Breeds negativity, so the stupid shit written on here can effect ones mind! He just needs a mental health break!
Space Coyote Appreciation Thread
I appreciate SC's contribution to the board, but I still disagree with him, generally, about Borges. Just because SC is a coach and most of us aren't, he's automatically right about everything football-related?
Forget the PSU game...can anyone really argue that Borges put our kids in a position to win against OSU last year? I'm ok with losses that result from us being an inferior team, or our kids making mistakes. But when coaches don't give our kids a chance to succeed, it drives me nuts.
One of SC's sticking points is also that "because Borges has been around for a long time, he knows what he's doing." Even if I didn't know the difference between football and baseball, I could tell you that sometimes that doesn't mean jack shit.
This has been my one issue as well: the presumption that because person x has more real-world knowledge about coaching, his opinion supersedes others. Coaches can be wrong, and while Borges is a perfectly competent OC, perfectly competent OCs can call bad games. Was it as bad as 27 for 27 made it out to be? No. But there seems to be a counter-factual out there in which running Fitz and Green for less than a yard a carry worked within the flow of an offense, which I'm having a hard time buying.
But I wanted to say that Space Coyote brings something to this board that in my opinion would be hard to replace. He is insightful, uses common sense, and has an understanding for the how and the why when explaining x's and o's. I truly hope that he stays here, and continues to bring his thoughts to the board.
Please bring back negs Brian, for the sake of everyone here and the sanity of this board.
I upvoted the OP b/c the board is better with the Coyote around. With that said, I don't entirely agree with his rant. To the extreme anti-Borges posters, yes, I agree. But it almost seems as if he is saying we shouldn't criticize Borges much b/c he is experienced and knows more about football than we do. Of course he does, but his end-of-game PSU calls were HORRENDOUS, and while only 14 of the 27 for 27 came in the first 56 minutes, I, for one, am complaining about the last 13 runs in the last 4 minutes plus OT. Unbelievable play calling.
And unfortunately, there have been a couple other games that just make no sense (OSU 2nd half last year).
While Borges knows tons, that does not mean that he is automatically different than the many other football coaches throughout the country that do suck for one reason or another, and should be fired. I'm not saying that is Borges, but I am saying that it is not an impossible idea.
but other people know and (GASP!) football here. No offense but he made a pretty basic comment/observation in another thread and some claimed it literally gave them goosebumps, were going to steal it to sound like a better fan, etc. I was cracking up over how basic it was and it being treated like wisdom from Lombardi himself lol. We have coaches and ex-coaches on this board. Some if us very successful and know football to the point that they can call the play on both sides before the ball is snapped. Football is an easy game. Again, I like SC but this verbal statute building of him the last few days is both hilarious and idiotic. Nothing he has said lately has been awe inspiring, imo. Basic and obvious? Sure. Amazingly insightful? No. Yet, neither have I so not knocking him but finding this love odd. Like how people make multiple accounts and praise their own comments (huge in scout when I was there, not saying SC did/is).
I don't know if I hate Swype or myself more for never noticing it's wrong guesses our flat out failing to input a word? ha
SC just needs to do a weekly diary a counterpoint to Brian on Tues or Wed and leave it at that. Some weeks he might agree with Brian, others he may not. Either way he can say his piece in one post, perhaps respond to comments in that thread and leave it at that.
or he can just leave. The internet will go on.
I have gone back and forth with him in the past bc we disagree on something. It happens. I don't take it personally and he shouldn't either. Going around trying to change 100 posters mind every week one post at a time will drive you crazy. so stop doing it.
Forum posts should always be viewed as standing in front if a group of children. You hope that some of the kids will grasp the concept, but you are guaranteed to hear a lot of crying, moaning, and temper tantrums. Explains why we show the muppets after a win and kittens after a loss.
life "queer baits"? Please expand further upon your insightful post...
find a better way to complain rather than making gay references.
You're someone I would really like to spend some quality time with.
Really, let's get together. It would be so much fun. When are you available?
Are you like, pretending to be Kenny Powers or something? You realize that character is a joke, right?
You seem well balanced.
That is very interesting. Tell me more.
Which gulf? There are quite a few in the world.
I've always heard the heat and humidity can take its toll on a person. Hang in there.
I have not even read ten posts from you, but I am honestly wondering how you ever got to 239 without getting banhammered to the Gulf of Bolivia.
Well, with out Bleednblue's wonderful posts interspersed for context, this section of comments now seems like a bit of an inappropriate conversation to be had on this message board..
Pining? Not the word I would use.. over a user who contributes to this board in a positive way. I certainly wouldn't "pine" over a user who first insults the site and then says "queer baits." You would see a post this caliber over at RCMB.
I didn't need clarification. I said that pining wasn't the word I would use.
And you're not helping your case.
...and your comment is a perfect example of why this site is sliding downard, too.
I'm not sure what a vaccuum is, but regardless, my site really has nothing to do with the discussion here. I don't think anyone brought it up but you. You're just throwing out random insults because you have nothing else to say about the topic at hand.
...and it goes further off topic.
I'm done here.
Not with this site, of course. Just with you.
I liked you better when you were on thorazine.
I'd call you the biggest MGoAsshole of all time, but you would not doubt wear it like a badge.
Edit: this post was to bleednblue, who has been rightfully vaporized. Well done Mod.
And now it looks like Magnus and I are having weird conversations with ourselves.
Obvious troll is obvious.
On the ridiculously small chance he is not a troll, I'd say there's a 0.01% chance he was alive for a game coached by his avatar.
Whatever Space Coyote complains about pales in comparison to threads like this.
As one of the more vocal posters unhappy with Borges I have had several discussions with Space on the topic over the past several weeks. While I respect his opinion I do not necessarily share it, but I agree this board will be a poorer place if he stops contributing. I think one of the more enjoyable aspects of a board such as this is the debate itself with knowledgable posters such as Space.
I asked the question yesterday in the Hoke presser thread about his (to me anyways) seemingly blanket endorsement of all things Borges and he gave a reasoned and rational defense of his position. Just like a week or so ago when I had a similar debate with The Last Hoke on the same topic and at the end I had to agree with many of his points. That's what I thought a fourm such as this was largely for - the give and take of opinions and ideas with those who agree but just as importantly, those who do NOT agree, with our stated position.
I went back and read the thread that upset SC and unless posts were deleted I'm not quite sure which comment or poster was his "straw the broke the camels back" but if it was simply his inability to convice posters such as me that we should support Borges and his offensive game planning I think that's sad.
Since I was mentioned in his subject about his post not being directed at me, I'd like to say it wasn't my intention to start the huge Borges debate again. I was simply making a point about his several mentions of "minimizing the damage" and my assumption was taken out of context.
Space Coyote is one of my favorite posters here. I'm a schematic person myself and can sit and watch film for hours at a time. So SC's posts and insight are particularly interesting to me. It would be a shame to see him stop posting here.
People are entitled to their opinion.. And I'm upset about the outcome of the PSU game as well.. but the "BLADFSDFWERSF FIRE BORGES" comments are growing old.
Oh, and since we're on SC, I'd like to mention that he and LSAClassof2000's picture are similar in color schemes. So when I'm scrolling through a thread I often stop at both of their posts.
are always appreciated here. I can't break down plays like SC can, which is why I appreciate reading his (and Brian's) thoughts.
Here's one thing I DO know from watching 45 years football. Unless you have a DOMINANT running game (we don't), you won't run the football when the other team KNOWS 100% that's what you're going to do. I was miffed about the stubborn running in the final drive in regulation against PSU, the one where we punted from midfield. That game should have been won in Q4, and it's on the play calling, IMO. I am NOT in the "fire Borges" camp though.
You didn't have to be a football wizard to know what you saw happening there, and those of us who bitched about it were within our rights. Also, I've watched enough night games to know that you LOSE the close ones on the road unless you make the kill shot when you have the chance.
All that said, again I really do appreciate SC's breakdowns and insights. I'd never argue those things with him or question his knowledge, but certain things are obvious even to regular fans.
Don't Space Coyote. U know your shit man. We appreciate your insight
I appreciate the support, but in all honesty, I agree with the people that say this thread is unnecessary. The point of my rant (and remember, it was just that, a rant) wasn’t even “I’m leaving for good”. The last line was actually about being done with that thread, because I was tired of arguing my point repetitively to people that didn’t want to listen, so I took many of the advice given on this board before it was even given. I’ve let many things slide, didn’t reply to many comments. That’s all fine and dandy. At the end of the day if I left this board it would fall anywhere from virtually insignificant to minor. This isn’t my blog. The top draw, as it should be, will always be Brian. I’m not so narcissistic as to believe my personal presence on this board is worthy of a post appreciating me, is worthy of half the praise I get. The fact of the matter is that I’ve coached high school football and studied the game from a coach’s POV since I was in middle school, because it was “what I wanted to be when I grew up.” So I have a fairly decent understanding of how the game works, I have a love for coaching and football, and this board is a way for me to do that while I can’t coach.
I’m certainly far from an end all, be all talking point about football. This is why my contention has and will never be “trust Borges because he’s forgotten more than you know” or simply “he’s been around for 20 years so shut up”. While both of those statements are true, in and of themselves they are fairly meaningless. Those statements are also true if they’re directed at me. Those statements are also true if they were about Rich Rod and directed to anyone on this board. So those statements include completely different schemes and philosophies and all that jazz. In the end, neither coach, scheme, philosophy is completely right and certainly neither is completely wrong.
I’ve been labeled as a Borges apologist, which isn’t really true, but I don’t care. In questions asked of me, I’ve answer that I don’t think Borges is a great OC, I think he’s merely above average. MGrowOld (I believe) asked me if there was anything I disagreed with Borges on or would do differently, I had a nice long reply saying that there is a lot I would do differently and disagreed on because of personal preference, but the point stands that it doesn’t make his preference wrong.
So that brings me back to what the whole rant was about, and what my argument has been about from the beginning. I don’t mind people liking the spread more, absolutely no issue with that what so ever, I think the spread is a hell of an offense. I have no people wanting bubble screens, great play when practiced in my opinion. I have no problem with people saying why they didn’t like certain game plans. I have no problem with a lot of things some people think I do, because frankly, a lot of it I personally agree with. I have a problem with people taking an answer from a press conference and then acting like Borges is a brain-dead fool when his answer is the same answer almost every other coordinator would give under the same circumstances. I have a problem with not even attempting to understand his perspective, why he called the plays he did, why he had the game plan he had, and acting like he’s so stupid that he has absolutely no clue while the obvious is so obvious that any and everyone else can see it. People have constantly brought up the argument about how they can make the argument because play calling isn’t really that hard. Well, they can argue things, they can have a preference for play calls, but their logic works against them. They are right, in the grand scheme of things calling plays is very simple. It’s the most predictable part of the job because to a large extent, you actually have control of the pieces (unlike Borges’s joke about not punching someone in 20 years, which someone also took in a snide way). It’s not all that difficult to call a play and think it should be executed, set up another play, and to take advantage of things the defense gave you. Those are all things Borges did. Maybe he should have called a few less runs with Fitz. Maybe he should have done a few things differently within his game plan, but the play calling itself is far from the issue. Blame the game plan that was set before the game, blame the execution which is still highly on the coaching staff, blame so many other things, but it seems to always go back to the simplest of things: play calling.
Look, I’m an engineer with a master’s degree. I’m a rocket scientist. I still make simple math mistakes sometimes, it happens. But if you’re telling me that if I make simple math mistakes time and time again, if I continually do the simple parts of my job wrong, that I’m going to keep my job, or keep getting new jobs, and someone, one of the thousands of other people that want my job, won’t get it, you’re wrong. There are literally thousands of people that would take Borges’s job right now if given the opportunity. Some of them are in coaching all across America at various levels, including DI, DII, DIII college coaches, many high school coaches, etc. To insist that Borges’s problem is that he can’t do the absolutely simplest part of his job, well, do you not see how that is insulting? Do you honestly not see how the constant comments that insist that he is a complete moron and often fail to substantiate their argument or not only don’t have a basis, but don’t have a foundation or backing at all, can be grating (and trust me, regardless of how many I skip over, there are still a lot lately). He’s not an idiot. Disagree with him, fine. But the constant twisting of his words and the simple-mindedness that goes into a lot of the insults, and to some degree, the at least indirect insults that have been put on me, have been tiring.
FWIW, I have absolutely no issue with Brian. I’ve said this to multiple people. I believe Brian has a preference, which is absolutely fine. Brian also backs up a lot of his preference. Brian knows more about football than 99% of people. He’s perfectly capable of forming opinions, and 95+% of the time I agree with him, which at most just adds another data point. There are the other times I disagree with him, and that’s fine, we both have opinions on the matter, different preferences, different ways of looking at things. I took issue at some point last week with something he said, and that’s about it. Brian is not to blame in this. All Brian has done was try to explain things from his perspective and give the resource (this blog) for which to do that. But there are certain groups of people that parrot him, and often times only parrot the conclusions or some of the tongue and cheek comments he makes. Brian himself said something along the lines of “I don’t even care if it’s a bubble screen or not, that’s just an example”, but people missed that. They missed the reasoning behind him using that example. And instead they just parrot “bubble screen” (this is just an example).
So that’s where I stand on this whole thing, this is a long post, and yada, yada, yada, there was a lot to say. I appreciate the support, but this isn’t necessary. When I was writing my posts for other blogs last night I did decide I was probably going to take a break from the comments here for a while, that’s fine. I’ll be back at some point hopefully. Hopefully by then some of the problems I have with the comments section right now will be minimalized. The problem isn’t other opinions, it isn’t debate, it isn’t disagreeing with me. I hope that point is clear. The problem I have with a lot of this stems from the other things I talked about.
Also, my rant helped me pick up about 50 new followers, so that was kind of a cool, very unintended side affect.
You need a Snickers. Halloween is tomorrow, but you can have one today.
So does this mean you'll still have a been with me before a Browns game someday?
Seriously though - I hope you know I didnt ask that question yesterday to be sarcastic and I did appreciate your answer. I just honestly wanted to know.
And frankly, I think you're a good poster that I can have good discussion with. I think a "been" (I know you're saying beer here, but I'm probably catching you during an edit) with you before a Browns game would be good sometime
Let me know the next time you're going. Jill (my avatar) and I will be there this week and prolly pre-gaming at the Winking Lizard off East 9th.
I copy and pasted your e-mail if you wish to delete it from the thread for spam, whatever issues/reasons. Will do next time I'm going to a game.
Now that Space Coyote is back (never left), we don't need BLEEDNBLUE anymore! Woo HOOO!
"I have a problem with not even attempting to understand his perspective, why he called the plays he did, why he had the game plan he had, and acting like he’s so stupid that he has absolutely no clue while the obvious is so obvious that any and everyone else can see it."
thinking this way, even if you ultimately still think that doing X or Y was a mistake, is both more interesting and less frustrating as a fan.
FWIW, I enjoy reading your input to educate myself, and i realize there's a lotof shit on the board, but my response to not really knowing about what Borges does in the realm of "right and wrong" is normally to just not say anything. I think there is a great deal of value in having educated responses that disagree with Brian's points. It helps us make a more educated decision in our criticisms one way or the other.
I'd wager that the bullshit is the loud minority of followers, and some of them are probably just falling into the mindset that the anonymity of the internet allows you to just blow your shit everywhere as a catharsis with no reprimand.
"Look, I’m an engineer with a master’s degree. I’m a rocket scientist. I still make simple math mistakes sometimes, it happens. But if you’re telling me that if I make simple math mistakes time and time again, if I continually do the simple parts of my job wrong, that I’m going to keep my job, or keep getting new jobs, and someone, one of the thousands of other people that want my job, won’t get it, you’re wrong."
See - this is where you and I disagree.
I'm also an engineer.
I've seen people in large, profitable, multinational corporations continually do the simple parts of their job wrong - and keep their job. I've seen less qualified people hired over more qualified. I've seen UNqualified people hired over qualified.
The idea that any job in any field is a true and pure meritocracy just ain't reality. There is a strong correlation, but it's far from tight or absolute.
Hopefully you're back for talk about the Michigan St. game. I know that sounds like a terrible idea after the past couple weeks but we're either going to be ecstatic or severly depressed and Borges will be a big part of that (oh, and the execution of the players and all that jazz). Anyway, maybe not all that intriguing to think about but I for one will be eager to read discussions (maybe participate a bit) about what went so right for our guys and how Borges pwnd Narduzzi or soooo bad that everyone here will unfortunately be calling for heads.
(or will there be a separate thread for that?)
that is all