WTF is wrong with some people?
WTF is wrong with some people?
So one person did all of the attacking?
According to the article, a sophmore who had been a victim of bullying.
I've never understood bullying. I can't understand why kids don't just keep their cruel comments/actions to themselves. Obviously, the bullied shouldn't respond like this, but all around it's just a stupid circle.
Being mean to others to give oneself enjoyment and/or satisfaction?
That happens a lot on here, and this is one of the well-managed boards.
It appears to be a part of human nature, though that doesn't make it right. I'm sure we can all remember times in our younger days where a group was digging on someone and we gained some thrill from joining in. For some, the thrill is in not being the object of derision; for others, perhaps, the being a part of a crowd. And people do often enjoy watching others suffer.
Our culture today has some real issues. This is not the time or place to deal with them. But they are there.
I've seen it happen, and I know it exists. I've just never understood it. It doesn't register in my brain why people would be mean to others for essentially no reason. But oh well.
my son is being bullied a bit in his fifth grade class by some kids who play little league sports. I was told that the gym teacher saw the bullying, but ignored it. I was on my way up there to get with him, but I was strongly advised to not be so ghetto...
I knew my son would be a target because he's smart as a whip, doesn't care much about clothing brands (he wants to wear bowties to school with off-brand slip-ons), and he doesn't "act black." of course, the black kids sought him out and pick with him every couple of days to the point where he fakes sick or asks to stay home. I wish I could return to my childhood and be a student at his school, just so I could punch one of those kids' faces off...
Bullies are cowards who present an aggressive front to cover up a gooey, weak interior. I suffered from bullying well into high school. I was told repeatedly by authority figures that it would stop if I just ignored the bullies and/or "used my words."
That doesn't work, because that kind of passive, pathetic response just reinforces the power trip the bully craves. You stop a bully by hitting them in the mouth.
Of course, that response isn't always great, either, as this case indicates. The bullied will always eventually snap, and that's why they can't be left to fend for themselves in such an environment.
One contributing factor is that most kids picture themselves as victims and not aggressors. Some of the most vicious bullies I've encountered have been themselves victims of some pretty dreadful treatment. I do think that parents need to take the lead in reigning in the actions of their own children, something that happens far too seldom, but it's not like we're looking at a black-and-white issue.
It's baloney the way schools handle things these days. And this is someone that was in high school only two years ago.
Back in the day you could meet someone that pissed you off in the field behind the school, take care of business, and that was the end of it. Or if you got in a fight during school you maybe got a detention and that was it.
Now the cops have to be called, people taken to court, etc. Plus the whole ''zero tolerence'' BS that means if you were punched in the face and fought back you get in the same amount of trouble.
"Back in the day...and that was the end of it." Oh, if that were only true.
Some of us may remember the TV show the Little Rascals. Much of the story lines were about Butch being a bully.
I would guess there have been bullys forever. Unfortunately, a lot of times the bullys are bigger and stronger than those they pick on.
Now with social media a lot of bullying can be done anonymously. Sad.
When I was six, the neighbor kid bullied me. My dad, after witnessing it a few times gave me the green light to fight back. He made it clear violence should be a last resort. Next time the kid bullied me in my backyard I took one swing and broke his nose. He laid off after that and we were actually decent friends until I moved.
but since their cowards today they fight back with groups or weapons. Not too long ago you could meet behind the buses and settle your differences. Today you'd be jumped by 5 buddies and two would have weapons. There all pansies but dangerous pansies and you never know what your dealing with
Sorry but I have to gramatically bully you. You incorrectly used there and their.
My apologies, friend, but I have to one-up your grammatical bullying to note his misuse of "they're" and the missing comma in your first sentence, which should go directly behind your single-word apology to him.
left him in custody of the local authorities. This kid will learn that crime doesn't pay.
The hard way.
Not the time, Bruce.
This got a real laugh out of me.
I don't understand how you stab 20 people before they either run away, tackle you, or take your knife.
It sounds like he was just walking in the halls and stabbing people randomly and without anyone seeing. He likely just kept walking after each stab.
the dude was tackled by a principal. I imagine it might've been too chaotic for word to spread, especially seeing as it occurred in a period between classes. It's one thing to say "they should've tackled him" and another to be in the heat of the moment and have the courage (or stupidity, or both) to charge at a dude weilding a knife.
I read somewhere earlier today that not all the injuries were due to stabbing. I'm sure in a situation like this, there are bound to be a few people injured due to getting trampled and pushed by others frantically trying to get out of harm's way.
So we can assume that you have been attacked with a knife (and in a video game doesnt count), which is the reason you can understand how one would react? In addition, seeing it acted out on TV or in a movie doesnt count either.
I guess all the victims are just wimps. Its too bad you werent there to save the day.
Don't be a dick. I'm not calling anyone a wimp, I was simply curious as to how a single person can stab so many people before being apprehended or having everyone run away. Such a high victim count for a stabbing is very unusual.
CNN might have at least part of the answer regarding the high number of victims here - LINK
One of the students who was an eyewitness said the following:
"He was very quiet. He just was kind of doing it," Meixner answered. "And he had this, like, look on his face that he was just crazy and he was just running around just stabbing whoever was in his way."
Also in the story, two of the victims went straight to surgery upon arrival at the hospital with wounds to the lower abdomen. It also mentions two people currently in intensive care as well, and six who have already been treated and released.
Very sad, and thoughts go out to all the families as well as the Franklin Regional School District's staff and community.
Including the butter and plastic ones!
They already are. Do you know what happens to kids who bring a knife to school?
For effect so to speak.
Of course you are. So am I, sort of. But this doesn't seem to be the sort of event that makes for a productive conversation of these issues, and this is probably (ok, definitely) not the venue for it either.
I'm probably not the best sample you want to draw from... but at my high school, everyone carried knives. I was famous for carrying three. At the end of the year the school awarded me one for hard work. Dead serious.
We also had a shotgun shed and a trap range. Like I said, probably not the best sample, but... eh.
And where was this school?
Also a boarding school, I might mention.
So many people I've talked to have said ''When I was in high school we all carried pocket knives and kept our rifle in our truck during school.''
We've created a culture where we tell everyone to be afraid all the time when that shouldn't be the case.
Stuff like this just blows my mind:
If only every student and teacher at the school we're armed with an AR-15 and grenade launcher, this sort of thing would never happen!
Well if participating faculty or newly hired staff were armed I can say with almost complete certainty that it would not have happened with such severity.
So now instead of stabbings, you have at least one teenage fatality, probably more from stray gunfire. So much better.
Oh boy, here we go.
In actuality there is a good chance that a prepared, armed person could have limited the damage of the offending person. An armed police officer, for example, or a teacher who had taken a training course. The result probably wouldn't have been as bad.
That's not the issue; the issue is whether or not a policy that would place that armed person in that particular situation would be a net plus if applied to all schools. That is very much an uncertain issue. I have some opinions about these issues, and as someone who does some part-time work driving a school bus I actually am closer to some of the issues than others (I picked up a load of kids from a bus that was cleared due to a gun threat a couple of months ago, for example).
But there is no way to have this discussion without it flagrantly violating the policies of the board. Not to mention good taste and intellectual honesty. So why don't we just leave it there?
Why would a gun have helped at all? The kid was stopped when the AP TACKLED him. Would the AP have tackled him better if he had had a gun? Now we don't have the details yet, but you're likely talking about a crowded hallway filled with kids. If that is the case,there is no way anyone is going to be able to discharge a gun in that situation and only hit the intended target. Even possessing a gun, using physical force to overwhelm the kid was probably going to be the right call.
A firearm does not need to be discharged to be effective; an armed individual threatening such a person would be much more effective than unarmed individuals attempting to stop them.
Kinda like how army bases are so safe?
Or how in the chaos of the Giffords shooting, a concealed carrier is on the record as saying if he had pulled the trigger at who he though the shooter was, he would have ended up killing someone innocent?
Ya maybe here where this guy had a knife, you have a point. Not sure how much a difference it would have made in other shootings.
If you're referring to Fort Hood, well, soldiers on base have been banned from being armed while not on actual military exercises for 20 years. So I don't think that really applies.
I don't know what the case is at every military base, so maybe some of the service members on the board can speak to their experiences, but my brother is stationed at Fort Sill, OK, and nobody is allowed to have a weapon on base unless they're on a training exercise.
I'm a student and Wayne State, and a member of the student veterans organization and I can say with assurance that is the case. Only those at training, and those that are MP's/MOA's are able to carry on post/base.
Then no one would ever do anything wrong ever.
Nonsense has got to stop
Does not have any regard for human life.
Careful with that edge, you might cut someone
This is a sad reflection of our society.
Many people just want attention/affirmation. They do some pretty weird things to get it. This, of course, is ultra-destructive and harmful; it is also depressingly common. Obviously, this kid will suddenly get all kinds of attention, and knew it.
A month ago I went to the local hospital to see if a 16-year-old cousin of a person in our church was still there following a suicide attempt. She wasn't, but while I was there I ran into that person in the church--the 14-year-old sister of the first cousin had seen the attention her sister received and tried the same thing two days later. They both wound up ok, but that was the point anyway.
Agree Stephen...In some sick twisted way they try hard to be the center of attention and then turn out to be the center of tragedy.
As someone who works with adolescents, the use of attempted suicide for attention/reaching out/whatever you want to call it is a very real issue and a very scary issue.
It tragic that many kids feel that taking their life is the best option
It is and I certainly don't want to discount actual "successful" suicides. I was talking suicide attempts that are more of a call for help. My limited experience is that these attempts are carried out in a manner not so much to try to commit suicide, but to start a suicidal act.
I know this is making little sense - example: a young girl taking pills and immediately telling a friend of her actions.
I don't know how different these issues are, but the cry-for-help attempts, to me, are especially frustrating and scary. I have been lucky not to be very close to a realized suicide attempt, though, and maybe that's why I have a big difference in my mind.
I don't know what I'm arguing, just spitting out thoughts about a shitty thing.
yeah its sick. even just 1-2 generations ago, the truly sick or troubled would just kill themselves or simply fade away without harming anyone else in most cases (if they didnt pull it together and live the best life they could no matter how shitty). ask a WWII vet from the greatest generation (while theyre still around) what they think of todays culture and the general attitude and behavior of last few generations of youth....they will reply theyre disgusted and ashamed and sometimes befuddled by random chaos. it mightve really started with manson and those freaks and just kept mutating as the next insane episode in line receives more coverage/talk...psychotic or disenfranchised or bullied or depressed people now turn into 100% terrorists. instead of either soldering on or just killing themselves they decide to go out with a bang "so everyone knows"....its pathetic and im embarrassed to be 30 yrs old in generational bracket with so many weak americans who turn to terrorism when life shits on them
You're completely wrong, and so are the folks from the Greatest Generation who think that.
The only difference is the media. The things happening today STILL HAPPENED, just with far less media coverage because it didn't exist.
so many weak americans who turn to terrorism when life shits on them
How many, exactly? Get over yourself.
So you are saying that school shootings/killings/attacks were as common 40-50 years ago as they are today? Honest question, not trying to start an argument. I understand that cable TV, the Internet, etc. have made the news media readily available to everyone, but it seems that you cant go a month anymore without having a different school in the news headlines (or mall shooting, cinema shooting, etc.). I'm only 27, so I don't know, but I have a hard time believing that this kind of behavior was as common 50 years ago as it is today.
And it's becoming more and more obvious that our parents and grandparents are both massively misinformed about statistics and frequency of events and even just the nature of the times in which they lived AND they romanticize those times like crazy.
Yes, school incidents were just as common 40-50 years ago per capita. Mass shootings perhaps weren't as common for a number of reasons, but Grandpa Cletus is wrong in almost every way when he says the '50s were the "good old days."
It was just as common in the past as it is now.
Also when people reminice about the 50s I don't blame them at all. They still had bad people and killers, but nobody was worried about it. You just didn't have the paranoia we have today about everything.
I'm bringing it up mostly because it occurred in Bath Township near Lansing (link).
and who was that one guy who committed suicide and didn't take his insanity out on other people named? You know, the ones who sent the "greatest" generation to war in the first place?
Today is a dark and dreadful day. First Lacey, then the Ultimate Warrior, and now this. I'm going to pray extra hard and give my kids extra hugs and kisses tonight.
Change the but to an and then I'm with you.
I wonder what medications this kid was on? Seems to be a theme with school shootings. My nephews teacher suggested he be put on meds because he's struggling with reading. Easy fix. Drug the little bastards.
This is an insane story, especially given the fact that stabbings are obviously much more personal and tend to have a much more pronounced psychological component to them.
I'll take this opportunity to remind everyone that crime has ever been lower in the world or in the US. The rates of murder and violent crime dropped off a cliff the last few decades and are still falling. Don't mistake increased coverage of a smaller number of atrocities for an increase in atrocities.
The rate of disease, hunger, infant mortality, and a host of other problems is also continuing to plummet after having done so for decades. The expansion of civil rights to more and more people also continues unabated.
I don't mean to diminish the legitimate problems that remain, but it seems important to correct the prevalent notion that society is going to hell, when actually, it's never been better.
Rational people understand that. It's the morons that try and change everyones opinions using emotion and not facts these days that are annoying.
But the rate of mass public killings like school shootings and mall shootings has in fact increased, it's not just the coverage.
Just curious, but what are your sources for the crime rate stats?
I'm mostly relying on Steven Pinker's Better Angels of our Nature, which I consider one of the finest books ever written. It's been argued in many places though; it's not a controversial point of view in the academic community.
I'll have to check that out. Also did a quick search of the interwebs and found this:
Not sure where they get their data from, but it does look like a pretty steady drop since the mid-90's or so.
Just a point on having an armed guard in a school.
Take Huron for example. Huron is a large, two-story school that has an armed guard (or used to, I think he was cut for budgetary reasons).
If someone pulls a gun in the second floor while the security guard is on the first, there's simply nothing that the security guard is going to be able to do to prevent loss of life if that's the offender's goal.
People seem to overlook this logistical fact.
Sure, AA's high schools are huge and not totally representative, but the idea is the same. If you have a security guard it doesn't at all mean that crazy people will not do crazy things.
then hire more guards...
If the relatively affluent neighborhoods of Ann Arbor cannot afford 3 security guards in their 3 high schools, how are more public schools going to hire more guards?
That totally misses the point.
I would like to see some statistics on the size of the schools that these events happen in, though. Excepting Sandy Hook, these tragedies seem to occur at large high schools. I know part of the fight against this is creating welcoming, accepting environments so that young adults don't see this as a necessary route of action. That might be something that is simply harder to do in a large school.
Ann Arbor is affluent, but the school district finances are a steaming, hot mess. There are lots of "normal" things they can't afford. Proper bussing and busses, just for starters. I suspect a lot of A2's budget issues relative to the wealth of the community are kind of unique.
Well, this can quickly get into politics, so I wanna be careful.
I would say that Ann Arbor's school budgetary problems are representative of the state of Michigan right now. Many schools have long since cut bussing and transportation. Busses are no longer an assumed service in public education in Michigan, unfortunately.
That's fair. I think we can safely agree, without politics, that Michigan is dealing with some serious economic headwinds.
It might not stop everything, but it could theoretically limit the damage.
Remember that many of these awful events actually take a long time to unfold. It is rarely a two-minutes-and-its-over situation. I believe the shooter at VT was active and mobile in the building for nearly an hour, if I remember my facts correctly. I think the Columbine issue was similar.
Situations vary. We are fortunate that we have not had an Anders Brevik situation here, where an egotistical sicko (who will have decades of life after his release from prison!) had free reign for as long as he wanted to murder people. An armed guard could, theoretically, be in position to intervene in any situation in less than five minutes, even at a sprawling place like Pioneer. That wouldn't save everyone, but it could well limit the tragedy.
There are also arguments to be made that having armed guards present are a deterrent; it certainly seems like a lot of these shootings happen at places where the victims are known to be defenseless.
For those of you familiar with Spilly's cullinary escapades on SBNation, he mentioned on twitter this morning that this was the high school he went to. Thoughts and prayers to all involved.
Have you noticed a lot of buildings putting up "no gun" signs since they started conceal/carry in Chicago? My building sent out an email the other day saying our building is officially gun free. I don't own a gun, so it doesn't really matter to me either way, but I was just curious.
Ridiculous in my opinion.