Pop Warner left and such.
spoiler alert: i linked this
Pop Warner left and such.
Who are you? You can go...
Yeah, but he SHOULD NOT. You, I'm not so sure about.
Take it easy newb.
Coyote's opinions actually bring something to the board.
How many boards are you going to make awful to read? You have already turned me off to UMHoops.
How about you leave?
When a poster with a three day old account tries to be cute by telling a long standing and valuble contributor to this site to basically "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out"... yeah, he can go. But thanks.
Say it from your first account, maybe then you can get some credibility
Nothing personal and I apologize for being so harsh.
i think he was referring to gustavo
Who are you? How long have you been here? 4 days. Oh.
A guy who signed up four days ago (which means he's either totally new or is a formerly-banned user, neither of which gives him credence) should not opine on the matter.
Should I cry or beg for forgiveness or something of that sort?
Seems like a knowledgable dude and I like his posts. That said a college football message board is never going to be a sane place.
The roof is on fire, here.
How much of this is on the complete and utter lack of any sort of Neg? It's like MLive around here without the ability to self-police.
I'm looking at you Brian Cook.
Gotta agree. SC makes some fair points that have led me to question some of my initial Borges frustration. However, many of the "anti-Borges" folks (e.g., Brian) pose some strong and well-informed questions/complaints without getting personal, mean, or making idiotic claims like "Borges is stupid and doesn't understand football."
Much of it is difference in philosophy of the game, and if the point system was still around I think we'd be able to have much more civil conversations.
Yeah, I've got to think that 20%-30% of what we've seen over the past few weeks would have been greyed out by default in the past. And unless you go looking for them, those idiotic posts just wouldn't be there. I was amazed at what came out of the woodwork after PSU.
I appreciate you Space Coyote!
"That said a college football message board is never going to be a sane place."
You're probably right but why is that? There aren't many, if any, 14 year olds here. Why can't adults behave like adults even on the "Innanet"? These same people will then turn around and trash the SEC schools fan bases for doing the exact thing that they come here and do everyday.
Well, nobody is perfect. Good is not an absolute. So my theory is that the gray area that exists in everyone is kept in check in real life, but the dam breaks in places like this.
I'm not going to call my boss a taint pustule because I am well versed in the "don't get fired" method of employment. I'm not going to call my wife a cackling emo hen, because I enjoy the whole still getting some every once in a while thing.
But the internet, well... that's still the wild west. Don't like my theory on why we should run the A-11 offense? You should go try to sodomize a male brown bear because you are stupid and I now hope your family gets sick with avian flu.
Now, I am a very agreeable person in real life. I don’t really fit the mold of a guy who has a ton of points on an online message board (although I doubt that most do follow that mold). On here, I try to stay tolerable, but I do also realize I can be much more abrasive. Not as bad as some, but I’ve had my moments.
It’s just a more anonymous version of road rage.
Because Internet gonna Internet.
That was easy. I've really gotta master that whole "succinct" thing.
yours was way better. Also, now I'll spend all day trying to find an excuse to call someone or something a "taint pustule." So, thanks for that.
There are plenty of teenagers here. And I would argue that their ratio of Bolivianed-to-non-Bolivianed is higher than the rest of the board, and for good reason.
That being said, a lot of problems could be solved with the self-policing that existed under the negging system. I guess I've never understood why it's so technologically prohibitive to reinstate it.
There are plenty of CFB forums with perfectly sane discussion.
Should I take back my comment that Space Cowboy looks like he's 12? Too soon?
Let's be honest, they're just taking their cues from Brian, who believes that his 10 years of armchair generaling equal a lifetime emersed in football, and that anyone who doesn't run the spread is dumb chickenshit and conservative and needs to GET WITH THE TIMEZ.
the guy who created this great forum that you merely comment on. I rarely completely agree with Brian and I think some of his views are sometimes caveling, and at times extreme. So I take Brian's and others' views and form my own opinion. If you so completely dislike Brian's point of view - then perhaps it is time to find another blog.
Frankly, I appreciated Space Coyote injecting a knowledgeable counter point into the panicked herd, but this is the internet ... you can't let it get to you ... Space Coyote has gone all Kevin Bacon with the predictable trampled result. ("All is well. Remain calm.")
The truth is in the middle, and probably something we'll never know because it had to do with strategy, and tactics based on personnel, injuries, mental state, etc.
There are things I disagreed with during the game (runs into futilely stacked boxes, and the punt rather than a Wile long FG attempt), but I also thought that Gibby would save us. It just wasn't his day.
I think Space Coyote should consider a breather, and then I hope for a return. AND the sooner we get up and down voting back, the better.
I think we all appreciate the work he puts in, but he did right an entire post (including pictures) of "the dumbest play ever" and didn't realize there were only 10 players on the field. I'm not saying he isn't knowledgeable, but it's almost like a political website. He throws out a few talking points (typically about how RR's offense was amazing and he wants it back) and then it gets parroted by a bunch of posters that don't know shit for the next week.
on the field make it dumbest to the infinitiest or something?
Yes and no. Mostly no.
The RUNNING of the play made it really stupid. A timeout fixes that, and the lack of a timeout was stupid.
The play qua play was fine. And that's what Brian was taking issue with. Its a zone stretch to the strong side. Every team runs this. It wasn't even a bad play against the look we saw, as we had 1-1 on the playside due to PSU not aligning very well and the backside backer being frozen by Gardner's boot action.
Appreciate your candor here, honestly. I think our Overlord sometimes overlooks how people look to him for emotional cues. I stopped doing that a long time ago because he's a bit of a roller coaster. Just check the PSU podcast soundtrack . . . lotta Smiths there . . .
I stopped after a conversation I had with my dad right after Hoke was hired. I was all "he's a bad coach, we settled, we're going to be worse than ND, he can't recruit, lloyd carr 2.0" etc etc, and then we happened to have the radio on on the way back from breakfast, and it was just filled with former M players talking about what a great coach he was and how he was the man for the job and I realized...man, they probably know a little more about this than Brian does.
That said, I love Brian's analysis etc, and I think he's a great ambassodor and evangelist for Michigan football; I just feel that some people don't understand that he makes his critiques from a standpoint of an amateur fan who has done a lot of studying, and that A) He works hard to make the right diagnosis and B) He still might not know as much as the pros.
It's just annoying when we have people parrot what Brian says without contributing anything to the conversation other than "Yeah, FUCK BORGES"
I agree with your words. I wasn't disparaging Brian, just making an observation. Brian is the #1 UofM fan. He's made it into his livelihood - I certainly can't compete. I don't want to. I have two kids and a wife that require my attention and if I'm off the deep end because of a loss then I'm not being a good father or husband, and that is far more important to me.
I like to nerd out on football, this is a great place for it. That said I'd like to keep it nerdy and lose the emotional side of it because its more annoying than anything else. SC, like Brian, is a super football nerd. Therefore, I love his posts.
I had this same conversation with someone on FB last weekend. I just wish people could read this for what it is, entertainment.
I don't always agree with Brian (though I usually do), but I would add that he A) openly admits that he doesn't know as much as the pros, B) admits when he's not sure about something, C) admits when someone brings up a good point that might contradict his viewpoint, and D) admits if he was wrong about something.
Some people will always be ignorantly pro- or anti-Brian and will get polarized and simplify complex topics because this is the internet. And they'll be allowed to take over much of the feel of the blog because the point system is MIA.
Eh. I remember a post Brian did last season saying that Borges designed an Iso play with a free running LB in the hole. He was so insistent that he responded to my comment that no coordinator is that stupid. It really seems like he thinks a professional coach is that stupid.
A few weeks ago, he called a perfectly good play the worst he'd ever seen. Right away, I commented that the stupid play was hampered by the fact that we had 10 men on the field. He said he trusted his eyes more than the radio announcers. But we got photographic evidence that he was wrong. He has issued no correction. Not to mention that the play was still actually OK, with a 1-1 blocker/defender ratio to the playside. I'd like to have more blockers than defenders, but when its even, its hard to call something the stupidest play ever.
Brian is a great blogger. Great. But this skill has given him cache amongst a lot of readers, so he leads the charge. The entire Fire Borges thing has been, if not created, exacerbated by Brian. He actually fought to keep Coach Rod employed here, and he gave great arguments, not only debunking anti-spread crap, but creating a legion of spread admirers. Why can't he take a sane approach to the pro-style offense that we now run? He doesn't have to love it, but he can and should learn about its strengths as well as its weaknesses. Borges obviously doesn't prefer the spread, but he, like Brian, is not a fool. He uses it because it works for us.
I've said this before, but while Brian is a spread guy, if we were running pro style all the time and were undefeated and showing the ability to run the ball from under center he would be quiet (mostly, IMO) about this. But, contrary to your statement, running from under center does not "work for us," it hasn't worked for us since Hoke came here, and that is a statistical fact. IMO that is the reason his criticisms have legs. We run more effectively from the spread, another fact. So he is advocating what works for us, which to me give the criticism validity.
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Borges has run the spread for 2.5 years to some degree or another because it works for us. He is not a spread guy, but he runs it because it gives us a chance.
And you are right about Brian. He was mostly quiet while we were winning. But after PSU, he told the mods "Now is the time for anarchy". This makes it seem like he was just waiting to pounce on a loss. And I don't think that's fair.
The larger picture is this: we wont be a spread team much longer. Brian may be right about the superiority of the spread, but it will soon be a moot point. To continue as a great blogger, hell have to learn about the things we do run. And he will. Just had a post on triangle concepts in the passing game. It got like 20 replies because it didn't pertain to the narrative that our OC is a buffoon.
D sometimes, and not remember much of C happening, though I'm sure it has at times.
Agreed. I like Brian; I like that he's a fan, not just a sportswriter. But he struggles sometimes to balance his desire to objectively analyze things with his preconceived notions about what is good and bad coaching - and people reading the site should take that into account. I've never heard Brian argue, for instance, that the 2010 OSU game was an offensive debacle, even though our highly-ranked offense was held to seven points (26 below its average) - a huge failure by any standard reckoning. Whereas the 2012 OSU game, when we scored 21 points (eight below our average) - by objective measures, not a particularly subpar outing - is constantly brought up as an example of terrible offensive coaching. In the former case it was simply too difficult for him to criticize an offensive staff that, in his view, ran the optimal scheme. In the latter it was too easy.
In my humble estimation, that's always been simultaneously one of the more endearing qualities of the blog, but also one of the more problemic ones as well.
Brian is part fan, part analyst.
A fanalst, if you will (allow me to steal a gag from Arrested Development).
Sometimes it can be confusing because the fandom parts creep into the analysis, and at times the paradigm shifts several times within a given post.
And like you said, Brian has a number of biases that he makes fairly clear. He's also an extremely emotional guy and that emotion often times makes him a prisoner of the moment.
These are all things people need to keep in mind while reading his pieces.
given that Rodriguez was fired after that season anyway. Brian even stated he thought Rodriguez should be let go after the bowl game. (though he criticized The Process that Brandon went through to do so; I agree with his reasoning.)
Regarding 2010, Michigan gained 351 yards against OSU. Only 12th-ranked Miami (352) and 8th-ranked Arkansas (402) outgained Michigan that year against Ohio State. In 2012, Michigan gained 279 yards against OSU, which ranks 11th in total yards gained against OSU that year (only Illinois was worse). Given the amount of text that Brian has written to show yardage is a more reliable metric than points, this at least shows that Brian's point of view is consistent and based on more than "SPREAD GOOD MANBALL BAD".
Brian definitely has some knowledge of the game but the problem is that he's sharing his views and people are taking that as the gospel because this is where they come to gain knowledge of their own. What they don't realize is most of the stuff covered here football wise is a matter of perspective, especially as it pertains to our problems and the solution to those problems.
Every discussion on this forum seems to begin with the underlying premise that what Brian says is gospel, so disagreeing with him takes an incredible amount of effort. There is also seems to be a general feeling that not running the spread is a choice that could only rationally made by people who lack the capacity for abstract thought and hate knowledge and learning - it doesn't exactly foster a positive environment.
I personally have decided to diversify my sources of M football information and take Brian's post for what they are - informed editorials with identifiable biases.
EDIT: and I should be clear that I very much appreciate and respect this blog and the content providers here. My knowledge of the players and football concepts is worlds higher than it was when I started reading 4 years ago.
I had no idea that this blog reflected the proprietor's opinions about Michigan football. Guess I'll throw away the "Gospel According to Brian" that I was compiling . . . .
Meanwhile, can you direct me to a blog that doesn't suffer from these deficiencies, but instead is (i) run by a current or former coach for a high-level college or NFL team with real-life on-the-field experience, and (ii) doesn't just give opinions, but instead tells me the facts of what the Michigan coaches were thinking when they made their decisions and whether those decisions were correct or not? Then I can stop wasting my time at this patently inadequate site.
Somene who denigrates and misrepresents an opinion he disagrees with. Or doesn't comprehend the opposing opinion. I'm not sure which one you are, but it's one of those choices.
Brian has an opinion and a blog that people read to see that opinion, agree or disagree. OF COURSE he is going to argue it vigorously. But he does not argue it in the way you suggest, at all.
Lastly--decisions on philosophy of play calling and football strategy DO NOT require coaching exoperience to have a valid opinion. Brian (or you, or me) has every right to question a call on 3rd and one, or chossing FG over going for it, etc. I agree with Space Coyote overall, most particularly in his rant about the criticisms of Borges being stupid. But many coaching decisions ARE fair game for questioning, and do not require coaching exoerience to be correct.
That was a superb rant.
Space Coyote is one of my favorite posters for one main reason, aside from the above rant he doesn't post based on his emotions. A lot of the posters here make stupid comments because they're upset (and jealous) we haven't traded places with Ohio yet which has led to the overall negative tone that has loomed over the board lately. The "OMG its year 3, I feel like dying" bs seriously is annoying. We all want the team to be perfect but seriously, this is not the place to come and vent 24/7. Get a journal if you want to do that. Unfortunately, I think even Brian contributes to (if not fuels) that negative dynamic at times and people just run with it until they're blue in the face. I don't know if the point system is really to blame but the atmosphere around here HAS to change soon.
Space Coyote is the best non-staff contributor on this blog and better than most of the staff. Telling him, "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" is at best short sighted and moreover mind-numbingly ignorant. But I guess that's where we are.
Brian's 27 for 27 post seemed mostly an emotional response, but in UFR he does seem to try to understand what Borges (and Mattison) are trying to accomplish. Besides, Space Coyote wasn't demanding a moratorium on criticism, he was railing on criticism using untrue or unsound (or fact-ignoring) assumptions. Though he made his point forcefully, that underlying point seems fairly non-controversial to me. I don't think many would prefer debate that becomes unmoored from reality, even if we might disagree a bit on who has the right frame of reference.
often enough, but his posts usually contain the defined reason for the emotions - or one shows up later.
This is why Brian should not be the captain of a ship or pilot of an airplane. (e.g., Capitan of the Concordia)
Here you go: ignorant: lacking knowledge or awareness in general, uneducated or unsophisticated.
Someone who is so haugty that they would tell one of the great contributors here to piss off is ignorant. They have a lack of understanding. No great poster = no great posts. You see how that works?
The alternative, since you need to have it spelled out for you, is to show your appreciation.
This guy instantly became one of my favorite posters with that rant! I'm not the #1 fan of Borges but I think he's done a much better job than everyone has gave him credit for.
Magnus is treated the same way...he deals with it. Alum is the same way. I've had nice, even heated back and forths with both. Never any hard feelings, but you're going to catch shit any time you come across as a "know it all," doesn't matter if you do or don't. Hell, I'll probably catch some for this very post, however, I'll continue...
It's a message board and this is 2013, your opinion is going to be challenged whether you're right or wrong. And the reason I put "this is 2013" because 5-8 years ago people just game to these sites for information. They let the experts and insiders do the talking and they just asked questions for the most part.
Now everyone is an expert. But that's just the age we live in...just like fans and social media and HS kids, just like a channel called ESPNU (as in UNIVERSITY or COLLEGE) that talks about HS football 50% of the time.
5-8 years ago your insiders gave the info, 5-8 years ago grown men weren't Facebooking or Tweeting at HS kids they didn't know...5-8 years ago message boards we're full of drunken idiots who ruin it for everyone.
Also 5-8 years ago, you didn't have so many young/immature posters. I remember that every now and again in the offseason you'd get a random "How old are you" thread and there would be very few posters under 18. Everyone usually fell into the 18-40 category. Now you get these middle school kids who think they smarter than you, me, Coach Hoke, everyone.
At this point you just have to accept that this is the way it is and the way it's going to be unless Brian allows for a serious tweaking of the moderating that gives the good posters more power and makes it easier to eliminate the bad ones.
I know me...I'd shut up a lot more if things were different, but when every else is yelling, you sometimes have to yell or be obnoxious just to be heard. I love reading the insider stuff, at the same time I don't care who you are...I'll challenge anyone's opinion. But what really sucks is the shit posters that flood the board and truly make it tough on everyone.
That said, I've accepted that is the way it is and will always be. I've moved on.
He never complained about arguing with people. Just people throwing out nonsense as fact, or less than nonsense as an argument, the kind that take meme points from the front page and run them into the ground.
If being a know it all means you think there are actually other viewpoints and ways to look at things, then this board thinks it means something other than what it means.
I wasn't responding to his complaints...I don't even know what he said to be honest.
I was responding to the OP.
Btw, I apologize...I should've thrown you in my last post and actually realized it 10 minutes ago when I was reading another thread. I look forward to the insight you bring along with the others.
That said, you're going to get shit for it from time to time.
Now if that's not what the complaints are about, my bad...but again, I wasn't responding to anything Space Coyote said because I don't know what he said (and that text box was way too long for me to read tonight). I was more responding to the OP so seems to think people are running him off and he's not going to post anymore because of the state of the board.
As for people throwing around opinion as fact, we have a ton of laptop head coaches...but every board does. But I think you can credit that to the fact that we have so much GOOD information on this board. You can learn so much about Michigan Footbal and football in general here that you start to believe you know more than you do.
Either that, or you're pretty good at NCAA Football '13.
And maybe SC has waded into it more deeply than he should. I was probably him at one point posting against every idiocy on here, but doing it a lot less politely than SC. You have to save it for misinformation or outright lies.
But you're not a newbie, you know how it works....hasn't it gotten noticeably worse around here? Blame popularity, blame lack of negging and moderation, blame it from the de-evolution from Brian's ideal to the acceptance that "Internet gonna Internet" or whatever. But the "sound to noise ratio" is getting worse. You've seen that, I have to believe.
I could tolerate the snarky comments about someone's misuse of the English language. I get annoyed when I have to spell check a post.
But I haven't seen so many people get called an idiot for taking a different point of view. People run to Wikipedia so they can make a quick point and they're suddenly the smartest SOB in the room.
Some may blame the "change" on the PSU loss, but I think that just magnified the noise. And I don't think beating Sparty would correct things. A win on Saturday just calms the storm for a few days.
I "deal with it" by crying myself to sleep every night.
Awwww. Lets hug it out!
I was talking recently to a guy I know, who I consider to be the smartest football mind I have ever met. We were talking about offensive philosophy, and i brought up Borges. This guy is a HUGE Georiga fan, and general SEC lover, but understands the game in a way I've never seen. I asked him his opinion of Al Borges, whom he rememberd from Borges' time at Auburn. He replied with this:
"That was a scary dude when he was at Auburn. He had his system, and it really worked for him. Michigan is isolating him too much under a microscope, especially in the penn state game. Every OC has his style, and though that was a crushing loss, y'all should be thankful that you have Borges, becuase about 75% of the nation would kill to have him as their OC, not to mention a couple of NFL teams. There is no such thing as an OC that gameplans every game of every season perfectly, and y'all need to realize that. Plus, once y'all get some SEC style beef up front, that will really set everything up."
I agree whole-heartedly with my friend, as Borges has done a great job over the last few years. It's what Hoke wants in an OC, and this is EXACTLY what we signed up for when we hired Hoke.
As for Space Coyote: Borges did produce Jason Campbell, who, while not the best QB, has seen NFL action. I am a follower of SC's on twitter, and hope he stays around these parts and delivers his knowlege and insight.
...is an odd criticism of Borges anyway, isn't it? Even if it were true.
As I recall, at one point during his time here there was precisely one offensive player in the NFL that had played for Rodriguez, and he had converted to fullback in the pros after playing defense at WVU.
The general opinion on the board about that fact, and a quite reasonable opinion if you ask me, was that it was pretty impressive work by RichRod to get that kind of offensive production for so many years out of fairly limited talent. Why isn't that also the view on Borges?
But what will gorgeous Al do without Space Coyote to defend him against all of us mental midgets? I mean we really showed our ignorance not understanding that 27 for 27 was brilliant play calling . If only we were more cerebral to comprehend the complexities of how to shit away a game.
"completely missing the point".
Show me the time that SC ever called it "brilliant" playcalling. I'll wait.
27 for 27! Penn State! Akron! Uconn! You guys, those are the only arguments we need! FIRE BORGESSSS!!!
You show me the time I ever said "FIRE BORGESSSS" and I will show you what you requested. Is that fair?
'general douchbaggery,' along with the others. If you are smarter than Borges, please give us all the details and illustrated justifications, not just the criticism.
Well who is going to defend 2nd and 12 now?
after I read your post.
I can't remember now but I'm like 95% figuratively sure that SC used this line sarcastically in his rant.
Well...I'd be bummed if he left the board. I don't necessarily agree with his aggregate opinion re: Borges. However, I do like some of the breakdowns and assessments he provides, and - I must admit - I have learned quite a bit from his contributions.
It's one thing to say: "I don't like Borges because he sucks." And, that really brings the overall content of the board down because it's inflammatory and uninformative.
It’s another thing to say: “I don’t trust Borges. His Resume seems hit-and-miss and inconsistent. I question some of the play calling he’s made, given the defensive alignments. And, I don’t think he’s a good player developer because I don’t see our offensive players improving.” Those are debatable points – all of which I’ve enjoyed reading SC’s commentary on.
So, SC – Please know that while I don’t always agree with you, I greatly appreciate your insight and knowledge.
Agreed, even if you don't share his viewpoint, having more knowledgeable folks on the board makes it such a better place. When I read really far down into the comments, it's usually because I'm looking for posts like SC's that give more details about what's going on at an advanced level but understandable to the layman like myself. Now, I think MGrowOld (or MGrowWorld as my brain reads it) raised a fair-seeming question asking if there's anything Borges does that he disagrees with, because everything he said seemed to be a bit one-sided. However, I think that was in response to the situation in which there was a flood of criticism against Borges.
I'd like to keep seeing his posts, but there's always his blog if he's done here.
Space Coyote IS Al Borges. They are both more knowledgeable than the nouveau pitchfork and torches MGoCrowd. I enjoy his perspective and would/will miss the insight.
Isn't great when you can write off those you disagree with as the "nouveau pitchfork and torches MGoCrowd". Or characterize those who might disagree with Space Coyote about Borges (or Lord be, even agree with Brian from time-to-time) as sheep. Of course the irony of such aspersions is that they occur in a thread chastizing those for doing the very same thing. Space Coyote is a great contributor, but this thread quickly devolved into name-calling by the Borges loyalists. And ancedotal stories about the opinions of random SEC fans doesn't pass for fact any more than the opinions it was intended to refute.
dont blame him. But i hope he continues his twitter because that is gold
I respect his football knowledge, but he is arrogant as hell. This is a blog..you are not getting professional opinions here. I don't need an expert to tell me most peoples opinions here suck. I don't care if some jagoff high school football coach thinks he knows everything and everyone else should shut the hell up. If he feels that strongly he should start his own blog and have a rule that no coaches can be criticized. You are all morons because blah blah execution blah blah experience.
Well said. He's been getting pretty snarky lately.
Who got stomped in an argument by him using things like "facts" and "reason."
But hey, embrace the sucky, unprofessional opinions if that's what interests you.
had an arguement with the guy. I have maybe responded to 1 or 2 of his posts max.. and never back and forth. I don't feel the need to force my opinions on others..which was my point. Your point..is spoken like somoene who doesn't have a clue what the hell he is talking about.
Sounds like you'd rather have short, misinformed, feelings in the moment, off the top of your head posts by people than well thought out discussion. To each their own.
I was editing it to take the last part out , but I changed my mind and put it back. Again, you have no clue what the hell you are talking about. Please keep making stupid assumptions though, that's a great contribution.
And left the typos in. In posts calling people stupid.
That's all. Word.
There are a disturbing collection of individuals who have never suffered an independent thought that want to laugh at Borges for running the ball with a lead. These are the same geniuses who ridiculed Charly Weiss for not running the clock during one of Michigan's epic ND comebacks. You can't have it both ways genius. Killing clock was the smart move. Sometimes crazy stuff just happens.
Thats the hard part about being a coach. At times you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I've stood on those sidelines before and had that helpless feeling as a coach because 1) you can't play for them 2) telling them what to do is only 20% of the battle. If Devin would've been out there slinging the ball around while playing with a late lead and threw a pick, that would've been Borges' fault too and to the fan base he's still an idiot. Lose-Lose. I guess thats why coaches don't read blog comments lol
actually throwing the ball to try to get a game winning first down was a smart move. it would have been wide open. however, weis tried to throw a long pass and score another TD in order to run up the score (imo) and he got burned. and deservedly so.
Your mature, thoughtful, detailed, knowledgeable posts would be greatly missed. Don't let a certain vocal contingent with none of these qualities run you off this board.
Before you were banned?
Ghost of, phonetics man, they are your friend
Attitudes are contagious. Those few emotional and ignorant fans rub off on others. While I havent been here for years, I've been here longer than you and I can tell you that the pessimistic feel of the board was not always the case. Its been transitioning towards that since Akron and has not stopped ever since. Even when we win, its just like we lost. This is why others are a lot more aggravated by it than you.
do you even remember the board during any of the RichRod years?
I'm glad you're qualified to get inside another person's head and distinguish if they're angry or upset.
There's a reason this thread hasn't been downvoted, most people here think Space Coyote is a level headed individual, well spoken individual who's opinions are well thought of around here, if he leaves it's just another istance of this blog getting to popular for its own good and bringing to low hanging fruit around (which is/has already happened.)
Come on. You think Space Coyote wrote that rant while having a good laugh? He explicity talks about being annoyed. You can't be annoyed without being upset and/or angry to at least some degree.
SC does not attempt to correct every person on the board. He chimes in when he is commenting in an educated and insightful fashion, and then periodically complains when the whining and complaining from persons with no apparent football knowledge or insight flood the board.
I LOVE that about him. Passion for informing is the THI*NG when it comes to blogging.
I can't fault him though, the board is literally obsessed with Borges and State. If you read the board for the first time, you'd probably think that Michigan is winless this year.
It's been said that the group of posters fanatically against Borges was small in comparision to the whole, but they were clearly the most outspoken. Space Coyote himself mentioned this problem back in the immediate wake of the PSU aftermath, but he continued to make it his mission to stand gaurd at the wall and fend off the same small sect of posters time after time. Serenity early in the aftermath led to the insanity that we just read in that post. So, if he has the interest in returning that you hope he does, then we either need a karma/points system back to stop people from just posting the kinds of things he made reference to over and over again, or he'll have to live with people being wrong on the internet. The karma and points are entirely meaningless, but man does it ever affect how people post on this board.
A few of those posters are obvious trolls,likely MSU or OSU fans pretending to be Michigan fans, but there also seems to be a contigent who've been around for several years, haven't posted much lately but got the Borg signal or something and are now activated and behaving in drone fashion to repeat the same mantras over and over about failure and doom.
Only 42 MGoPoints....
Watch out, all. The trolls have gone meta.
That part of the group is why I wanted to throw in the part about karma/points. It's changed how people post on this board and has predominantly affected people who have been around here before (well, I guess that's trivial. Can't really affect someone who came in afterwards. Anyways:). It's not new that people come back to this board en masse when Michigan football is back and especially when there are struggles to talk about. The thing that's new is the majority of the board can't weigh in on types of posts (see: The Rant) that they don't believe is up to the level of discourse they want to see on the board via karma or point votes. Last year after the ND game, people could down vote someone pushing the "bench Denard" idea in every thread days after the initial shock of the game wore off. But now that doesn't happen, and people continue to do it (in this case re: Borges), and the only "defense" has been people responding to it, which is something the majority won't always step in and do. Space Coyote essentially took on that task himself, and here we are.
While I think he's right that there's a contingent of the Butthurt Brigade that came out of the woodwork after PSU, it used to be that you could drive by neg people spouting stupidity who had no hope of being reasoned with. Or even people making negative but somewhat sound points over and over and over again. Now all you can do is argue with them, or let falsehoods stand. Most of us had given up on it, but SC tried to do it alone, and with more patience than most of us had. And probably has some worried if they stand up they'll be found to be a "negative influence" and banned.
Borges is a good OC not great but he went from Auburn to SD State after being out of coaching for 2 seasons. 75% of colleges may take him but I don't think an NFL team would want him coordinating their offense. And his longest tenure was Portland State at 6 years
Because he was the last bastion of reasonable defense on this board and Brian might as well declare the boards a free for all war zone. Since his "purge" he's empowered everyone to be assholes without retribution, and he's created the shitshow the board has become. He wanted a place for rational discussion of football but if he keeps letting guys like Space Coyote get driven off it's just monkeys throwing poo at each other. But Space Coyote didn't always agree with him so he probably doesn't care.
The question at hand could be which is better for the day-to-day operations of the site and the message board, quality or quantity.
The quantity of page clicks result in a larger paycheck, which is good for business in a sense. Lately, it seems like a lot of negativity has driven a lot of traffic for the site (example, the many Fire Borges Threads, and the "Purge" thread). As a result, a lot of valuable posters have gotten fed up trying to shout rational ideas/discussions over the simply stated 'fire borges" statements.
Quality: Using a self moderation system where the community can patrol the message board so that rational discussion of football can easily rid and discourage users who tend to inflame other, most rational contributors. As a consequence, there may be a slight loss in traffic to the site. The users who tend to provide insightful and thought provoking discussion/debates/ideas should have the louder voices in my opinion.
Self Moderation will make the mods jobs much easier since I can sense some burnout from a few of them. The lack of acknoweledgement of the community from Brian and lack of fixes to the board is starting to show.
I'm finding myself growing tired of the boards, too, for this very reason. Maybe it's always been this way, but it seems like more and more people are just taking up space here instead of trying to talk rationally about football. The lack of moderating by the group has taken a toll. I actually liked it when Brian got angry a few weeks ago and started banning people, but that was a short-lived attitude.
but this is a blog, not the Bible. This is the ultimate "free speech" arena. If SC wants to rant, so be it. If you read his posts they have plenty of reasoning included ... is there room for disagreement, absolutely. No one on the planet knows everything, and suggestions that you are the all-knowing giver of facts on football strategy is no way to prove a point.
I don't really think this is the ultimate free speech arena, though. This is a sports blog about Michigan, and there are lots of rules. If you can't post "OT" things during football season, it's reasonable to expect that there are going to be some other standards as well.
But I think the Mods do a pretty good job in regard to content related issues. We have all seen several threads be "dismantled" when they have crossed the "out of bounds" line (politics anyone?). This really seems more of an instance where SC decided enough was enough for him and voluntarily choose to suspend his postings ... isn't that his perogative? Why are we looking to blame anyone as a result ...
Good news for people who love bad news.
Yes, it's too bad. Before that "purge" there weren't any trolls or bickering here at all. It was just sunshine and lollipops. Damn you Brian!
If you're going to respond to every dumb person on the internet, your experience of it will be hell. Make your main point in reply to a post by Brian or whatever and then, if you wish, only engage in debate with people who are being reasonable and genuinely seeking answers. You're not going to change the trolls. A shit leopard can't change its spots.
At least we're not arguing about Rich Rod anymore, amirite!?
I don't really remember SpaceCoyote responding to many people with the "Borgess sux cuz h'es fat" type arguments. I could be wrong on that, but I don't think so. I think the whole point, and the reason there is such an outspoken sentiment backing him, is that shit has gotten ridiculous these past few weeks with comments that are nothing but negative for the sake of being negative.
I wish people that didn't find sports fun would give posting on a sports blog a rest. Newsflash: Michigan will lose to Ohio State again this century, basketball won't be winning every game by 73 and a relatively weak defense and young goaltending will lead to problems for hockey. It's fine to root for all of those to be false, but it's not worth the personal attacks on players, coaches or fellow fans and it's not worth bringing down the entire board in a sea of vitriol.
Had the equivalent of the VIP lounge at an airport, somewhere for the adults to talk and relax while the unwashed rabble hork down buffalo chicken wraps and wipe their fingers off on their xxl track suits, talking with their mouths full about knowing everything.
What's the entry criteria; I'm sold.
Eh, never mind. I don't want to be part of any club that would have me as a member.
I've an idea to join a club and beat you over the head with it.
I too find many comments on this board knee-jerk, lacking in insight and sometimes just stupid. My pet peeve are those who post 20-30 times on a single topic. But Jeezus, for the most part, I just ignore them, But some people, and Space Coyote often, cannot do that. Not every comment needs to be responded to. The need to do so implies its own form of arrogance and closed-mindedness.
Just here to sign the petition in support of Space Coyote.
His posts add a TON to this site, and I really don't feel that he comes across as arrogant or as a know-it-all.
"His posts add a TON to this site, and I really don't feel that he comes across as arrogant or as a know-it-all. "
Thats because you don't say random, non-sensical things that he's had to rebuttle and thus make you feel insecure about yourself. A hit dog will holler.
Space Coyote, I appreciate you dude.
Space Coyote but also Reader 71 and a few others have brought a welcome relief of reason and sanity to some of the recent threads.
And I admire them more for their persistence. I just don't have the energy to fight the overwhelming negativity most of the board and front page has generated recently. Those two posters have done more than their share.
And thanks to the OP for posting this. SC in particularly has been far more well thought out and far more helpfully than nearly everyone on the Borges hatred bandwagon.
...I was this blog's version of Space Coyote. I, too, got fed up with idiocy and snark. I had a decent amount of diaries, and I decided to delete them all.
Now, we can all sit here and say, "Interwebs gonna interweb," and that's largely true. The problem is that this site claims to be a non-mlive type of place, and a lot times over the years rational thought has been deleted while douchey, snarky, non-value add comments dominate the content of the board and comments to main page posts and diaries.
To Brian's credit, he's come a long way in his football knowledge, even went to a coaches' clinic to learn more ball. How many bloggers of teams have done that? Does Brian have a lot to learn? Sure. But, as we've all seen, even some coaches have more to learn. I'm not saying Brian knows as much (or even close) as coaches. What I'm saying is that he's doing a good job of always trying to learn more. I always found him to be open and receptive to listening.
I think if Space Coyote wants to make comments that are free from idiocy, he go start his own blog and he can delete whatever he wants. I think he's spent enough time here that doing his own blog wouldn't be more time-consuming. If mgoblog had an x's and o's guy on staff, I don't know how much Brian would add, other than turning into Ronald Bellamy's Underachieving All-Stars.
I disagree with SC about Borges. His gameplan and risk aversion in the second half I believe cost us the game at PSU. I'm not saying the decision in OT in those situations were against the odds but we shouldn't have even been in that situation in the first place (aside from the TWO delay of game blunders). If we came out with the same mindset as Ohio State did against PSU or that we did vs Indiana, we beat PSU handily. I may not be a coach but I watched all 3 games and we certainly did not exploit PSUs defense in the way we should have (bubble screen WAS the answer, at least part of it). OSU did. We aren't as good as OSU, so maybe we only win 42-14 instead of 63-14. Borges may be brilliant but his brilliance costs us games from time to time. My opinion.
I agree. But if we don't spike the ball or get a delay of game and hit the FG before the touch back punt leading to the 80 yd drive, we wouldn't have this convo. Similarly if we exploited the ridiculous cushion their secondary was giving us like OSU we are up a ton where none of that stuff even comes into play. I get we were at PSU, etc but I don't think that's worth 40 pts.
i actually had a civil exchange with SC. and i enjoy his thoughts, though i don't agree entirely with his opinions. but i largely agree with your point here. imo, we have seen borges call some great games, IU, osu at home, neb at home, iowa at home. but he has also had some stinkers; primarily on the road: osu, iowa, nw (first half), msu, nd, ala. i don't think it should be a 50/50 success rate for the UM OC. he gets paid a lot of dough to be more consistent than that.
Here's the thing, though: there will be people who at some point this year call for John Beilein's head. Michigan will lose to MSU or Wisconsin and then "he can't coach Big Ten basketball" and "we should be doing more with all this talent," etc...People here are always going to say stupid shit - I probably do sometimes - because we're a lot more passionate than we are knowledgable. And people are going to be dicks to varying degrees, because this is the internet. This place has sharp elbows, and you have to deal with that.
Have a pretty good idea how he feels.
Good posters sometimes get fed up.
I really want him to stay. I replied directly to his rant by trying to say what I tried to say here, which is that you've just got to let a bunch of stuff go (something I am still working on myself)...The criticism that Coach Rod received here (some of it deserved in content but not tone) and the criticism that even Coach Beilein has received has burned into my brain the belief that this place will never be a tranquil resting place in which we do nothing but civilly exchange well-thought-out ideas. SC needs to narrow his focus as far as what he pays attention to on the board - and I advise that in the spirit of friendship. I haven't intended anything I've said as a knock against him.
Is as short lived as yours was.
We need more like you guys, not less.
Anybody who calls/called for Beilein's head should be banned, period. No questions asked. There's no need for that kind of idiocy on the board. You're right that it will happen this year, and it should be nipped in the bud.
You just have to ignore the dumb posts. I enjoy reading space coyotes posts. He seems very knowledgeable and I hope he stays!
I love space coyote's analysis.
I also happen to think Borges is a great OC, who is particularly hamstrung by the turrible OL recruiting under RR. Even Brian saw this coming, and no one should be surprised by it.
Fortunately, saner heads (i.e., Brandon and Hoke and Mattison) will prevail. Borges isn't going anywhere.
However, the discourse and content on the board definitely is going down. I've never really cared about the lack of negbangs, but I think they are badly needed at this point.
I do want space coyote to stay, although you have to have a thick skin and be ready to ignore the lunatic fringe.
Though one thing that's getting lost a little here is that 100% of college football coaches "know more" or have more literal knowledge about the details of football than any of the people posting or writing for the site. But that doesn't mean that some coaches don't fail or underperform, and it doesn't necessarily take someone with an equally detailed knowledge of offensive line foot positioning or coverage terminology to make a judgment about their success or failure or to make an insightful point about their style.
You don't have to know how to pick the right camera lens or have written a subplot to know that the movie you're watching isn't very good.
(FWIW, my own position, which I reserve the right to change constantly as events warrant, is that Borges is smart and obviously capable but a little too stubborn.)
re: movies. we've seen a few rocky's under borges. unfortuneately, we've seen a lot of rocky V's as well.
I was looking for someone to make this point. I'm sure most people know someone in their respective fields of employment that is high ranking, far more knowledgeable about the subject matter than 95% of the public, maybe even generally respected, but also terrible at his or her job.
Second, you don't have to necessarily have the same level of knowledge as professionals in a particular field to be able to identify someone who is not good at his or her job. In fact, I'd argue that being in the field often hinders some people's abilty to objectively consider a fellow professional's job performance.
I have no problem with SC correcting technical mistakes that he can correct based on professional knowledge. But people shouldn't act like others can't reasonably believe Al Borges isn't good at his job (despite the inartful and stupid ways some use to explain that belief) because Borges obviously knows more about football than pretty much everyone on this board. After all, Borges was essentially fired by Auburn despite his initial success there.
As an aside, I agree with SC's main point that people shouldn't read too much into press conference quotes. Yes, the post-PSU one had my blood boiling a little bit, but some of the other comments people harp on have way, way too much read into them.
is one I agree with.
Even as someone who has been highly critical of Borges, I agree that the Borges hate has reached unreasonable levels. That said, trying to keep message board posters from saying dumb or uninformed things is a Sysiphisian task.
BOOM! Spelling Nazi'd!
I kid. I kid because I love. I'm a little sour on Borges post PSU but he has put together some great work here and there. I thought the South Carolina gameplan was nothing short of brilliant.
Personally, I hope he continues to contribute here. If he feels he can't, then Ill jut read his stuff at his own blog. I like when anybody can come with an informed analysis, and he certainly contributes a lot. That said, maybe he just needs to step away for a while. I do when the stupid gets to be too much.
I love having Space Coyote's comments, but if he's going to be an Internet Sports Guy he can't let anonymous ignorant comments bother him so badly. I think he's right. Maybe he should take a break.
From the posts I've read Space Coyote seems to know his stuff and his posts appear to be well thought out. I don't agree with everything that he says but he gives good food for thought. That being said this is a message board. Peoples opinions will differ. The quoted post sounds like someone having a breakdown because people don't like Al Borges. Who gives a crap. Whether they are right or wrong does it really matter? I think a little perspective is in order. I'm looking forward to watching the game on Saturday. I can't wait. Anyone else hate bye weeks?
SC isn't "having a breakdown because people don't like Al Borges." The problem isn't just people who don't like Borges. The problem is people who irrationally hate Al Borges, want him fired, without much in the way of analysis or reason. I sure can't speak for SC, but I'd bet money that he can easily deal with reasoned opposition to Borges. Unfortunately, way, way too much of the opposition is not reasoned, thoughtful, sane, sensible, intelligible, etc. Hence the breakdown.
There was a short clip posted last week from south park . . . "boo wendy testeburger." It describes too much of the discourse here, especially that against Borges.
I think what happens is, once somebody declares "Borges ought to be fired," then that person has crossed some kind of mental Rubicon and thereafter tends to interpret everything through the Borges-must-go lens. If something bad happens, it's Borges' fault, of course. But if things go right, they went right despite Borges. Offense scores 5 TDs in 8 possessions? They got lucky. Offense scores 63 points and breaks all-time school yardage? It was against a lousy defense. If Michigan's offense has another good game this week, I am sure we will see some new rationalizations for why Borges must still be fired all the same.
My God, why do I write 15,000 word diatribes when I could just have said that?
Of course, this is a pretty anti-Borges blog, so it makes sense that the comments will be anti-Borges.
There are people poo-pooing the Indiana performance, as if Michigan has never faced a worse defense in the history of the program. It is entirely irrational.
People on this site have read a few UFRs and looked at some graphs created in less than 10 minutes and now think that they know all there is to football. Pathetic, really.
"Hey Brian, you ever offer your UFR's to the coaches? Because it seems like it'd be really useful for them to have something like this." And do it completely seriously.
I just never see comments like this. Maybe it's because I don't look for them, but maybe you see them because you do. They're certainly not representative of the entire comments section.
I do see you and spacecoyote complain about these alleged comments. I've noticed you both rarely address posters or posts specifically. I find that strange on your part as you're not one to duck a confrontation, but on this subject you clearly prefer to moan generally.
Mostly those are comments/posters that you would look stupid/wound-tightly/draconian for calling out or taking mod action on individually, but are noticeable in the aggregate.
But there are people who take that shit that seriously.
And I think I did address them. And I'm much more of a dick about it than Space Coyote. So I was contributing ot making the boards a much more miserable place. I'm still not sure I'm a net gain, but I've tried to not argue every stupidity endlessly. Back when it kept track of such things my upvote to downvote ratio was a huge spread, because I didn't downvote things. But it was calmer for the board to just neg somethng that was so stupid it didn't deserve a response. We can't do that anymore. Was healthier for me, and certainly less noise for the boards. Notice how we don't have long multi--day back and forths with guys like Section 1? Because there's no point in it unless there's something said that is outiright false. That type of thing you have to counter, because people hear it and repeat it over and over and it goes from myth to fact. (See things like "Dee Hart left after we fired Rich"). The problem is people will take a nugget off the front page that is actually true, but ignore the other paragraphs of analysis that went with it, and just repeat that part. Probably because the front page has gotten in the habit of that almost eschewing further analysis for memes.
Sometimes I can't help myself, but I try and let more things go just because it's not really making it better for anyone else around here to have everything be an argument. Make 'em laugh rather than groan.
There's also a wonder what the point is when guys like chitownblue get the ziggy for being an abrasive counter, but abrasively towing the company line gets ignored....
I feel you with regard to all of this.
there are a ton of posters who played high school football, but never read any of the UFRs, Space Coyote's analysis, Magnus' opinions, Mathlete posts, Chris Brown's breakdowns...
...and stick to the rote "you don't understand you've never played/coached before, trust the coaches, you guys who are critical don't know what you're talking about, this is their job, they have millions of dollars riding on this."
Like it's impossible for coaches to not be the very best, and not take advantage of all available information. And yet NFL coaches still regularly opt to punt from the 35 on 4th and 2.
Who is going to chase the space roadrunner if space coyote leaves? I appreciate the insight he brings to the table, but he has to understand some people run on a lot of emotion, and will continue to do so because that is the way they are wired. That being said, keep doing what you're doing Space Coyote. Maybe we should all just calm down and reflect that we are of the same fandom.
Space will be nothing without you.
"Maybe I should take a break from these boards, from these sites, and let it just degrade into idiocracy."
Jeebus, speaking of "unentitled arrogance"... so Space Coyote is the only thing standing heroically like the lonely protester in Tiananmen Square between the ignorant hordes and a civilized, entertaining, informative MGoBlog? Gee, whatever you do, don't shrug, Mr. Atlas. I enjoy the content of most of SC's posts, but could we just get the guy a cross so he can climb up and nail himself to it?
This just in: the internet is full of stupid people making inane comments. You can:
A. Try to argue with each and every one of them until they are swayed by your eminent reason
B. Post good, solid comments and let them stand on their own merit. Paraphrasing both Portia in the Merchant of Venice and Willy Wonka, "So shines a good [internet comment] in a weary world." Just post, let it suffer the slings and arrows, and quit trying to win every pissing contest.
C. Turn off the computer and go walk the dog. That's what I do when I occasionally see someone characterize "Godfather III" as a worthy finale. Fuck you, no it wasn't, Coppola made it for the money, and it sucked.
Also, I really dig the Simpson's avatar you (Space Coyote) post with, so I hope to keep seeing it.
Godfather III was the best of the Godfathers.
For the dog poop.
It insists upon itself.
He was getting pretty insistent anyway.
Are other people's epinions worthy of such drama?
For the life of me, I'll never understand people who announce their departure from message boards.
For the life of me, I cannot remember...what made us think that we were wise and we'd never compromise...
For the life of me, I cannot believe we'd ever die, for these sins. We were merely freshmen.
I cannot believe we'd ever doubt, 40 cents, we we're nearly Freshman.
That or something to the effect, was me, until the internet and easy lyrics.
has leveled the playing field. Three months ago, if Gustavo told Space Cowboy to leave, he'd be -1'd and grayed out to where it's as though he didn't exist, but or a barfly to be swept aside. The posts telling him to leave in return would be +5'd, and a sense of stability would return.
Now anyone's click counts as much as the next guys, so most have devolved to shouting matches back and forth.
Those comments are reserved for posters who join, offer nothing, and throw crap at the walls. Not respected posters. I think I took it at face value. I don't want anyone who's gained a trusted reputation and contributes positively here to leave, and I can't really relate to the position of disagreeing with that.
Edit: btw, I read the first post where you said that- I didn't read through the whole thread. And perhaps you didn't express yourself as you intended in your first post. But I think it's safe to say, a bit more understanding toward contributors like SC is appreciated than came off originally.
You are the worst.
I think people that don't understand why this stuff would bother S.C. are missing the point. It's not a difference of opinions of Al Borges that's the problem; it's disrespect for what goes into performing the job of offensive coordinator, or of football coach generally.
I've found myself imagining a reality show where random internet dude is followed around by a camera while he works, whatever his job might be. Maybe somebody that used to work in the industry provides some dumbed-down commentary so people in the audience can flatter themselves that they must know something about the work because they can follow the commentary (sort of your industry's equivalent of Gary Danielson, or if you're lucky maybe you get a Gruden). Then we all sit around in front of our TVs talking about what an ignoramus random internet guy is at his job that in reality we know very little about.
As a general rule, people that do something for a long time get to know something about it. I might like beer and have an opinion about what's good and what isn't, but somebody that's been brewing for decades is going to be better than I am at diagnosing what's wrong or right with it--is it ingredients, or a crappy job by the brewer, or just a matter of style preference? It's true for pretty much anything--there probably isn't a single poster here that knows more about my job than I do, and the same's true for everyone else.
You run into asshats like this out in the world, that think they can walk into a business and immediately know what's going on on every single desk better than the person that's been sitting there doing the work for months or years. Then there's people that come in to manage and the first thing they do is try to learn each job from the person that does it, because only then do they know enough to be able to offer any constructive criticism.
This board's been overrun by the first group, and their particular target is a guy that performs at a pretty high level in S.C.'s line of work. Is it any wonder he's irritated by it?
You might not hear much as a college football coach because of the noise, being in the box, etc. But I can say that as a high school coach, I hear some ridiculously stupid and ignorant things coming from fans at times. They have no idea of the rules, the injuries, the discipline, the plays you can run against certain defenses, the way kids perform in practice, etc.
Last week, after we forced a turnover, I yelled "Let's go, offense!" Some guy yelled from the fence, "Get your head in the game, Coach! We're on defense!"
The wife and kids.
You know exactly what's gone into each decision because you live with it 24/7, and what you don't understand at the time you find out about during the debriefing afterward. But during the game you sit there in the stands listening to people bellow things that make no sense, and when it gets personal it's hard to just sit there but of course it isn't your place to say anything.
At some point I realized that that's what sports is, for some people: a couple of hours spent anonymously in a crowd, where you can say anything you want without fear of social repercussions and you can take out the accumulated frustrations of the week on somebody--a referee, a coach, a player, it doesn't really matter who, but you get to do to them what your boss has done to you. I think that's why out in the world when something goes wrong the first thing you do is try to identify the problem and fix the process, but among sports fans the first solution that comes to mind is FIRE
CARR GERG RICHROD BORGES.
I suppose it's sort of like the internet.
It is very much like the internet. I think participating in this message board has helped me have thicker skin in regard to football, and vice versa. There are a lot of a) stupid people in the world and b) people without filters.
Last week, after we forced a turnover, I yelled "Let's go, offense!" Some guy yelled from the fence, "Get your head in the game, Coach! We're on defense!"
I am sorry Magnus, I was very drunk...
"It's not a difference of opinions of Al Borges that's the problem; it's disrespect for what goes into performing the job of offensive coordinator, or of football coach generally."
I just don't get the need to defend a profession as though it's your family name.
There are lots of idiots in the world - and I'm sure of them have and espouse highly erroneous information/opinion about my profession.
I could let that bother me, or spend time trying to correct it... but I ain't got time for that.
It's like allowing other people to offend you, it's a CHOICE you make.
Space Coyote is making an argument for rational debate. He may be clearly on one side of the Borges debate, but his post is in favor of reason regardless of sides (at least that's the benefit of the doubt I would give him).
A lot of people in this thread are using the fact that he's threatening to leave to somehow prove that he's right about Borges.
He may not actually be right. Borges may be a mediocre OC. There are a lot of facts and evidence to support that argument.
But whether or not Borges is a good OC really shouldn't be the take away point here, and i think it weakens the point of the rant when a lot of people in this thread convert it to arm their own pro-Borges agenda (which, often times, is as ill-informed and armchair as the very anti-Borges opinions that irritate SC).
I'd venture to say it's not really about Borges at all. SC is a coach of some sort. Of course he'd be upset if someone who knows very little about the game (these guys don't even try, they offer nothing) rag on our OC. Not about anything in particular. Just that he's absolutely brain-dead. People literally think Borges is stupid. I'd imagine it being very similar to a union auto worker listen to a guy at the bar talking about how all union auto workers do is get high on the job and ruin the American auto industry.
"I'd imagine it being very similar to a union auto worker listen to a guy at the bar talking about how all union auto workers do is get high on the job and ruin the American auto industry."
In both cases it's silly to get emotional/angry about.
SC keep your ass here. A word of advice: don't reply/comment as often as you do and when you clearly aren't going to change someones mind, stop. I think it'll help your sanity. Your sanity is needed around here.
Nothing to add here just trying to get another cherished MGoBlog point added to my point total. You see, how I interact with my wife and son, how I perform at work, how I get involved at church, and whether I beat my dog or not are all dictated based on my emotional reaction to how this blog responds to college students playing games where none of my money or effort is being directly affected. Glad you all understand and will be more considerate next time.
...there has been more concentrated idiocy on this site than in the rest of the time I've been reading it, and that includes the "CC" period. I mean, at least then people felt the need to make rational and substantiated arguments from positions of at least some knowledge. Imagine that!
Space Coyote is an exception. He is one of a small number of people that has brought the level of discourse up since PSU. Love his articles on Maize n' Brew as well. Don't always agree with him, but always respect his arguments.
i done seen some things in my day
Always great to see the Cone avatar.
Space Coyote's frustration is related to the general decline in quality on the board. I hope the Brians and Heikos consider tinkering with the voting rules to address this
It would be a shame if some of the idiots on this board drove him off as he is one of the few people on this board that actually knows the nuances of football and uses facts and logic to back up his arguements. The world needs more people like Space Coyote
I like SC and hope he sticks around. I've had reasoned back and forths with him where I actually learned something. I agree that he probably just needs to let some of the venting go rather than crusade on every Borges post.
That said, "you guys just don't understand the context of the worst rushing performance in michigan history" was probably not the best line of argument to assuage the anti-Borges crowd ;)
Amen. It's like when the ESPN boards took away anonymous posting via the Facebook integration, people just moved here to spout their idiocy.
I appreciate Space Coyote and agree with everything he said in that post.
That is all I have to say on the matter.
Losing Space Coyote as a contributor would be to lose valuable and knowledgeable insight into the mechanics and strategy of football. His work contributes value to the board in a way that few others do, but it seems that in the last few weeks, value is the last thing some people around here have wanted. That's a bloody shame really.
For myself, I enjoy his breakdowns (here and over at Maize'n'Brew) for their thoroughness and their readability. I learn something I didn't know about the game before or didn't appreciate each time, and I find that very refreshing, far more so than lot what he termed the "hurr durr Borges dumb" camp.
As for the Borges hate, count me in the crowd of people that, while critical of individual decisions, thinks he is a pretty good OC overall. As others have mentioned here, the level of the hate seems unreasonable from some (and some of the "concern trolls" have been "dealt with"), and in most cases, the basis for that hate is unfounded, or at least not well-reasoned.
I heartily endorse Space Coyote's continued presence here, in other words.
Breeds negativity, so the stupid shit written on here can effect ones mind! He just needs a mental health break!
I appreciate SC's contribution to the board, but I still disagree with him, generally, about Borges. Just because SC is a coach and most of us aren't, he's automatically right about everything football-related?
Forget the PSU game...can anyone really argue that Borges put our kids in a position to win against OSU last year? I'm ok with losses that result from us being an inferior team, or our kids making mistakes. But when coaches don't give our kids a chance to succeed, it drives me nuts.
One of SC's sticking points is also that "because Borges has been around for a long time, he knows what he's doing." Even if I didn't know the difference between football and baseball, I could tell you that sometimes that doesn't mean jack shit.
This has been my one issue as well: the presumption that because person x has more real-world knowledge about coaching, his opinion supersedes others. Coaches can be wrong, and while Borges is a perfectly competent OC, perfectly competent OCs can call bad games. Was it as bad as 27 for 27 made it out to be? No. But there seems to be a counter-factual out there in which running Fitz and Green for less than a yard a carry worked within the flow of an offense, which I'm having a hard time buying.
But I wanted to say that Space Coyote brings something to this board that in my opinion would be hard to replace. He is insightful, uses common sense, and has an understanding for the how and the why when explaining x's and o's. I truly hope that he stays here, and continues to bring his thoughts to the board.
Please bring back negs Brian, for the sake of everyone here and the sanity of this board.
I upvoted the OP b/c the board is better with the Coyote around. With that said, I don't entirely agree with his rant. To the extreme anti-Borges posters, yes, I agree. But it almost seems as if he is saying we shouldn't criticize Borges much b/c he is experienced and knows more about football than we do. Of course he does, but his end-of-game PSU calls were HORRENDOUS, and while only 14 of the 27 for 27 came in the first 56 minutes, I, for one, am complaining about the last 13 runs in the last 4 minutes plus OT. Unbelievable play calling.
And unfortunately, there have been a couple other games that just make no sense (OSU 2nd half last year).
While Borges knows tons, that does not mean that he is automatically different than the many other football coaches throughout the country that do suck for one reason or another, and should be fired. I'm not saying that is Borges, but I am saying that it is not an impossible idea.
SC just needs to do a weekly diary a counterpoint to Brian on Tues or Wed and leave it at that. Some weeks he might agree with Brian, others he may not. Either way he can say his piece in one post, perhaps respond to comments in that thread and leave it at that.
or he can just leave. The internet will go on.
I have gone back and forth with him in the past bc we disagree on something. It happens. I don't take it personally and he shouldn't either. Going around trying to change 100 posters mind every week one post at a time will drive you crazy. so stop doing it.
Forum posts should always be viewed as standing in front if a group of children. You hope that some of the kids will grasp the concept, but you are guaranteed to hear a lot of crying, moaning, and temper tantrums. Explains why we show the muppets after a win and kittens after a loss.
life "queer baits"? Please expand further upon your insightful post...
find a better way to complain rather than making gay references.
You're someone I would really like to spend some quality time with.
Really, let's get together. It would be so much fun. When are you available?
Are you like, pretending to be Kenny Powers or something? You realize that character is a joke, right?
You seem well balanced.
That is very interesting. Tell me more.
Which gulf? There are quite a few in the world.
I've always heard the heat and humidity can take its toll on a person. Hang in there.
I have not even read ten posts from you, but I am honestly wondering how you ever got to 239 without getting banhammered to the Gulf of Bolivia.
Well, with out Bleednblue's wonderful posts interspersed for context, this section of comments now seems like a bit of an inappropriate conversation to be had on this message board..
Pining? Not the word I would use.. over a user who contributes to this board in a positive way. I certainly wouldn't "pine" over a user who first insults the site and then says "queer baits." You would see a post this caliber over at RCMB.
I didn't need clarification. I said that pining wasn't the word I would use.
And you're not helping your case.
...and your comment is a perfect example of why this site is sliding downard, too.
I'm not sure what a vaccuum is, but regardless, my site really has nothing to do with the discussion here. I don't think anyone brought it up but you. You're just throwing out random insults because you have nothing else to say about the topic at hand.
...and it goes further off topic.
I'm done here.
Not with this site, of course. Just with you.
I liked you better when you were on thorazine.
I'd call you the biggest MGoAsshole of all time, but you would not doubt wear it like a badge.
Edit: this post was to bleednblue, who has been rightfully vaporized. Well done Mod.
And now it looks like Magnus and I are having weird conversations with ourselves.
Obvious troll is obvious.
On the ridiculously small chance he is not a troll, I'd say there's a 0.01% chance he was alive for a game coached by his avatar.
Whatever Space Coyote complains about pales in comparison to threads like this.
As one of the more vocal posters unhappy with Borges I have had several discussions with Space on the topic over the past several weeks. While I respect his opinion I do not necessarily share it, but I agree this board will be a poorer place if he stops contributing. I think one of the more enjoyable aspects of a board such as this is the debate itself with knowledgable posters such as Space.
I asked the question yesterday in the Hoke presser thread about his (to me anyways) seemingly blanket endorsement of all things Borges and he gave a reasoned and rational defense of his position. Just like a week or so ago when I had a similar debate with The Last Hoke on the same topic and at the end I had to agree with many of his points. That's what I thought a fourm such as this was largely for - the give and take of opinions and ideas with those who agree but just as importantly, those who do NOT agree, with our stated position.
I went back and read the thread that upset SC and unless posts were deleted I'm not quite sure which comment or poster was his "straw the broke the camels back" but if it was simply his inability to convice posters such as me that we should support Borges and his offensive game planning I think that's sad.
Since I was mentioned in his subject about his post not being directed at me, I'd like to say it wasn't my intention to start the huge Borges debate again. I was simply making a point about his several mentions of "minimizing the damage" and my assumption was taken out of context.
Space Coyote is one of my favorite posters here. I'm a schematic person myself and can sit and watch film for hours at a time. So SC's posts and insight are particularly interesting to me. It would be a shame to see him stop posting here.
People are entitled to their opinion.. And I'm upset about the outcome of the PSU game as well.. but the "BLADFSDFWERSF FIRE BORGES" comments are growing old.
Oh, and since we're on SC, I'd like to mention that he and LSAClassof2000's picture are similar in color schemes. So when I'm scrolling through a thread I often stop at both of their posts.
are always appreciated here. I can't break down plays like SC can, which is why I appreciate reading his (and Brian's) thoughts.
Here's one thing I DO know from watching 45 years football. Unless you have a DOMINANT running game (we don't), you won't run the football when the other team KNOWS 100% that's what you're going to do. I was miffed about the stubborn running in the final drive in regulation against PSU, the one where we punted from midfield. That game should have been won in Q4, and it's on the play calling, IMO. I am NOT in the "fire Borges" camp though.
You didn't have to be a football wizard to know what you saw happening there, and those of us who bitched about it were within our rights. Also, I've watched enough night games to know that you LOSE the close ones on the road unless you make the kill shot when you have the chance.
All that said, again I really do appreciate SC's breakdowns and insights. I'd never argue those things with him or question his knowledge, but certain things are obvious even to regular fans.
Don't Space Coyote. U know your shit man. We appreciate your insight
I appreciate the support, but in all honesty, I agree with the people that say this thread is unnecessary. The point of my rant (and remember, it was just that, a rant) wasn’t even “I’m leaving for good”. The last line was actually about being done with that thread, because I was tired of arguing my point repetitively to people that didn’t want to listen, so I took many of the advice given on this board before it was even given. I’ve let many things slide, didn’t reply to many comments. That’s all fine and dandy. At the end of the day if I left this board it would fall anywhere from virtually insignificant to minor. This isn’t my blog. The top draw, as it should be, will always be Brian. I’m not so narcissistic as to believe my personal presence on this board is worthy of a post appreciating me, is worthy of half the praise I get. The fact of the matter is that I’ve coached high school football and studied the game from a coach’s POV since I was in middle school, because it was “what I wanted to be when I grew up.” So I have a fairly decent understanding of how the game works, I have a love for coaching and football, and this board is a way for me to do that while I can’t coach.
I’m certainly far from an end all, be all talking point about football. This is why my contention has and will never be “trust Borges because he’s forgotten more than you know” or simply “he’s been around for 20 years so shut up”. While both of those statements are true, in and of themselves they are fairly meaningless. Those statements are also true if they’re directed at me. Those statements are also true if they were about Rich Rod and directed to anyone on this board. So those statements include completely different schemes and philosophies and all that jazz. In the end, neither coach, scheme, philosophy is completely right and certainly neither is completely wrong.
I’ve been labeled as a Borges apologist, which isn’t really true, but I don’t care. In questions asked of me, I’ve answer that I don’t think Borges is a great OC, I think he’s merely above average. MGrowOld (I believe) asked me if there was anything I disagreed with Borges on or would do differently, I had a nice long reply saying that there is a lot I would do differently and disagreed on because of personal preference, but the point stands that it doesn’t make his preference wrong.
So that brings me back to what the whole rant was about, and what my argument has been about from the beginning. I don’t mind people liking the spread more, absolutely no issue with that what so ever, I think the spread is a hell of an offense. I have no people wanting bubble screens, great play when practiced in my opinion. I have no problem with people saying why they didn’t like certain game plans. I have no problem with a lot of things some people think I do, because frankly, a lot of it I personally agree with. I have a problem with people taking an answer from a press conference and then acting like Borges is a brain-dead fool when his answer is the same answer almost every other coordinator would give under the same circumstances. I have a problem with not even attempting to understand his perspective, why he called the plays he did, why he had the game plan he had, and acting like he’s so stupid that he has absolutely no clue while the obvious is so obvious that any and everyone else can see it. People have constantly brought up the argument about how they can make the argument because play calling isn’t really that hard. Well, they can argue things, they can have a preference for play calls, but their logic works against them. They are right, in the grand scheme of things calling plays is very simple. It’s the most predictable part of the job because to a large extent, you actually have control of the pieces (unlike Borges’s joke about not punching someone in 20 years, which someone also took in a snide way). It’s not all that difficult to call a play and think it should be executed, set up another play, and to take advantage of things the defense gave you. Those are all things Borges did. Maybe he should have called a few less runs with Fitz. Maybe he should have done a few things differently within his game plan, but the play calling itself is far from the issue. Blame the game plan that was set before the game, blame the execution which is still highly on the coaching staff, blame so many other things, but it seems to always go back to the simplest of things: play calling.
Look, I’m an engineer with a master’s degree. I’m a rocket scientist. I still make simple math mistakes sometimes, it happens. But if you’re telling me that if I make simple math mistakes time and time again, if I continually do the simple parts of my job wrong, that I’m going to keep my job, or keep getting new jobs, and someone, one of the thousands of other people that want my job, won’t get it, you’re wrong. There are literally thousands of people that would take Borges’s job right now if given the opportunity. Some of them are in coaching all across America at various levels, including DI, DII, DIII college coaches, many high school coaches, etc. To insist that Borges’s problem is that he can’t do the absolutely simplest part of his job, well, do you not see how that is insulting? Do you honestly not see how the constant comments that insist that he is a complete moron and often fail to substantiate their argument or not only don’t have a basis, but don’t have a foundation or backing at all, can be grating (and trust me, regardless of how many I skip over, there are still a lot lately). He’s not an idiot. Disagree with him, fine. But the constant twisting of his words and the simple-mindedness that goes into a lot of the insults, and to some degree, the at least indirect insults that have been put on me, have been tiring.
FWIW, I have absolutely no issue with Brian. I’ve said this to multiple people. I believe Brian has a preference, which is absolutely fine. Brian also backs up a lot of his preference. Brian knows more about football than 99% of people. He’s perfectly capable of forming opinions, and 95+% of the time I agree with him, which at most just adds another data point. There are the other times I disagree with him, and that’s fine, we both have opinions on the matter, different preferences, different ways of looking at things. I took issue at some point last week with something he said, and that’s about it. Brian is not to blame in this. All Brian has done was try to explain things from his perspective and give the resource (this blog) for which to do that. But there are certain groups of people that parrot him, and often times only parrot the conclusions or some of the tongue and cheek comments he makes. Brian himself said something along the lines of “I don’t even care if it’s a bubble screen or not, that’s just an example”, but people missed that. They missed the reasoning behind him using that example. And instead they just parrot “bubble screen” (this is just an example).
So that’s where I stand on this whole thing, this is a long post, and yada, yada, yada, there was a lot to say. I appreciate the support, but this isn’t necessary. When I was writing my posts for other blogs last night I did decide I was probably going to take a break from the comments here for a while, that’s fine. I’ll be back at some point hopefully. Hopefully by then some of the problems I have with the comments section right now will be minimalized. The problem isn’t other opinions, it isn’t debate, it isn’t disagreeing with me. I hope that point is clear. The problem I have with a lot of this stems from the other things I talked about.
Also, my rant helped me pick up about 50 new followers, so that was kind of a cool, very unintended side affect.
You need a Snickers. Halloween is tomorrow, but you can have one today.
So does this mean you'll still have a been with me before a Browns game someday?
Seriously though - I hope you know I didnt ask that question yesterday to be sarcastic and I did appreciate your answer. I just honestly wanted to know.
And frankly, I think you're a good poster that I can have good discussion with. I think a "been" (I know you're saying beer here, but I'm probably catching you during an edit) with you before a Browns game would be good sometime
Let me know the next time you're going. Jill (my avatar) and I will be there this week and prolly pre-gaming at the Winking Lizard off East 9th.
I copy and pasted your e-mail if you wish to delete it from the thread for spam, whatever issues/reasons. Will do next time I'm going to a game.
Now that Space Coyote is back (never left), we don't need BLEEDNBLUE anymore! Woo HOOO!
"I have a problem with not even attempting to understand his perspective, why he called the plays he did, why he had the game plan he had, and acting like he’s so stupid that he has absolutely no clue while the obvious is so obvious that any and everyone else can see it."
thinking this way, even if you ultimately still think that doing X or Y was a mistake, is both more interesting and less frustrating as a fan.
FWIW, I enjoy reading your input to educate myself, and i realize there's a lotof shit on the board, but my response to not really knowing about what Borges does in the realm of "right and wrong" is normally to just not say anything. I think there is a great deal of value in having educated responses that disagree with Brian's points. It helps us make a more educated decision in our criticisms one way or the other.
I'd wager that the bullshit is the loud minority of followers, and some of them are probably just falling into the mindset that the anonymity of the internet allows you to just blow your shit everywhere as a catharsis with no reprimand.
"Look, I’m an engineer with a master’s degree. I’m a rocket scientist. I still make simple math mistakes sometimes, it happens. But if you’re telling me that if I make simple math mistakes time and time again, if I continually do the simple parts of my job wrong, that I’m going to keep my job, or keep getting new jobs, and someone, one of the thousands of other people that want my job, won’t get it, you’re wrong."
See - this is where you and I disagree.
I'm also an engineer.
I've seen people in large, profitable, multinational corporations continually do the simple parts of their job wrong - and keep their job. I've seen less qualified people hired over more qualified. I've seen UNqualified people hired over qualified.
The idea that any job in any field is a true and pure meritocracy just ain't reality. There is a strong correlation, but it's far from tight or absolute.
Hopefully you're back for talk about the Michigan St. game. I know that sounds like a terrible idea after the past couple weeks but we're either going to be ecstatic or severly depressed and Borges will be a big part of that (oh, and the execution of the players and all that jazz). Anyway, maybe not all that intriguing to think about but I for one will be eager to read discussions (maybe participate a bit) about what went so right for our guys and how Borges pwnd Narduzzi or soooo bad that everyone here will unfortunately be calling for heads.
(or will there be a separate thread for that?)
that is all
Plain and simple. I've been reading this site daily for 2 years, finally got around to creating an account so I could post at the beginning of this year. And while some of the posts along the way had their fair share of idiotic comments, the ability to downvote/upvote mitigated a lot of the damage and kept this place from reading like MLive, ESPN (pre-Facebook requirements), RCMB, Bucknuts and the dumpster fire that is Michigan's 24/7 site. A lot of the discussion was pretty interesting and in some ways I found the boards to be equally as entertaining (if not more so) than the actual site content from Brian, Ace, Heiko, Seth, etc.
Once the ability to downvote/upvote posts went away, these message boards completely disintegrated. I was in a thread 8 or 9 months ago debating with a couple reasonable OSU posters about why I thought that MGoBlog was a much better, more reasonable site than 11W from a poster's perspective. I told those guys I would take the Pepsi Challenge and try 11W for a few months to see if they could prove me wrong.
For awhile, I saw a lot of similarities between the two sites. Some stupid delusional posters and threads, but a fair amount of respect for opposing fans as long as they didn't blatantly troll. But over the last few months, I've actually found more intelligent conversation about Michigan football on a friggin' OHIO STATE blog than on a site that set the standard for what a college football blog site should be. It's because the inmates are running the asylum in these forums now, and there's no way to maintain a level of intelligent posting without a few idiots disrupting the entire thread. Or worse, just starting a total thread that is a complete shit show from the beginning.
We like to claim that Michigan as a fan base is somehow more rational than the likes of Little Brother, Ohio and the SEC but the reality is we're not. Where MGoBlog used to be a reasonable safe haven for heated but (somewhat) intelligent discussion, the reality is that a bunch of these threads are now comprised of RCMB quality.
I was never known as much of a contributor or frequent poster anyway (pretty obvious from my point total) but my activity has diminished significantly over the past 3 months because the discussions in these threads have become so asinine. The main page content is still excellent as always and the mods and key contributors like Space Coyote and Magnus still churn out great posts. But in terms of good back and forth dialogue among the broader group, it's just not there.
The pulse of this site when you read through many of these threads feels like some kind of paranoid, Little Brother complex in relation to both Ohio and Staee, which is insane. If this is an indication of what our fan base as a whole is turning into, then I pity future iterations of the Michigan football team who have to play for such a fan base.
Sory if this sounds completely "holier than thou" but the reality is that this post isn't intended as a call to arms for a number of the idiots on here to settle down. It's a given that idiots are going to be idiots, so what I'm really hoping is that the good folks who run this site will take these words to heart and do what they can to reinstitute upvotes/downvotes and other moderation policies as quickly as possible. The absence of this kind of policing has really started to devalue the site, which is a shame because it's still the best source for UM sports content that you can find.
+1. Maybe things always go off the rails during the season when tension is high, but yeah, the past three months have been rough.
I got negbanged fairly often, even when my posts were innocuous...but negbangs need to come back.
Always felt like part of the site's identity.
And yes, the board is now saturated with fools and trolls.
There was some sort of technical glitch with the site that caused them to disappear. I believe Brian said they would be fixed by the beginning of the season, but then they didn't get fixed. Now he says that football season is too busy, so they'll get fixed after football season. Considering basketball season is starting up, plus there's football bowl season and then National Signing Day and then March Madness, I wouldn't really expect things to slow down until April or May. Hopefully the site fixes don't take THAT long, because it's already having a negative effect...
may not have always been used in the proper context, but I'd much rather draw a few negbangs that make me say WTF if it means that as a whole, we could better weed out the blatantly terrible/juvenile posters. This is basically why I'm able to get some good dialogue on an enemy site like 11W. Obviously most of their posters aren't going to agree with me, but the whole upvote/downvote process they have in place over there generally keeps the discussions pretty civil, as long as I'm not being blatantly insulting.
I almost never read long posts but this one was worth it.
Our new motto?
I'm glad something useful came out of this thread.
P.S. Beat Staee
Happens when you have two bye sin one season.
Does the same axiom apply to fan blogs...No one fan is bigger than the whole fan base? Me love me some space coyote, but c' mon now fellas. Even space coyote says this is silly.
That said the constant din of saying this blog is "going down hill" and "sucks" is cliche. Make specific asks for improvement or move on. I am more annoyed by the "down hill" comments than the idiots as idiots are subject to the wrath of the board and the democratized internet. If you all complaining about the downward slide of the board want to cure idiocy you are in for a long day and a masichistic (msp?) experience every time you log in here or most places on the net.
We have asked for specific fixes - mainly, the ability to moderate posts (+1, -1, etc.). However, those requests have gone unheeded and/or postponed.
I agree with you. Brian should really be paying attention here (I'm not saying he isn't, but here we are). This blog is his product, he can do as he pleases, but it is a product. And his livelihood. Hopefully he bites the bullet and hires someone to fix this, the MGoBoard has always been a key part of this here site. It would be a shame to see it devolve further, once certain doors have opened it can be damn hard to close them again.
IIRC, users have offered to fix the issue in the past. I believe someone (I think it was Shock FX) actually reached out to him and offered to completely overhaul the voting system just because he loves the site. Brian said, "OK," and then Shock wrote the code to fix the problem and gave it to Brian, and he just....never used it.
Then he was banned.
I thought he got sacked for suggesting a plausible reason that Borges would want to run the stretch.
But that makes sense too.
Now that you say that, yeah I remember. Huh.
A specific fix was requested and it's something that proved to work relatively effectively in the past. The reason why a lot of people are complaining about the site going downhill recently is because the previous checks and balances we had in place were removed. It's not so much cliche as it is a recurring request for a specific change to be implemented. Hopefully if enough people ask for it, something will be done.
Here to appreciate Space Coyote. Extremely smart, thoughtful, diplomatic, wise, not an alarmist, not out to take unfair potshots at our authority figures just to make clear how smart he is.
The PSU aftermath was a very ugly time on this site. I come here to get intelligent insights and also a positive Michigan football vibe. I feel like Brian got too down and once he was down, too petulant and even narcissistic, and then an army of posters turned hysterical and dumbly decided Al B was the problem. Space Coyote was the thing that kept this site from turning into an ugly mob of simpletons, and kept me coming back.
Never thought I'd see a Space Coyote rant. Wild. He deserves one, though. He's been playing it cool for years now.
How about we just calm the f down? Can we do that? Jesus.
Sure, I've written some really dumb comments on mgoblog too from time to time - mostly out of frustration and ignorance. I know I'm not the only one. I've definitely enjoyed SC's contributions because he knows the x's and o's better than anyone, and his comments/answers have either challenged my whining, or opened up my mind to see the situation differently, or both. This is valuable to me.
So if I'm one of the idiots whose previous comments and "bullshit attitude" pissed him off so much as to leave mgoblog for a few days, then I apologize. Come back SC. You make mgoblog a better place dude.
I totally respect SC and hope he sticks around; he brings quite a bit to the analysis on the site. I mostly ignore comments on the site that devolve into the idiocy complained about, and I think SC should do the same here. I will argue that every message board has its malcontents and dregs, so acting like there is a better spot out there with an iota of this coverage and eyeballs is somewhat misguided.
I do think the whole Borges debate is overblown, though the same stuff happens here (and really any community) once it grows to a suitable size. The only homogenity you'll find here is that (most) people are UM fans in the general sense; expecting agreement beyond that basic fact is silly. Personally, I think Al Borges is a bit overrated as an OC, though I'm sure he performs better with players and skill sets that best match his offensive philosophy. I know there are numerous examples of his success at different programs, as well as examples of his struggles, and those can be twisted to fit a narrative.
I will say, and this can be taken however anyone wants, I find it funny that people complain about the "hive mind" brought about on this site by Brian and then simply fall in line with a contrarian view that, while true sometimes, possesses similar flaws that just aren't sussed out as diligently because they are in the minority. I agree that SC is right about the undue hatred toward Borges and how many people don't know what is happening with the OC, but at some point you sound like you are ignoring reality when trying to "justify" results-based statistics.
is some kind of epic bizarro world. i suspect it may turn into a blog of its own.
and it's so long i forgot what it was about.
and what exactly is a "space coyote" ?
Honestly, I like SC and enjoy reading his analysis of the game of football. I thnk he has aded a lot to this blog with his insights and would continue to read his pots if he decides to stay.
That said, I have to say that in all honesty, his recent blogging patterns have been no better than those he seems to be complaining about. The rant he had that was pasted in the OP was just the latest in which he completely went off the deep end and is far from being objective in any way.
I freely admit that SC knows way more about football than I ever will which is why I enjoy reading his posts, but lots of other people know a lot too, and I enjoy reading them. And when people disagree with them, they don't go all Clark Griswald on everyone either.
My point really is that lots of people use Brian's insight to formulate their opinion as many do with SC as well. It's only normal that some will fall on both sides of the debate. It doesn't mean that anyone who sides on the anti-borges side of things are mindless idiots anymore than people who agree with SC are. People just need to stop taking this subject (and blog in general) so seriously.
Seriously, when people disagree with Brian when has he displayed what we have witnessed from SC the past two weeks? I'm not angry about it, I'm just pointing out that if Brian acted that way when people disagreed with him people would murder him. He hasn't acted that way and still people are always harping about him. Just give the guy a break, he doesn't have to agree with you and just because he doesn't, doesn't mean he's wrong either.
I just honestly wish people would stop taking things so darn personal and for me, if SC decides to leave and never return that's his business. I'll miss his educated analysis, but in all honesty, the last few rants he went on left me feeling like I just got out of the principals office, and I won't miss those anytime soon. Either way, good luck to him in whatever he chooses and lets stop taking everything so personally.
Take a break if you must but please don't go.
I love but never played football, and thus have only macro understanding of the game. Getting solid micro insight from Brian and posters like you is why I come here.
Please just keep doing what you do and filter out the white noise. A voice of reason stands out amid the periodic hysteria and makes mgoblog a worthwhile place to come.
I really don't know who this space coyote is, but I will take your word that he knows plenty about football schematics, although I didn't particularly read any in that post. It mostly came across as someone who has an inflated opinion of themselves. You know football, great. You contribute to a site, great. But guess what, if you leave, we all still get to watch the games on Saturday.
Many of the comments then huh? Space adds sane and insightful points to a shit fight.
I am guessing he coaches himself, but could be wrong.
Maybe find the search feature - it's a blank box near the top of the screen - and find some Space Coyote posts. The guy knows football. And I, for one, appreciate the way he breaks down a read, block, play, or game. It helps me understand football better because it is always good to hear opposing opinions. I also tend to agree that many opinions on this board are uninformed. Hopefully he or anyone else doesn't leave the board because of a few turd furgesons who just come on here to complain.
Time to take a knee.