Still confused about Herbstreit/Miles thing

Submitted by maineandblue on

I was hoping Three and Out would shed some light on this, but apparently not. I never understood how Herbstreit got his info that Michigan and Les Miles came to an agreement, and how/why neither he nor ESPN was ever held accountable in any way for reporting false info and pretty much sabatoging a coaching search in the process.

Although I was all about PB&J time when we hired RR, reluctantly accepted that he had to go for a number of reasons, and am quite content with our current staff, I'm still dying to know wtf happened. At that point I was extremely excited about the prospect of Miles as our new coach, and I remember mgoblog was going nuts celebrating our early Christmas present that Saturday morning. I don't want to give away too much from the book for those who haven't read it, but it was pretty clear that Miles could have been our coach if the process wasn't botched by Herbstreit/ESPN and Martin. At this point this is neither here nor there, but I really do think Miles would have gladly adapted his ethical standards at Michigan compared to what he can and does get away with at LSU, and I think he would have turned us into a powerhouse (sooner than our current trajectory, though not necessarily better in the long run).

I'm not really bitter at this point, and despite the last 3 years of pain, I feel awesome about our program and its future. Even though Herbstreit is a Buckeye, I find him to be relatvily objective and skilled at his job, with this one glaring exception. Does anyone have any clue what happened and why there was never even an apology or acknowledgment of such a major confabulation and screw up? My apologies if I'm missing info of which others have been aware.

Wolverine in The 614

November 14th, 2011 at 10:08 AM ^

Here's how it went down from an insider's perspective in Columbus.  Tenuta told a few people he is tight with, including both my impeccable source (childhood friend of Tenuta's) and Herbsteit (Tenuta's neighbor in CBus before bailing for Nashvegas) that Miles was taking the Michigan job and Tenuta was going to be his DC.  Instead of keeping it under his hat like he was told, Herbie had to scoop everyone and let the story out.  I don't think Herbie did it with any malice, he just wanted the scoop.  Don't we have some old posts about ex-jocks making lousy reporters...?  Who knows what would have happened with Miles at the helm.  No sense looking up a dead dog's ass...

 

hart20

November 13th, 2011 at 2:52 PM ^

coming to Michigan. I don't care if he adapted his ethical standards, I care that his ethical standards weren't good enough before. Bringing Les Miles in might have won games, but it would come at the cost of the Michigan name.

maineandblue

November 13th, 2011 at 3:31 PM ^

You may be right. In retrospect, I'm very glad we have Hoke and Mattison to represent our damn fine University. I think Miles would often put his foot in his mouth, but I don't think Michigan would have allowed him to get away with what he does now, and in fact I could see him responding well to the ethical standards/expectations at Michigan. In any case, I wasn't trying to turn this into a discussion of whether or not we'd be better off with/without him...my question is about what happened with the false Herbstreit info.

There wasn't even a tentative "maybe" or "rumor" label. Dude just announced it as fact.

coldnjl

November 13th, 2011 at 8:33 PM ^

Who said I wanted Les as our coach? I certainly didn't and don't. 

I was simply pointing out that your argument against a previous post clearly doesn't answer the meat of his response: that Miles is a great coach based on the fact he can win games in the hardest conference to do so. You point at an alleged weakness that you probably know nothing firsthand about as a reason why he shouldn't have been our coach. 

Next time you should probably read and comprehend an argument by someone before you make some lame ass attempt to discredit them.

Lionsfan

November 14th, 2011 at 12:03 PM ^

If we had Miles I don't think there would have been as much backstabbing. Miles probably would have won more games, and winning would have shut everybody up regardless of how badly they might try to sabotage the program. Plus Les would be a "Michigan Man" so you wouldn't have every press member attacking him over little PR slip ups

maineandblue

November 13th, 2011 at 3:05 PM ^

Miles was playing in the last game of the season that night. Because of the report he was forced to call a press conference to make a denial and promise his "damn fine team" that he would stick around. Looks like we could have still had him after the Bowl game (sorry to those who haven't read the book yet), but this outing of info that wasn't close to legitimate made talking to him much more difficult.

93Grad

November 13th, 2011 at 2:57 PM ^

was the source of the rumor to Herbie and that it was either wishfull thinking on Desmond's part because Desmond knew that the coaching committe set up by Martin had chosen Miles and only Miles.

maineandblue

November 13th, 2011 at 3:09 PM ^

Desmond would have known that Miles had a game to play that night, and if the report came out he would be forced to deny it. Also, the report stated that they came to an agreement, not just that there was interest.

The only way I could see Desmond slipping that info to Herbstreit would be if Desmond was trying to sabatoge the chances of Miles ending up at Michigan <insert Lloyd conspiracy theory>

ILL_Legel

November 13th, 2011 at 5:00 PM ^

This is more plausible than Desmond but who knows.  Not very many people knew what was going on but someone leaked to Herbstreit.  I don't think he just pulled it out of nowhere.

As the monkey in Lion King said "It's in the past."

maineandblue

November 13th, 2011 at 5:22 PM ^

"Could have known" what? At that point there was nothing to know. Apparently Miles' agent did try to get in touch with Michigan, but they hadn't even talked yet. The report stated that they had already reached an agreement.

Cope

November 13th, 2011 at 6:51 PM ^

What doesn't fit with that is, can you see lloyd talking to the media, opening up about a deal to try to subvert it? If Lloyd is one thing, he's not a media guy. It just doesn't add up that he would talk to the media, even to get what he wants.

BRCE

November 13th, 2011 at 7:12 PM ^

They're called moles.

Don't kid yourself and think that Lloyd doesn't know how to deal with the media just because he doesn't like them. He is very adept at playing a game of shadows. Not think he's not is incredibly naive.

I personally believe LSU or Miles and his agent were behind the leak, but it still makes plenty of sense that he would have a call placed to sabotage this.

Cope

November 13th, 2011 at 8:12 PM ^

What would make no sense is Miles leaking it why would he leak something that would force him to refuse a job he's said he would never say no to? Is it possible someone in MSC's office leaked it? Makes sense that someone would know and he/she could anonymously tell someone. Few are good at keeping secrets. I don't know the darker side of Lloyd, but you're right that I don't see him as so conniving, but who knows...

jmblue

November 13th, 2011 at 8:53 PM ^

1.  If he wanted to stay at LSU, this would be a way to gain leverage in negotiations for an extension.

2.  If he wanted to go to Michigan, this could drum up support from the Michigan fanbase, as a way of quieting the Carr faction.

If they leaked it, they probably didn't want it to come out until after the game, but Herbstreit may have gotten overeager and spilled the beans at an awkward time (made worse by Martin's sailing trip), which boxed Miles in a corner.

Cope

November 13th, 2011 at 9:11 PM ^

Good reasons. But what's the advantage to even leaking to Herbie or others the day before the big game?Isn't there just as much to gain in politicking or negotiating waiting the day after (and less to risk- telling those paid to tell stories to sit on a huge story). This is a fascinating scenario and I really want to know now. I just don't see how MSC, Martin, or Miles have anything to gain by pre-empting the bowl. I revert to loose-tongued underling theory.

befuggled

November 13th, 2011 at 3:04 PM ^

Presumably they were hoping to prevent him from coming to Michigan. We've all heard the rumors that Miles was not terribly popular with certain groups of people at Michigan, some of whom may have been privy to the coaching search.

Another possibility is that someone in Miles' camp (like his agent) wanted to use that to generate a better deal from LSU. He did sign an extension with LSU in December 2007.

I have no inside information, so take all that with at least on grain of salt and preferably two.

SWFlaBlue

November 13th, 2011 at 3:06 PM ^

We want to open this up again. Better to just move forward. The only people who have the facts are Herbstriet and his source. Someone, or perhaps many, didn't want Miles to be Michigan's coach. They used Herbstreit and ESPN to make sure of it. Let's move along. We've got the right man on the sidelines.

w2j2

November 13th, 2011 at 3:08 PM ^

He did not put it in the book. 

Certainly Dave Brandon wanted nothing to do with Les Miles.

Michigan is SO much better with Hoke, Mattison & Borges! 

Brandon has his own man, and will give him & his staff all the money and support they need to succeed.  Success for Hoke means success for Brandon.

Total support was not the case with Richrod, and would likley not  be the case with Miles.

coldnjl

November 13th, 2011 at 5:41 PM ^

I agree with everything you said, except about Miles not getting support. Miles wouldn't have scrapped the offense, providing more wins that would keep the side who didn't support Miles at bay. I also SPECULATE that if Miles (who isn't viewed as an outsider by the base) came, their wouldn't have been anything remotely close to the divide that sprang up during RR tenure.

coldnjl

November 13th, 2011 at 8:41 PM ^

I am speculating when I said that. I am not a fan of Miles in anyway...But...Who is basically everyone? The fan base wanted him....The coaching committee wanted him...MSC was fine with him...and ex players wanted him. The only people who didn't were Lloyd and close confidents. Do you think a power personality like Miles wouldn't have done something about that...and no one knows why he doesn't like him for sure...Bacon even acknowledges that it isn't known for sure (he speculates coaching competition when both were on the staff and recruiting head to head match ups as the most likely culprits)

 

mgowill

November 13th, 2011 at 3:10 PM ^

I am going to read that chapter again. My initial impression was that there wasn't a plan. It kind of fell on the "this is Michigan" attitude. Not only that a coach would fall in our lap, but whoever fell would be blessed by the football gods for doing so.

Herbstreit apologized, but claimed his source was credible. You could tell he wasn't really sorry. I don't blame him for the botch. I blame our arrogance and incompetence during the search. If we had our shit together, it wouldn't have been an issue.

M-Dog

November 13th, 2011 at 4:55 PM ^

Herbstreit was pretty specific.  He said Miles was coming and bringing Tenuta with him as DC.  Clearly he was not just making shit up.  Someone with credibility told him this.

Nonetheless, it was crappy to report this on Game Day the morning before the SEC Championship game that LSU was playing against Tennesee.  It could have waited until after.  It certainly boxed Miles in . . . to the point where he had to publically deny it.  It may have never been true, but if it was, it got blown out of the water.

LSAClassOf2000

November 13th, 2011 at 3:16 PM ^

The part of the 2007 search that I found interesting, among the items that pertain to Les Miles, is that he made the statement that he "would never say 'no'  to Michigan", making  it seem at the time like he almost wanted to come back here. Of course, this was in the conference call, the substance of which was almost immediately leaked to the press.

If there was a chance at any point, Bill Martin (whom I've met before because of the downtown underground garage going in at Fifth and William approximately) went a long way to aid in blowing it to smithereens, as did the camp that simply didn't want Miles. I will say, however, that at best I was mild to the prospect  - he would have won, I think, but at a cost to our reputation, I think. His coming here would have probably created the same sort of schism that RR did, which wouldn't be helpful, of course. 

I am glad we have the staff that we do now. 

maizenbluenc

November 13th, 2011 at 3:18 PM ^

that someone who was a credible source either inside the program, or very close to the program leaked false information to Herbstreit. Who ever it was, was from the anti Les Miles contingent, and leaked to Herbie over Desmond so as not to embarrass Desmond. They also timed it while Martin was out of pocket, and such that Miles would have to say something. Who ever it was also had plausible deniability.

This was a political move to embarrass Les into declaring, and Herbstreit was just a Buckeye fall guy.

I'd like to know if Bacon has anythign on this, but he hasn't published it because of journalistic integrity (i.e., not enought confirmation).

maineandblue

November 13th, 2011 at 3:38 PM ^

This is the only hypothesis that makes any sense to me. Maybe it was even for the best (though arguing that wasn't the point of this post), but looking at it as Herbie being used for our interests (or at least one Michigan faction) helps me come to terms with it. I wish we could have asked Bacon about that as one of our mgoblog questions. Even if he knew what happened I doubt he would have directly named anyone, but if this was the case might have hinted at it...

EGD

November 13th, 2011 at 3:21 PM ^

As related in Bacon's book, there was evidently a phone call between Martin & Coleman on one end, and Miles and his agent on the other.  It is unclear who else (if anyone) was in on the call.  This call took place right before LSU was getting ready to play in a BCS title game.  Miles supposedly told Martin & Coleman that he wanted to focus on the BCS game, but that afterward he would take the Michigan job if offered and work out the details at that time.  Obviously Miles wanted this kept quiet, but later that day Herbstreit reports Miles to UM.

It seems to me there are only two possibilities here.  One is that Martin & Coleman told people at UM, and somebody leaked it from there.  This seems highly plausible because (a) Michigan had a search committee set up and members of that committee would presumably have been informed, (b) MIles was a jackass about these sorts of things, and (c) there are plenty of motives among various factions of the Michigan contingent for leaking the info.

The only other possibility I can see would be that someone in Miles' camp leaked it--whether for bargaining leverage against LSU, to give Miles an out, or for some other reason.  This also seems possible but much less likely to me.  It appeared that the phone call had left Miles in the optimal bargaining position vis-a-vis both LSU and UM, so what incentive would he have had to leak the call?

We'll probably never know, but I think someone at Michigan leaked it to Herbstreit.

m1jjb00

November 13th, 2011 at 3:22 PM ^

Explain to me why Joe Schad reported Miles was coming this time.  It's ESPN reporting a rumor.  Someone telling a buddy, "Miles is coming, book it.", which is nothing more than a prediction becomes in the game of telephone tag, a fact.

scooterf

November 13th, 2011 at 5:06 PM ^

Herbstreit is pretty credible, and he had pretty specific information with his report. Someone spread some misinformation somewhere along the way. Who and why is what is unclear, but writing "it's just ESPN reporting a rumor" is a bit naive IMO.