Spurrier and Petrino defend oversigning - WSJ article
Interesting read from the WSJ:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487044446045761729541873573…
Notable quote from Spurrier:
He said the Big Ten, which has curbed oversigning for decades, is making a mistake by doing so. "I think that really hurts them a lot," Spurrier said. "They end up giving scholarships to a lot of walk-ons."
Bobby Petrino is the scum of the Earth and is the only coach i detest more than Mark Dantonio.
Petrino sucks, Nick Saban sucks, but no one tops Steve Spurrier in my opinion. Seeing him on the sideline in that stupid visor turns my stomach. Not to mention his ridiculous facial expressions and his cry-baby demeanor. His quote in that article is icing on the cake:
Spurrier said he selected those two players because they had the furthest to go to qualify academically. Both players could still be in South Carolina's class next year. "What we probably could've done earlier in the recruiting is tell them that this could happen," he said. "But then again, we didn't know it was going to come up. It's a ticklish situation."
Hey, Spurrier, its not a "ticklish" situation. Don't recruit kids that have a far way to go to qualify. If you know they're not going to qualify, or are at least reasonably confident that is the case, don't f-ing sign them! You're messing with the futures of 18-year-old kids and its just not right.
Petrino quit on the Falcons and let them know by leaving an f-ing note in the locker room. Couldn't even be a man and do it face to face. Petrino is scum and a pussy, so I think he needs to be ahead of Spurrier.
Very good point well taken. I always enjoy a good debate about whether one person is a bigger d-bag or the other so I'll keep this going:
True, Petrino quit on the Falcons in the worst of bad departures. However, those were professionals who get paid to get over things like that. On the other hand, seeing a college coach/teacher/mentor play loose with a kids collegiate future (not to mention their athletic future) is scary. I feel much worse for those kids than for people in the Falcons organization so my assessment that Spurrier is worse is still standing . . .
I don't even know how to respond to that quote. The fact that he says such a thing so easily, just amazes me. Why the hell, as a parent, or mentor, or anyone who cares, would you let a kid you care about anywhere near someone like that? Sometimes, it truely amazes me.
Because the 'Ol Ball Coach is going to get your boy to the NFL.....
Some coaches sell the future (Come to School X and you'll be coached up for the next level) rather the present (come to School Y and you'll work hard, redshirt, gain wait, learn the program and hopefully progress for the next four years... while studying for a degree).
I don't see Spurrier, Petrino, or most other SEC coaches saying the latter.
Basically, as a recruiter you can sell "the dream" or the reality - which one do you think most 17 year old kids want to think about. And unfortunately, there are too many parents that buy into "my baby is a superstar so fast track him to the money." A good manipulator can take advantage of selling the dream and as long as they don't care about each kid's realistic limitations they can dump those that don't pan out.
Go Gamecocks.
I don't think any recruiter sells patience and waiting your turn to anyone. Sorry.
Considering the number of recruits in UM's incoming class that have stated they expect to be redshirted - I disagree
Also, the fact that every UM lineman (but for Justin Boren) since the 1990s has been redshirted - these recruits know coming to UM means at least one year of patience.
Almost every lineman everywhere redshirts, the kids have to expect that, but coaches don't sell a chance of starting as a Senior to kids. They sell competition, wins, TV, the NFL, playing time, challenging academics, easy academics, facilities, coaches, tradition, the quality of the co-eds, weather and anything else they can think of that might get an 18 year-old excited about the program.
I don't think waiting your turn gets anyone excited.
To kids that can see through all of the BS that they're fed, I think a coach who is honest and tells you that you won't see the field for 2 years might be refreshing. Not exciting, but you know that they aren't lying to you at least.
Didn't Chad Henne say the reason he came to play for Michigan was that Carr told him he wouldn't start right away? Ironically, he of course did, but only due to injuries
The vast majority of linemen everywhere redshirt. That does not mean that you can't sell them on the future and say something like "Hey, remember Jake Long? Yeah, he went here." Redshirts and talking about the NFL are not mutually exclusive.
Tell that to Jim Grobe.
He mean we are awarding scholarships to walk ons...which is better than taking scholarships from scholarship players...Douche
Damn Big Ten's morals, ethics, and general care for the integrity of the sport are hurting their competitiveness.
/s
Well apparently those are quaint notions these days....Just look at the effort to make sure that the Tatoo 5 could play in the Sugar Bowl.
If you have any idea what goes on in the SEC to win you would understand that that is almost nothing.
BTW, if you want to make snarky comebacks they carry more water if you spell words like tattoo right.
Dammit, I'm supposed to be the one making snarky comments about spelling.
And I would tend to agree with you about the SEC. I think about half of the NCAA rules deal with stuff that happened in the SEC. I mean just look at the Cam Newton flap.
Letting them play in the Sugar Bowl (and I agree they shouldn't have been allowed to) didn't harm those student-athletes. Oversigning, which is done in 10/12 SEC schools I believe, really does.
I think the kick to the groin from that whole incident was the guy's use of the word integrity.
It's absolutely incredible to me, that the NCAA allows this to happen. Why they wouldn't institute a hard-and-fast rule re:scholarship allotments is beyond me. This is totally unfathomable. I guess this is a newsflash: The NCAA is a farce.
Welcome to the club.
Don't be so tough on the NCAA, they have lots of important things to do like handing out probation for major stretching violations. /s
Michigan is on 3 years probation for stretching while Spurrier is proudly quoted in the WSJ that deliberately misleading some kids into believing that they have a scholarship in his program ethically tenable.
/kicks self in face
There are some gems in there. What a bunch of slimy motherfuckers.
"Spurrier said oversigning is "helpful" because so many of the players in the state come from underprivileged backgrounds and may not qualify academically. He said the Big Ten, which has curbed oversigning for decades, is making a mistake by doing so. "I think that really hurts them a lot," Spurrier said. "They end up giving scholarships to a lot of walk-ons.""
Yeah, it is a shame to give kids like Kovacs a scholarship. SEC douchebag. If this mentality is what it takes to play in the SEC, I think I will be happy to remain a B1G fan boy.
I love how he justifies it by saying they provide an opportunity to kids from underprivilaged backgrounds that they wouldn't normally get. If he cares that deeply about the problems these kids face he'd be working to improve the schools and communities that they come from, not screwing over players they've already recruited to give them a football jersey. what a self-righteous asshat.
Spurrier is basically saying it is better as a coach to be able to crush a young kid's dream (yanking a scholarship) than to make a kid's dream come true (giveing a scholarship to a hard-working walk-on).
So, he's the CEO of a major corporation - not a leader of young men.
The SEC has obviously decided that college football is a corporation. Shocked.
... I've said it once, and I'll say it again. This practice so reaks of southern aristocracy and racism that it is infuriating.
If I ever saw Spurrier in a dark ally, I would kick him in the face, and ask him, "How's that for a 'ticklish situation'".
Hatred of that man just went up another notch.
You avatar fits your reply.
I'd really appreciate a reporter who asked something along the lines of, "If everyone qualifies, whose scholarship do you plan on rescinding?"
It's sad to see each kid have an it can't happen to me attitude.
thats the bigger problem. All these journalists focus on the sheer number of high school players signed and possibly getting a greyshirt, rather than the mass exodus (transfer, "violation of team rules", medical hardship, etc.) when the kids that qualify actually need the scholarship. Any coach can talk their way around being upfront with kids that they might have to greyshirt, but having to explain a dozen transfers or medical redshirts, etc, thats not as easy.
I don't get it. Is it a joke?
What we probably could've done earlier in the recruiting is tell them that this could happen," he said. "But then again, we didn't know it was going to come up. It's a ticklish situation."
If by "ticklish" you mean that a player may decide not to commit to your school if you tell hiim the truth (i.e. that he may not have a scholarship), then you're absolutely right, Steve, it's ticklish. That's not being an @sshole, just prudent, right? The way the ol' ball coach sees it, lying to a recruit (sorry, I meant not informing him in a timely manner of the possibility he won't get a scholarship) is just good ol' fashioned recruitin'!
if the kids know that a team (e.g. Alabama) has 11 scholarships over the NCAA limit (which is easy to do on oversigning.com and with rival coaches saying so), and chooses to sign, knowing that he may be cut, what's the big deal? If the kid wants to play for team X no matter what, let him.
If this is the argument, then why have any scholarship limits in the first place? Just let the school sign as many kids as they can afford, and then if they don't work out at least they get to keep their scholarship.
Because high school Seniors don't understand all the rules. Think about all the things about college that you didn't know at that age.
Also, I wonder how many of the kids who may not academically qualify understand the oversigning rules. And since these kids who are on the fringe academically are also the ones who are most at risk of getting cut due to oversigning....I find that to be a big problem.
You have to consider the kids already on the team who will be affected, not just the mentality of the kids from the current class.
It's not that kids don't know or understand (although based on the quotes, some don't) and I'm not even sure there should be an NCAA rule. That doesn't change the fact that oversigning puts the coach's interests ahead of the kids'. It's harmful to the players and counter to what college atheletics is supposed to be about (even if we're supposed to just accept that it's a business). Look at some of the comments from players and their parents:
Grant said the extra bodies, and the extra competition, "doesn't bother me—I actually embrace it. I know I'm gonna be a starter."
Cornerback Senquez Golson of Pascagoula, Miss., who chose Mississippi over Florida State, said that at the risk of sounding "cocky" he's not worried about being "run off" by coaches. "I don't think I'll be one of those players," he said.
These kids have been the best player on every team they've ever been a part of. The big fish are 17-18 years old swimming in little ponds, and don't fully grasp how big the new pond is going to be. But not to worry, they've got help in figuring out just how big a fish they'll be (emphasis added):
"It's a bit unfortunate that some people that come here will be denied," said quarterback Martay Mattox of Athens, Ga., who also signed with South Carolina. "They told me I could play pretty early if I came in and did what I was supposed to do."
Beckham says there's a "very good" chance that his son will get to play as a true freshman, based on both what coaches and recruiting sites have said.
Sure, they may be aware of oversigning, and may even ask the coaches:
...when he asked the Gamecock coaches about the numbers, "they explained it to me and didn't beat around the bush. They'll tell you if you're not likely to get on the field," he said.
See, no problem; the coaches always tell you if you're not going to see the field... except when they don't:
Montgomery's high school coach, Walter Banks, said, "I told them this was foul. I didn't have a clue until 18 hours before signing day, and if they say anything else, they're lying."
I suppose it is "helpful" to the coach, but it sure seems slimey and underhanded to me.
and the southern schools that don't oversing (Gerogia) have the opportunity to show these kids quotes from their slimy coaches about oversigning. It should be a slam dunk for Michigan to say, "listen, we won't boot you off the team if it takes you a little longer to develop and we won't boot your friends and teammates (since you're awesome). We're a family and at Old Miss, you are a pawn".
Basically, it's a free market and the kids should have some personal responsibility in life. If they are in fact booted, they can always go to another school with the thought that they tried to play at their dream school and couldn't hack it.
I'm undecided about the whole "student-athlete protection" argument, but I can definitely see your points. On the other hand, though, Michigan and Georgia don't have the benefit of those extra 25 scholarship athletes over four years.
That's a big competitive advantage being gained because certain programs skirt the rules.
Is the different ways of dealing with the media on the part of lifelong SEC fixtures, like Spurrier and Nutt, et al... versus Big Ten transplants like Saban and Miles.
For SEC-Spurrier, this is just the way they do things, y'all. He's sorry if y'all don't like it, but ain't nothin' to do about it. It don't bother him, and he don't understand why y'all would make such a big deal about it.
For Ex-B1G-Saban, and Miles, their press response is basically avoidance and "no comment." Because, while it might not technically be an NCAA violation, they know it is wrong and should not be publicly discussed. Because it is a problem; it is foreign to the way they learned about college football, and can hardly believe that they are still getting away with it.
to me, the sins of Saban and Miles regarding oversigning are worse BECAUSE of what you point out. That doesnt' excuse the Spurriers of the group, but to me, as a Big Ten fan, it hurts to see products of the conference act in a way counter to what they were specifically taught.
Don't forget, Mr. Spurrier himself was never a walk-on. He was on schalarship from day 1 at Florida and didn't have any problem remaining on top of the depth chart from his sophomore through senior year.
"so many of the players in the state come from underprivileged backgrounds"
in detroit, fire hydrants dispense merlot. in cleveland, parking meters pay you. in chicago, kindergartners are given a strativarius on their first day to encourage them to join the school symphony. in milwaukee, they have recently hired enough teachers to make teacher student ratios 1:1.
the midwest is and has always been the absolute paragon of privilege
In America, you watch TV, in Russia, TV watches you.
One of these days, I hope the rest of the world finally realizes how the SEC has accomplished winning all those consecutive national titles. By exploiting athletes and making a mockery of any attempts to balance academics and sports.
Now that it's coming to light everyewhere, things will start to change quickly. It will fall on many deaf ears, but if you're a parent and one school promises a year-to-year schollie and another says it's the real four they expect, it's going to matter in a lot of living rooms.
But that doesn't help the kids who get pimped. The NCAA obviously does need to step in
But the kids know about this and don't seem to care. The competitive advantage comes when Auburn and Alabama and Ole' Miss and whoever sign an entire extra class in a four-year period. There was an article comparing SEC recruiting classes the last four years compared to their Big Ten opponents, and the difference was ridiculous.
Arkansas signed 30 more than OSU, Miss. State had something like 20 on us. It's a huge disadvantage for the ethical teams.
They don't care because they are young and arrogant and don't see themselves as the kind of players who will be cut/medical scholarshipped etc. Of course, once they get on campus and realize maybe that they were not quite the player they thought they were their opinions might change.
Agreed. I'm not defending oversigning in any way; just saying that these kids aren't going to change, and that a case for change can be made from a competitive advantage standpoint.
Most kids who get a scholly offer from any major school percieve themselves as NFL-caliber talent. Nobody ever thinks that he will be one of those sent packing with no scholly.