Come on. You think Space Coyote wrote that rant while having a good laugh? He explicity talks about being annoyed. You can't be annoyed without being upset and/or angry to at least some degree.
things go poorly
Come on. You think Space Coyote wrote that rant while having a good laugh? He explicity talks about being annoyed. You can't be annoyed without being upset and/or angry to at least some degree.
SC does not attempt to correct every person on the board. He chimes in when he is commenting in an educated and insightful fashion, and then periodically complains when the whining and complaining from persons with no apparent football knowledge or insight flood the board.
I LOVE that about him. Passion for informing is the THI*NG when it comes to blogging.
I can't fault him though, the board is literally obsessed with Borges and State. If you read the board for the first time, you'd probably think that Michigan is winless this year.
It's been said that the group of posters fanatically against Borges was small in comparision to the whole, but they were clearly the most outspoken. Space Coyote himself mentioned this problem back in the immediate wake of the PSU aftermath, but he continued to make it his mission to stand gaurd at the wall and fend off the same small sect of posters time after time. Serenity early in the aftermath led to the insanity that we just read in that post. So, if he has the interest in returning that you hope he does, then we either need a karma/points system back to stop people from just posting the kinds of things he made reference to over and over again, or he'll have to live with people being wrong on the internet. The karma and points are entirely meaningless, but man does it ever affect how people post on this board.
A few of those posters are obvious trolls,likely MSU or OSU fans pretending to be Michigan fans, but there also seems to be a contigent who've been around for several years, haven't posted much lately but got the Borg signal or something and are now activated and behaving in drone fashion to repeat the same mantras over and over about failure and doom.
Only 42 MGoPoints....
Watch out, all. The trolls have gone meta.
That part of the group is why I wanted to throw in the part about karma/points. It's changed how people post on this board and has predominantly affected people who have been around here before (well, I guess that's trivial. Can't really affect someone who came in afterwards. Anyways:). It's not new that people come back to this board en masse when Michigan football is back and especially when there are struggles to talk about. The thing that's new is the majority of the board can't weigh in on types of posts (see: The Rant) that they don't believe is up to the level of discourse they want to see on the board via karma or point votes. Last year after the ND game, people could down vote someone pushing the "bench Denard" idea in every thread days after the initial shock of the game wore off. But now that doesn't happen, and people continue to do it (in this case re: Borges), and the only "defense" has been people responding to it, which is something the majority won't always step in and do. Space Coyote essentially took on that task himself, and here we are.
While I think he's right that there's a contingent of the Butthurt Brigade that came out of the woodwork after PSU, it used to be that you could drive by neg people spouting stupidity who had no hope of being reasoned with. Or even people making negative but somewhat sound points over and over and over again. Now all you can do is argue with them, or let falsehoods stand. Most of us had given up on it, but SC tried to do it alone, and with more patience than most of us had. And probably has some worried if they stand up they'll be found to be a "negative influence" and banned.
Borges is a good OC not great but he went from Auburn to SD State after being out of coaching for 2 seasons. 75% of colleges may take him but I don't think an NFL team would want him coordinating their offense. And his longest tenure was Portland State at 6 years
Because he was the last bastion of reasonable defense on this board and Brian might as well declare the boards a free for all war zone. Since his "purge" he's empowered everyone to be assholes without retribution, and he's created the shitshow the board has become. He wanted a place for rational discussion of football but if he keeps letting guys like Space Coyote get driven off it's just monkeys throwing poo at each other. But Space Coyote didn't always agree with him so he probably doesn't care.
The question at hand could be which is better for the day-to-day operations of the site and the message board, quality or quantity.
The quantity of page clicks result in a larger paycheck, which is good for business in a sense. Lately, it seems like a lot of negativity has driven a lot of traffic for the site (example, the many Fire Borges Threads, and the "Purge" thread). As a result, a lot of valuable posters have gotten fed up trying to shout rational ideas/discussions over the simply stated 'fire borges" statements.
Quality: Using a self moderation system where the community can patrol the message board so that rational discussion of football can easily rid and discourage users who tend to inflame other, most rational contributors. As a consequence, there may be a slight loss in traffic to the site. The users who tend to provide insightful and thought provoking discussion/debates/ideas should have the louder voices in my opinion.
Self Moderation will make the mods jobs much easier since I can sense some burnout from a few of them. The lack of acknoweledgement of the community from Brian and lack of fixes to the board is starting to show.
I'm finding myself growing tired of the boards, too, for this very reason. Maybe it's always been this way, but it seems like more and more people are just taking up space here instead of trying to talk rationally about football. The lack of moderating by the group has taken a toll. I actually liked it when Brian got angry a few weeks ago and started banning people, but that was a short-lived attitude.
but this is a blog, not the Bible. This is the ultimate "free speech" arena. If SC wants to rant, so be it. If you read his posts they have plenty of reasoning included ... is there room for disagreement, absolutely. No one on the planet knows everything, and suggestions that you are the all-knowing giver of facts on football strategy is no way to prove a point.
I don't really think this is the ultimate free speech arena, though. This is a sports blog about Michigan, and there are lots of rules. If you can't post "OT" things during football season, it's reasonable to expect that there are going to be some other standards as well.
But I think the Mods do a pretty good job in regard to content related issues. We have all seen several threads be "dismantled" when they have crossed the "out of bounds" line (politics anyone?). This really seems more of an instance where SC decided enough was enough for him and voluntarily choose to suspend his postings ... isn't that his perogative? Why are we looking to blame anyone as a result ...
Good news for people who love bad news.
Yes, it's too bad. Before that "purge" there weren't any trolls or bickering here at all. It was just sunshine and lollipops. Damn you Brian!
If you're going to respond to every dumb person on the internet, your experience of it will be hell. Make your main point in reply to a post by Brian or whatever and then, if you wish, only engage in debate with people who are being reasonable and genuinely seeking answers. You're not going to change the trolls. A shit leopard can't change its spots.
At least we're not arguing about Rich Rod anymore, amirite!?
I don't really remember SpaceCoyote responding to many people with the "Borgess sux cuz h'es fat" type arguments. I could be wrong on that, but I don't think so. I think the whole point, and the reason there is such an outspoken sentiment backing him, is that shit has gotten ridiculous these past few weeks with comments that are nothing but negative for the sake of being negative.
I wish people that didn't find sports fun would give posting on a sports blog a rest. Newsflash: Michigan will lose to Ohio State again this century, basketball won't be winning every game by 73 and a relatively weak defense and young goaltending will lead to problems for hockey. It's fine to root for all of those to be false, but it's not worth the personal attacks on players, coaches or fellow fans and it's not worth bringing down the entire board in a sea of vitriol.
Had the equivalent of the VIP lounge at an airport, somewhere for the adults to talk and relax while the unwashed rabble hork down buffalo chicken wraps and wipe their fingers off on their xxl track suits, talking with their mouths full about knowing everything.
What's the entry criteria; I'm sold.
Eh, never mind. I don't want to be part of any club that would have me as a member.
I've an idea to join a club and beat you over the head with it.
I too find many comments on this board knee-jerk, lacking in insight and sometimes just stupid. My pet peeve are those who post 20-30 times on a single topic. But Jeezus, for the most part, I just ignore them, But some people, and Space Coyote often, cannot do that. Not every comment needs to be responded to. The need to do so implies its own form of arrogance and closed-mindedness.
Just here to sign the petition in support of Space Coyote.
His posts add a TON to this site, and I really don't feel that he comes across as arrogant or as a know-it-all.
"His posts add a TON to this site, and I really don't feel that he comes across as arrogant or as a know-it-all. "
Thats because you don't say random, non-sensical things that he's had to rebuttle and thus make you feel insecure about yourself. A hit dog will holler.
Space Coyote, I appreciate you dude.
Space Coyote but also Reader 71 and a few others have brought a welcome relief of reason and sanity to some of the recent threads.
And I admire them more for their persistence. I just don't have the energy to fight the overwhelming negativity most of the board and front page has generated recently. Those two posters have done more than their share.
And thanks to the OP for posting this. SC in particularly has been far more well thought out and far more helpfully than nearly everyone on the Borges hatred bandwagon.
...I was this blog's version of Space Coyote. I, too, got fed up with idiocy and snark. I had a decent amount of diaries, and I decided to delete them all.
Now, we can all sit here and say, "Interwebs gonna interweb," and that's largely true. The problem is that this site claims to be a non-mlive type of place, and a lot times over the years rational thought has been deleted while douchey, snarky, non-value add comments dominate the content of the board and comments to main page posts and diaries.
To Brian's credit, he's come a long way in his football knowledge, even went to a coaches' clinic to learn more ball. How many bloggers of teams have done that? Does Brian have a lot to learn? Sure. But, as we've all seen, even some coaches have more to learn. I'm not saying Brian knows as much (or even close) as coaches. What I'm saying is that he's doing a good job of always trying to learn more. I always found him to be open and receptive to listening.
I think if Space Coyote wants to make comments that are free from idiocy, he go start his own blog and he can delete whatever he wants. I think he's spent enough time here that doing his own blog wouldn't be more time-consuming. If mgoblog had an x's and o's guy on staff, I don't know how much Brian would add, other than turning into Ronald Bellamy's Underachieving All-Stars.
I disagree with SC about Borges. His gameplan and risk aversion in the second half I believe cost us the game at PSU. I'm not saying the decision in OT in those situations were against the odds but we shouldn't have even been in that situation in the first place (aside from the TWO delay of game blunders). If we came out with the same mindset as Ohio State did against PSU or that we did vs Indiana, we beat PSU handily. I may not be a coach but I watched all 3 games and we certainly did not exploit PSUs defense in the way we should have (bubble screen WAS the answer, at least part of it). OSU did. We aren't as good as OSU, so maybe we only win 42-14 instead of 63-14. Borges may be brilliant but his brilliance costs us games from time to time. My opinion.
I agree. But if we don't spike the ball or get a delay of game and hit the FG before the touch back punt leading to the 80 yd drive, we wouldn't have this convo. Similarly if we exploited the ridiculous cushion their secondary was giving us like OSU we are up a ton where none of that stuff even comes into play. I get we were at PSU, etc but I don't think that's worth 40 pts.
i actually had a civil exchange with SC. and i enjoy his thoughts, though i don't agree entirely with his opinions. but i largely agree with your point here. imo, we have seen borges call some great games, IU, osu at home, neb at home, iowa at home. but he has also had some stinkers; primarily on the road: osu, iowa, nw (first half), msu, nd, ala. i don't think it should be a 50/50 success rate for the UM OC. he gets paid a lot of dough to be more consistent than that.
Here's the thing, though: there will be people who at some point this year call for John Beilein's head. Michigan will lose to MSU or Wisconsin and then "he can't coach Big Ten basketball" and "we should be doing more with all this talent," etc...People here are always going to say stupid shit - I probably do sometimes - because we're a lot more passionate than we are knowledgable. And people are going to be dicks to varying degrees, because this is the internet. This place has sharp elbows, and you have to deal with that.
Have a pretty good idea how he feels.
Good posters sometimes get fed up.
I really want him to stay. I replied directly to his rant by trying to say what I tried to say here, which is that you've just got to let a bunch of stuff go (something I am still working on myself)...The criticism that Coach Rod received here (some of it deserved in content but not tone) and the criticism that even Coach Beilein has received has burned into my brain the belief that this place will never be a tranquil resting place in which we do nothing but civilly exchange well-thought-out ideas. SC needs to narrow his focus as far as what he pays attention to on the board - and I advise that in the spirit of friendship. I haven't intended anything I've said as a knock against him.
Is as short lived as yours was.
We need more like you guys, not less.
Anybody who calls/called for Beilein's head should be banned, period. No questions asked. There's no need for that kind of idiocy on the board. You're right that it will happen this year, and it should be nipped in the bud.
You just have to ignore the dumb posts. I enjoy reading space coyotes posts. He seems very knowledgeable and I hope he stays!
I love space coyote's analysis.
I also happen to think Borges is a great OC, who is particularly hamstrung by the turrible OL recruiting under RR. Even Brian saw this coming, and no one should be surprised by it.
Fortunately, saner heads (i.e., Brandon and Hoke and Mattison) will prevail. Borges isn't going anywhere.
However, the discourse and content on the board definitely is going down. I've never really cared about the lack of negbangs, but I think they are badly needed at this point.
I do want space coyote to stay, although you have to have a thick skin and be ready to ignore the lunatic fringe.
Though one thing that's getting lost a little here is that 100% of college football coaches "know more" or have more literal knowledge about the details of football than any of the people posting or writing for the site. But that doesn't mean that some coaches don't fail or underperform, and it doesn't necessarily take someone with an equally detailed knowledge of offensive line foot positioning or coverage terminology to make a judgment about their success or failure or to make an insightful point about their style.
You don't have to know how to pick the right camera lens or have written a subplot to know that the movie you're watching isn't very good.
(FWIW, my own position, which I reserve the right to change constantly as events warrant, is that Borges is smart and obviously capable but a little too stubborn.)
re: movies. we've seen a few rocky's under borges. unfortuneately, we've seen a lot of rocky V's as well.
I was looking for someone to make this point. I'm sure most people know someone in their respective fields of employment that is high ranking, far more knowledgeable about the subject matter than 95% of the public, maybe even generally respected, but also terrible at his or her job.
Second, you don't have to necessarily have the same level of knowledge as professionals in a particular field to be able to identify someone who is not good at his or her job. In fact, I'd argue that being in the field often hinders some people's abilty to objectively consider a fellow professional's job performance.
I have no problem with SC correcting technical mistakes that he can correct based on professional knowledge. But people shouldn't act like others can't reasonably believe Al Borges isn't good at his job (despite the inartful and stupid ways some use to explain that belief) because Borges obviously knows more about football than pretty much everyone on this board. After all, Borges was essentially fired by Auburn despite his initial success there.
As an aside, I agree with SC's main point that people shouldn't read too much into press conference quotes. Yes, the post-PSU one had my blood boiling a little bit, but some of the other comments people harp on have way, way too much read into them.
is one I agree with.
Even as someone who has been highly critical of Borges, I agree that the Borges hate has reached unreasonable levels. That said, trying to keep message board posters from saying dumb or uninformed things is a Sysiphisian task.
BOOM! Spelling Nazi'd!
I kid. I kid because I love. I'm a little sour on Borges post PSU but he has put together some great work here and there. I thought the South Carolina gameplan was nothing short of brilliant.
Personally, I hope he continues to contribute here. If he feels he can't, then Ill jut read his stuff at his own blog. I like when anybody can come with an informed analysis, and he certainly contributes a lot. That said, maybe he just needs to step away for a while. I do when the stupid gets to be too much.
I love having Space Coyote's comments, but if he's going to be an Internet Sports Guy he can't let anonymous ignorant comments bother him so badly. I think he's right. Maybe he should take a break.
From the posts I've read Space Coyote seems to know his stuff and his posts appear to be well thought out. I don't agree with everything that he says but he gives good food for thought. That being said this is a message board. Peoples opinions will differ. The quoted post sounds like someone having a breakdown because people don't like Al Borges. Who gives a crap. Whether they are right or wrong does it really matter? I think a little perspective is in order. I'm looking forward to watching the game on Saturday. I can't wait. Anyone else hate bye weeks?