Stupid Person Asking Question about End of Half Timeout

Submitted by IncrediblySTIFF on

Rainy Tuesdays are much worse than Mondays, in my opinion, and I was hoping to see a few more thoughts about the time-out called with three seconds left in the half.

Here's my take: there is no significant risk from taking this timeout (chance of a successful hail mary is pretty minimal).  However, there is not much reward there either, as the probability of a turnover-for-touchdown is even less than that of a conversion.

As a Brady Hoke apologist, and admittedly able to find the smallest amount of hope in the least-sensible ways, I would argue that it was a good call.  The fact of the matter is: Penn State was content to let the clock run out and go in for a rest.  Brady Hoke said, "wait a minute there, get on back out here and finish some football."  I like the mindset because I am stupidly loyal and find humor in the call   in that the opposition was trying to do one thing, and Michigan forced them to do the other.

I saw Space Coyote chime in on this as well in a different thread, I would like to hear a few more thoughts.  Seems to me the general sentiment is it was bad because it gave them a chance to throw the ball to the endzone (if PSU thought they had a chance of converting, why didn't they try it themselves)?

Njia

October 14th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^

Because it demonstrates that, like so many other things, Brady Hoke is simply incapable of anything other than magical thinking. You pointed it out yourself: he thought it was gamesmanship without understanding what the next logical move would be by the guy on the opposing sideline.

JamieH

October 14th, 2014 at 12:42 PM ^

If Hoke expected a punt then he is a complete idiot.  No coach in his right mind (well except maybe Brady Hoke) would punt in that situation.  Why would any coach risk a blocked punt or a return? 

No one is ever going to kick it to you in that situation.

tblasius

October 14th, 2014 at 11:22 AM ^

Aren't we missing the obvious? It gave us one more chance to sack Hackenberg. Given that they would go for a hail mary and Hackenberg couldn't get more than 1.5 seconds of protection all night, the chance of a sack had to seem very high. Seems like an ok decision to take another opportunity to nail the opposing team's quarterback.

creelymonk10

October 14th, 2014 at 11:23 AM ^

If you take a timeout there it has to be with at least 7 seconds on the clock to ensure that PSU won't try a hail mary. Then you can either try to setup a return or go for the block. Just better be damn sure not to get a roughing the punter and give them one free play from our 45.

Calling a timeout at 3 seconds was the worst possible thing to do for Michigan. This, along with the QB sneaks on 4th and 2 after staying set for like 10 seconds drove me crazy. You have to know situationals as a football coach. 

ijohnb

October 14th, 2014 at 11:28 AM ^

approximately 0.7 players to injury on each snap.  I would have just let it run out.  I was surprised when nobody on our team blew out an ankle or a knee on that play.

MGoneBlue

October 14th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^

My take's dumber.  It was a secretly brilliant move that may well have won us the game.  

Penn State's line couldn't pass protect for more than two seconds at best.  What better way to get a sack then to force the line to pass pro long enough for the receivers to run a 60 yard route?  So they run the play, Hackenburg gets introduced to the artificial turf for a fourth time, and he returns in the second half a broken husk of a quarterback.  Mission successful if you ask me.

Blue Mike

October 14th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^

The only reason to call the timeout with 3 seconds left is to have a chance that the punt is either blocked or snapped over the punter's head.  Even if they take the timeout with 25 seconds left, it's a pretty dumb decision, because other than the above options, the only other positive thing that can happen would be Norfleet running it back.  You know, the punt returner who has never returned one for a touchdown.

So what you are left with is PSU punting from around midfield, and your best (probable) outcome is that you get the ball somewhere between your own 10-20 yard line.  With 20 seconds left, especially with a quarterback with a penchant for making bad decisions at the wrong time, you aren't doing anything but taking a knee and heading to the lockerroom.

Either way, taking the timeout with 25 seconds maybe makes a little sense, but taking the timeout with 3 seconds left is just dumb.  Let the game go to half time.

Blue Mike

October 14th, 2014 at 3:54 PM ^

Have you seen our passing offense?  What about the first seven games makes you think anything good happens when Gardner starts from his own 20 and has 20 seconds to throw deep balls?  The longest pass play of the day went for 42 and should have been intercepted.

Frankly, maybe PSU should have punted with 25 seconds left and see if Hoke would try to go for it.  The odds were probably better that Gardner would give up a turnover and PSU could have gotten some points.

Again, the wise thing to do in that situation is just go to half time.  Especially when you get the ball to start the second half.

SECcashnassadvantage

October 14th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^

Are you out of your fucking mind? You got them to do something that helped them by being stupid.

pinkfloyd2000

October 14th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^

I can speak for just about everyone (me included) in Section 17...

"WHAT THE FUCK IS HE DOING CALLING TIMEOUT HERE???!!!!"

Several variations of that sentence were heard, from numerous sources.

Soulfire21

October 14th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^

There are two options

  • Don't call it at all
  • Call it immediately with ~25 seconds left, Penn State likely punts and you've got a chance to return it or take a couple shots at the endzone yourself

Calling it with 3 seconds left gives Penn State a Hail Mary shot and Michigan virtually nothing (remote possibility of a pick six)

ldoublee

October 14th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^

No. For the correct way to handle this situation, please see Tom Coughlin from this past week's Sunday Night Football game. Timeout called with 23 seconds left, go for the punt block. My personal preference is to go for the block and not even catch the punt. The only thing that can happen is that the returner fumbles it. You aren't going to get a good return when setting up the block. When I coached I would simply put a guy deep as a safety in case a fake was run. When the ball was kicked I had him run in the opposite direction.

varsity

October 14th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^

I was at the M club luncheon yesterday, and someone asked Brady about said.  He said he wanted to force Franklin to do something, which is why he called a TO.  Said he wished he had done it a few seconds earlier, but that's why.  

cp4three2

October 14th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^

That's the only answer to the timeout. You admit that there's risk involved versus no risk involved in the inexplicable timeout. If he wanted to force them to punt, then take a timeout with time left on the clock. He literally waited until the only thing Penn State had to do was throw a Hail Mary. 

 

If there's some macho mindset to "get on back there and play football," then the football he's playing is stupid. Football is a game defined by mitigating risks and exploiting strengths against opponent weaknesses, not "toughness" or "out toughing" the opponent.  It's become much more complex and Brady Hoke isn't capable of dealing with the strategy involved in modern football. 

 

Of all of the incompetence that Hoke has displayed, calling a timeout so that PSU could throw a Hail Mary at the end of the half might be the most quintessential of his ability to be a head coach of high level football. 

Gulogulo37

October 14th, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^

I was at the Hail Mary Colorado game and I was surprised Colorado didn't just let the clock run out. They were just giving our DL another chance to make a play. What if we had sacked Kordell? Boy would their faces have been red.

jimt1023

October 14th, 2014 at 12:08 PM ^

Hoke essentially gave tham another shot at the endzone for free.  The probability of sucess is small, but there is still no reason to give them another shot at the endzone.  The probability of Michigan forcing a turnover, and returning it for a touchdown is signifigantly smaller.  Its like a stats professor playing the lotery.    

The reason people are upset is that it appeared Hoke was hoping to force them to punt, and potentially get himself another shot at the endzone, and didnt realize that the PSU response would be to simply run another play.

Im not as down on Hoke as some other people are here, but that was a dumb call.  Hoke should be fired because this team is uncompetative and just looks poorly coached.  Taken seperately any of the issues people bring up here (headsets, timeouts, punt formations) really wouldnt be a big deal.  But there certainly seems to be some pretty consistant screw ups, and on top of that his teams are bad.   

BlueinOK

October 14th, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^

If you call a timeout, you call it as soon as you can. They would have to punt and you send your punt team after the kick. You aren't thinking about a return for a touchdown, but a punt blocked for a touchdown, which Michigan has done a few times lately. Calling it when Hoke did was stupid, especially since he put the punt return team out there thinking Penn State would punt. 

BiSB

October 14th, 2014 at 12:25 PM ^

You know how I know this wan't part of a Hoke super-secret plan? HE SENT THE PUNT RETURN TEAM OUT THERE.

For all I know, Brady Hoke may be a very smart man. But that move demonstrated the strategic foresight of a new-born panda.

IncrediblySTIFF

October 14th, 2014 at 12:36 PM ^

Yeah.  Well I can only push my delusions so far, and this seems like a move you'd make while playing madden.  I know that the programming in this game is going to cause the computer to punt, so I'll call a timeout (tee-hee).  Oh an also, I find that running punt return safe is a pretty adequate defense while playing video games (those linebackers really have the ups to snatch anything over the middle).

But really, in my apologies I will stick to impulse reaction by Hoke forcing the opposition to do something that they weren't planning on doing; forcing Penn State back on the field when they thought they could get away with letting the clock run out.

blueblueblue

October 14th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^

I think Hoke loves to play weird psychological games with opponents, evidenced by his unwillingness to give out any, or outright lie about, injury information for even the most unimportant players. But his psychological games seem to largely be of the type that leaves his opponent scratching his head with curiosity as to what the heck Hoke is doing. I think these games are one way Hoke feels like he can make a difference, but they largely just have the effect of producing collective wtf's and smh's. 

SECcashnassadvantage

October 14th, 2014 at 1:34 PM ^

It's kind of true. How could that benefit our team in any way whatsoever? To make them do something they didn't want to? like score a touchdown. Why don't we just put 10 on the field at times, wait that's been covered too. Anyone that thinks Hoke has a chance of moving our program to mediocrity at all is beyond slow. He could win the rest of the games by pure luck, and some like the op would want to keep him. He simply can't coach or motivate a team, and that is a fact. Here's to Devin motivating the team the rest of the year! We are a bottom 20 team in the NCAA with top 20 talent. F!