock for the Big Ten's Rosenberg-Henning Award as the Assclown Writer of the Year. Time; it is such a beautiful thing, when judging a columnist's writing.
December 30th, 2013 at 6:47 AM ^
I thought you were joking until I clicked the link. More proof that most professional sportswriters have zero idea of what they're talking about.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:13 PM ^
I'm wondering if ALL coaches need some LOW point in their career to figure out that they need to have courage to change the status quo. Some coaches adjust and move forward from their down year(s), others are swallowed up.
What will happen with Hoke? Not sure, but don't see us plateauing - it will get better or worse in 2-3 years. Worse, if we keep losing 5-6 games and recruits jump ship, better if Hoke can make 9 wins the low bar.
Bo's RB losses forced him to adjust to having a balanced offense, including getting Rick Leach to pass more.
Dantonio went 6-7 in his 3rd year, probably the saving grace being he had an OT win vs. Michigan. But I know Spartan fans thought he was nothing better than an 8-4 coach. In fact, Narduzzi was getting hell after the 2009 season for defensive issues (they gave up average of 34 points in 7 losses). His breakthrough year was 2010, including a road win at Michigan.
I remember the fade during the end of RR era in 2010 (losses to Sparty, Iowa, PSU, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Miss St) - including 3 full-fledged blowouts. RR is better off at Zona, with no pressure and a fan base not used to winning.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:23 PM ^
I remember when Tressel came to osu and made a promise on his intro speech how his team will be prepare and beat Michigan year in an out..and damn he did so for many years, on top of that won many big ten championships and a national title.. Now thats a coach, that kept his promise (put aside all the craziness that was going on the side with players)
December 29th, 2013 at 10:30 PM ^
The Peter Principle.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:37 PM ^
I mean, I say all this without making any kind of statement about where I want things to go. Because I really can't think of any option right now (either firing Hoke, giving him carte blanche, firing a coordinator and/or other assistants, etc.) that could work.
I'm beginning to think the entire exercise is simply unsustainable no matter what we do. This is just a way of speeding up the process of rot and decline, to the extent that I wouldn't mind Michigan going the route of backing off, taking the Stanford route, and rebuilding from the ground up on an identity that genuinely incorporates the school's institutional and academic strength, instead of trying to be an Alabama-type program on the field and a Northwestern off of it. You can't have it both ways, though I think DB's naivety is pushing him to make us believe it can.
Hell, I'm just thinking out loud. Frustration does that to a man.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:01 PM ^
Go home. You're drunk
December 29th, 2013 at 10:01 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:02 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:04 PM ^
I give hoke another 2 years to see how it goes and see what happens with the 49ers...
December 29th, 2013 at 10:06 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:18 PM ^
I am all for giving Hoke and his staff next year. He needs to keep the program intact without losing significant recruits or current team members and he needs to demonstrate progress on the field. I am not calling for NCs, but 9-3 or 10-2 and beat OSU or MSU next year. If that happens, then it should buy him 2015. If they are not staring a Big Ten Championship in the face in 2015 then go after Harbaugh hard. The foundation will be set and he is the type of personality that will not settle for failure.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:35 PM ^
But there are a few obsticles, for one Harbough seems to be a pain in the ass to work with because 49ers said that they dont mind if he takes the Texas job, now that tells you something how they feel towards him
Also i am not sure he would go back to college after being soooo succesful in NFL..but then again money talks now days
December 29th, 2013 at 11:15 PM ^
I didn't think Harbaugh would leave Stanford for a 3 year contract. Based on what I could find, it looks like his contract is up after the 2015 season, but there hasn't been any feedback about extending it beyond 2015. If my information is correct that would fit nicely if things don't work out with Hoke. It is possible that Jim feels snubbed he could start looking sooner and if that is the case, then DB might want to take a close look at the state of the program and if he should swing for the fences with Harbaugh sooner.
December 30th, 2013 at 1:51 AM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 12:52 AM ^
You just hire a guy who does what Hoke does but does it better than Hoke. That is one option. Or you can hire a guy who can win with talent in any system because he knows how to maximize results. That is another option. Or you hire a guy that is brilliant when it comes to one side of the ball to be the head coach and just pay an obscene amount of money to the guy who coordinates the other side of the ball and also happens to be brilliant. These are all options to be a top 25 team next year, and dare I say, in the hunt for a league title.
The problem is the mythology of the Michigan Man has so overtaken the program, that almost none of those type guys would be considered. I fear we may have missed the forest for the trees on that one. Alabama has tons of tradition, yet they hired the ultimate mercenary in Saban, it didn't cost them tradition.
I simply cannot accept that this team doesn't have the raw talent to win a league comprised of teams like Minnesota, Iowa, and a flawed Ohio.
This idea that there has to be more rebuilding and great pain and gnashing of teeth if we hire a new coach is absurd to me. Switch our staff with BOB or Urbz staff right now and double digits wins looks very realistic.
I am all for Hoke getting 2 more years to flush out his vision. But, this season didn't have to go down like this. I think most of us know that in our gut.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:05 PM ^
I'm not as confident that Hoke is the guy as I was before, but I definitely want to see him at least through next year. This year the redshirt seniors and seniors were the two classes in which almost nobody was retained. Let's see what Hoke can do with his guys as upperclassmen.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:06 PM ^
Everyone on here needs to look at who's actually on our roster left over from the RR era. The lack of depth is like we got hit with USC/PSU sanctions.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:21 PM ^
Fun fact: Penn State put up 43 points on a Michigan team with 70 scholarship players on the travel roster. Penn State had 57 scholarship players this year, over a dozen of whom were walk-ons who were only given scholarships because there was no one left. For all intents and purposes, we had twice the D1 team as the Nittany Lions, without the crushing headlines and sanctions.
See: http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/men-action/201310/penn-state-nittany-li…
Yet we're supposed to believe that lack of depth is the reason this team lost in such depressingly complacent fashion? Even with the number of chances Michigan had to beat PSU, the fact that this team couldn't even handle a team like that, much less barely hanging on against Akron at home...
But let's keep pointing to "youth" and "lack of depth" as if we weren't recruiting 4- and 5-star recruits, who other programs across the country manage to have contribute to their program's success without anyone noticing anything out of the ordinary. And those players manage to develop over time, to get better from week to week. Our guys don't.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:39 PM ^
How many on Hoke's staff are truly top-notch coaches? Mattison I'll give you in spite of the disappointing play of the D this year, but who else? I suspect losing Montgomery might have been a much bigger deal than most of us thought at the time.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:46 PM ^
Do not find your fact "fun" at all.
December 30th, 2013 at 7:27 AM ^
People keep talking like we have a roster full of 5 star guys. We have 3, maybe 4. Morris, Kalis, Pipkins, Green. Green and Morris are still freshmen. Morris is a 4 star according to Rivals. Pipkins is out with an ACL and he might not be back until late next year. We have 1 more coming in Peppers.
The 2011 class according to Rivals only had 6 4 star guys. No 5 stars. One of them is out of football. Beyer, Bryant, Countess, Taylor, Hayes. They're playing as RS Sophs and Juniors.
The rest of Hoke's high end recruits are RS/True Freshmen and sophs. So yes. The 4 and 5 star guys that Hoke has pulled in the last 2 years are still young.
December 30th, 2013 at 2:37 PM ^
"The 2011 class according to Rivals only had 6 4 star guys. No 5 stars."
And the 2010 class was the same: 6 4-star guys. Kenny Wilkins, Demar Dorsey, Marvin Robinson, Cullen Christian, Gardner and Ash.
27 players signed that year, ten or eleven are still with the team depending on whether you count Hagerup. Three others are playing FBS football elsewhere. That's half a recruiting class that dropped out of college football altogether (plus one that dropped down a division but kept playing).
It really is amazing. You expect to have the occasional recruit who realizes after the fact that football, or school, isn't for him. But half a class?
December 30th, 2013 at 1:26 PM ^
PSU has lots of seniors and juniors on their squad. I think the number of players is a lot different than experience level of those players. I heard a stat (don't recall the source and could be wrong) that ~75% of our team was made up of 1st & 2nd year players. That's bad.
December 30th, 2013 at 2:20 PM ^
62% to be exact -- based on my own calculations earlier in the year.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:26 PM ^
The RR leftover narrative is really tired, especially considering that they are the best players on the team. I am waiting to see these great Hoke classes show greatness. Yes he should get next year, but you have to realize he is living off of the RR Recruits (Denard, Devin, Gallon, Ryan, Countess, etc). Show me the Hoke playmakers that are going to turn this thing around please and I am not talking about an incoming freshman DB. I am asking about the prior three highly ranked classes that will now be juniors and seniors!
December 29th, 2013 at 10:30 PM ^
Actually, the problem was not so much the guys left over from RR, but all the guys who weren't left over, particularly in the 2010 class (two-thirds of whom weren't on the 2013 team).
December 30th, 2013 at 3:53 AM ^
Along the same lines as the tired narrative, who are the best 5 Michigan players that committed after Hoke was hired?
I'm going to say:
(1) Funchess
(2) Ross
(3) Taylor (lol #3?!)
(4) Wilson
(5a) Clark
(5b) Butt
I know the list does not fit within the conviently crafted narrative, but other than Funchess, opposing coaches are not having a ton of sleepless nights over the rest of those guys.
December 30th, 2013 at 5:07 AM ^
December 30th, 2013 at 7:38 AM ^
Head coach takes over.
Has 2 upperclassmen QB's, recruited by previous staff. Plays them, because of course you would.
According to you this is 'living off of the previous coaching staff'.
The only narrative about RR's recruiting is the 2010 recruiting class and the handful of players that are left on the roster from it.
Take a look and see how many names are still on the team...
http://rivals.yahoo.com/michigan/football/recruiting/commitments/2010
December 29th, 2013 at 10:31 PM ^
It isn't possible to argue that the current Senior depth is where it needed to be. At the Ohio State game this year the Ohio fans near us asked "is that all there is" when it came to seniors...It's amazing how many in the class washed out.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:09 PM ^
OP: "But Hoke's initial success depended largely on the recruits of Lloyd Carr still populating the upper classes." That's Brandonseque.
I wouldn't say *largely*. Those guys (Molk, RVB, Hemingway, et al.) were obviously important, but largely makes it sound like they made 70+% of the meaningful contributions. That leaves no room for Denard, Roundtree, Lewan, Omameh, Ryan ... you get the point.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:14 PM ^
Fair, but if you compare the three most tenured classes from Hoke's first team to this year's, wouldn't you agree there is generally less quallity and quantity?
December 29th, 2013 at 10:12 PM ^
1. I acknowledge that this staff has some serious flaws and went threw some serious growing pains this year. They are not a finalized big stage product in my mind and have to adapt or die (get fired). The stubbornness and failure to adjust on offense was not good. The on again off again defense that bent and broke several times was also not good. Some of the player execution in game was not great (gap soundness, basic pass catching, that crazy blocking stuff).
2. I am disappointedly not sure their overall ceiling on the staff is as high as I would like it to be either. While I never thought Hoke was Meyer's equal, I really thought Borges and Mattison were the difference. This year I was clearly wrong on this...that said, for some reason unbeknownst to me, I still have faith and I still think they can be the difference in a positive way now that our young kids have a bit of experience.
3. Overall, I found the late Lloyd Carr years extremely frustrating, although I am forever grateful for the Nat championship he delivered. This regime feels like Lloyd v Tressel, not Lloyd v Cooper. I am praying I am worong or they have the courage to shake up enough such that they can avoid such a fate.
4. If I was going to make a change I would get a qb coach and fire Funk right now. They need an outsider, innovator, flexible thinker with enough gravitas to influence and more quickly adapt. They need to show 7-6 is not being tolerated as a result in some way, not just lip service.
5. Clearly this staff can recruit and has established a " family environment". My only fear here is that, just like placating the alumni base, it's easier to do when 11-2 and winning. I am interested to see if they can keep it together now that their worst season is official.
Whoa...sorry for the long post....stressful season....no idea where that all came from.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:17 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:13 PM ^
December 29th, 2013 at 10:25 PM ^
I don't think he deserves another year. He is paid like an elite coach but has not performed anywhere near that level. Since he has not made his mark in three years, he should go. Other elite coaches have to perform in those three years. Hoke has not.
December 29th, 2013 at 10:43 PM ^
You can't seriously argue that Hoke "didn't perform" in 2011 - that was a great season capped with a BCS victory.
2012 is harder to evaluate - we lost five games, but were competitive in every one except Alabama and we were in first place in our division when we lost our QB to injury. If Denard had been healthy, we'd have probably played Wisconsin for a trip to Pasadena. The final record was disappointing, but pretty understandable given the schedule and QB situation.
This year was bad, no question. But we haven't had three years of this level of play, just one. We went 6-2 in Big Ten play in Hoke's first two years before slumping to 3-5 this year. Do you fire a coach over one bad season?
December 29th, 2013 at 10:49 PM ^