That sounds about right. Will be interested to see how Hoke handles this - Stonum had strikes already, and jail time is never a positive.
to play football, not to play trumpet
That sounds about right. Will be interested to see how Hoke handles this - Stonum had strikes already, and jail time is never a positive.
gave sparty? That is right up there with the comment in the paper from someone who thought their life was in danger because he didn't have a license.
I've been saying for some time that if he screwed up again (and this counts as that type of mistake), then let him complete his academic career at UM but otherwise don't let him on the field. Playing football is a privilege, not a right, and getting caught drinking and driving twice, plus this bonehead issue with driving on a revoked license (and I'm sure this isn't the first actual time he's done that), makes it difficult to see him maturing into the type of player that should play for UM. And this isn't some moral stance - if he wasn't a good football player, he'd probably have been booted out long ago (and maybe even out of the University - I'm not sure how probation and jail time affects a student's continued enrollment at the school).
"I found something that became something I love to do. And that's gather information through reading, expanding my knowledge."
I hope he pulls his fucking head out of his ass.
I wonder if he needs a psych eval. Repeated blunders like this may be a reflection of a deeper issue that might be treated with medication/counseling.
I'm guessing Stonum will be gone. Maybe he can catch on at GVSU or something.
F you, Magnus. Go Lakers.
/jokingly oversensitive about alma mater
Stonum has been a student at Michigan since January 2008. He should have a degree by now. Do you think he should just enter the NFL or CFL Draft and get on with his life?
I suppose he could declare for the NFL Draft, but nobody's going to pick him. Renaldo Sagesse was a prize for the CFL, so maybe he can play for one of the seven Roughriders franchises in Canada.
If one didn't know better, I would think you're talking about the Lingerie Football League. The Ottawa Roughriders is almost as bad as the worst mascot I recall from my youth. I would regularly attend Milwaukee Admirals minor league hockey games, and I would chuckle when the Peoria Prancers came to town.
really does not have any choice but to cut him loose, does he? I mean the red shirt was kind of probation of its own, a last chance, and if jail time does not violate his football probation it is hard to imagine what would. Hoke has a lot of goodwill going at this point and pulling a Dantonio here would be a black eye and personally I don't think it is worth it. I mean maybe even give the kid the opportunity to practice if you want, practice for another year or transfer, but I don't think he can see the field here again.
Stonum is already in the system in Michigan. He needs a fresh start in a new state. Most of all, though, it would help him to realize that he does not have odorless feces.
Paris Hilton. Lindsey Lohan. Daryl Stonum. Why does America keep locking up its beautiful young people???
It's like some kind of fascist dictator land or something!!!
I've managed to stay out of jail, and I'm gorgeous.
Only if that's really you in that avatar.
There is nothing beautiful about Paris or Lindsey...
Lindsey hasn't been the same since Mean Girls, well before she went to jail. A shame too, she could've be "it"...instead Mila Kunis and Emma Stone have taken that spot she could've had.
Emma Stone looks like she stole her mouth from a sauropod.
I suggest you consult Playboy's evaluation of Lindsay Lohan. It may change your assessment. Maybe not, but its at least some additional evidence to consider.
With the skill Playboy has at photoshop, they can make anyone sexy.
I enjoyed Lindsey's boobs in Machete'
quite nice, weren't they.
Here in Houston you get 2 for 1 time served, i.e. 1 day in equates to 2 days served, plus you can serve consecutive weekends in lieu of days.
I think in Michigan you get 6 days for each 30 served.
The day you go in and the day you come out.
Day at a time I suppose
...in Ann Arbor, you get Ten for Two.
He gone. Shame.
Hard to see any author write any other ending to this story.
Yea, the first thing that popped into my head was the scene from family guy where Peter wants to meet Colonel Sanders, except with Peter yelling "STONUM" and the guy behind the counter saying "gone" instead of "dead".
...send him a link to where he can buy a freaking bus pass?!
City buses are free when you swipe your MCard, which he has a student. So....
It's time to cut Stonum. Honor his scholarship for the winter team so he can finish off here if he wants. However make it clear that he's not on the team and can't work his way back.
UM couldn't offer Stonum's scholarship to Arnett.
Wow. That judge needs to go back to first year law..
[tries to throw voice without moving lips] I say we let him go...
who said that?? [gives menacing eyes towards everyone in room]
I SAY YA LET ME HAVE 'IM FIRST
*Covers Ears and Closes Eyes* La La La La this is me not listening
Malum in se and malum prohibitum. Judge needs to learn it.
Its like his third offense in less than a year. I think the judge had plenty of factual support to sentence him to jail. Do you mean to say that someone who commits multiple crimes should not receive jail time simply because the crimes are not inherently evil? If so, it might be time for you to be the one that goes back to first year law school.
Don't lie to the court (which your PO is normally considered part of) or skip meetings the judge ordered you to attend. That always gets you the hammer.
...I (as in just me personally) think he's done.
I think the only thing that could save him is if he's gone above and beyond and been PERFECT in the eyes of Coach Hoke over the year.
Note: as for Coach Hoke's comment on Stonum's status "it hasn't changed"...he said that yesterday, before this verdict and it meant that Stonum was still suspended. I think people are reading too much into it. He was just waiting until the verdict came out, so we'll see what this sentence means.
Right, and before Hoke said Stonum's status hasn't changed, he said "Until we know all the facts..." Now that the facts are out, it will be interesting to see how Hoke will respond.
Probably a great kid struggling with some huge problems. Not the least is judgment. Most alcoholics (multiple DUI's mean you probably drove drunk 100's of times) need to make big changes in their life to beat the disease / illness / demons in their head.
He didn't relapse, he didn't get a DUI, he wasn't intoxicated.
He was just stupid and drove to the probation office at 7am because it's winter break and he couldn't get a ride that early in the morning.
Should've walked, took the bus, called a cab...you're a football player at Michigan. A wide receiver at that...RUN! Or call up one of the groupies and have them take you and explain it to your girlfriend later.
...just don't drive.
Sorry, your post makes it seem like he was driving under the influence again. He wasn't.
on a suspended, to his PO's office. how the hell did he get through admissions?
cut him loose and wish him the best of luck.
I'm interested in hearing the latest spin on how this wasn't a big deal and he deserves another shot. Brian, this includes you. Straight from jail to the practice field (again) - where have a I heard this before?
Big difference between a assault and battery charge and a driving without a license..
Or even a DUI. If you can't see that you're a moron.
But no one is arguing that those 2 crimes are similar.
This is his 4th offense and one that requires jail time (again). It's a big deal. There is not a single 4 time offender (no matter the crime) that should be able to play after serving yet another round of jail.
For fun, try going back to the threads covering Stonum's status after his last DUI. Of those that argued he should have a 4th chance (which he got, obviously), about 95% argued that OK, SRS LAST CHANCE HERE - any more mistakes at all and he is gone no question! Now we have another mistake that will land him in jail for 10 days and people want him to remain on the team. It's pretty sad. If I wasn't lazy I'd go dig up the thread - I'm sure a lot of those last chancers are now saying he should still stay on the team.
Which thread have you been reading?
Magnus: I'm guessing Stonum will be gone. Maybe he can catch on at GVSU or something.
ijohnb: He really does not have any choice but to cut him loose, does he? I mean the red shirt was kind of probation of its own, a last chance, and if jail time does not violate his football probation it is hard to imagine what would. Hoke has a lot of goodwill going at this point and pulling a Dantonio here would be a black eye and personally I don't think it is worth it. I mean maybe even give the kid the opportunity to practice if you want, practice for another year or transfer, but I don't think he can see the field here again.
Tater: Stonum is already in the system in Michigan. He needs a fresh start in a new state.
His Dudeness: He gone. Shame.
CRex: It's time to cut Stonum. Honor his scholarship for the winter team so he can finish off here if he wants. However make it clear that he's not on the team and can't work his way back.
Mr Yost: I hate to say it... ...I (as in just me personally) think he's done.
Laser Wolf: I know we badly need his talents on the outside next season, but we routinely lambast MSU and the like for placing wins over integrity. He has to get the boot. He's had his chances and again and again has proven he just doesn't understand what he needs to do to earn his place on this team.
GWhizz: I am torn about this. Stonum has had his share of off-the-field issues, but he did seem to be trying. However, this latest lapse supports a pattern of misconduct (military term); perhaps he is best let go. I am glad I do not have to make this decision.
JewofM: I do not see how Hoke can keep him on the team. He already had two strikes and now he has to serve jail time. Regardless of the severity of his transgression, he should be gone.
LSAClassOf2000: 10 Days Sounds Fair, but sadly, I tend to believe that this also marks the end of his time on the team and at the school, which is a shame. He has great potential as a player and I know many of us were excited to get him back from the suspension, but I don't see how he comes back now. Wherever he goes, hopefully he can succeed there.
A good portion of the comments are "No big deal" (e.g., Mr. Rager, amongst many others). Certainly not all, but quite a bit.
I think now that's he going to jail for ten days, people have finally opened their eyes ("oh no, we can't have a jail bird on the team!"), but that shouldn't matter - whether they would have decided to send him to jail or not, he should have been on the zero tolerance plan*. Blatantly violating your probation and then lying about it at this point should result in gonzo.
*He may have been, for all I know, but it doesn't seem likely.. Hoke may have been waiting for confirmation of the charges, but I would have liked him to say yesterday "If these allegations are true, there will be a change in Stonum's status." Instead he punted with the "no change in status" statement.
Let ye who without sin cast the first stone.
Some holier than thou dudes around here. I would love to see how you go home after eating dinner out. I bet you all take the AATA
First of all, that's irrelevant since Arnett already committed to MSU. Secondly, and I ask this sincerely, where did you hear that Michigan told Arnett we were full?
Because he wasn't told we were full.
...just a misunderstanding of Denard's eating motion.
The scholarships are good through the academic calender,so it wouldn't be free to use until after the winter term. At least that is what Mr. Webb says. Which is why we can still recruit, but be full for Arnett for his timeline. They are at 85 through the winter term. Tom VH reported too.
I know we badly need his talents on the outside next season, but we routinely lambast MSU and the like for placing wins over integrity. He has to get the boot. He's had his chances and again and again has proven he just doesn't understand what he needs to do to earn his place on this team.
We lambast MSU for overlooking and turning a blind eye, not for sticking with and trying to help troubled young men. If this was MSU, Stonum would not have been suspended all season, he'd be playing. MSU let's guys walk straight from a prison bus to the stadium. Sticking with a kid like Hoke is doing is not really helping the product on the field this year, but he has probably helped Stonum quite a bit. People will point to the fact that he's back in jail, but one can only imagine where Stonum would be if his scholarship was yanked last summer and he couldn't finish his Michigan degree and he wasn't in this sort of structured atmosphere.
The driving without a license and violating parole is a big mistake, but I can only imagine where he would be if Hoke just cut and run to "save face" for the program. This is not overlooking the problem or ignoring it. It's investing time and energy in trying to help a young man make something of his life after he's made a number of mistakes.
Spin. At. It's. Finest.
Boot Stonum now. He doesn't understand jail time and fines are bad, yet somehow you think giving him a free ride at UM is going to give him some kind of perspective? The dude can't remember he doesn't have a license, yet we should cater to him and help right his life? When he has no interest in working to right it himself? He has had several chances and blown them all up. He is not changing and not getting that there is a problem. Buh bye.
I am torn about this. Stonum has had his share of off-the-field issues, but he did seem to be trying. However, this latest lapse supports a pattern of misconduct (military term); perhaps he is best let go. I am glad I do not have to make this decision.
I think he truly is a good kid. That doesn't mean he should be able to play for Michigan.
I feel like I want a harsher punishment more often than the average fan. I want first time DUIs to be dealt with in an extreme way. Say at least a 6 game suspension.
I want acts of violence to also be dealt with using an actual "no tolerance" policy.
It's just so tough though in this situation. The goal should always be to make this young man a better person. You can't be handed things and you should be punished when you screw up. It just sucks that what would be considered an innocuous offense by most is likely going to be the final straw.
I've done some pretty dumb things in my life and not gotten caught doing them. I've also been caught doing dumb things too. Luck, fate, or whatever you chalk it up to - so I feel bad for him but at the same time really don't. The only way to never get caught doing dumb things is to not do them.
I hope the kid can get himself right. My feeling is that we will part ways soon. Best of luck to you Mr. Stonum.
"The only way to never get caught doing dumb things is to not do them."
Someone needs to tell this to several family members of mine.
Hoke can keep him on the team. He already had two strikes and now he has to serve jail time. Regardless of the severity of his transgression, he should be gone. And spare me this whole we were all young and make mistakes stuff. He is like what 21 years old? It is not like he is 10. He knows right from wrong. He knew that he was on probation and that driving on a suspended license is against the law. He knew that if caught, he risked jail time. Yet he did it anyway.
Agree. I don't know the guy, but given what I do know, if you don't want to ask someone for a ride, or can't find a ride, how hard is it to call a cab in Ann Arbor to get across town? It seems like there's a piece missing with him (based on this very bad decision, after a series of bad decisions and time in front of a judge).
If Hoke wants guys who are accountable to each other, maybe Stonum isn't the guy. Too bad - I really liked him.
If Stonum doesn't have a valid driver's license, why does he even have a car? For what he pays in insurance alone, he could pay for cabs for whereever he needs to go.
We're I Hoke, one of the first conditions I would have put on earning back a starting spot would be to send his car home/sell it and not get another until his license was reinstated. Removing temptation never hurts when rehabilitating a teenager/young adult.
the flight back from NOLA, that he overslept. He woke up and saw his world turning to shit. From that point on, he was focused on getting there, not the implications of getting caught driving.
D-1 athletes have so much of their time taken up, it's easy for me to be sympathetic to someone who has to make it to a meeting at 7:00 AM and is running late. He shouldn't have driven the car, etc., etc., and he should be punished, but this was not an anti-social act.
The probation office is not THAT far away. After all is said and done, he probably could have gotten there faster had he laced up his Adidas and ran full out.
For all you kids out there, here's some unsolicited advice: If you don't have a license, don't drive.
We're disagreeing about what to do in the face of said dumbness.
too bad arnett cant still cant still come :(, can he?
...but sadly, I tend to believe that this also marks the end of his time on the team and at the school, which is a shame. He has great potential as a player and I know many of us were excited to get him back from the suspension, but I don't see how he comes back now. Wherever he goes, hopefully he can succeed there.
Here's the link.
Here are some quotes from it:
Pope said earlier in court today that Stonum has had four alcohol-related encounters with the criminal justice system, which he called "extremely unusual" for someone Stonum's age.
Pope said the court has no record of Stonum attending any 12-step meetings in the past two weeks, which he is required to do. Pope also said Stonum has "yet to pay a dime" for fines and fees he owes for probation. He also told Stonum that he's not eligible to apply for a driver's license.
"Trust is the easiest thing to lose, and the hardest thing to regain Darryl, and that's the situation you're in."
He's definitely having to learn some tough life lessons. Hopefully he can truly learn from all of this and realize the importance of living responsibly. I don't see any way that he stays on the team at this point, but I really hope all of this affects him for the better (i.e., he uses this season of his life as a chance to grow and mature).
EDIT: After thinking about it a little more, it seems to me that there's a logical explanation for why Stonum hasn't attended any 12-step groups in the past two weeks: the bowl game. Stonum still had responsibility there, either to inform his probation officer that he'd be out of town for a while, or to see if he could attend a meeting in NOLA while there. I don't know how feasible that would have been, but I wonder if he at least informed the proper authorities that he would be pre-occupied with the bowl preparations.
Will Pope excommunicate Stonum?
even if he could pay his own way, conditions of probation often include not leaving state without court approval.
Bowl is not likely the reason.
We saw him out on Bourbon Street the night before the game. No idea if he plaid his own way or came with the team.
He has or is close to getting his degree, also M's APR issue.
frankly, that's a bizarely harsh sentence for the crime. as a lawyer, i' confident that if he had landed in front of another judge, he would've been given a stern warning.
This didn't need to go the way it did...I realize I'm in the minority here, but I don't think this changes anything re: his status on the team. He drove with a suspended license. What a judge decided to do about that doesn't change that one way or the other. I still don't think it merits kicking him off of the team. Driving without a license is a victimless crime. Hoke can punish him without kicking him off of the team.
Although I think driving on a revoked, not just suspended, license is a pretty serious matter. Perhaps he wouldn't have gotten the jail time just for that. He also lied about it, isn't paying for his obligations to the court, is skipping meetings. He also had a poor record of following the terms of his earlier probation.
Those are a lot of bad facts to come out all at once. Maybe Hoke could forgive one more serious mistake. But combined with a continuing lack of responsibility, I just can't see how he does.
The meetings: He was in NOLA, presumably.
The fines: He probably doesn't have any money.
He needed someone there to tell his side of the story. He seemingly didn't.
You and I are usually on the same page but I have to disagree with you here. He committed a serious crime and got off pretty easily the first time. But he had obligations to fulfill, including reporting to his probation officer like everyone else in his situation is required to do. Regardless of the situation, it was required. If it were you or me in that situation and we knew we would be out of town until late the night before, we would make arrangements to be sure that we did not miss the meeting (e.g. write a letter explaining the situation and ask that the meeting be postponed by even a day). And we all know that there are court-appointed defense attorneys available to all defendants. He should have used one. He should have talked to his coaches who would have given him advice as to how to proceed.
Maybe I'm being a little to harsh but, as a college kid, I am pretty sure that I would have known what to do in this situation. Its not rocket science. And if I failed to do so, I don't think I could be too upset with the punishment I receive.
Stonum seems like more of a f--k up to me than a bad guy, and I have an admitted soft spot for f--k ups.
There are meetings in NOLA. Can he do community service in lieu of fines? He should be able to work it off at the minimum wage rate. They didn't put him in jail for driving without a license. They put him in jail for the DUI. He probably got 90 days, but if he succesfully completes probation he doesn't have to serve it. Thats a big reward but they make you earn it. Lots of hoops to jump through and at the time it feels like they want you to fail. At the end though, you don't want to screw up again.
Sorry, I'm not buying any of the excuses here.
He had a requirement to attend those meetings. The bowl game is NOT a legitimate reason. Guess what, he's been redshirted this year. It means he wasn't playing in the bowl game. Which means he didn't need to be there. Sure, I'm sure it would be fun to play with friends and stuff and have a good time, but when you screw up and have to attend meetings as a result - that is your first priority, not a stupid bowl game you aren't playing in.
As for the money, get a part time job or something that is allowed within NCAA rules. Again, the responsibilities related to the legal issues >>>> football.
Which leads me back to Hoke and Michigan football. Either Stonum didn't communicate to the staff what he needed to do, lied to them that he was in compliance, or they didn't encourage him to be where he needed to be. I am hoping for the first two, because if it is the third option than Hoke = Dantonio.
This is a guy with multiple DUIs and probation violations on his record. He is not being punished for a first offense.
I mean, the guy has a suspended license, and he drives to a meeting with his probation officer? If you are the judge, you have to be seriously troubled by that. You cannot give him a slap on the wrist, when prior wrist-slaps have not worked.
Had you or I dropped him off at the probation office...he still would've had multiple DUIs.
He wasn't drunk driving...why are people making it out to be like this was the SAME offense? It wasn't.
If he'd gotten a ticket for jaywalking, do you say "HE HAD 2 DUIs! KICK HIM OFF THE TEAM?!"
No the problem is in the poor judgement in trying to drive to the probation office rather than find a ride, walk, run, take a bus, etc. It's not that he got another DUI.
Maybe it's just the wording, but it seems every 5th person is putting this offense on the same level as the other ones. It's not. And to say it is would almost be offensive to someone who's been affected by a drunk driver.
That is how the law has always worked. Even though this offense was not precisely the same as the other ones, you are always punished more harshly when you have past offenses on your record.
The thing is: when your license is suspended due to alcohol violations, and you continue driving anyway, you are not respecting the original punishment. And when you lie to your probation officer, knowing the serious consequences of doing so, does that suggest to you that he is ready to live a thoughtful, law-abiding life?
By the way, I do not favor kicking him off the team. I was simply responding the guy who suggested that 10 days in the slammer was too harsh. To the contrary, I think it is very reasonable and fair.
I don't get your point about how if someone else had dropped him off, he still would have had 2 DUIs.
Your jaywalking analogy doesn't hold up. If he had gotten a ticket for jaywalking, it wouldn't have been a violation of his probation. Part of his punishment for his previous DUIs was the loss of his driver's license. He knew that if he drove a car, he would get punished more severely.
I'm not saying that he got another DUI, and I honestly haven't seen anyone else who has claimed that, either. This is a big deal because he has shown disregard, on multiple occasion, for the restrictions that have been placed on him, as a result of his previous poor decisions.
But he is apparently living up to the most important part of his duty, namely not drinking (per a poster yesterday) and/or endangering anyone.
As to the point about him having two DUIs either way, it comes down to whether or not you see this as "Stonum got has DUIs plus other offenses" or whether you see this as "Stonum drove without a license." In other words, where does the story as you see it begin. I'm inclined toward the latter, as he seems to be doing the important things correctly.
I see what you're saying, but I disagree with you. I just don't think you can look at this incident in isolation. The whole reason this is even being discussed is because it happened within the context of his prior offenses. He got caught driving with a revoked license, and his license was revoked because he got caught for 2 DUIs. I agree that, in isolation, this wouldn't be a big deal; but the reality of it is that it didn't happen in isolation.
The reason he is in trouble over this is PAST OFFENSES. Part of his sentencing from the last DUI was revoked license, or an extension of the license that was ALREADY REVOKED. Don't forget lying to an officer of the court.
I think because this clearly shows that the previous punishments meant to teach him to be accountable haven't worked. When you're on your second strike, a decision like this is disastrous. If this was my kid, I would be beside myself. The kid has so much going for him and he pisses it away. He's a great athlete, seemingly smart, articulate, good-looking. He could have written his ticket in so many different ways. But he continues to make bad choices.
Someone on the board yesterday said that he or she sees Stonum around and that he doesn't drink anymore (this person could be lying, I realize). This incident doesn't mean that he hasn't done a lot of big things right.
I think everything you say is very valid. The question is how Michigan should respond. He can be punished without kicking him out of the program. (I'm repeating myself in this thread at this point. I know.)
...to a friend of mine who used to do the same thing after getting a DUI. That doesn't make it right, but I think this is a lot more common and a lot more understandable than people on the board are making it out to be. I don't think the judge was wildly harsh, don't get me wrong, but I still wouldn't kick him off of the team. Stonum has a lot on his plate. He messed up. Make him run a bunch of stairs - or, as I said yesterday, bike around town for practice.
I guess the issue boils to down to how many "second" chances does a player get? At some point, committing multiple crimes (whether serious like a DUI or more harmless like driving with a revoked license) has to matter. Judges revoke license in addition to other sentences for a reason: They don't want the person driving. If he doesn't get kicked off the team for this, when does he? One more offense? Two? And what kind of example does this set for the rest of the team?
I should clarify my position by saying that I don't think that Hoke has to kick him off of the team based only on what we know now. A lot depends to me on what Hoke told Stonum prior to this incident. Did he say, "You can't ever do this (drink and drive) again"? Or did he say, "You've got to keep your nose cleaner than clean"? In the former instance, I think you can still keep him. In the latter, you can't.
I don't have a great answer to your questions beyond what I just said because I don't know more (and maybe I wouldn't anyway). I do think, though, that we have to remember that Hoke can punish Stonum in a way that will be meaningful but that doesn't involve kicking him off of the team. I'm sure the players don't take running stairs until they puke for thirty straight days lightly, for example.
Whether you agree with it or not, I don't think the punishment was only taking into consideration his most recent mistake. The history of alcohol-related incidents and probationary incidents is what this punishment was based on.
The probationary incidents, though, are that he hasn't been to an AA meeting in two weeks (he was at the bowl), hasn't paid his fines (probably doesn't have any money), and drove to the meeting w/out a license. I wonder if he even had a lawyer. It doesn't seem like there was anyone there to tell his side of things.
...that might have played a role in the judge's decision:
Did he tell his probation officer that he was going to the bowl and it would get in the way of his required AA meeting? Did he make any effort to find a solution?
Has he explained his financial situation to his probation officer, if that's the reason for not paying the fines, and was the explanation reasonable?
There's a big difference between good-faith attempts to work out problems up front that turn out to be unresolvable, vs. after-the-fact explanations and excuses. The harsh sentence makes me think they're trying to get his attention. There might be a reason for that.
Maybe Pope is a hard-assed judge who happened to get up on the wrong side of the bed that day, or maybe he made a reasonable decision based on information and nuance we don't have.
but in Illinois it is a felony eligible offense and a mandatory seven days jail for even first offense. Seems actually low to me given his history. Would have expected 30-45 days.
Lying to your probation officer, and lying about the very thing which got you there in the first place, seems pretty serious to me. The whole point of the punishment is to help this guy learn to make the right decisions in situations like this, and obviously that didn't happen. Repeat offender. Sometimes the harshest punishment is the only one that works.
Does this make room for Demar Dorsey?
I'm starting to play flag football on Thursdays beginning next week. I have 4 years of playing eligibility left. Perhaps I could be of assistance?
He's got more important things to worry about other than football. Get it straight now, before you have a family that relies on you.
I don't remember any MSU player committing 2 DUIs, violating probation 2 times, serving 2 times in jail, and still remain on the team. I think a lot of people here now feel that rocks have been thrown in glass houses.
Sadly, I think Hoke is going to have to make the choice to move forward without Stonum. He's had too many chances already. Hopefully Darryl can get himself out of this cycle and get on with his life.
He's gotta go. "THIS IS MICHIGAN FERGODSAKES" means more than that we win a lot of football games. This is the kind of thing that separates us (and used to separate Notre Dame) from the unwashed masses.
I think at this stage of his career at Michigan, it would be wrong to let him go for this offense. But, I think a suspension would be fair. It's really frustrating that he's gotten himself into these situations. Whether he was being arrogant or careless, it just doesn't make any sense.
He's already been suspended for a year, not to mention his suspension when Rodriguez was here. How much good is another 2 or 4 or 6 games going to do?
If we decide to slap him with a 6 game suspension and he wants to leave, than so be it. But, I don't think it makes sense to kick off a 5th yr senior that we've invested a lot in for this probation violation. I understand that we need to punish him, and we should. Six games or so for a probation violation like this is understandably harsh. But, I also want the guy to succeed. If we feel that he's got a better shot at succeeding in life by keeping him in Ann Arbor rather than kicking him off the team, than I think we let the guy finish out his career. If this were another alcohol-related offense, than I would kick him off the team and see to it that he gets the help he needs.
He skipped a year of playing while still remaining with the team. He did not lose a single minute of playing time because he gets to play an extra year now if he stays.
I think that is why I like it here, I have plenty of company.
I really liked the redshirt punishment. I liked it because we kept Stonum within the structure of the team. We didn't just cut him lose and risk him spiralling down into some kind of cycle like Cissoko did. He had structure, he had people he could reach out to, and he clearly knew what he had to do. He had two carrots. If he completes his parole without incident it means no time in jail and it means he is back on the team.
Yet not only is he still driving, he's also lying to his parole officer, and skipping court ordered meetings. I'm not even going to touch the fine thing since his family could have legit fiscal hardships, but man I wish he'd sold his car to pay for the fines.
At this point he's definitely lost the right to play for Michigan football. If we want high character kids we're going to have to enforce the rules.
At the end of the day despite those two carrots he found multiple ways to get himself in trouble with the judge. His time is up.
We'll honor his scholarship for the Winter. So if he is really turning his life around he has the ability to graduate (he'll have 4 years) and pull a Russel Wilson. Or to try for the pros. We're not kicking him out in the cold, but at some point you have to draw the line. If he is serious he has options in front of him for a fresh start somewhere else and can still make the pros. If he wants to keep shooting himself in the foot, at some point you have to admit you can't stop him.
I agree that Hoke did the right thing with the redshirt (to keep him within the support framework, to help him, to keep him on the scout team, etc.), but let's stop calling it "punishment." We used to redshirt players all the time, and hopefully, when Hoke restocks the cupboards, we will redshirt most freshman. It was punishment to Stonum, we would be starting and would be closer to the NFL, but we need to avoid calling it punishment if it's what we ultimately ask most of our recruits to do.
A scholarship slot has opened up for Arnett it seems.
Hoke has to kick him off the team doesn't he? How many more chances goes this guy get?
Without knowing his timeline of offences or the actual wording of his probation order, this is my take. If he was driving without a licence, it's a relatively minor transgression in the big scheme of things. If part of his court ordered porbation was that he not drive, it's a different story because he's essentially violating a court order. Either way, good luck to this young man......he has problems and judgement issues but he falls short of being Charles Manson.
As for Arnett why do people keep thinking he even wanted to be here. After is release he was quick to choose MSU. He's a good player but doesn't want to be here......let it go.
BTW......don't get me wrong. If my own kid was given a ticket for driving without a licence, the ticket would be the least of their concerns. A minor discrection by statute would still draw the wrath of a parent!!!!
He didn't leave the house without his wallet or forget to renew his DL when it came up--he was driving without a license because his license had been revoked as punishment for a DUI,
Not driving wasn't part of his probation order--it was part of his sentence
Respectfully, your comment does not make any sense.
As part of his probation, he needed keep his nose clean. He did not have a license, because it was presumably suspended. It was suspended becuase he was arrested for driving under the influence. So, when he got busted for driving without a license (a consequence of his criminal conviction) he obviously violated the court's trust that he would carry out the remainder of his sentence without problems. He didn't do that. The court has stopped believing/trusting him. Therefore, the court decides to send another message in hopes that he finally "gets it".
Now, the football question is separate. I assume that he was not drinking, otherwise it would have been reported on. Likely, his indiscretion was driving himself to the courthouse/pbt/whatever it was on his own and without a license. That, in and of itself, should not be reason for dismissal from the team.
What may be reason for dismissal, however, is if Hoke said, look, you have got to complete probation without any difficulties and I trust you to do that. If so, he's gone.
On the other hand, I suspect what happened is that Hoke said, you can't drink. This is a problem. Stay out of trouble here out. Stonum was trying to complete his probation by showing up in the morning, but was dumb enough to do that driving himself. The issue will be what did he and Hoke agree on? Did Daryl breach that trust by driving without a license? Has he stayed clean and out of trouble except for the license?
Got a 20 year old son who is clueless about life? I was a resident advisor in a dorm at Michigan for 2 years and I can tell you that being an idiot is not that unusual amongst the young.
I'll trust Hoke to do what makes the most sense, and hope that he finds a way to help Stonum that is focused on him as a person and not as a football player.
People saying that this is a victimless crime and it shouldn't affect his status on the team are ignoring the fact that he was EXTREMELY lucky Hoke didn't boot him in the first place. This isn't sparty. If you want to practice for another year fine, but you don't deserve to be on the field. This is Michigan.
Can't see how Hoke can keep him on the team after this -- at the press conference announcing his hiring as coach, Hoke stressed accountablity and character. He's given Stonum every chance. The kid has continued to demonstrate poor judgment. Lying to the court/law enforcement is the real clincher for me -- I just can't see how you keep him on the team after that. The only thing that will get Stonum's attention at this point is taking away football. I hope he gets the help he needs and gets his life together.
Obviously from an on-the-field standpoint this sucks -- Stonum's return next fall was one of the things we all counted on to soften the blow of losing Junior Hemingway. Our mediocre WR recruiting the last couple of years is gonna come back to haunt us. Wish we had targeted some higher-upside WR prospects in this recruiting class.
He will not be eligible regardless missing that many classes. I just hope he can continue his education. I have made worse mistakes in life drinking when boating many times. The difference is I got away with it. I was young and foolish and I would bet the judge drank and drove when he was young, which doesn't make it right. Just saying he should keep getting help and if he doesn't stop the penaltys should increase. Tough situation! Getting behind a wheel of any vehicle is stupid, and our mind is clouded when we are drunk. The key is to plan ahead before you drink to eliminate the possibility of driving. I hope he learns that. Best advice is to not drink at all.
Curious, will he actually serve 10 days? If so, might that force him to miss the start of the semester (if it hasn't already started) and potentially be dropped from his classes? Would his status as an active student be in jeopardy? My apologies for not having read any articles that may answer these questions.
In my opinion Stonum has blown his last chance. It has nothing to do with how MSU (or Iowa or Florida or anyone else) handles their cases. He has not lived up to his legal obligations and his obligations to the University of Michigan. Let him finish up the school year on scholarship, and add him to the "firm handshake" list. He need not be kicked off the team, per se--he simply should not be given the opportunity of a 5th year. I certainly agree with anyone who may think this harsh, but how many opportunities must he be given before he pays the piper?
However, assuming today is his first day in jail, he will miss only one week of classes. Now, plenty of people recover from one missed week of classes. I am not saying it’s easy, but it can be done.
Because there are 8 months until football season, Hoke has the luxury of waiting a while to decide his status. I doubt that Hoke will kick him off the team immediately, because there is no pressing need to make that decision. If this had happened in August, Stonum would be done.
He has lost the privilege of putting on the winged helmet every Saturday in the fall. If the University allows him to stay enrolled then so be it, that is their decision. But as the CEO of the football team, Hoke needs to make an example of Stonum and dismiss him, no matter how good of a player he is.
Was it even a question when Mike Milano was kicked off the team?
You must spare me
I don't think he leaves Hoke with much of a choice in the matter. So much for not skipping a beat at WR next year.
Well, now this sucks. I've been throwing so many daggers at Dantonio the past few years that I have to be consistent. Much as I hate to say it, but if I were Hoke, I'd boot him for good. Maybe I'd try to keep him in school, just to ensure his life not turn into a total dumpster fire, but there'd be no more football for Stonum at Michigan.
if hoke wants to demon
strate his commitment to accountability, he'll tell stonum to clear out his locker. playing for michigan is a privilege, and he has abused this privilege several times over.
here's to hoping roundtree, gallon, dileo, and darboh step up big next year.
Where are all the apologists who spent the day yesterday explaining how it's no big deal and Stonum should just run a few extra stairs?
He's got to go. It's sad. But it's the way it has to be.
His football career can continue at a smaller college.
This isn't about his alcoholism. I think most of us agree that alcoholism is a problem best dealt with via treatment, therapy, etc. We've all know great people who've been trapped by alcoholism. But half of Stonum's problem are only tangentially related to his drinking problem. He twice violated probation. And now he has driven without a suspended license and lied to an officer of the court. He didn't do these things because of alcohol. He did them because he doesn't get it, or doesn't want to get. These things cannot be excused via "But I have a disease." He does have it. And he deserves help. But jeez.
We all know this wasn't the first time he drove on a suspended license. He had a bunch of other ways to get to the probation office (friends, bus, run, etc.). Whether or not Hoke wants to keep him on the practice squad is up to him. I would love to see the kid graduate but he should never see the Michigan Football field again.
1. NEVER drive without a valid driver's license. Take the bus, call a cab, find dependable friend, but don't drive without a valid license.
2. NEVER, ever, under any circumstances co-sign an auto loan. It's simply not worth it. Save up the cash and buy the car out right. You're just begging for financial and relationship problems and I'm shocked how many adult parents do this for their kids. Don't believe me that it's a bad idea? Watch every third episode of Judge Judy, you'll see what I mean.
I guess one way to look at it is what would you want the punishment to be for your kid if he/she found him or her self in this situation?
Very tough case with lots of shades of grey. We do not know the entire story. I think Hoke will do his best to make the right decision for his team and for Daryll Stonum.
Whatever happens I hope he learns from it.
If it was my kid after 2 DUIs and multiple probation violations? Easy answer there. Have fun in jail. I would explicitly ask his coach to remove him from the team and I would bring his ass home after serving his sentence to begin treatment to straighten his life out.
Some of you are forgetting the long string of events that got to this point. This one singular event is not a big deal. Its a compounded issue due to his history.
whatever coach Hoke decides ...I'd like to see him play, but I'm sure I'm in the minority ...
Soo many holier than thou Michigan fans..
Isn't this how society - not just Michigan football - works? Those who fail to follow the rules, whatever they may be, get ostracized by the rest, especially those who endanger the group as a whole (in this case, we need him as a receiver next year, and we need him to show self-discipline and character as a Michigan Man). It's just human nature.
It's more disappointment at the failure to use common sense.
It's not uncommon for people age 17 to 23 to be easily influenced and to demonstrate really poor judgement.
But at 18 we're all considered legal adults. We can vote people into positions of power, fight and die in a foreign wars, inherit stuff from dead people, etc.. But somehow we can't drink alcohol at 18, so there's that (mainly due to the judgement issue).
Public transport in the US comparatively sucks (trains, street cars, bus transport, taxis) are just not as good as in places like Europe, etc.
So Stonum can't get from point A to B. His driver's license is revoked and he's on special probation terms from prior violations. What's the guy supposed to do?
a.) Take a risk, drive the car to the appointment anyway
b.) Get ready an hour earlier and call a taxi
c.) Get ready an hour earlier, call a different friend or contact to give him a ride.
d.) Get ready an hour earlier, take a bus ride
e.) Stay at home and try to reschedule the appointment.
Selecting A. has a good probability of serious consequences.
Selecting just about ever other option above has consequences too, but none as severe as A.
Not doing A is common sense.
Get rid of him and bring in Arnett!
As much positive press has come from UM since Hoke arrived, keeping Stonum on the team is a step back from the momentum that has UM steamrolling toward a B1G Championship in 2012. Good luck to you Mr. Stonum. I hope you can get your life back together.
Floyd didn't have 2 DUIs and multiple violations of probation including driving under a suspended license, TWICE. Nice try though. Floyd straightened out and has been trouble free ever since. Stonum, not so much.
Clearly Floyd turned it around, Stonum did not.
probably free's up another scholarship Michigan roster.. not that we can get another guy because of the 28 limit. May be Hoke goes after Arnett a little bit?
IMO..the cop that waited for Stonum to come back out of His probation officers office is an asshole cop. Again thats my opinion but look the other way ..dang the kid was trying to do the right thing by checking in. He just possibly changed Stonums life for a little press in the newspaper.
He was called by Stonum's probation officer, who suspected that Stonum had lied to him and driven to the meeting, on a suspended license which was taken away due to Stonum's two previous vehicle/alcohol related arrests. It's not about the cop.
This is not a great advertisement for Michigan. I have trouble seeing a future for Stonum on the field, but getting a degree is still possible.
I totally support the judge's decision. But why put a student in jail now, thereby costing him the first 10 days of a school semester? He should have sentenced him to overlap with his spring vacation or somesuch.