That was a superb rant.
things go poorly
That was a superb rant.
Space Coyote is one of my favorite posters for one main reason, aside from the above rant he doesn't post based on his emotions. A lot of the posters here make stupid comments because they're upset (and jealous) we haven't traded places with Ohio yet which has led to the overall negative tone that has loomed over the board lately. The "OMG its year 3, I feel like dying" bs seriously is annoying. We all want the team to be perfect but seriously, this is not the place to come and vent 24/7. Get a journal if you want to do that. Unfortunately, I think even Brian contributes to (if not fuels) that negative dynamic at times and people just run with it until they're blue in the face. I don't know if the point system is really to blame but the atmosphere around here HAS to change soon.
Space Coyote is the best non-staff contributor on this blog and better than most of the staff. Telling him, "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" is at best short sighted and moreover mind-numbingly ignorant. But I guess that's where we are.
Brian's 27 for 27 post seemed mostly an emotional response, but in UFR he does seem to try to understand what Borges (and Mattison) are trying to accomplish. Besides, Space Coyote wasn't demanding a moratorium on criticism, he was railing on criticism using untrue or unsound (or fact-ignoring) assumptions. Though he made his point forcefully, that underlying point seems fairly non-controversial to me. I don't think many would prefer debate that becomes unmoored from reality, even if we might disagree a bit on who has the right frame of reference.
often enough, but his posts usually contain the defined reason for the emotions - or one shows up later.
This is why Brian should not be the captain of a ship or pilot of an airplane. (e.g., Capitan of the Concordia)
Here you go: ignorant: lacking knowledge or awareness in general, uneducated or unsophisticated.
Someone who is so haugty that they would tell one of the great contributors here to piss off is ignorant. They have a lack of understanding. No great poster = no great posts. You see how that works?
The alternative, since you need to have it spelled out for you, is to show your appreciation.
This guy instantly became one of my favorite posters with that rant! I'm not the #1 fan of Borges but I think he's done a much better job than everyone has gave him credit for.
Magnus is treated the same way...he deals with it. Alum is the same way. I've had nice, even heated back and forths with both. Never any hard feelings, but you're going to catch shit any time you come across as a "know it all," doesn't matter if you do or don't. Hell, I'll probably catch some for this very post, however, I'll continue...
It's a message board and this is 2013, your opinion is going to be challenged whether you're right or wrong. And the reason I put "this is 2013" because 5-8 years ago people just game to these sites for information. They let the experts and insiders do the talking and they just asked questions for the most part.
Now everyone is an expert. But that's just the age we live in...just like fans and social media and HS kids, just like a channel called ESPNU (as in UNIVERSITY or COLLEGE) that talks about HS football 50% of the time.
5-8 years ago your insiders gave the info, 5-8 years ago grown men weren't Facebooking or Tweeting at HS kids they didn't know...5-8 years ago message boards we're full of drunken idiots who ruin it for everyone.
Also 5-8 years ago, you didn't have so many young/immature posters. I remember that every now and again in the offseason you'd get a random "How old are you" thread and there would be very few posters under 18. Everyone usually fell into the 18-40 category. Now you get these middle school kids who think they smarter than you, me, Coach Hoke, everyone.
At this point you just have to accept that this is the way it is and the way it's going to be unless Brian allows for a serious tweaking of the moderating that gives the good posters more power and makes it easier to eliminate the bad ones.
I know me...I'd shut up a lot more if things were different, but when every else is yelling, you sometimes have to yell or be obnoxious just to be heard. I love reading the insider stuff, at the same time I don't care who you are...I'll challenge anyone's opinion. But what really sucks is the shit posters that flood the board and truly make it tough on everyone.
That said, I've accepted that is the way it is and will always be. I've moved on.
He never complained about arguing with people. Just people throwing out nonsense as fact, or less than nonsense as an argument, the kind that take meme points from the front page and run them into the ground.
If being a know it all means you think there are actually other viewpoints and ways to look at things, then this board thinks it means something other than what it means.
I wasn't responding to his complaints...I don't even know what he said to be honest.
I was responding to the OP.
Btw, I apologize...I should've thrown you in my last post and actually realized it 10 minutes ago when I was reading another thread. I look forward to the insight you bring along with the others.
That said, you're going to get shit for it from time to time.
Now if that's not what the complaints are about, my bad...but again, I wasn't responding to anything Space Coyote said because I don't know what he said (and that text box was way too long for me to read tonight). I was more responding to the OP so seems to think people are running him off and he's not going to post anymore because of the state of the board.
As for people throwing around opinion as fact, we have a ton of laptop head coaches...but every board does. But I think you can credit that to the fact that we have so much GOOD information on this board. You can learn so much about Michigan Footbal and football in general here that you start to believe you know more than you do.
Either that, or you're pretty good at NCAA Football '13.
And maybe SC has waded into it more deeply than he should. I was probably him at one point posting against every idiocy on here, but doing it a lot less politely than SC. You have to save it for misinformation or outright lies.
But you're not a newbie, you know how it works....hasn't it gotten noticeably worse around here? Blame popularity, blame lack of negging and moderation, blame it from the de-evolution from Brian's ideal to the acceptance that "Internet gonna Internet" or whatever. But the "sound to noise ratio" is getting worse. You've seen that, I have to believe.
I could tolerate the snarky comments about someone's misuse of the English language. I get annoyed when I have to spell check a post.
But I haven't seen so many people get called an idiot for taking a different point of view. People run to Wikipedia so they can make a quick point and they're suddenly the smartest SOB in the room.
Some may blame the "change" on the PSU loss, but I think that just magnified the noise. And I don't think beating Sparty would correct things. A win on Saturday just calms the storm for a few days.
I "deal with it" by crying myself to sleep every night.
Awwww. Lets hug it out!
I was talking recently to a guy I know, who I consider to be the smartest football mind I have ever met. We were talking about offensive philosophy, and i brought up Borges. This guy is a HUGE Georiga fan, and general SEC lover, but understands the game in a way I've never seen. I asked him his opinion of Al Borges, whom he rememberd from Borges' time at Auburn. He replied with this:
"That was a scary dude when he was at Auburn. He had his system, and it really worked for him. Michigan is isolating him too much under a microscope, especially in the penn state game. Every OC has his style, and though that was a crushing loss, y'all should be thankful that you have Borges, becuase about 75% of the nation would kill to have him as their OC, not to mention a couple of NFL teams. There is no such thing as an OC that gameplans every game of every season perfectly, and y'all need to realize that. Plus, once y'all get some SEC style beef up front, that will really set everything up."
I agree whole-heartedly with my friend, as Borges has done a great job over the last few years. It's what Hoke wants in an OC, and this is EXACTLY what we signed up for when we hired Hoke.
As for Space Coyote: Borges did produce Jason Campbell, who, while not the best QB, has seen NFL action. I am a follower of SC's on twitter, and hope he stays around these parts and delivers his knowlege and insight.
...is an odd criticism of Borges anyway, isn't it? Even if it were true.
As I recall, at one point during his time here there was precisely one offensive player in the NFL that had played for Rodriguez, and he had converted to fullback in the pros after playing defense at WVU.
The general opinion on the board about that fact, and a quite reasonable opinion if you ask me, was that it was pretty impressive work by RichRod to get that kind of offensive production for so many years out of fairly limited talent. Why isn't that also the view on Borges?
But what will gorgeous Al do without Space Coyote to defend him against all of us mental midgets? I mean we really showed our ignorance not understanding that 27 for 27 was brilliant play calling . If only we were more cerebral to comprehend the complexities of how to shit away a game.
"completely missing the point".
Show me the time that SC ever called it "brilliant" playcalling. I'll wait.
27 for 27! Penn State! Akron! Uconn! You guys, those are the only arguments we need! FIRE BORGESSSS!!!
You show me the time I ever said "FIRE BORGESSSS" and I will show you what you requested. Is that fair?
'general douchbaggery,' along with the others. If you are smarter than Borges, please give us all the details and illustrated justifications, not just the criticism.
Well who is going to defend 2nd and 12 now?
after I read your post.
I can't remember now but I'm like 95% figuratively sure that SC used this line sarcastically in his rant.
Well...I'd be bummed if he left the board. I don't necessarily agree with his aggregate opinion re: Borges. However, I do like some of the breakdowns and assessments he provides, and - I must admit - I have learned quite a bit from his contributions.
It's one thing to say: "I don't like Borges because he sucks." And, that really brings the overall content of the board down because it's inflammatory and uninformative.
It’s another thing to say: “I don’t trust Borges. His Resume seems hit-and-miss and inconsistent. I question some of the play calling he’s made, given the defensive alignments. And, I don’t think he’s a good player developer because I don’t see our offensive players improving.” Those are debatable points – all of which I’ve enjoyed reading SC’s commentary on.
So, SC – Please know that while I don’t always agree with you, I greatly appreciate your insight and knowledge.
Agreed, even if you don't share his viewpoint, having more knowledgeable folks on the board makes it such a better place. When I read really far down into the comments, it's usually because I'm looking for posts like SC's that give more details about what's going on at an advanced level but understandable to the layman like myself. Now, I think MGrowOld (or MGrowWorld as my brain reads it) raised a fair-seeming question asking if there's anything Borges does that he disagrees with, because everything he said seemed to be a bit one-sided. However, I think that was in response to the situation in which there was a flood of criticism against Borges.
I'd like to keep seeing his posts, but there's always his blog if he's done here.
Space Coyote IS Al Borges. They are both more knowledgeable than the nouveau pitchfork and torches MGoCrowd. I enjoy his perspective and would/will miss the insight.
Isn't great when you can write off those you disagree with as the "nouveau pitchfork and torches MGoCrowd". Or characterize those who might disagree with Space Coyote about Borges (or Lord be, even agree with Brian from time-to-time) as sheep. Of course the irony of such aspersions is that they occur in a thread chastizing those for doing the very same thing. Space Coyote is a great contributor, but this thread quickly devolved into name-calling by the Borges loyalists. And ancedotal stories about the opinions of random SEC fans doesn't pass for fact any more than the opinions it was intended to refute.
dont blame him. But i hope he continues his twitter because that is gold
I respect his football knowledge, but he is arrogant as hell. This is a blog..you are not getting professional opinions here. I don't need an expert to tell me most peoples opinions here suck. I don't care if some jagoff high school football coach thinks he knows everything and everyone else should shut the hell up. If he feels that strongly he should start his own blog and have a rule that no coaches can be criticized. You are all morons because blah blah execution blah blah experience.
Well said. He's been getting pretty snarky lately.
Who got stomped in an argument by him using things like "facts" and "reason."
But hey, embrace the sucky, unprofessional opinions if that's what interests you.
had an arguement with the guy. I have maybe responded to 1 or 2 of his posts max.. and never back and forth. I don't feel the need to force my opinions on others..which was my point. Your point..is spoken like somoene who doesn't have a clue what the hell he is talking about.
Sounds like you'd rather have short, misinformed, feelings in the moment, off the top of your head posts by people than well thought out discussion. To each their own.
I was editing it to take the last part out , but I changed my mind and put it back. Again, you have no clue what the hell you are talking about. Please keep making stupid assumptions though, that's a great contribution.
And left the typos in. In posts calling people stupid.
That's all. Word.
There are a disturbing collection of individuals who have never suffered an independent thought that want to laugh at Borges for running the ball with a lead. These are the same geniuses who ridiculed Charly Weiss for not running the clock during one of Michigan's epic ND comebacks. You can't have it both ways genius. Killing clock was the smart move. Sometimes crazy stuff just happens.
Thats the hard part about being a coach. At times you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I've stood on those sidelines before and had that helpless feeling as a coach because 1) you can't play for them 2) telling them what to do is only 20% of the battle. If Devin would've been out there slinging the ball around while playing with a late lead and threw a pick, that would've been Borges' fault too and to the fan base he's still an idiot. Lose-Lose. I guess thats why coaches don't read blog comments lol
actually throwing the ball to try to get a game winning first down was a smart move. it would have been wide open. however, weis tried to throw a long pass and score another TD in order to run up the score (imo) and he got burned. and deservedly so.
Your mature, thoughtful, detailed, knowledgeable posts would be greatly missed. Don't let a certain vocal contingent with none of these qualities run you off this board.
Before you were banned?
Ghost of, phonetics man, they are your friend
Attitudes are contagious. Those few emotional and ignorant fans rub off on others. While I havent been here for years, I've been here longer than you and I can tell you that the pessimistic feel of the board was not always the case. Its been transitioning towards that since Akron and has not stopped ever since. Even when we win, its just like we lost. This is why others are a lot more aggravated by it than you.
do you even remember the board during any of the RichRod years?
I'm glad you're qualified to get inside another person's head and distinguish if they're angry or upset.
There's a reason this thread hasn't been downvoted, most people here think Space Coyote is a level headed individual, well spoken individual who's opinions are well thought of around here, if he leaves it's just another istance of this blog getting to popular for its own good and bringing to low hanging fruit around (which is/has already happened.)