Special Teams Coach

Submitted by KC Wolve on

Just curious.  I know UM doesn't have a dedicated special teams coach and I was wondering if this was the norm at big schools?  They have obviously been atrocious thus far with the kickoffs out of bounds, consistently returning kicks out of the endzone and ending up at the 15, and the circus that is a punt return (better as of late).  Just curious.

JNewberg24

October 17th, 2010 at 11:44 AM ^

I do know that the worst coach on the team shouldn't be in charge of an entire unit that places so much of the game on it. Gibson is really showing what type of coach he is. It sucks that he is so close to RR

mGrowOld

October 17th, 2010 at 4:48 PM ^

Wow....I had no idea he did both.  So the two positions of most glaring need of coaching (special teams and the secondary) are both coached by the same dude?  And the secondary has suffered increadible player attrition for some odd reason too.

I didnt know he and RR were pals.  I'm a BIG RR supporter/apologist but you're right about cronies and their ability to damage one's career.

steve sharik

October 18th, 2010 at 4:16 PM ^

...to critique or pass judgment on him in this, or any, public forum.

 

 

It doesn't look good, but a bunch of rookies will do that to you.  People also need to realize that attrition has a huge impact on special teams, especially punt/kick coverage and punt/kick return non-return guys.

For whatever reason, none of the highly talented DBs that were here before (Trent, Warren, Turner) didn't buy what Gibson was selling, but who knows whether that was Gibson's coaching or those players' attitudes (or both)? 

The only way to know for sure is to be on the staff, and if someone were, they would never make their opinions known to the public.  Furthermore, it's never good to do this sort of thing in the middle of the season.

I can say with some confidence that if Bo were head coach (or probably any coach not so personally close), Gibson would be under a lot of pressure to start producing results.

BlueinLansing

October 17th, 2010 at 11:46 AM ^

look, no one like the disaster that our special teams have been, but would people please look at the rosters and count the number of Freshmen and RS Freshmen who are participating.

 

Just a small example.

Kicker--Freshmen

Punter--Freshmen

Return men,  RS Freshmen, and Sophomore

Punt return, RS Freshmen.

Kal

October 17th, 2010 at 1:04 PM ^

No, I'm saying the terrible kicking isn't the coaches fault, nor is it really inexperience IMO. It's just being a bad kicker. That's probably why Coach Rod was openly asking for ANYONE that could kick decently to come try and walk on. You're spinning my words to make me sound like I hate the coaches, I don't. I think our kickers flat out suck, and there isn't going to be any coaching or significant amount of experience that really changes that. I hope I get proved wrong.

 

Also, when its windy I know kickers are allowed to have someone hold it for their kickoff rather than use the tee... is it legal to do this every time? 

KC Wolve

October 17th, 2010 at 11:50 AM ^

I get that, I was just wondering if other big programs had a dedicated ST coach.  I completely understand the fact that most teams backup LB's and DB's are on special teams.  Most of the guys starting on D should probably be special teams/backup players at this point in their careers.  

wolpherine2000

October 17th, 2010 at 1:15 PM ^

...is a function of coaching, and at some point our crap technical play on special teams has to be viewed as the result of players not developing technically.  The article (maybe in the Michigan Daily) about the walk-on PK's experience suggests that the guys aren't getting much technical help.  Coach Rodriguez suggests that it is unusual to have a kicking specialist on the coaching staff - I suggest that it is unusual to have a special teams unit as bad as the one we are currently enjoying.

Furthermore, when a kick is blocked, my 8th grade football team (though deeply inexperienced except by comparison to my 7th grade football team) still knew that the ball was live and someone should probably go down it or punish the dude that scoops it up.  Surely if the kids don't know the rules, the coaches have some responsibility?

And finally: I support RR and I don't think I am saying anything that isn't being said in Schembechler hall.  Point being: there's more to this problem than lack of experience.  Experience takes time, injecting some coaching leadership can be done now.

willywill9

October 17th, 2010 at 11:50 AM ^

I don't know but just for kicks I searched ND's site to see what they do, and ND's ST Coordinator is also their DLine coach.  Anyone know who he is? Well, I had no clue:

Mike Elston

 

 

Mike Elston
Player Profile
Position:

Defensive Line/Special Teams Coordinator
Alma Mater:

Michigan, '98

Michigasling

October 17th, 2010 at 11:54 AM ^

I finally noticed a reference to this in one of the other general coaching-complaint posts today, and then saw your specific question I'd been wanting to ask from those who knew more.  On  http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/fair-and-balanced-complaining-about-coaching  Wolverine 318 says:

"we have not had a special teams coach in years. We were complaining about the special teams back when Lloyd was coach. There are limits to the number of coaches we can have on staff."

So the other half of my question was about coaching assignments.  Regardless of a coach's abilities, which I'm not qualified to judge, why are the two youngest and most inexperienced areas of the team most in need of instruction and teaching assigned to the same coach?  Isn't that overload?  Why aren't the cornerbacks and safeties under one coach and someone else left to concentrate on special teams with its separate skills and needs?  Would appreciate feedback from those with greater football coaching knowledge.

Bringitback2a2

October 17th, 2010 at 11:55 AM ^

dont have anything to do with the ball going out of bounds. He doesn't say "Ok on this one kick it out of bounds" the kicker just messes up and for whatever reason kicks it out of bounds. Lets give our coaches a little more respect than that. Although i would like to see someone deep besides Gallon

johnvand

October 17th, 2010 at 12:00 PM ^

Howeva! it's tough for kickers to practice and hone their craft when they don't have ANY coaches on staff who know how to develop specialists.  We have all these freshman kickers and nobody who can spend 15-20 mintues with them each day observing their techniques and giving them coaching???  Seriously???  

See the "Calling all kickers" story in the Michigan Daily:  http://www.michigandaily.com/content/special-teams-feature-troy-clack-michigan-kicker

And I quote:

 

He was surprised about one thing he noticed in that first week though. The team, Clack says, doesn’t have a coach who knows the nuts and bolts of kicking techniques, or one who knows what to look for when his players kick in practice.

So the specialists, at times, end up coaching themselves, he says.

“When you have kickers that are doing their own thing at practice, it’s great because we can self-coach and coach each other,” Clack says. “But that can only take you so far. I didn’t have a kicking coach in high school either, but you come to a big school, you think you’re going to have some sort of coach that knows how to kick and will give you a few pointers.”

Even Zoltan Mesko, a former Michigan punter and now in his rookie year with the New England Patriots, taught him a thing or too about the science of punting and kicking. Clack says he never saw the same from special teams and secondary coach Tony Gibson.

WilliSC48

October 17th, 2010 at 12:24 PM ^

I can't wrap my head around this. The kicking game is a huge part of football, and we don't even have a coach that can teach these kids technique? They're having to coach themselves? I don't understand at all. No wonder our kicking has been awful for many years. 

cbuswolverine

October 17th, 2010 at 12:50 PM ^

I'm pretty sure that I could go out every afternoon and practice kickoffs and become competent at keeping the ball in play without anyone to guide me.  Hell, I can probably go out and kick ten balls in a row in play right now.  This has nothing to do with coaching.  

UMWest22

October 17th, 2010 at 2:36 PM ^

I agree with that point.  Gallon actually has been pretty solid, but I'm wondering why Stonum hasn't been returning kicks this year, and V. Smith has taken over.  I mean, D.Stonum did set the all-time record for kick return yards last year...

Just wondering if anyone has any insight

umich1

October 17th, 2010 at 11:57 AM ^

I don't think any one of us can argue against our field goal kicking being bad or the lack of attention yesterday after the block. 

But does anybody else notice that we never, ever, EVER have blockers back to protect Gallon during a punt return?  It seems that the opponent is always allowed to run touch free at our return specialist.  I don't know if its a mentality of going for a punt block every time or what, but jeez last week it almost resulted in Gallon losing his head.

bluebyyou

October 17th, 2010 at 12:13 PM ^

Another special teams question I have is have we actually recruited a place kicker in the last two years?  Last year, we weren't terrible, but at the beginning of the season there were doubts.  This year we are terrible.  Even an average kicker would be way better than what we have.

Does anybody know if we tried to get a kicker?

JudgeMart

October 17th, 2010 at 12:37 PM ^

Two kickoffs out of bounds is unacceptable, and this isn't the first time this season.  All of his kickoffs (when they go out of bounds) are hooked to the right.  Seeing this, the special teams coach could suggest to the kicker to move the ball to the right hash mark when kicking off; this would give him more of an angle and less chance to kick it out of bounds.   Also, # 74 (John Ferrara) was blocking at left tackle and got destroyed by Clayton on that blocked field goal attempt.  Also, not the first time this year.

These are two easily fixable in-game adjustments that could me made by a decent special teams coach (who doesn't have other duties assigned to him during the game!).

JudgeMart

October 17th, 2010 at 5:53 PM ^

I was in the north end zone, so both of the kickoffs I'm referencing went to my right (kicker's left).  As to the other point, it was Ferrera who got turnstiled (like that word) as Campbell was blocking at RG next to him...

Farnn

October 17th, 2010 at 12:34 PM ^

I believe I read that OSU doesn't have a special teams coach either.  My guess would be that due to a limit on the number of coaches a team can have set by the NCAA, most teams don't have room on staff for a dedicated special teams coach.  It usually seems to fall to some assistant to handle their position and special teams. 

NateVolk

October 17th, 2010 at 12:36 PM ^

The Head Coach of this program is responsible for the final product in all three phases of the game. That's a fact and one Rich would definitely agree with.  He is an accountable individual and a stand-up guy. Special teams is an area that can be improved quickly with knowledgeable coaching.   Fixing the issues, would give us a better chance of winning games.

No sense being on the deferred winning program.  All that stands to do is cost us a really good head coach.

Victor Hobson …

October 17th, 2010 at 12:54 PM ^

clear-cut LEADER in charge of special teams.  Leadership isn't just a word or some abstract notion, it can be employed.  The problem is most people aren't leaders, especially young kids nowadays, so the fact that we've got players coaching and attempting to lead themselves is a concern.

We need one coach who can devote all of his time, energy, and leadership skills to special teams, a coach who recognizes the problem and focuses on the solution, who will stand up and say, "I've had enough of this. We're going to fix this and make it right and we're no longer going to be a detriment to the team, we're going to be the reason we win games. And if we fail, it's on me."

The talent is there, but the talent can't lead itself.

moffle

October 17th, 2010 at 1:00 PM ^

Jeff Genyk, the head coach at EMU prior to English, is now the Special Teams Coordinator at Cal.  (Though he is also the tight ends coach, I think the special teams are considered the primary responsibility.)

For what it's worth, Cal also had a lot of problems with kickoffs going out of bounds a couple years ago, in spite of having a dedicated special teams coach.

KC Wolve

October 17th, 2010 at 1:00 PM ^

My point wasn't to criticize the current coaches or players. I just think that special teams in college are huge and can turn around a game in an instant with a big return or hit. When we are currently returning a kick, I can't help but just hope we either catch it or that it goes into the end zone. To me, a struggling D's best friend would be a playmaking special teams and even though they are really young, most of them are big time athletes that should excel at special teams.

ShruteBeetFarms

October 17th, 2010 at 1:11 PM ^

We've kicked off a lot. People are acting as if every kick goes out of bounds. With young kickers teams will have these problems.

I've even seen NFL games where the kicker has kicked it out of bounds. (Dallas vs Tennessee last week).

Coldwater

October 17th, 2010 at 3:30 PM ^

What RR needs to do is bring in and pay a kicking guru/consultant during Spring pactice to work intensivley with the kickers and punters.  RR obviously doesn't have any kicking expirience, so ask the athletic dept to shell out a few bucks and bring in someone who actually knows the proper way to kick a damn ball. 

 

RR is at the top of the ship.  He's the leader.  The fact that the kicking game has been reduced to high school level is on him.     STOP THE INSANITY!

Yooper

October 17th, 2010 at 3:43 PM ^

If it the second priority of a position coach you won't get the right results. It is like any business position people work hardest on the area that determines their success.