Had zero turnovers this week!
alternate headline: man does job
Had zero turnovers this week!
And only dropped one spot in the AP poll!
Iowa, who lost to NIU, beat up Minnesota. DOUBLE RAINBOW! What does it all mean?!?!
It means the Big Ten is awful
Further, that occured while the average ranking given to us by the AP voters went up from 18.11 to 17.88 (although that makes our reading on the proposed "Hater Index" all of -1.12 this week), so there is that as well.
I can't read Hater's Index without thinking of this:
Our coaching staff is still intact!
So Uconn got destroyed by Buffalo 41-12. Not exactly confidence inspiring.
and Notre Dame lost, and Central and Akron got convincingly squashed.
Akron, CMU, and UConn are now 2-12 for the year, with the two wins being squeakers over bad FCS teams. yikes.
Did you expect anything different? What other B1G teams have quality non-conf wins?
Do you really not see the difference between our wins over UConn and Akron and, say, Minnesota's over New Mexico State and San Jose State?
Yes, all of them. That's the ticket!
turned the ball over 5 times! I'm no rocket scientist, but I am beginning to sense that turning the ball over is bad.
Devin is being Devin. I watched him a few times in high school and he made the same bonehead mistakes then as he is doing now. The only difference is, he got away with it in high school because he was so much better than everyone else on the field. He will always have a lot of turnovers, it's just the way he plays.
Why didn't you tell us that a few weeks ago before we got our hopes up?!?!
Silver lining: we grow up.
I was wondering why we don't have a Qb coach. Whatever I guess life goes on.
and there is some real likelihood that we are only a middle-rank team within it. The D will continue to come on, keep us in some games. A great deal now depends on whether Devin remains grounded in upcoming games, on whether the O line comes together.
We're very lucky to be playing Minny at home, in a very winnable game, next Saturday. Win comfortably and the kids will not need to have to look over their shoulders at everyone else's scores. Squeak another one out and everyone's dissapointment and diminished expectations will start to tell on play, too.
Let's see how it goes.
Are going to win the big ten man.
Is more likely to be prepared for B1G teams because a) we have more film on them and experience playing them, and b) because of that he's less likely to get flustered.
He looked confused and flustered in every game but ND. He played unfamiliar opponents in every game but ND.
Minnesota looked pretty bad. Nelson showed some flashes, but overall the offense looked inept. Our DL should have a good game.
On defense, they're middle linebacker was impressive. Hagerman was good when he was on the field, which was surprisingly not the often. Iowa did well by doubling him and/or running away from him. We would be wise to do the same. There a couple plays where he flat out threw the center out of the way on his way to a TFL. Miller will not be able to handle him one on one.
They're... Really? I'm not a spelling Natzi but that's brutal.
That's really more a grammar issue than spelling, since we are complaining about it. Their is a possessive pronoun. They're = they are.
Also, the rest of his grammar seemd fine. It's not as if he doesn't know the difference. Sometimes you just have a brain fart.
I blame the hangover
If these are snowflakes to you then I'll have a snowball of what you're serving.
I'm not sure why Notre Dame losing is so good or celebrated here, it undermines our (team and conference) good win and, combined with losses by CMU, Akron, and UConn further calls into question the ability of our team, which has been under constant scrutiny and question since 4:00pm on September 14th.
You're thinking with your rational brain. I would agree with you 100% if I allowed my rational brain to interfere with my intense hatred of all things Notre Dame. But I don't.
When I put my rational brain into a box and let me irrational brain run free, I feel nothing but intense dislike of all things Notre Dame. By far the most obnoxious fan base in all of college football. I don't like their stadium, which is a rip-off of Michigan's; I don't like their mascot; I couldn't stand the movie "Rudy,"; and worst of all I loathe Lou Holtz.
I'll grant Ara Parseghian was a decent fellow. Old school classy.
But everything else associated with Notre Dame is awful. Everything.
Makes sense. I actually grew up a Notre Dame fan (though probably not an obnoxious one) before I ended up choosing to go to Michigan in 2008. I'm happy to say it took all of approximately 3 hours on campus for me to completely renounce my Notre Dame fandom.
you could have renounced it in 1.
We get a lot of mileage out of "Winningest Team in College Football". It's even painted on our equipment trucks that drive to away games.
Notre Dame is right on our heals for best winning percentage of all time (the best measure of performance). We are only a win or two ahead of them.
They used to lead us for best all time winning percentage until we passed them a few years ago. When we used to brag about most number of wins, they would say "Big deal, you've been playing longer. What really counts is best winning percentage, which we own." They had a point.
Every single loss by them helps us. This record is for all time. It goes well beyond the ups and downs of any particular season.
|Rank||Team||Winning Pct.||Games Won||Games Lost||Games Tied||Games Played|
Dennard did not get away with it against ND. There were at least 5 flags for holding/PI against Dennard and others in the MSU secondary in that game. So much so that Dantonio had a closed-door complaint session with the B1G. As for Roby, I haven't seen enough of him to judge, other than the fact that he is a Buckeye and is probably cheating.
The first half was awful, but after watching the second half, I feel better about Devin. I felt like he needed to spend the bye week getting his confidence back. I was surprised to watch the second half and watch a poised Gardner play pretty well. He threw 1 bad pass and other than that looked pretty good.
I also noticed on the long Touissant TD run, Gardner saw the LBs gearing up to blitz up the middle and audibled to the speed option that went for a TD. Borges also had a couple other calls geared to deal with LBs blitzing up the middle that went well. The LB blitzes confusing our interior OL has been a big worry for me, so I was glad to see we had adapted in the second half.
Anyway, if you want to feel better about the team, rewatch the U-conn game, but start right after the second half fumble. I actually think it says good things about Devin that he was able to pull it together at halftime.
The gameplan was a lot more favorable for Devin in the second half. Shorter passes, more runs - things to get his confidence back. It did seem to help and I'm am quite thankful for that. Hopefully he can keep some positive momentum going for here on out. The bye week came at a very good time.
I also wonder why we don't have a dedicated QB coach. I watch Braxton Miller's passing progression, fairly good, and see Devin regress in two weeks ... well, small sample size I guess. All is not lost, but still, why don't we have a dedicated QB coach?
Which position would you take away a dedicated position coach from? You can only have a certain number of coaches on the staff. I don't know why it would make any difference if the QB coach is also the OC. During position drills the OC has nothing to do, so he coaches the QBs, during the scrimmage situations in practice, he watches the whole play, but if anyone besides the QB needs technique advice, their position coach helps them anyway. It doesn't really take any teaching time away from the QB. And the QB is supposed to be an extension of the OC on the field anyway.
Unsure, I've just been disheartened at the lack of progression of Denard and now Devin as Borges is the "QB Coach". While I fully admit that I may be putting too much weight on the last two games, I was hoping for significantly better improvement through the first 4 games of this season.
Of course, caveats apply. Borges in his 3rd year, Denard not his recruit, etc. and I agree. Just a statement.
I'm pretty sure Borges is our QB coach. He also serves as our OC. That's not an unusual situation.
Right, that's why I said dedicated QB coach, as in one that is not also the OC.
This is pretty much an issue of semantics, because at most schools, the QB coach is basically the passing game coordinator (and thus a co-OC). I think the jury is out on Borges as QB coach but I don't his success or lack thereof is affected by him being OC.
I think that, in general, I agree with you. I'm not unsold for Borges as our OC, but overall QB play this year has been erratic. Of course there is plenty of time for the offense to sort it all out.
The thing I took from the UW-OSU game was how the Buckeyes seemed to take advantage of every Wisconsin mistake. The combination of their talent and scheme makes it so important to not make mistakes and take advantage of theirs, because they will do so on yours. I know it's not exactly rocket science but their offense seemed to jump all over any second opportunity they were provided last night.
There's no way in hell you can put any bad QB mechanics on Borges. Denard just was not a naturally pretty passer, and Devin showed incredible mechanics and ability in the first two games this season, he just ad a stroke in the quarterbacking region of his brain after the ND game. That's not on Borges.
There was some surprise on the board last year when Kentucky scored some decent recruits out of the Cincinnati area. I think it's mostly assumed that for football interest OSU>>Kentucky everywhere, and at the very least everywhere in Ohio.
Last night I was driving from Springfield to Cincinnati and listening to the Wisconsin/OSU game and starting about 20 miles south of Dayton, when I lost reception for WING (Dayton station)...
...it wasn't on! In disbelief I tried every am frequency. I found three different stations carrying Kentucky, two carrying Louisville, one carrying Dayton v. Marist, no end of bigger stations carrying faraway games, but there was not a single station broadcasting Ohio State football with a signal that could carry all the way to Cincinnati.
Their local contract is with a station that goes low-power at night. 300 watts. At one point I was about three miles from their antenna and I still couldn't get a signal.
Just a data point. Thought somebody might be interested.
You're completely wrong on the mechanics...Denard didn't regress in his mechanics at all. He just went from an offense that was 1 or 2 reads then run...to an offense that was NFL progressions.
He wasn't asked to have ANY mechanics under Rich Rod and it was fine...he was running a read-option offense that got WRs wide open. How many times was he asked to drop back and go through his progressions, step up in the pocket and throw a lazer to his target like his name was Brady or Manning? Rarely.
Denard had to do that under Borges and struggled. He also got hurt which limited him as a passer.
How has Devin regressed? He's started what...8 games? He was lights out vs. ND this year, his best game of his career. So he's had 2 bad games. Is that mechanics or is that poor decisions on his part? Turnovers on his part?
He hasn't forgotten how to throw the ball. However, he's always had that "superman" in him. Last year vs. Minnesota he makes that play to Dileo and it works. First game of this year he does the same and finds Dileo and it works. Against ND he does that SAME and makes the worst play in the history of organized sport. That's not mechanics.
Borges can do A LOT of things better, and he's not the best QB coach. But to say these QBs have regressed in their mechanics is a poor argument.
Borges is a MASTER play/formation designer. He's probably one of the best 5 OCs in the country in designing a play. He's not a very good play CALLER. None of that has to do with mechanics though.
How has Devin regressed?
He went from being the nation's most efficient passer in 5 games last year to turning over the ball the most of any player in the country.
Don't get me wrong, I love Devin and I am happy to have him on this team, but to suggest that the past two games hasn't been awful for him is naive in my opinion. That said, of the 9 game sample size, he's been good or great in 7 of them, so there's certainly no reason to panic.
The OP said "regress in their mechanics."
There's no question that each got worse as the year went along, but that's not due to their mechanics.
Denard got worse because he first played in an offense that allowed him to make easy reads and easy throws and his completion percentage was great. Then he was in a new offense. Then he got hurt.
Devin has regressed due to turning over the ball and making poor decisions. Not because of his mechanics getting worse. His mechanics were pretty damn good vs. ND when he was stepping into the pocket, on balance, and firing the ball all over the field.
The reason he's struggled is because he waives the ball around like an idiot, he forces plays then fumbles and he tries to force throws.
He's always run around and thrown against his body, not just now. Hell against ND on the first drive he made some weird ass throw to Joe Reynolds on 3rd down where he slung the ball in a reverse softball motion. But it worked. Those weren't good mechanics though.
Throwing the ball while jumping aren't good mechanics.
So Devin's poor play isn't really about that because he's never been great mechanically. Although he's gotten better, not regressed. He just can't hold on to the f-ing football and his decision making has been awful the last 2 games.
He's thrown a pick in every game he's played, it's not like last year he was All-World and this year he's chopped liver (mechanically). If he doesn't turn the ball over, we're not having this discussion. THAT is his problem. He's always going to be a work in progress mechanically.
Gardner has certainly been inconsistent, but so has his WR/TE corps. Fans tend to overlook the latter issue. Not all of these INTs are necessarily Gardner's fault.
We have a flawed receiving corps. Gallon is the only proven playmaker, but he's undersized. Dileo has great hands but is small and slow. Chesson has the size and speed but is raw, and hasn't yet learned to make plays on the ball in the air. Reynolds and Jackson are too slow. Funchess is big but has so-so hands. Darboh supposedly was going to be the total package, but he's injured.
Twice, Gardner his been picked off (against CMU and UConn) when he threw a deep ball to a receiver in single coverage. That's a perfectly fine decision for a QB to make. On the first one, Gallon appeared to run the wrong route and didn't make it to the spot; on the second, Chesson waited too long to come back to the ball. Gardner has also thrown two INTs that hit his intended receiver in the hands. The one in the UConn game (to Gallon) was not a great throw, but not entirely uncatchable, and it was bad luck that it bounced off Gallon's hands straight in the air. (That's also one of the downsides of having your go-to receiver be 5'8".) The one in the Akron game (to Funchess) was a good throw that Funchess just muffed.
Now, that still leaves four other interceptions this season (one against CMU, one against ND, and two against Akron) which I do consider bad INTs on Gardner's part. But four in four games, while not ideal, isn't horrible for a guy that isn't that experienced. I'm equally concerned about the receiving corps' ability to help him out. Even the greatest QB needs to be bailed out by his receivers sometimes. We really haven't seen that so far this season.
1. Thank GOD for a Bye Week..I really just think that this team needed to hit the reset button. We needed to get healthy, we needed to catch our breath, we needed to have time to make a few personnel changes. I think we come out and hammer Minnesota and a lot of people are eating crow and looking like idiots.
2. We're trying to do TOO much. Borges calls plays like he's got Peyton Manning at QB. And I know..."it's the level of the position." But eventually you have to understand that you don't have Peyton, you don't have the Cowboys OL of the 1990s. You have to play to your strengths.
---Stop running stretch plays to the right
---Give Devin easy throws to build his confidence and get him a rhythm
---Focus on getting first downs in the 1st quarter and just maintaining drives
---Install some easier reads in the offense (1st read, checkdown, RUN type plays) vs. 4-receiver progression plays
---Run behind Lewan more
---Use Dileo more
---Easy on all the play-action...I love it, but he uses it FAR too much. Allow Gardner to just drop back, survey the field and make the throw.
3. Keep disguising the defense (something we didn't do vs. Akron)...when we confuse the OL and/or the QB it helps our DL more than anything else we could do
4. Countess doesn't always have to play NB, he can shadow the other teams best WR like Roby did last night.
5. Give Kenny Allen a shot at punter if Wile continues to struggle.
I'm not sure why everyone seems to think Borges is giving Gardner difficult throws to complete. I see us throwing a lot of slants and little stop routes, which should be easy for most QBs. (And most of the time, Gardner can complete them easily.) If those are difficult throws, what would constitute an "easy" throw?
Also, regarding running to the right, if you throw out a whole side of the field in the running game, you make the run game very one-dimensional. Lewan is awesome but if the D anticipates that it's going his way on a running down, his job gets a whole lot tougher. To be a good running team, you have to be at least minimally effective running left, right, and up the middle. We have to find a way to be better at the latter two.
I know it is a penalty for a defensive player to mimic the snap count to throw off the OL. Does Braxton's clap to initiate the count from the center count as part of the count? In other words, would it be a penalty for defensive players playing against OSU to start clapping randomly while they are lined up?
How come everyone gets on Borges (and many times rightfully so)...but no one ever says anything about Fred Jackson?
I love the man, he's a Michigan Man to the core. No question. All-time greatest RB coach in school history.
But our RBs haven't been much of anything since Mike Hart left.
I'd love to see a Tyrone Wheatley there, if not, that same Mike Hart.
I've wondered this as well.
He must have something going for him ... he's served a long time across several different coaches. One theory I'd heard is he's great at recruiting.
As for his lack of post-Hart success ... could that be due to the shift in offensive philosophy? I'm no X's and O's guy, but with Rodriguez's spread wasn't the O-line all about zone blocking, and might that entail a slightly different coaching technique to recognize gaps and seams? Borges maintained some of this.
Honestly, I don't know ... I'm just guessing.
He's certainly got the talent in house now -- Touissant, Green and Smith -- so I would think we should start seeing some results. Maybe the signs are there but we're just not seeing them? Kind of like Graham Glasgow ... Brian's UFRs seem to reveal he's actually pretty good?
I'm thinking he's a pretty good recruiter. I'm pretty sure he was the recruiter for Green, Dawson, Lewis, & Morris.
Another guy with the "regression" meme.
seriously what the fuck is the point of this thread. I am about done with the board. You are just here to piss and cry about nothing.