I stated a relationship between Bo's season and a blog meltdown - if there was a blog back then. I know Bo, and Brady is no Bo.
further adventures in Jed York being unsuited for his position
I stated a relationship between Bo's season and a blog meltdown - if there was a blog back then. I know Bo, and Brady is no Bo.
Exept that year, there was a direct cause and effect. I don't think the hypothetical blog would be melting down over a .500 year when we lost our starting QB halfway through the season.
And it's easy to just use BYU as a name loss and say "Oh we lost to BYU, how horrible!".
Until you look up BYU's 1984 season, and see that they were the goddamned National Champions that year.
And their only "signature" victory was against a six win Michigan team. BYU was the mnc that year, but they never played any decent teams. They were not a great team and likely would have been pantsed by a dozen teams that played more difficult schedules but had one or more losses.
Do you actually know anything about the 1984 season aside from reading the final record on a Wikipedia table?
I also know that Al Gore had not yet invented the Internet for public use. Which means there was no blog at the time of Bo's 1984 team. My point was the potential meltdown of this site if it was in existance. Do you see how people half read things and jump to conclusions based on their "ability" to be right all the time?
devastated due to injury and they still nearly beat the "national champs" in the Holiday Bowl. Robbie Bosco (I think) threw about 60 times without a single holding call. I don't bitch about officiating much, but that one still sticks in the ol' craw.
For some reason I was thinking it was Jim McMahon in that game, but I looked it up: you're right, it was Bosco. The lack of holding calls also set Bo off, so you were in good company. Every now and then somebody brings up BYU's national championship, then there's the statement, "yeah but they didn't play anybody" which invariably prompts a response, "well, they did beat Michigan." Almost nobody (except Michigan fans) remember that that was the worst Bo coached team ever (at least going by record). finishing 6-6.
Harbaugh went down. at least 2 other QBs went down. played (and almost beat BYU) with our #4 QB (who would that even be on this team?) . other key injuries that year. Nobody was down on Bo, thought he was a wizard for nearly beating unbeaten BYU, who had a famous rally to win. Robbie Bosco on a sprained ankle, anyone?
Keep Hoke, I'm fine with getting rid of all the other coaches.
2014 is a joke of a schedule besides our rivals. It is a very top heavy schedule. Hoke must go 10-2 or he will be canned but we must give him this chance.
"Hoke inherited a program that was fractured."
Unfortunately If we continue on our downward spiral next year and he ends up getting let go he will probably leave one fractured as well.
Hoke also won 11 games with that fractured team which were mostly Rich Rod's players, now we went 7-6 with a blend.
Thank you for this. The desperate need to blame all of the current staff's shortcomings on Rich Rod, and to credit give RR's players no credit for the success of the 2011 season (the OP claims that success was all based on Lloyd Carr's 5th year seniors) is laughably stupid. Maybe the OP is Dave Brandon.
Beilein was in his 4th season at Michigan and had one NCAA trip. We were 1-6 in the B1G and it looked like he was toast, if not that season, after the next. We had lost 6 games in a row.
I was in Toronto on business that week. Earlier in the week, was in the hotel bar and a MSU fan was there. After being nice for a few minutes, he turned into a real Spartan dick, bragging about how many years since UM beat MSU in any meaningful sport, blah blah blah. "Sucks to be a Michigan fan" I could see he wanted a fight and wisely got out of there when he went to the john (not sure how many of you have run into a drunk Spartan ASS lately, but they are among the worst pinheads known to mankind).
Thursday of that week, we pulled a stunner at East Lansing, 61-57, and went 8-3 rest of season. Made tourney and lost nailbiter to Duke. Next season, won share of B1G title. Last year Final Four.
Hoke's big chance is October 25th at MSU next year, after a BYE week. If he wants to turn the fanbase around, that needs to be his 1st ROAD signature win.
Yea, because showing up at Spartan Stadium after a BYE week worked so well this year.
The BYE week and the three weeks of practice before the bowl game were a waste.
Just saying IF Hoke is ever going to get a signature ROAD win, October 25th at MSU would shut up a lot of Spartans and make me think he's capable of fixing things.
Ya know what, going 11-2 in 2011 after getting shelled by Mississippi State convinced me he can turn things around. Hoke didn't inherit the talent and depth that Urban Meyer did at Florida and OSU. He didn't inherit the talent and stability that Jimbo Fisher did at FSU. Nor did he find himself in a dedicated and fertile recruiting paradise like Mack Brown did at Texas, or Pete Carroll in southern California.
Brady Hoke inherited a program in shambles, one that was a virtual wasteland. All he has done is recruit top talent, something that has been missing for a long time. He is rebuilding from the ground up. The fact that we have seen so many true freshmen in key roles the past two years is evidence of the depletion of talent he inherited.
All these young guys are going to be really good. Hoke deserves 2-3 more years. If they aren't a legitimate contender in that time frame, maybe he isn't the guy. I am thoroughly convinced that he is, and they will be, and everybody will say, "Ha! Remember when we wanted him fired?"
If going 11-2 in 2011 after going 7-6 in 2010 and getting shelled by Mississippi State is a turnaround, then what is going 7-6 in 2013 and getting shelled by Kansas State after going 11-2 in 2011?
It's called a setback. It happens to everybody that has ever been successful. There is a huge difference between what KSU did to us, and what Mississippi State did to us three years ago. Next year, after this setback, will be a breakout year.
from your post:
"Brady Hoke inherited a program in shambles, one that was a virtual wasteland."
are you, like, 9 years old?
without going on a long rant, let me remind you that Brady Hoke inherited a sophomore who has just been named Big 10 Offensive Player of the Year. I understand that 3 years of watching Hoke abdicate offensive decision-making to a journeyman OC........with mind numbingly bad results....effects your brain, but Hoke inherited plenty.......and far more than RR ever had on campus.
He is just not much of a coach. Other than ND (who RR also beat), what are Hoke's big wins? Against a 6-6 OSU team? the lucky lucky win againt VT?
Three years in, who are the big contributions of his recruits? I see impact freshman and sophs all over.
Your point total is indicative of who is closer to nine years old. That is all.
with the bye week before the road trip to UCONN, the team was adequately prepared that game also.
No, the bye was before Minnesota, which ended up being perhaps our best performance of the season.
There is no comparison between the rebuilding process Beilein needed to do with Michigan Basketball, and the kind of program and tradition and infrastructure Brady Hoke inherited with Michigan Football, even after the RR misadventures. It's apples and oranges.
The scale was/is vastly different. You're talking about a 1/5 ratio between the rosters, that's a lot. Yes the hoops team was a total shambled mess, but football was pretty bad too.
I kinda avoid Sparty's as I was a giant douche toward them for 30 of the 35 years of my life. I will be hiding in my basement in Dexter until we win 3 straight.
Spot on. That would be a way to change the momentum back. I remember that game so well. Those Sparty Brahs with the numbers painted on their chests and then seeing their jaws drop after the game. I was so amped. Anuerisms of Leadership are the best.
Who is our Zach Novak on this team?
I doubt any of us know but for us to have success next year the team had better find those Gritty McGrittersons.
I wanted RR gone as much as the next guy but can we please stop bashing him? At some point, it's Hoke's team. Devin Gardener, who was a RR recruit, is now Hoke's player. As were Denard, Jeremy Gallon, Vincent Smith, Taylor Lewan, Fitz Toussaint, Jordan Kovacs, Jake Ryan, etc. You know, all those guys who've been instrumental in that record that Hoke hangs his hat on.
Time to stop pulling in the talent card. Other teams do more with less. If Hoke didn't want to coach "spread" guys and phone it in for 3-4 years until "his" guys were in key positions, he shouldn't have taken the job. If the rumors of a fracture in the locker room are true, it's this attitude about "RR guys" that is behind it.
There are certainly some quality players of the RichRod era. Just not enough. And while I love Devin and Fitz, for example, I believe we have brought in the next generation of players to eventually play those roles more effectively (Morris, Green, Smith)
J.T. Turner, Isiah Bell, Vlad Emelien, Tate Forcier, Brandin Hawthorne, Anthony LoLota, J.T. Turner, Cullen Christian, Kenny Wilkins, Stephen Hopkins, Carvin Johnson, Christian Pace, Davion Rogers, Jerald Robinson, Austin White, D.J. Williamson, Ray Vinopal and Conelius Jones concur.
it is hard to ignore the amount of players that washed out from the roster. I do think Hoke was much needed to stablize the roster. He has raised the floor. I just worry about how high the ceiling can be. Really depends on the coordinators.
Still would have liked to have seen RR get a 4th year though and think Hoke absolutely deserves a 4th as year. A 5th season depends on the 4th though.
That's a great summation of the situation.
"They got to take two stars that want to be here and coach em up".
Don't forget Je'Ron Stokes
MR BRANDON IS THAT YOU
Funny considering your username
Recruting classes aren't meant to come in right away to turn around programs. Of course there are a few good ones that help the program, the majority of the class should come to play as upper class men where they provide playmaker s and depth. It would be a travesty to can hoke before the 2015 season. We need to have patience. We're quick to ask for coaching changes but have we all forgotten how end of the last decade turned out?
2015 is hokes crucial year. Not 2014.
Progress in 2014 is required. If they deliver another year like this, all bets should be off. Then I would expect them to be in the mix for the Big Ten title in 2015 when they get to the last game against OSU. He should be held to the same metrics that RR was subjected to:
Red Letter Games
Also, he needs to show he can beat teams with a winning record on the road. It is a travesty that they have not won a game against a winning team on the road in 3 years on the road.
Completely agree, 2015 is the critical year. Upperclassmen on both lines, in the backfield and Morris at the helm.
But after nearly 9 years of awful football, our patience is running thin, 2011 was the bright spot! We've come to point of always saying wait til next year. This is so lionesque!
As long as he guts the coaching staff, and hire some rock stars to coach the team for him.
The staff should be Hoke's call, but if he goes with them and it is the wrong decision he should not be given a Mulligan after next year. He needs to make the defining decision and a live with the outcome.
I still say Mattison is a good coach and he will have the defense playing better. If we have another 7 win season in 2014, then Gorges Borges could be gone.
That's exactly what we wanted.
Here's where I'm at with it. As those who were around know, I was not a RR guy. At all. And I don't see myself getting nostalgic or thinking "what if?" or any of that. The right move was made, even if it took DB an extra 8 weeks than he needed to.
That being said.
WIth RR teams, you knew what you were getting. The offense got better and better, but the defense got worse and worse. Special teams were a trainwreck. The off-the-field vibe was bizarre, from the RR camp to the AD to the alums to the fanbase. But we all pretty much knew the score. And that ended up being part of the problem, as the fanbase just tore itself to shreds along the way.
These past two seasons of Hoke, the offense has been frustratingly inconsistent. The defense has been frustratingly inconsistent. Everyone off-the-field seems generally content, the schisms and infighting seemed to subside, but what has replaced it is a really strange complacency paired with an Athletic Department hellbent on keeping the message consistent and stomping out dissent. And this is the product we get, with little hope for a change in direction until the wheels fall off completely.
What I don't understand is the fact that Brady Hoke is a genuinely likeable guy. Everyone raves about him as a coach and as a person, it seems the family united behind him in this unprecedented way. The recruiting seems off the charts. I just don't understand why it just simply doesn't translate to Saturday afternoons. Every week it's something different, and usually not in a good way.
For all the buildup, the very reputable people in the Michigan family that were eager to run through a brick wall for this guy... Where is it? Why is player development so poor? Why does team morale seem so lacking? Why is the program's identity so incredibly flat?
Plainly, what obvious elephant in the room did we miss here?
I'm beginning to think Hoke is probably just a really good position coach that has been able to delegate his way to enough success along the way as a head coach, but has hit the point where he just can't get by on that anymore. It's not the MAC anymore.
Short answer - youth and depth. It needs time.
Don't worry. Jason Whitlock said Hoke will succeed.
Jason Whitlock said just about every stupid thing imaginable about this team.
For no good reason in particular, he attacked Shane Morris:
Freshman QB Shane Morris started out as a five-star recruit, backed up to four-star, and is now viewed as a guy who is a bit quirky and immature.
He garbled any intelligent understanding of Hoke's recruiting/commitment "policy," in re David Dawson:
Another high-profile lineman, David Dawson, violated Hoke's no-visits policy by taking a trip to Florida after verbally committing to Michigan. Hoke backed down and let Dawson recommit to Michigan.
He attacked Taylor Lewan, for... what, really? For winning the Rimington-Pace Award?
Lewan is the Jadeveon Clowney of the Big Ten, the pampered superstar who's doing his school a favor by suiting up this season.
As far as I can tell, every single word of this missive is mistaken:
There's nothing wrong with Michigan's schemes. Firing offensive coordinator Al Borges won't fix what's wrong with the Wolverines. Hoke doesn't need to parade the sidelines wearing a headset.
I nominate Jason Whitlock for the Big Ten's Rosenberg-Henning Award as the Assclown Writer of the Year. Time; it is such a beautiful thing, when judging a columnist's writing.
I thought you were joking until I clicked the link. More proof that most professional sportswriters have zero idea of what they're talking about.
I'm wondering if ALL coaches need some LOW point in their career to figure out that they need to have courage to change the status quo. Some coaches adjust and move forward from their down year(s), others are swallowed up.
What will happen with Hoke? Not sure, but don't see us plateauing - it will get better or worse in 2-3 years. Worse, if we keep losing 5-6 games and recruits jump ship, better if Hoke can make 9 wins the low bar.
Bo's RB losses forced him to adjust to having a balanced offense, including getting Rick Leach to pass more.
Dantonio went 6-7 in his 3rd year, probably the saving grace being he had an OT win vs. Michigan. But I know Spartan fans thought he was nothing better than an 8-4 coach. In fact, Narduzzi was getting hell after the 2009 season for defensive issues (they gave up average of 34 points in 7 losses). His breakthrough year was 2010, including a road win at Michigan.
I remember the fade during the end of RR era in 2010 (losses to Sparty, Iowa, PSU, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Miss St) - including 3 full-fledged blowouts. RR is better off at Zona, with no pressure and a fan base not used to winning.