Space Coyote Appreciation Thread

Submitted by JimBobTressel on

Congrats you sniveling morons, you're on the verge of driving him off. I'd say 90% of you know way less football than you think you do and that's generous.

Space Coyote, as anyone who follows him on Twitter knows, literally breaks down the X's and O's of a game faster than anyone out there. Insanely intelligent.

My suggestion is to shut up and read. Literally the first time I've ever heard him driven to cursing.

This constant, idiotic, bull shit attitude where about a dozen people look at things Borges says and twist it, act like he's stupid and doesn't know shit, is really, really annoying. Someone the other day bitched about Hoke saying "most teams have 4 base runs and 4 base passes". "Haha, how stupid is that? How much are our coaches out of touch, eh?" Well guess what, most teams have about 4 base runs and 4 base passes.

People on this thread bitching about "we'll lock into some plays". Guess what, every coach at this level will lock into some plays. Why is it stupid for Borges to say, "alright, I don't want my college QB to get into a chess match with one of the best DCs in the country?" Why is it stupid to think Michigan's OC, that has tons of experience, might have a better idea of what's going on? Why is it, that if Borges calls a pass play that has a single high beater to one side and a two high beater to the other, that he needs to have DG have the ability to check out? 

People are bringing PSU nearly three weeks after it happened and still don't understand shit about what happened despite the attempts by some to explain "maybe it wasn't the greatest, but it was far from the worst. Very far from the worst." People keep bringing up "27 for 27" and don't even understand what half of it fucking means, don't understand the game situations that corresponded with it, don't understand that Borges in fact called 14 runs to RBs in the first 54 minutes, which if Michigan weren't trying to eat clock at the end, amounts to a very modest 17 runs in the game.

And then people use a bunch of BS logic. "How many QBs does Borges have in the NFL?" How many has Tressel had? Maybe Pryor? How many does Rich Rod have? Zero? How many does Meyer have? One from his Utah days? What the hell does this even have to do with successful college QBs? But let's bring up how a RS FR, for the first time ever, won the Heisman. Then lets disregard any actual knowledge of anything. Did he check into better plays? Did he run the offense against Alabama? Why are we comparing our QB to maybe the best QB in college football as if that is exactly what Michigan's QB should always be because it's the way it is in your NCAA football game.

But no, it's way too much credit to think an OC that's been in the game has even a functional knowledge of football. I think that the people that think this is his first time seeing a football game since he played Tecmo Bowl as a child are on to something. Oh God he's so fucking stupid that half the posters on here know he's an idiot and see things and understand things he has no idea about.

Honestly, this is getting beyond annoying. The posters here, at least a lot of the outspoken ones, are complete fucking morons that think because they are outspoken they are right. Maybe I should take a break from these boards, from these sites, and let it just degrade into idiocracy. Because I'm sick of every thread even tangentially about Borges turns into this "Hurrr duurrrr Borges dumb, he don't even know that you no can run out of formation not called spread". The wave of stupidity and ignorance mixed with unentitled arrogance that has washed over the board is overbearing. I don't mind debate, I don't mind different opinions, but opinions stated repeatedly time and again without even the effort to have any damn clue what your talking about, and then ignoring people that try to say "wait a second" time and again is exhausting.

Am I done here? Yeah, I think I'm done here.

MGoNukeE

October 31st, 2013 at 1:22 AM ^

given that Rodriguez was fired after that season anyway. Brian even stated he thought Rodriguez should be let go after the bowl game. (though he criticized The Process that Brandon went through to do so; I agree with his reasoning.)

Regarding 2010, Michigan gained 351 yards against OSU. Only 12th-ranked Miami (352) and 8th-ranked Arkansas (402) outgained Michigan that year against Ohio State. In 2012, Michigan gained 279 yards against OSU, which ranks 11th in total yards gained against OSU that year (only Illinois was worse). Given the amount of text that Brian has written to show yardage is a more reliable metric than points, this at least shows that Brian's point of view is consistent and based on more than "SPREAD GOOD MANBALL BAD".

Wee-Bey Brice

October 29th, 2013 at 10:59 PM ^

Brian definitely has some knowledge of the game but the problem is that he's sharing his views and people are taking that as the gospel because this is where they come to gain knowledge of their own. What they don't realize is most of the stuff covered here football wise is a matter of perspective, especially as it pertains to our problems and the solution to those problems. 

soup-er-UM

October 30th, 2013 at 11:22 AM ^

Every discussion on this forum seems to begin with the underlying premise that what Brian says is gospel, so disagreeing with him takes an incredible amount of effort.  There is also seems to be a general feeling that not running the spread is a choice that could only rationally made by people who lack the capacity for abstract thought and hate knowledge and learning - it doesn't exactly foster a positive environment.

I personally have decided to diversify my sources of M football information and take Brian's post for what they are - informed editorials with identifiable biases.

EDIT: and I should be clear that I very much appreciate and respect this blog and the content providers here.  My knowledge of the players and football concepts is worlds higher than it was when I started reading 4 years ago. 

InterM

October 30th, 2013 at 5:26 PM ^

I had no idea that this blog reflected the proprietor's opinions about Michigan football.  Guess I'll throw away the "Gospel According to Brian" that I was compiling . . . .

Meanwhile, can you direct me to a blog that doesn't suffer from these deficiencies, but instead is (i) run by a current or former coach for a high-level college or NFL team with real-life on-the-field experience, and (ii) doesn't just give opinions, but instead tells me the facts of what the Michigan coaches were thinking when they made their decisions and whether those decisions were correct or not?  Then I can stop wasting my time at this patently inadequate site.

wolverine1987

October 30th, 2013 at 10:49 AM ^

Somene who denigrates and misrepresents an opinion he disagrees with. Or doesn't comprehend the opposing opinion. I'm not sure which one you are, but it's one of those choices.

Brian has an opinion and a blog that people read to see that opinion, agree or disagree. OF COURSE he is going to argue it vigorously. But he does not argue it in the way you suggest, at all.

Lastly--decisions on philosophy of play calling and football strategy DO NOT require coaching exoperience to have a valid opinion. Brian (or you, or me) has every right to question a call on 3rd and one, or chossing FG over going for it, etc. I agree with Space Coyote overall, most particularly in his rant about the criticisms of Borges being stupid. But many coaching decisions ARE fair game for questioning, and do not require coaching exoerience to be correct.

Wee-Bey Brice

October 29th, 2013 at 10:47 PM ^

Space Coyote is one of my favorite posters for one main reason, aside from the above rant he doesn't post based on his emotions. A lot of the posters here make stupid comments because they're upset (and jealous) we haven't traded places with Ohio yet which has led to the overall negative tone that has loomed over the board lately. The "OMG its year 3, I feel like dying" bs seriously is annoying. We all want the team to be perfect but seriously, this is not the place to come and vent 24/7. Get a journal if you want to do that. Unfortunately, I think even Brian contributes to (if not fuels) that negative dynamic at times and people just run with it until they're blue in the face. I don't know if the point system is really to blame but the atmosphere around here HAS to change soon. 

triangle_M

October 29th, 2013 at 10:45 PM ^

Space Coyote is the best non-staff contributor on this blog and better than most of the staff.  Telling him, "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" is at best short sighted and moreover mind-numbingly ignorant.  But I guess that's where we are.  

EnoughAlready

October 29th, 2013 at 10:51 PM ^

...better than most of the staff."

Yep.  At least SC tries to understand what Borges is trying to do, instead of critiquing everything on the basis of a preconceived notion that the spread offense is best.  Brian (and others) feel free to ridicule Borges endlessly, when it's clear they haven't tried (or been able) to grasp HIS offense.

Mmmm Hmmm

October 29th, 2013 at 11:30 PM ^

Brian's 27 for 27 post seemed mostly an emotional response, but in UFR he does seem to try to understand what Borges (and Mattison) are trying to accomplish. Besides, Space Coyote wasn't demanding a moratorium on criticism, he was railing on criticism using untrue or unsound (or fact-ignoring) assumptions. Though he made his point forcefully, that underlying point seems fairly non-controversial to me. I don't think many would prefer debate that becomes unmoored from reality, even if we might disagree a bit on who has the right frame of reference.

triangle_M

October 29th, 2013 at 11:03 PM ^

Here you go:  ignorant: lacking knowledge or awareness in general, uneducated or unsophisticated.  

Someone who is so haugty that they would tell one of the great contributors here to piss off is ignorant.  They have a lack of understanding.  No great poster = no great posts.  You see how that works?  

The alternative, since you need to have it spelled out for you, is to show your appreciation. 

yoopergoblue

October 29th, 2013 at 10:48 PM ^

This guy instantly became one of my favorite posters with that rant!  I'm not the #1 fan of Borges but I think he's done a much better job than everyone has gave him credit for.  

 

Mr. Yost

October 29th, 2013 at 10:51 PM ^

Magnus is treated the same way...he deals with it. Alum is the same way. I've had nice, even heated back and forths with both. Never any hard feelings, but you're going to catch shit any time you come across as a "know it all," doesn't matter if you do or don't. Hell, I'll probably catch some for this very post, however, I'll continue...

It's a message board and this is 2013, your opinion is going to be challenged whether you're right or wrong. And the reason I put "this is 2013" because 5-8 years ago people just game to these sites for information. They let the experts and insiders do the talking and they just asked questions for the most part.

Now everyone is an expert. But that's just the age we live in...just like fans and social media and HS kids, just like a channel called ESPNU (as in UNIVERSITY or COLLEGE) that talks about HS football 50% of the time.

5-8 years ago your insiders gave the info, 5-8 years ago grown men weren't Facebooking or Tweeting at HS kids they didn't know...5-8 years ago message boards we're full of drunken idiots who ruin it for everyone.

Also 5-8 years ago, you didn't have so many young/immature posters. I remember that every now and again in the offseason you'd get a random "How old are you" thread and there would be very few posters under 18. Everyone usually fell into the 18-40 category. Now you get these middle school kids who think they smarter than you, me, Coach Hoke, everyone.

At this point you just have to accept that this is the way it is and the way it's going to be unless Brian allows for a serious tweaking of the moderating that gives the good posters more power and makes it easier to eliminate the bad ones.

I know me...I'd shut up a lot more if things were different, but when every else is yelling, you sometimes have to yell or be obnoxious just to be heard. I love reading the insider stuff, at the same time I don't care who you are...I'll challenge anyone's opinion. But what really sucks is the shit posters that flood the board and truly make it tough on everyone.

That said, I've accepted that is the way it is and will always be. I've moved on.

M-Wolverine

October 29th, 2013 at 11:07 PM ^

He never complained about arguing with people. Just people throwing out nonsense as fact, or less than nonsense as an argument, the kind that take meme points from the front page and run them into the ground.

If being a know it all means you think there are actually other viewpoints and ways to look at things, then this board thinks it means something other than what it means.

Mr. Yost

October 29th, 2013 at 11:19 PM ^

I wasn't responding to his complaints...I don't even know what he said to be honest.

I was responding to the OP.

Btw, I apologize...I should've thrown you in my last post and actually realized it 10 minutes ago when I was reading another thread. I look forward to the insight you bring along with the others.

That said, you're going to get shit for it from time to time.

Now if that's not what the complaints are about, my bad...but again, I wasn't responding to anything Space Coyote said because I don't know what he said (and that text box was way too long for me to read tonight). I was more responding to the OP so seems to think people are running him off and he's not going to post anymore because of the state of the board.

As for people throwing around opinion as fact, we have a ton of laptop head coaches...but every board does. But I think you can credit that to the fact that we have so much GOOD information on this board. You can learn so much about Michigan Footbal and football in general here that you start to believe you know more than you do.

Either that, or you're pretty good at NCAA Football '13.

M-Wolverine

October 29th, 2013 at 11:32 PM ^

And maybe SC has waded into it more deeply than he should. I was probably him at one point posting against every idiocy on here, but doing it a lot less politely than SC. You have to save it for misinformation or outright lies.

But you're not a newbie, you know how it works....hasn't it gotten noticeably worse around here? Blame popularity, blame lack of negging and moderation, blame it from the de-evolution from Brian's ideal to the acceptance that "Internet gonna Internet" or whatever. But the "sound to noise ratio" is getting worse. You've seen that, I have to believe.

lilpenny1316

October 30th, 2013 at 12:21 AM ^

I could tolerate the snarky comments about someone's misuse of the English language.  I get annoyed when I have to spell check a post.

But I haven't seen so many people get called an idiot for taking a different point of view.  People run to Wikipedia so they can make a quick point and they're suddenly the smartest SOB in the room.  

Some may blame the "change" on the PSU loss, but I think that just magnified the noise.  And I don't think beating Sparty would correct things.  A win on Saturday just calms the storm for a few days.

Paps

October 29th, 2013 at 10:53 PM ^

I was talking recently to a guy I know, who I consider to be the smartest football mind I have ever met.  We were talking about offensive philosophy, and i brought up Borges.  This guy is a HUGE Georiga fan, and general SEC lover, but understands the game in a way I've never seen.  I asked him his opinion of Al Borges, whom he rememberd from Borges' time at Auburn.  He replied with this:

"That was a scary dude when he was at Auburn.  He had his system, and it really worked for him.  Michigan is isolating him too much under a microscope, especially in the penn state game.  Every OC has his style, and though that was a crushing loss, y'all should be thankful that you have Borges, becuase about 75% of the nation would kill to have him as their OC, not to mention a couple of NFL teams.  There is no such thing as an OC that gameplans every game of every season perfectly, and y'all need to realize that.  Plus, once y'all get some SEC style beef up front, that will really set everything up."

I agree whole-heartedly with my friend, as Borges has done a great job over the last few years.  It's what Hoke wants in an OC, and this is EXACTLY what we signed up for when we hired Hoke.  

As for Space Coyote: Borges did produce Jason Campbell, who, while not the best QB, has seen NFL action.  I am a follower of SC's on twitter, and hope he stays around these parts and delivers his knowlege and insight. 

Yeoman

October 29th, 2013 at 11:24 PM ^

...is an odd criticism of Borges anyway, isn't it? Even if it were true.

As I recall, at one point during his time here there was precisely one offensive player in the NFL that had played for Rodriguez, and he had converted to fullback in the pros after playing defense at WVU.

The general opinion on the board about that fact, and a quite reasonable opinion if you ask me, was that it was pretty impressive work by RichRod to get that kind of offensive production for so many years out of fairly limited talent. Why isn't that also the view on Borges?

Franz Schubert

October 29th, 2013 at 10:54 PM ^

But what will gorgeous Al do without Space Coyote to defend him against all of us mental midgets? I mean we really showed our ignorance not understanding that 27 for 27 was brilliant play calling . If only we were more cerebral to comprehend the complexities of how to shit away a game.

CompleteLunacy

October 30th, 2013 at 12:06 AM ^

"completely missing the point".

Show me the time that SC ever called it "brilliant" playcalling. I'll wait.

27 for 27! Penn State! Akron! Uconn! You guys, those are the only arguments we need! FIRE BORGESSSS!!!

buddha

October 29th, 2013 at 10:55 PM ^

Well...I'd be bummed if he left the board. I don't necessarily agree with his aggregate opinion re: Borges. However, I do like some of the breakdowns and assessments he provides, and - I must admit - I have learned quite a bit from his contributions. 

It's one thing to say: "I don't like Borges because he sucks." And, that really brings the overall content of the board down because it's inflammatory and uninformative. 

It’s another thing to say: “I don’t trust Borges. His Resume seems hit-and-miss and inconsistent. I question some of the play calling he’s made, given the defensive alignments. And, I don’t think he’s a good player developer because I don’t see our offensive players improving.” Those are debatable points – all of which I’ve enjoyed reading SC’s commentary on.

So, SC – Please know that while I don’t always agree with you, I greatly appreciate your insight and knowledge. 

Wado

October 29th, 2013 at 11:43 PM ^

Agreed, even if you don't share his viewpoint, having more knowledgeable folks on the board makes it such a better place. When I read really far down into the comments, it's usually because I'm looking for posts like SC's that give more details about what's going on at an advanced level but understandable to the layman like myself.  Now, I think MGrowOld (or MGrowWorld as my brain reads it) raised a fair-seeming question asking if there's anything Borges does that he disagrees with, because everything he said seemed to be a bit one-sided. However, I think that was in response to the situation in which there was a flood of criticism against Borges.

I'd like to keep seeing his posts, but there's always his blog if he's done here.

MaizeMN

October 29th, 2013 at 10:59 PM ^

Space Coyote IS Al Borges. They are both more knowledgeable than the nouveau pitchfork and torches MGoCrowd. I enjoy his perspective and would/will miss the insight.

umumum

October 30th, 2013 at 12:49 AM ^

Isn't great when you can write off those you disagree with as the "nouveau pitchfork and torches MGoCrowd".  Or characterize those who might disagree with Space Coyote about Borges (or Lord be, even agree with Brian from time-to-time) as sheep.  Of course the irony of such aspersions is that they occur in a thread chastizing those for doing the very same thing.  Space Coyote is a great contributor, but this thread quickly devolved into name-calling by the Borges loyalists. And ancedotal stories about the opinions of random SEC fans doesn't pass for fact any more than the opinions it was intended to refute.

HAIL-YEA

October 29th, 2013 at 11:02 PM ^

I respect his football knowledge, but he is arrogant as hell. This is a blog..you are not getting professional opinions here. I don't need an expert to tell me most peoples opinions here suck. I don't care if some jagoff high school football coach thinks he knows everything and everyone else should shut the hell up. If he feels that strongly he should start his own blog and have a rule that no coaches can be criticized.   You are all morons because blah blah execution blah blah experience.

M-Wolverine

October 29th, 2013 at 11:23 PM ^

Who got stomped in an argument by him using things like "facts" and "reason."

But hey, embrace the sucky, unprofessional opinions if that's what interests you.

HAIL-YEA

October 29th, 2013 at 11:49 PM ^

had an arguement with the guy. I have maybe responded to 1 or 2 of his posts max.. and never back and forth. I don't feel the need to force my opinions on others..which was my point. Your point..is spoken like somoene who doesn't have a clue what the hell he is talking about.