Lord of MGoAvatars.
to play football, not to play trumpet
Lord of MGoAvatars.
with intent to do bodily harm
2 days missed spring practice.
You have very efficiently summed up the Dantonio era of MSU football. Well done.
You apparently have not seen the special items in Dantonio's office. He is exempt from most rules. I'll say no more.
Assault with intent
Two days missed of spring practice
Didn't this happen in january or is this new
Yes it did, but no one actually knew specifics of what the incident entailed.
So clearly, to Dantonio, punching a guy and then repeatedly kicking him while on the ground should only result in a suspension of 2 spring practices.
Zero tolerance for missed practice is probably what Dantonio means.
Hmmm...the Aspen Times articles mentions March 10 as the date the assault occurred.
The other question is what were these guys doing in Aspen? Spring break?
But really. The precedent was set with Glenn 'fastest when running between jail and the practice field' Winston, why is anyone surprised that the players missed only two practices.
We can talk about it all we want, but the example has been set in East Lansing. Anything short of a SECOND assualt with the intent to do harm or possibly something worse will be met with little punishment.
The beating of the victim and getting tasered are newly released info.
The original January story, IIRC, had only mentioned that both ran from police after committing an ambiguously identified infraction that read as an MIP (one is a minor) and/or drinking or intoxicated in public.
This is a bit more serious that a couple kids running from the cops because they were drinking in the public way and/or in possession.
But my opinion carries no weight in East Lansing.
the tradition continues. This story is about a month old. but it never really gets old
Slapping their wrists.
Whenyour elected officials don't give a rats ass about punishing thugs like why is it inumbent upon Douchetonio to do so?
I blame the courts which will undoubtedly let them go with slap on the wrists if that...
Lloyd Christmas told me Aspen was in California? That liar!
I'll tell ya where we'll go. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talkin' bout a little place called...Aspen.
I bet that's what that guy was thinking until some Sparty thugs beat the shit out of him.
The level of punishment seems about right for two young (i think) first time offenders. I wonder if the victim is filing a civil lawsuit for his injuries, thats where I would expected the hammer to fall a little more on them.
Seeing as this happened in Colorado, you're probably right that the Michigan courts won't do much.
You are arguably the worst poster on this site. Just shut up.
Pride comes before the Tasers.
Michigan State comes up with a good kicking game. How do they do it?
hide ya kids, hide ya wife
That's probably out the window already. Dantonio needed to set an example at some point down the line and hasn't. For some reason it seems that nobody with any publicity cares.
FWIW I think that needed to happen with the Glenn Winston case. How he was ever legally allowed to set foot on MSU grounds again is beyond me.
If Dantonio had sent a message with that, I doubt you would be seeing the same problems with your program that you are today.
People would have taken notice and that includes players in bars in Aspen. Just that little extra second of, "will I risk my football career/chance at the NFL for doing this?" is usually enough.
I'm sympathetic to universities who are more willing to allow people to continue their education after making some pretty big mistakes. However, playing on the football team is a priveledge and a position that is representative for the school, and not something that he deserved after that degree of thuggishness.
Does Dantonio still have a reputation as a disciplinarian? Not living in Michigan anymore and MSU's general lack of national coverage means I'm not too up on the media's current take on him, but I seem to remember him catching a lot of flack for letting Rucker play against Iowa. I kind of thought that move busted up his reputation, more or less.
What's the word on RCMB? Any outrage, or more rationalization?
Edit: Answered my own question. SMH: http://michiganstate.247sports.com/Board/93/Details-of-the-Aspen-Arrests-1945607/1
Where are the respectable MSU blogs?
One of these days, my travels will take me up to East Lansing. They do have a fairly nice campus.
Visiting friends once or twice, boredom and the desire to go for a nice long drive the others. It's a decent town; there are some beautiful dormitory buildings on campus. I don't know about downtown Lansing though.
Downtown Lansing has the Capital Building which is a pretty impressive looking building.
I checked The Only Colors a few times in basketball season, and the content seemed decent for the most part. How are the commentators, ideologically-wise?
P.S. I've played on the carillon in the tower in the TOC logo--that's the one on State's campus, correct?
Carillonneurs are an unusual bunch. We're usually so dazzled that we actually found the tower and that the tower carillon is open that we completely forget where we are. I had fun playing and meeting some of the MSU carillon department. If I was contaminated, it was hopefully neutralized by my Ohio heritage, which made it...challenging, at times, to be a college student in the State of Michigan.
Anyways, thanks for the TOC breakdown. I'll check it out from time to time when I want the facts about MSU athletics.
I read TOC, it's a good site.
I would love it if the MSU alumni would get together and stand up for some friggin standards sooner or later, but these are people that support their school's decision to continue employing outright cheaters.
MSU alumni haha like who? Charles Rogers, TJ Duckett, and Jeff Smoker? They were all very strict law abiding citizens...
Little brothers tend to be immature, and therefore susceptible to cheating
At this rate, we don't need to do any negative recruiting at all. MSU does it all for us!
And yet that delusional fanbase over there will somehow justify "college kids being college kids." Sorry, I was a college kid and I don't recall EVER:
nor my friends weren't ever chased by police. But it takes a true kind of asshole and coward to go 2-on-1 and then repeatedly kick the guy when he's down.
2 guys in a bar fight isn't a big deal in my mind, but that's not really what this was.
Please read the headline in the link. It wasn't a bar fight. It was a spat.
Thus, two spring practices!!!
I would totally prison-gang-beat a guy lying helplessly on the ground if he knocked my hat off at the bar.
Funny you say that because this is the typical reaction from most of my Sparty friends.
My other favorite is "Read the details of the case blah blah blah". Coming from a message board that can't even properly solve a simple math problem.
Christ, look at that drunk fucker smile like he's at a family reunion
2 guys fighting one, and kicking him when on the ground. I'll guess the english dude was half their size. These are true assholes
Consider me shocked that they didn't hand out ANY punishment.
When Arrington got arrested for domestic abuse under Carr didn't he miss multiple games??? I'd love to see a comparison of punishments showing what Spary hands out and what we've handed out in the past so I can rub it in my Sparty friend's faces.
One Sparty tried to compare Stonum and Grady's DUI's to Rucker last year and I had to remind him that Rucker also had a previous charge from their little gang party.
Disclaimer: I don't know the details of the story (or if it's true, but I absolutely trust the source), only what I was told.
My uncle was on campus during the Bo days (he was class of '76 IIRC) and told me that one day he was in an A2 bar and there were two football players present. There were also two long haired hippy types, and the football players started harassing them, eventually prompting them into a fight. Well, turns out the long haired hippies were pretty fresh off a tour in Vietnam as some kind of special forces troops and within a few seconds were in positions to kill the players (glass bottles, IIRC). Needless to say, the story ended with Bo kicking these guys out of A2...after getting their asses kicked. Apparently my uncle bought these guys a drink after and that's where he heard their background.
Never pick a fight with anyone because you never know what you're up against.
Score one for the long-hairs. I have an uncle who was in Special Ops in 'Nam, and he's as crazy as any Ohio State fan, in a hard-line pro-military kind of way. Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with that stance; it's just intimidating to be around him.
So funny you say "long-hairs". I had completely forgotten what he called them.
their fans are proud of it
That answers my question from above.
It's never acceptable for violence, save for when you're defending yourself.
One half of the argument on the RCMB
The direct respose by the other half:
"go masturbate on a porch and sit out the opening kick off"
What is it with their obsession with WalMart Wolverines anyway? What fricking difference does it make what team a person roots for anyway? I mean, I went to Eastern but I root for Michigan (although I'm torn when Eastern plays Michigan but generally I know the outcome so it's not terribly difficult). Is there some law somewhere that says you have to root for the team of the school you went to? (And yes, I do root for Eastern as well but see above)
And for there being no WalMart Spartans.....I'm sure the guy I saw with his hat cocked off at about a 45 degree angle with his pants down to his knees and the Spartan basketball Jersey went to East Lansing, right?
Personally I don't give a damn where someone went to school as long as they are rational in their fandom, don't use "scUM" or $$ in the names of other schools, and have at least semi-interesting things to say.
Well there still is the matter of my maize and blue cat but other than that, I'm pretty rational. My only nod to denigriating other schools is Spartoon and Suckeye. Although, I was thinking of watching the beatdown on the Eagles last year until I realized I would be giving a nice chunk of change to Ohio State. Plus, I was afraid that their brains would stop at "Michigan" and I'd get harassed.
The "Walmart Wolverine" thing is totally Sparty's -- hardly any Michigan fans care if you were a student or weren't -- because the only reason to ever root for State is if you went there. It's not like there's a period of sustained excellence, program values, or any kind of likeability to Spartan fandom to attract anyone (with a few exceptions of course).
Going back to the Little Brother analogy, when my brother and I would get in fights as kids, sometimes we'd use the 3rd brother as arbiter. Because I was always nicer to Brother 3, he'd pick me, even when I was totally in the wrong. This then got Brother 3 a punch in the face from Brother 2.
Part of it is that lots of Spartans were Michigan fans before getting rejected. As with all rejected apostates, their greatest scorn is reserved for what they see as inferiors who didn't betray along with them.
The MSU shoulder chip -- which ironically is exactly what makes MSU fandom so undesirable to non-alums in the first place -- is based on the premise of Michigan the snooty too-good-for-you's, an exclusive fraternity with the party you "never really wanted to be at anyway." Then in this moment of heightened class consciousness, past you walks a parade of people you consider your social inferiors, out to party at Upsilon Omicron Mu.
It's contempt bred from Michigan State's particular type of fandom bred in jealousy and acrimony.
How's the joke go?
What do UM and MSU fans have in common? They both applied to UM...
now i feel like an idiot, but what's the punchline?
aw dammit I think I figured it out. Eh. It's kinda true. But we're like that about MGoEverything.
Funny thing is that when I went to school, State never really entered the equation for me. My dad suggested Tech since he went there but I didn't want to go there. My heart was set on Michigan and I applied there but I applied too late. I was conditionally accepted but I needed something for sure, so my counselor suggested Eastern and then transferring. so I applied to Eastern and got a scholarship there and ended up staying there.
I have a few theories of my own, but they fall along your outline.
I thought I did a pretty good job of not overstating the meme. The segment we're speaking of -- athletic fans who were Michigan fans until 18 then went to MSU and switched allegiances -- is probably the minority of students at MSU. However among Spartans I know it's not just the majority but the entirety. Literally every one of them -- siblings, siblings in-law, parents in-law, one parent, grade school friends -- were Michigan fans until the letters came. One who ended up on MSU's 2000 basketball team wore maize and blue every day of school from 2nd grade through 7th, and being the best athlete in our class, his recess team was invariably Michigan.
These are the people who in my experience complain the most about "Walmart Wolverines," the greater the betrayal the greater the complaint. You mentioned in another reply above about "earning" the right to Michigan arrogance. I guess the key point of disagreement here is that Michigan fans generally don't think that being accepted to the University of Michigan is a prerequisite for rooting for Michigan, or perhaps more to the point, that there's more than enough to be arrogant about in the storied history of Michigan Athletics to feel good about being a Michigan fan without bringing up the University. If an Oakland CC fan is chanting "If you can't get into college go to State," well that's pretty silly.* However it seems equally silly to me to suggest that a brand as big (and a school as small) as Michigan should act like its athletic program is just for the students.
Nebraska is that state's biggest sports team -- how many of their fans didn't go to the school? USC is the de facto pro** team of Los Angeles. You don't see Iowa State fans blowing a fit over filling Kinnick with folks who never went to Iowa? At Michigan the fans are just one section, and then there's another whole Spartan Stadium's worth of space to fill with an alumni base that mostly lives out of state.*** The brand is national, and its participants should be expected to come from more than simply State Street.
Anyway, I appreciate your comments very much and thank you for responding with class to something that wasn't written with rivalric equanimity in mind.
* So is the chant, but whatever.
** I mean de jure - lolz
*** This you can give us shit for. Wolverines overwhelmingly abandon Michigan after getting degrees; State fans not as much?
yep - Ishbia.
Grew up down my street.
1. MSU fans are jealous
2. They are also hypocrites, given they didn't attend Detroit Lions University or Red Wings College and yet they still cheer for those teams (anyone from Detroit who isn't a Tigers fan is a terrorist)
3. The idiot machine at 97.1 promotes this, and it is becoming the face of the program. I think many Sparties welcome that voice, but it is reinforcing the meathead stereotype that most of Spartyland disdains.
Just to chime in your statements of value, I somewhat agree, but that doesn't necessarily apply to a decent amount of fans. On this blog alone, I can think of several people who are either obviously too young for college, in a foreign country, or at an institution that better serves their needs.
I would fit the "Walmart Wolverine" meme though I was accepted at UM. Financial considerations meant I took an academic scholarship at another school instead. For others, coming out of CA or TX or even NY (a hell of a lot of population in those three) plus Chicago (my home) are all looking at out of state fees which are a big barrier. I have no problem admitting I didn't/couldn't go to UM, but I sure as hell love both the athletic program and the fanbase. To be clear, I have a lot of respect for the school as well, but respect in a more distant way. I have no problem rooting against my university in a football or basketball (or whatever) game, but I'm not about to denigrate my own academics for the sake of M/family.
Oh I know exactly what you mean. I just didn't see in that particular post your addressing that fact, which I think is a pretty big deal.
I know I'm not going to come on here and hear "WW" from you; frankly I'm not concerned about it at all (aside from a few students/alums who apparently don't care that my current school is literally as good as it gets in my speciality because it's not Michigan, that gets annoying).
And thanks, I try not to be an asshole; I certainly don't bank on superiority for the sake of superiority, especially one not "earned" which was really your original point.
Jealous b/c they're not MSU fans.
Pro/College distinction is irrelevant for programs like Michigan, OSU, Texas, USC, etc. MSU-type schools make this distinction given they can't really do anything else.
Being a fan doesn't have to be earned through anything other than loyalty and passion. Non-graduate fans of Oklahoma, Nebraska, Boise St, etc. (in addition to those colleges and pro sports teams above) would find your argument odd and unnecessary: why do you care who I'm a fan of? It's classic insecurity, like an angry boy insulting those who've rejected him. There are few, outside of Spartan fans, who don't understand this.
I've lived all over the country, seen Red Wing fans, Lion fans, and Michigan fans... don't ever remember running into an MSU fan. But you can't blame WW's for that.
it's a tired argument anyway. I don't think many care why MSU fans are obsessed with WW. Just like I don't care why you're a Wal-Mart Red Wing fan, though I don't mind that you are one. I'm glad you're on board.
I, however, did go to the University of Detroit Red Wings, so I've got a stake in how this game turns out. Go Wings!
He thinks the purveyors of WW are jealous that someone with no allegiance to either university would choose to root for U-M rather than their beloved Spartans.
Someone (I think the Freep) did a survey and found that there are equal numbers of Wal-Mart Spartans out there. Basically, Western Michigan, in my experience. So really, it goes both ways. What can you expect in a state with two B10 football programs but that those who went to different schools (or no school) will elect one to support? That doesn't bother me, but the insistence of Sparty fans in calling everyone who contests their opinions "Walmart Wolverines" does.
I will catch myself on occastion playing that game but then I think do myself that I don't like it when people denigriate my degree. Although in most cases, it's people who don't have degrees themselves. Personally, I think having a degree of any sort is an accomplishment when you consider how many people start college and don't finish (I forget what the exact percentages are but I want to say they are below 50%). In my professional experience I've met smart people who went to Michigan and I've ment dumb people. The same goes for State, Eastern, Western, MIchigan Tech, etc. So I don't know....
The key to The Michigan Difference though, is that in the broad spectrum of the smart-to-average-to-dumb people who went to Michigan vs. the spectrum of those who went to other colleges and universities, our "average student" is at a much higher level than the averages, or even the elite students, at many, many other schools. Our elite students at Michigan are second-to-none in their respective departments. If Michigan has a school or a department with tenured faculty in any given subject, it's going to be strong, or at the very least have extremely bright, dedicated students in it (to the best of my personal recollections).
Offhand, the only major things I can think of that Michigan lacks are a vet school, or ag programs / turf management-type majors. MSU has the State of Michigan's major departments or schools in those areas by design, so if a student is interested in these branches of study, MSU or In-State Local Equivalent would be the better option. The net package though, is truly elite, with the great diversity of course offerings at U-M.
It's gonna backfire on them. Nebraska entering the fray, MIchigan now drawing their most coveted recruits and the beginning of a more challenging schedule, they could very well be chasing the ghost of 2010's magic very soon. The perception of their fans towards what MSU has become will shift fast when that happens.
Reality: It's a more or less a renegade program without any semblence of meaningful player accountability. Their fans won't even really put up a fight arguing it at this point. The most they'll get is: "it goes on everywhere" or something weak. Fine if you are winning big. But does anyone think that's going to consistently happen with Michigan being Michigan again in the near future?
Dantonio would have been better off doing what Saban did and parlaying a 10-win season to a job with less local competition from an elite school. Glad he didn't, because I think seeing him get beat a few times by Michigan is really high on a lot of our wish lists.
It is near the top of my wish list.
I think the more important trend is that Sparty will be Sparty again this year. They had a nice season, but a lot of stuff went their way. They are an 8-4 team at best. I am guessing that at least two of the things that went right for them go wrong this season. That makes them 6-6 with a trip across I-96 the Pizza Pizza Bowl.
So the University of Michigan wins the EDSBS charity fundraiser while MSU continues to move up the Fulmer Cup standings. Can't say I'm really surprised here.
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they screwed up big-time, lost their tempers and beat someone up in a bar, then ran from the cops. They will be a long time recovering from this event, which will haunt them--
oh, wait a minute. They're MSU football players. Nevermind.
Yet, he was run down from behind by an Aspen cop (at least, in taser range). I give that FOUR fakes out of five. Good closing speed by the officer.
EDIT: Here's the visualization of that.
So does this ensure a starting position for these two? They went out and demonstrated their toughness by double teaming some poor English kid so they deserve a spot in the starting lineup.
That should show them pretty well not to do anything that could get them suspended from something meaningful like a game.
that on the day these details come out, MSU is doing fullcourt media press on the offensive lineman and his battle with cancer, returning to the MSU team.
Which they've already covered in depth at least once since January.
Nothing to see here, but look at this shinny pinwheel State fans.
I see you are from Lansing. I'm from Columbus, and as you might guess, this is a Buckeye town down here. What's the feeling on the street from the msu fans in your neck of the woods WRT the ongoing string of arrests, criminal charges, etc. being made against the msu athletic teams? Is anyone worried, or is it a general head-in-the-sand response?
get it and they are starting to see the pattern, I still think they accept it as long as they beat Michigan. The dumb ones just care about beating Michigan anyway, anyhow.
Even the downtown booster clubs financial irregularities was swept under the rug. Real news stations would have dug deeper, but not here in Lansing.