Special Schadenfreude: OSU on their QB and Offense Situation
So, over at Eleven Warriors, one of the key Ohio State blogs, they have great discomfort over their team. Specifically, fans are really struggling with their QB situation, and with their offense. Here's a sampling of thread links:
LINK: Chris Spielman, Bobby Carpenter, and Cris Carter on the QB Situation
Discussion on how they view the QB sit, with some tweets. Here's one:
Chris Spielman said he's doesn't know why Urban Meyer is going with Cardale Jones. Said the timing between QB & WR is not there.
LINK: What's the Panic Meter with the Offense?
Discussion not just on QB situation, but entire offense. Here's a sample post:
If Ohio State doesn't beat this Maryland team by 28 points (the same Michigan beat them) and dominate throughout, panic is the right word. How could it not be? You'll have seen the team not perform as well as your rival against a common opponent, right before hitting the meat of the B1G schedule.
LINK: This Offensive Debacle Finally Makes Sense
Convoluted discussion and theory on why things are going so poorly with Ohio State's offense.
Also, apparently their live board really melted down on Saturday, with extremely inappropriate and racist comments about Cardale. A good reason not to go to a totally live and totally anonymous chat.
For being 5 - 0, and the number one team in the country, Ohio State fans are really nervous and struggling. Oh, and one other thing. I haven't seen nearly as much in the way of thinking Harbaugh is a lousy coach. They still think he is half crazy, but not too many think he is a lousy coach. In fact, a lot of them really, really wish he would go to Miami: they realize that the jig is up for OSU dominance in the Big 10.
This is the kind of schadenfreude I really love. I mean, the schadenfreude of Texas fans? That's just piling on. The schadenfreude of Buckeyes? Them are some delicious, tasty nuggets.
October 5th, 2015 at 7:20 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 7:33 PM ^
PSU
at Rutgers
Minnesota
at Illinois
Whatever "problems" Ohio State has with their 4 Heisman candidates on offense (C.Jones, E. Elliott, JT Barrett and Braxton Miller, they will probably get it figured out by the time Michigan State rolls into Columbus. It is ridiculous that Ohio State is ranked 33rd in the nation in total offense right now.
The problems are first world, and probably more coaching related than player talent/development or complacency-related.
I think it's more that Ohio State's offensive coordinators are just not Tom Herman.
Ed Warinner is a co-offensive coordinator cut from the Brian Kelly / Mark Mangino cloth. Tim Beck is 100% self-made-OC from the Bo Pelini era at Nebraska.
Both had their days, but personally I think Tim Beck is way better at achieving Herman-like results than Warinner, particularly in the run game.
Right now Ohio State is passing too much (too pass centric). This is Mangino and Brian Kelly shining through on Warinner, IMO.
Only 46 rushing attempts by QBs Barrett and Cardale Jones after 5 games. Meanwhile 146 passing attempts, lower completion % and too many INTs, not enough TDs.
What made Tom Herman's offenses so lethal was QBs that kept and ran the goddamned football. This froze safeties, LBs and CB and made for big plays on ever down.
That bone-shattering fear is gone when you have Barrett or Jones passing 80% of the time.
Look no further than what Tom Herman is doing with QB Greg Ward Jr. at Houston. He leads the team in rushing and passing stats. The 60% pass, 40% run combo at QB is what is the main reason Houston is 4-0 and more exciting to watch.
October 5th, 2015 at 7:39 PM ^
Like your take on the coordinator influence. The downtick in performance is especially intriguing with the crazy talent that the Ohio State squad has literring its roster.
I think this is a clear testament to how much coaching(coordinating) really affects the level of play. Especially at the collegiate level. Urban Meyere admittedly & objectively is helluva coach winning national championships at different schools,but before the Herman era of scary offenses associated with Urban, I recall those Florida Tebow-led teams won with spectacular defenses (with some Greg Mattison/Charlie Strong D coordinating). Maybe my memory is baised, I'm not sure. In either case, it is critical to hire the best assistants possible, and I think its crazy when people don't expect a change (for better or for worse) with assistant coaching changes.
October 5th, 2015 at 8:03 PM ^
This is such a key point. Drevno, Durkin, Mattison, Baxter, Fisch, Jay, Jackson, Zordich, Wheatley . . . that is a killer lineup of coaches. The coaching changes made game to game, and at halftime, are something I've never seen at Michigan. The players are hungry, and the coaches are bringing them there.
October 5th, 2015 at 8:41 PM ^
I've been very impressed with how they have a philosophy . . . balanced attack, use the run to set up the pass . . . but are extremely flexible and creative in how they get there.
We all know they wanted to run on Maryland, like WVU and a MAC team did, and were probably shocked and dismayed that they could not.
But they did not dwell on it. They looked at what they could do, went to it in the 3rd quarter, and scored 3 quick TDs.
This may be a MANBALL staff, but it is not a 27-27 staff.
October 5th, 2015 at 10:40 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 11:28 PM ^
I'm going to partially disagree with the MANBALL assessment. Or at least the manball definition as designated by the caveman offensive philosophy we used to have. This offense while it may not execute to the level we would like quite yet, the coaching does everything possible to give us a shot as you've mentioned above. We do alot of very smart chesslike subtle things with our formations, motions, adding counters, and areas where wrinkles could be added which have not been tipped yet but you could see where they would be added for future games. Cool example is the fake dive, fake jetsweep to Chesson, tight end screen to a Jake Butt (who is NOT an eligible receiver, but able to take a screen play since it is behind the LOS). Later in the day they line up the exact same but give the jetsweep to Chesson. Beautiful. The 2 pt conversion straight out of the patriots play book--Motion to determine Man or Zone coverage, the crossing Pick. Unbalanced Lines with confusing eligible/ineligible receivers. etc. etc.
This is a pro-style staff, and I love the creativity and chess like schematics they are able to implement weekly. The staff is not afraid to borrow from the pros or get creative here. By the end of the year we're going to have quite the arsenal up our sleeves; however, we'll see how how limited we are by execution/Jake Rudock.
October 6th, 2015 at 11:26 AM ^
his limitations, Rudock is the perfect guy to run this offense for Harbaugh. Sure, he'd love that rangy Rodgers-type qb or Russell Wilson or another Colin Kaepernik, but isn't Rudock Alex Smith without Smith's ability to throw down field?
The point is, he needs a quarterback who can absorb a lot and make good decisions without putting the offense or defense in jeopardy by them. The job of the quarterback is to move the ball and cash in scoring opportunities when they are presented either through long sustained drives or quick-hitting plays. We've seen both with this offense and now we expect greater efficiency.
In the NFL, you need a mobile qb unless you have a franchise qb with great game understanding running your offense. In college, you just need a guy who can make certain plays and not screw things up too much. So far, Rudock is doing enough. With time and tutelage, he'll do more and become better because he understands his strengths and limitations.
October 5th, 2015 at 8:17 PM ^
They'll probably be 10-0 when MSU comes to Columbus. The only decent team they play before that is at Illinois. And plenty of decent Ohio State teams got buried vs. the Ilini.
I look at all of the greatest teams in college football history. 1983 Nebraska, 1997 Michigan. All of them had warts. Every damn one of them. Ohio State 2015 is no different.
I think the Indiana game was a huge wake up call for Urban Meyer. With Indiana up 10-6 at halftime, he looked genuinely pissed and fed up on the sidelines.
There are two ways for this to go:
a. Urban takes control of the wheel himself or gives it to over to Tim Beck
OR
b. no course change, and the Buckeyes flail around for another 4 weeks.
The other thing is, while Buckeye fans are bitching about QB performance, Indiana just scored 27 points in that game and probably left another 14 on the field. Ohio State's defense looked rattled. That is one of themost talented defenses we will ever see play in the Big Ten this fall. IMO Luke Fickell is not top caliber.
October 5th, 2015 at 8:37 PM ^
The team has a whole does not seem to have the focus to harness all that talent and not just the offense. Whether its complacency from winning a natty, a summer of partying, offensive coordinator change, etc. You're right though, at the end of the day the W or L are the only thing that matters, and they may very well not have anyone to challenge them while skating by until MSU.
On one hand that is a lot of time to fix whatever issues they have, but on the other hand they may not be honing their focus and reaching their pleateu trajectories relative to talent when you don't get tested by better adversaries. This is something that we'll see in the upcoming weeks. What I DO know is that we will be getting better week in and week out--I have that faith in our new coaching staff. We will be a vastly better team from the one that lost to Utah in week 1 and there will be one helluva game to play in for The Game.
Go BLUE
October 6th, 2015 at 9:29 AM ^
We're calling Illinois decent now?
October 5th, 2015 at 8:18 PM ^
They'll probably be 10-0 when MSU comes to Columbus. The only decent team they play before that is at Illinois. And plenty of decent Ohio State teams got buried vs. the Ilini.
I look at all of the greatest teams in college football history. 1983 Nebraska, 1997 Michigan. All of them had warts. Every damn one of them. Ohio State 2015 is no different.
I think the Indiana game was a huge wake up call for Urban Meyer. With Indiana up 10-6 at halftime, he looked genuinely pissed and fed up on the sidelines.
There are two ways for this to go:
a. Urban takes control of the wheel himself or gives it to over to Tim Beck
OR
b. no course change, and the Buckeyes flail around for another 4 weeks.
The other thing is, while Buckeye fans are bitching about QB performance, Indiana just scored 27 points in that game and probably left another 14 on the field. Ohio State's defense looked rattled. That is one of themost talented defenses we will ever see play in the Big Ten this fall. IMO Luke Fickell is not top caliber.
October 5th, 2015 at 10:19 PM ^
October 6th, 2015 at 8:24 AM ^
Maybe they are trying to save the QBs from taking too many hits before the end of November?
October 5th, 2015 at 7:22 PM ^
I think we need pump the brakes on how osu is playing. I still would take their offense over ours and their D is as talented as any other team including M. They have been put into bad spot over and over again due to TOs by Jones, but they have a great coach and time until we play them to figure it out.
That said I hope we demolish them.
October 5th, 2015 at 7:25 PM ^
We're just commenting on the results of their games thus far in the season. I think most of us expect OSU to show up loaded for bear in November.
If you want to hear the freakout end of the world crowd go to OSU's own fan site 11W it's quite delicious reading.
October 5th, 2015 at 8:05 PM ^
There's a lot I'd take at OSU, but I think we are going to give them a game, and I'm not worried about the talent level at Michigan competing. The way things are laying out, it will be an incredible contest.
October 5th, 2015 at 11:59 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 7:25 PM ^
You could see some tense Buckeye faces in the stands during that game, to be sure, but then there was a totally measured reaction that is normal when your struggling offense goes up 2 on Indiana:
I guess it really is the little victories right now in Columbus.
October 5th, 2015 at 7:27 PM ^
Most of their fans hate that guy. And the guy in the white cowboy hat.
October 5th, 2015 at 7:43 PM ^
What? Their fans don't like looking at the proverbial mirror and seeing their true nature?
October 5th, 2015 at 8:06 PM ^
I really dislike that guy. And I've seen a couple things on him suggesting that yes, many OSU fans don't care for him either.
October 6th, 2015 at 11:33 AM ^
This and that other guy just act the part better than the others.
Must give credit to this guy for one thing: he shows up every week for their game. Dedication, man. Other than that, he looks like a guy from a Mad Max movie.
October 5th, 2015 at 7:27 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 7:30 PM ^
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October 5th, 2015 at 7:40 PM ^
World of Warcraft shaman
October 5th, 2015 at 7:49 PM ^
We were asking that same question this past Saturday.
October 5th, 2015 at 7:59 PM ^
He's gotta make pretty good money right? He's at every Ohio State home game and that adds up fast. Tickets, travel, hotels, etc. Probably one of Ohio's premier meth cooks
October 5th, 2015 at 8:20 PM ^
My buddy is a nurse who works near campus and he also sees "Buckeye Guy" aka "Cowboy Hat Guy" frequently around in full garb. No idea why...
October 5th, 2015 at 8:04 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 10:24 PM ^
Can't make any money of those things when you give them away to players for free.
October 6th, 2015 at 4:17 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 8:22 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 9:05 PM ^
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October 5th, 2015 at 7:27 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 7:28 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 7:28 PM ^
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October 5th, 2015 at 7:29 PM ^
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October 5th, 2015 at 7:31 PM ^
Why not run Cardale more? Are you afraid he's going to get hurt?
#1 - He's bigger than everyone he's going up against, so he's going to hold up better
#2 - You have JT Barrett as your backup QB, who may be better than Jones.
Unless he's trying to force Jones to throw the ball more now so he can make him a better passer for later in the year when he wants to run him more.
All I know is that they're undefeated - so it really doesn't matter at the moment.
October 5th, 2015 at 7:41 PM ^
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October 5th, 2015 at 7:35 PM ^
I agree this is why it is so hard to repeat in any sport
No hunger, nobody thinks they have to carry the team and they can skate by and let all the heisman candidates do all the work. Everyone has a ring, nothing left to prove.
Back to back MSU UM is gonna be rough.
October 6th, 2015 at 8:11 AM ^
I agree with this as well. Their end of season last year was almost Cinderella-esque. They weren't a lock to even make it into the playoffs, their strength of schedule was terrible, with only one quality win against Michigan State. It's hard to repeat something like that. I think you have to find an identity in all that, and they haven't found theirs yet.
October 5th, 2015 at 7:30 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 7:31 PM ^
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October 5th, 2015 at 7:31 PM ^
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October 5th, 2015 at 7:31 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 7:49 PM ^
October 5th, 2015 at 7:33 PM ^
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October 5th, 2015 at 7:47 PM ^
I feel their pain (Texas). Firing an AD.. all that. All hits too close to home.
October 5th, 2015 at 7:54 PM ^
Just go back 53 weeks. Michigan under fire for concussion gate with a 2-3 record. Trust me, it is not difficult to "feel like Texas" fan.