Football Display Case
national champs baby
Patrick Hruby is doing God's work.
first comment: "EVERY ATHLETE HAS ASPIRATIONS OF WINNING AND WE HAVE OUR FAVORITES BUT IT IS ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO OTHER STUDENTS ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS, TOO!"
stupid Pistons and their refusal to tank properly
rundown of Michigan's riser
needs moar usage
so much for that
This list is completely arbitrary and not a genuine analysis of the relative merits of state fossils.
will be michigan's highest pick in a while
money has to go somewhere
I am only motivated by people who have no opinion about me.
the just released schedules were a flat-out statement that the B10 doesn't believe SOS will matter in playoff selection
but I thought that draft was supposed to be incredibly loaded?
If you're gonna go please be in the first round.
another delightful side effect of a 14 team conference
The reason he is in trouble over this is PAST OFFENSES. Part of his sentencing from the last DUI was revoked license, or an extension of the license that was ALREADY REVOKED. Don't forget lying to an officer of the court.
I think because this clearly shows that the previous punishments meant to teach him to be accountable haven't worked. When you're on your second strike, a decision like this is disastrous. If this was my kid, I would be beside myself. The kid has so much going for him and he pisses it away. He's a great athlete, seemingly smart, articulate, good-looking. He could have written his ticket in so many different ways. But he continues to make bad choices.
Someone on the board yesterday said that he or she sees Stonum around and that he doesn't drink anymore (this person could be lying, I realize). This incident doesn't mean that he hasn't done a lot of big things right.
I think everything you say is very valid. The question is how Michigan should respond. He can be punished without kicking him out of the program. (I'm repeating myself in this thread at this point. I know.)
It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra
...to a friend of mine who used to do the same thing after getting a DUI. That doesn't make it right, but I think this is a lot more common and a lot more understandable than people on the board are making it out to be. I don't think the judge was wildly harsh, don't get me wrong, but I still wouldn't kick him off of the team. Stonum has a lot on his plate. He messed up. Make him run a bunch of stairs - or, as I said yesterday, bike around town for practice.
I guess the issue boils to down to how many "second" chances does a player get? At some point, committing multiple crimes (whether serious like a DUI or more harmless like driving with a revoked license) has to matter. Judges revoke license in addition to other sentences for a reason: They don't want the person driving. If he doesn't get kicked off the team for this, when does he? One more offense? Two? And what kind of example does this set for the rest of the team?
Disgruntled former moderator. I got a lot of problems with you people!
I should clarify my position by saying that I don't think that Hoke has to kick him off of the team based only on what we know now. A lot depends to me on what Hoke told Stonum prior to this incident. Did he say, "You can't ever do this (drink and drive) again"? Or did he say, "You've got to keep your nose cleaner than clean"? In the former instance, I think you can still keep him. In the latter, you can't.
I don't have a great answer to your questions beyond what I just said because I don't know more (and maybe I wouldn't anyway). I do think, though, that we have to remember that Hoke can punish Stonum in a way that will be meaningful but that doesn't involve kicking him off of the team. I'm sure the players don't take running stairs until they puke for thirty straight days lightly, for example.
Whether you agree with it or not, I don't think the punishment was only taking into consideration his most recent mistake. The history of alcohol-related incidents and probationary incidents is what this punishment was based on.
The probationary incidents, though, are that he hasn't been to an AA meeting in two weeks (he was at the bowl), hasn't paid his fines (probably doesn't have any money), and drove to the meeting w/out a license. I wonder if he even had a lawyer. It doesn't seem like there was anyone there to tell his side of things.
...that might have played a role in the judge's decision:
Did he tell his probation officer that he was going to the bowl and it would get in the way of his required AA meeting? Did he make any effort to find a solution?
Has he explained his financial situation to his probation officer, if that's the reason for not paying the fines, and was the explanation reasonable?
There's a big difference between good-faith attempts to work out problems up front that turn out to be unresolvable, vs. after-the-fact explanations and excuses. The harsh sentence makes me think they're trying to get his attention. There might be a reason for that.
Maybe Pope is a hard-assed judge who happened to get up on the wrong side of the bed that day, or maybe he made a reasonable decision based on information and nuance we don't have.
but in Illinois it is a felony eligible offense and a mandatory seven days jail for even first offense. Seems actually low to me given his history. Would have expected 30-45 days.
our package is our package, and it’s pretty big. - Greg Mattison, Bowl Practice Presser Tr. 12-13-11.
Lying to your probation officer, and lying about the very thing which got you there in the first place, seems pretty serious to me. The whole point of the punishment is to help this guy learn to make the right decisions in situations like this, and obviously that didn't happen. Repeat offender. Sometimes the harshest punishment is the only one that works.
Does this make room for Demar Dorsey?
"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"
I'm starting to play flag football on Thursdays beginning next week. I have 4 years of playing eligibility left. Perhaps I could be of assistance?
He's got more important things to worry about other than football. Get it straight now, before you have a family that relies on you.
I'd be interested to know how many people are only reacting this way because they gave MSU friends so much shit over DUI stuff, and now feel embarrassed.
I don't remember any MSU player committing 2 DUIs, violating probation 2 times, serving 2 times in jail, and still remain on the team. I think a lot of people here now feel that rocks have been thrown in glass houses.
Sadly, I think Hoke is going to have to make the choice to move forward without Stonum. He's had too many chances already. Hopefully Darryl can get himself out of this cycle and get on with his life.
I do not mean to pry, but you don't by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?
He's gotta go. "THIS IS MICHIGAN FERGODSAKES" means more than that we win a lot of football games. This is the kind of thing that separates us (and used to separate Notre Dame) from the unwashed masses.
I think at this stage of his career at Michigan, it would be wrong to let him go for this offense. But, I think a suspension would be fair. It's really frustrating that he's gotten himself into these situations. Whether he was being arrogant or careless, it just doesn't make any sense.
He's already been suspended for a year, not to mention his suspension when Rodriguez was here. How much good is another 2 or 4 or 6 games going to do?
Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 20
If we decide to slap him with a 6 game suspension and he wants to leave, than so be it. But, I don't think it makes sense to kick off a 5th yr senior that we've invested a lot in for this probation violation. I understand that we need to punish him, and we should. Six games or so for a probation violation like this is understandably harsh. But, I also want the guy to succeed. If we feel that he's got a better shot at succeeding in life by keeping him in Ann Arbor rather than kicking him off the team, than I think we let the guy finish out his career. If this were another alcohol-related offense, than I would kick him off the team and see to it that he gets the help he needs.
He skipped a year of playing while still remaining with the team. He did not lose a single minute of playing time because he gets to play an extra year now if he stays.
I think that is why I like it here, I have plenty of company.
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
I really liked the redshirt punishment. I liked it because we kept Stonum within the structure of the team. We didn't just cut him lose and risk him spiralling down into some kind of cycle like Cissoko did. He had structure, he had people he could reach out to, and he clearly knew what he had to do. He had two carrots. If he completes his parole without incident it means no time in jail and it means he is back on the team.
Yet not only is he still driving, he's also lying to his parole officer, and skipping court ordered meetings. I'm not even going to touch the fine thing since his family could have legit fiscal hardships, but man I wish he'd sold his car to pay for the fines.
At this point he's definitely lost the right to play for Michigan football. If we want high character kids we're going to have to enforce the rules.
At the end of the day despite those two carrots he found multiple ways to get himself in trouble with the judge. His time is up.
We'll honor his scholarship for the Winter. So if he is really turning his life around he has the ability to graduate (he'll have 4 years) and pull a Russel Wilson. Or to try for the pros. We're not kicking him out in the cold, but at some point you have to draw the line. If he is serious he has options in front of him for a fresh start somewhere else and can still make the pros. If he wants to keep shooting himself in the foot, at some point you have to admit you can't stop him.
I agree that Hoke did the right thing with the redshirt (to keep him within the support framework, to help him, to keep him on the scout team, etc.), but let's stop calling it "punishment." We used to redshirt players all the time, and hopefully, when Hoke restocks the cupboards, we will redshirt most freshman. It was punishment to Stonum, we would be starting and would be closer to the NFL, but we need to avoid calling it punishment if it's what we ultimately ask most of our recruits to do.
A scholarship slot has opened up for Arnett it seems.
Hoke has to kick him off the team doesn't he? How many more chances goes this guy get?
4th Generation Student
Class of 2014
Without knowing his timeline of offences or the actual wording of his probation order, this is my take. If he was driving without a licence, it's a relatively minor transgression in the big scheme of things. If part of his court ordered porbation was that he not drive, it's a different story because he's essentially violating a court order. Either way, good luck to this young man......he has problems and judgement issues but he falls short of being Charles Manson.
As for Arnett why do people keep thinking he even wanted to be here. After is release he was quick to choose MSU. He's a good player but doesn't want to be here......let it go.
BTW......don't get me wrong. If my own kid was given a ticket for driving without a licence, the ticket would be the least of their concerns. A minor discrection by statute would still draw the wrath of a parent!!!!
He didn't leave the house without his wallet or forget to renew his DL when it came up--he was driving without a license because his license had been revoked as punishment for a DUI,
Not driving wasn't part of his probation order--it was part of his sentence
Respectfully, your comment does not make any sense.
As part of his probation, he needed keep his nose clean. He did not have a license, because it was presumably suspended. It was suspended becuase he was arrested for driving under the influence. So, when he got busted for driving without a license (a consequence of his criminal conviction) he obviously violated the court's trust that he would carry out the remainder of his sentence without problems. He didn't do that. The court has stopped believing/trusting him. Therefore, the court decides to send another message in hopes that he finally "gets it".
Now, the football question is separate. I assume that he was not drinking, otherwise it would have been reported on. Likely, his indiscretion was driving himself to the courthouse/pbt/whatever it was on his own and without a license. That, in and of itself, should not be reason for dismissal from the team.
What may be reason for dismissal, however, is if Hoke said, look, you have got to complete probation without any difficulties and I trust you to do that. If so, he's gone.
On the other hand, I suspect what happened is that Hoke said, you can't drink. This is a problem. Stay out of trouble here out. Stonum was trying to complete his probation by showing up in the morning, but was dumb enough to do that driving himself. The issue will be what did he and Hoke agree on? Did Daryl breach that trust by driving without a license? Has he stayed clean and out of trouble except for the license?
When did your mother let you out of the basement Mr. Rosenberg?
Got a 20 year old son who is clueless about life? I was a resident advisor in a dorm at Michigan for 2 years and I can tell you that being an idiot is not that unusual amongst the young.
I'll trust Hoke to do what makes the most sense, and hope that he finds a way to help Stonum that is focused on him as a person and not as a football player.
People saying that this is a victimless crime and it shouldn't affect his status on the team are ignoring the fact that he was EXTREMELY lucky Hoke didn't boot him in the first place. This isn't sparty. If you want to practice for another year fine, but you don't deserve to be on the field. This is Michigan.
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
- Vince Lombardi
Can't see how Hoke can keep him on the team after this -- at the press conference announcing his hiring as coach, Hoke stressed accountablity and character. He's given Stonum every chance. The kid has continued to demonstrate poor judgment. Lying to the court/law enforcement is the real clincher for me -- I just can't see how you keep him on the team after that. The only thing that will get Stonum's attention at this point is taking away football. I hope he gets the help he needs and gets his life together.
Obviously from an on-the-field standpoint this sucks -- Stonum's return next fall was one of the things we all counted on to soften the blow of losing Junior Hemingway. Our mediocre WR recruiting the last couple of years is gonna come back to haunt us. Wish we had targeted some higher-upside WR prospects in this recruiting class.
He will not be eligible regardless missing that many classes. I just hope he can continue his education. I have made worse mistakes in life drinking when boating many times. The difference is I got away with it. I was young and foolish and I would bet the judge drank and drove when he was young, which doesn't make it right. Just saying he should keep getting help and if he doesn't stop the penaltys should increase. Tough situation! Getting behind a wheel of any vehicle is stupid, and our mind is clouded when we are drunk. The key is to plan ahead before you drink to eliminate the possibility of driving. I hope he learns that. Best advice is to not drink at all.
[Caved troll is caved. Sorry, Mobile app users.]
Curious, will he actually serve 10 days? If so, might that force him to miss the start of the semester (if it hasn't already started) and potentially be dropped from his classes? Would his status as an active student be in jeopardy? My apologies for not having read any articles that may answer these questions.
In my opinion Stonum has blown his last chance. It has nothing to do with how MSU (or Iowa or Florida or anyone else) handles their cases. He has not lived up to his legal obligations and his obligations to the University of Michigan. Let him finish up the school year on scholarship, and add him to the "firm handshake" list. He need not be kicked off the team, per se--he simply should not be given the opportunity of a 5th year. I certainly agree with anyone who may think this harsh, but how many opportunities must he be given before he pays the piper?
I got a letter from the government the other day . . .
However, assuming today is his first day in jail, he will miss only one week of classes. Now, plenty of people recover from one missed week of classes. I am not saying it’s easy, but it can be done.
Because there are 8 months until football season, Hoke has the luxury of waiting a while to decide his status. I doubt that Hoke will kick him off the team immediately, because there is no pressing need to make that decision. If this had happened in August, Stonum would be done.
New York, NY
He has lost the privilege of putting on the winged helmet every Saturday in the fall. If the University allows him to stay enrolled then so be it, that is their decision. But as the CEO of the football team, Hoke needs to make an example of Stonum and dismiss him, no matter how good of a player he is.
Was it even a question when Mike Milano was kicked off the team?
You must spare me
I don't think he leaves Hoke with much of a choice in the matter. So much for not skipping a beat at WR next year.
Well, now this sucks. I've been throwing so many daggers at Dantonio the past few years that I have to be consistent. Much as I hate to say it, but if I were Hoke, I'd boot him for good. Maybe I'd try to keep him in school, just to ensure his life not turn into a total dumpster fire, but there'd be no more football for Stonum at Michigan.
if hoke wants to demon
strate his commitment to accountability, he'll tell stonum to clear out his locker. playing for michigan is a privilege, and he has abused this privilege several times over.
here's to hoping roundtree, gallon, dileo, and darboh step up big next year.
It's been a lot. Its been a roller coaster that for some reason seemed like it would never get good. But you know what? We kept fighting. It's like that old saying goes, "Those Who Stay Will Be Champions." -David Molk
Where are all the apologists who spent the day yesterday explaining how it's no big deal and Stonum should just run a few extra stairs?
He's got to go. It's sad. But it's the way it has to be.
His football career can continue at a smaller college.
This isn't about his alcoholism. I think most of us agree that alcoholism is a problem best dealt with via treatment, therapy, etc. We've all know great people who've been trapped by alcoholism. But half of Stonum's problem are only tangentially related to his drinking problem. He twice violated probation. And now he has driven without a suspended license and lied to an officer of the court. He didn't do these things because of alcohol. He did them because he doesn't get it, or doesn't want to get. These things cannot be excused via "But I have a disease." He does have it. And he deserves help. But jeez.
We all know this wasn't the first time he drove on a suspended license. He had a bunch of other ways to get to the probation office (friends, bus, run, etc.). Whether or not Hoke wants to keep him on the practice squad is up to him. I would love to see the kid graduate but he should never see the Michigan Football field again.
1. NEVER drive without a valid driver's license. Take the bus, call a cab, find dependable friend, but don't drive without a valid license.
2. NEVER, ever, under any circumstances co-sign an auto loan. It's simply not worth it. Save up the cash and buy the car out right. You're just begging for financial and relationship problems and I'm shocked how many adult parents do this for their kids. Don't believe me that it's a bad idea? Watch every third episode of Judge Judy, you'll see what I mean.
I guess one way to look at it is what would you want the punishment to be for your kid if he/she found him or her self in this situation?
Very tough case with lots of shades of grey. We do not know the entire story. I think Hoke will do his best to make the right decision for his team and for Daryll Stonum.
Whatever happens I hope he learns from it.
Here's hoping for a bright future. This team does try hard and I will continue to support them.
If it was my kid after 2 DUIs and multiple probation violations? Easy answer there. Have fun in jail. I would explicitly ask his coach to remove him from the team and I would bring his ass home after serving his sentence to begin treatment to straighten his life out.
Some of you are forgetting the long string of events that got to this point. This one singular event is not a big deal. Its a compounded issue due to his history.
Bye bye Stonum. Good luck with whatever you choose.
whatever coach Hoke decides ...I'd like to see him play, but I'm sure I'm in the minority ...
Go Blue !!
Soo many holier than thou Michigan fans..