Sorry...I got a Derrick Green Question. Let's call it DG post # 134 on this board

To be honest I agree with your post. I really hope he commits, but I don't feel like he is the absolute stud that I would expect from the nations best RB

I'm not an expert on these matters, but I'm pretty sure recruiting services don't just use highlight reels for their evaluations of players; otherwise, everybody would be a 5* (except for Ryan Potter... he'd be a 6*).

A) You HAVE a DG question. You don't "got" a DG question.

B) You watched a youtube video a high schooler made. Those who are paid to evaluate high school players have seen DG in person and evaluated him as a high level, blue chip player. He has scholorship offers to play football at nearly everywher ein the country. Your opinion genuinely means absolutely nothing at all.

''I'm not questioning the scouting of him,''

Clearly you are.

I have no problem with you saying this, just because I think there is way to much put into all high school player rankings.  I dare someone to bring up their post from 4 years ago where they say Will Cambel would only manage to crack the starting line up and be mediocre by his Sr. year.  How about those people who were more upset at losing Shavoderick Beaver than gaining Denard? 

Sure, overall its more likely a higher rated player will do good, but these are 18 year olds playing high school.  Some kids work harder, some have growth spurts, some were just over rated.  Can't ever tell for sure.

...the same thoughts.  I find Deveon Smith's tape far more impressive but I am willing to defer to the experts on this and if they say Green is the top RB in the land, I want him in the class.

Highlight mixtapes are the most reliable way to analyze a player's abilities. That's why I'm hoping Michigan takes a good look at this kid:

What gets me excited about him is the improvements he has made. I think they said sophomore year he was a 5'8" 260 lb offensive lineman. Junior year, he turns into a chizzled running back with decent highlights. Senior year, he turns into an even chizzled-er running back with a much more impressive tape. Now imagine that work ethic with our coaching staff and the o-line we are building.

Seemed to get a lot of love due to his recent UA practice and game performance, so there's another nugget of positive info against good competition.   I personally liked hearing that he is a monster workout madman and overall hard worker.  But every recruit is an enigma wrapped in a mystery until they get on campus, practice, and perform.    

This kid was the #1 one back on a team full of great backs on the East squad of the AA game.  He is an absolute beast and plays against the highest level of competition there is.  His work ethic will only make him better.  Don't fool yourself into thinking that this kid is "not that great" for the chance we do not land him. 

I have been similarly not blown away by the highlights.  He's not Dillon Baxter (who, flameout or not, was a damn exciting h.s. player).  However, a friend of mine watched a whole game of Green's and said that he's the type of back who wears you down over the course of a game, so I don't think his highlights do him justice. 

Derrick Green flashes acceleration and speed in his video but it is hard to see. For example, when denard runs the ball, 50% of the time he is not going full speed since he is waiting for his blocks to develope. That is why you don't see much in Green's highlight video. Also, his competition is better than Smith's, as much as I like watching Smith's tape.

EDIT: his senior tape is a lot better than his junior

I watched a few of his games this year, seeing that I live in Richmond, VA.  Many of the guys who have been around the city their entire lives aren't that impressed with him, but some of that may just be coming from all of the hype that he's been getting.  They have a very stacked high school team considering the area, yet he was really the only option they had.  Their coaches aren't very good at playcalling (think Mike DeBord) so their offense consists of 1st down: Green right.  2nd down: Green left.  He has an offensive line that is dominant in the league as well which always helps the run game.  IIRC he had one terrible game and it was the only team that keyed on him the entire game successfully, and had the talent to do so.  He ran for something like 70 yards.  The people in the area who follow (ie the grown men who go to all of their alma maters HS games) say he isn't very fast and doesn't have a lot of wiggle, but is a tough runner between the tackles.  TBH that's what I've seen while watching his tape, so I am a little more excited about Smith.

His senior video shows much improvement from his junior film:

Might as well post it since everyone is referring to it, right?

Funny but I thought the same thing about both Dunn and Green.  This leads me to realize I'm expecting to see a Barry Sanders-like elusiveness in highlights.  If you watch Jeremy Gallon's high school highlights, they'll be far more to your liking/expectation.

Have faith in the analsyses by the coaches, as they see the players up close.

Obvious Fred Jackson inflated comparison aside, I think his running style is similar to Matt Forte or Frank Gore. He has power, good feet, and can catch out of the backfield. Perfect for our offense.

He's not going to stop and start wow you like Reggie Bush, but it seems like a 220-lb back that's all shoulders and thighs that can hit the hole with speed is exactly what we need.

Thomas Rawls has already kind of shown us what a heavy back will do when you start getting fancy at the line of scrimmage.

I've said this before, but I think Green is only going to turn out to be the #1 back to come out of this class if he goes to a place where the offensive line can blow holes open for him - like an Alabama, a Wisconsin, or (I hope) a Michigan.  He's not the type of back who can create yards for himself if there aren't any holes.

If Michigan puts together an offensive line like Wisconsin's recent vintage, Green might be a Montee Ball type of performer.

If Michigan's offensive line continues to perform like the 2012 version, then he will just be a slightly better version of Thomas Rawls.

Everybody's highlight tapes look good.  I'm pretty sure that's why they are called "highlight tapes."

Except for a few of those on the board who see things through a coach's eye, we have no idea how good someone really is, or how they "predict" at the college level, until they actually get there.  It's fun to specuate, though.

In the AA game he had like 53 yards on 9 carries for a nice little 5.9 YPC average against the best competition he's likely faced to date.  Showed good burst through the whole, ran with some power, broke off a few long runs.  He's not a guy that's going to wow you with great moves.  He's a one cut and go downhill runner.  I have no idea if he's he's going to be any good or not, but I'll trust this coaching staff, all the other coaching staffs, and the evaluators.

The guy he reminds me of is Jamal Lewis.  He's got those same short choppy steps that are good for wading through the trash at the line.

Thread jack, because I need to vent. I like listening to 97.1 most of the time, but today's topic with Voldemort is really pissing me off.

Agreed. He's not nearly as impressive as the RB in the AT&T commercial doing the backflip. Too bad Stoops beat us to him.

When you watch running back film, you all expect to see jukes, cuts on a dime and things of that nature. This is a north south runner with great feet who isn't going to be brought down by the first tackler. I see a kid who follows his blocks well, and gets up field quickly. The explosion he showed at the AA game against top flight kids was enough for me.

I looked over Green's tape.  What people have to realize is the comptition he's playing against.  The teams he is playing against are bigger and more athletic than other recruit's tape.  For instance go look at 2015 target Damien Harris' tape.  Dude looks like a man playing against boys.  Not taking anything away from his abilities (he's a stud) but he should stand out playing against that level of competition.  IMO, Green is a quality run between the tackles back.

What is the topic on 97.1 you speak of? What is Mikey spewing today?

So...

What's your Derrick Green question?

Don't ask. I had too much time and tried this just for fun. Here is my breakdown of Derrick Green. I also did an amateur breakdown on DeVeon Smith, Ty Isaac, Thomas Rawls, and Kevin Grady. If anybody, for some reason, wants more, I might post it.

Derrick Green

Weaknesses

• Number one is he has bad balance and therefore lacks any kind of lateral agility
• That can be partially explained by his high pad level.
• Another separate weakness is his lack of vision

Strengths

• Runs with authority
• Hits the hole hard and fast
• Has good straight line burst
• Does have a good power base, not entirely sure if he will put it to good use every time

Verdict: Hugely dependent upon a great O-line, he fits well with Michigan's philosophy of overpowering Ds

Metaphor: Wrecking ball. Or punch in the mouth. Mainly concerned with hitting you with power.

The ESPN scouting report(insider) also mentions that he just has to keep his pad level low and he'd be fine. And I also saw he was better in that aspect in his senior film. To me, he's not even a one-cut-and-go runner. Ty Isaac is. Derrick Green is more like a no-cut-and-go runner.

I kind of agree that nothing really jumps out about him, but there must be something there for multiple services to have him highly rated. What is a little weird to me is that for the #1 RB there isn't alot of hype surrounding him like there is most #1 position players. However I think the combo of him and D. Smith could be deadly.

I know. I was expecting someone to say "HELLO!" as he flipped over a DB. And then for Bob Stoops to come walking up like a dope and say hello in a rapey voice.

His highlight tape is pretty filthy.  I'm guessing that you're not that impressed because you're used to seeing Rawls and Hopkins run all over pathetic competition.  Don't get me wrong--I think Rawls' tape is very impressive, and I still believe he could be our starting RB next year...

...but Green breaks loads of tackles in the reel, and breaks off some long runs where he outruns safeties and corners.  And he's not playing low level talent--those kids are big, strong, fast kids he's up against.  Not every run is a TD, but when I compare his tape to Rawls, Green is better, and I'll give you some comparisons:

• Green does a great job of FINDING the hole and getting upfield through the path of least resistance. Rawls runs where the play tells him to go, breaks the tackle of a tiny LB, and then outruns a pathetic defense.  Green's vision seems far superior to Rawls, who spends most of his tape just running straight ahead.  Look at how often Green moves laterally, how we waits for his blocks, and how he finds seams in the defense.  Rawls just steams forward.
• Green does have very good speed.  Look at the play that's snapped at 1:11.  While it's not a TD, he takes a pitch and beats the defense to the outside.  Notice the safety that attacks down and ends-up behind Green...that was a bad angle, but that's a fast safety who is used to making plays with that speed.  Rawls is the fastest guy on the field every play...which, if you've seen him play in the NCAA, should raise red flags about his competition in his reel.
• Green's tackle-breaking is more subtle than Rawls.  Rather than pinballing (running into players and bouncing off or knocking them over) Green frequently makes subtle lateral movements so that tacklers are sliding off of him or missing arm tackles.  Again, Rawls pounded his HS competition, but that won't happen often in D1 football (unless you're playing Purdue).
• Green is MUCH bigger than Rawls.  Rawls is 5-10, Green is 6-2.  They have a similar build, but Green is more toned and more powerful.  And I think he's just as fast, if not faster.  Watch the snap at 2:00--again, Green outruns the entire defense to the sideline.
• Rawls tends to run towards the open space; Green is comfortable staying in tighter spaces.  This has proven true in Rawls' career at Michigan--he bounces outside too early because he sees green.  In HS, that equalled in TDs.  In the B1G, that equals 2 yard gains that should have been 4 yard gains.  Look at the snap at 2:58 on Green's tape.  That run is more impressive than many of his TD runs.  The blocking is okay but the safety fills the running lane well; Green cuts behind a block and turns it into a gain.

I could go on, but the point is that Green spent his HS career doing the things that college backs need to be able to do, and Rawls spent his HS career running and over and around lesser competition.  As a result, Rawls is having to learn to play the game a different way; Green will be able to play the same way and be successful.  Both have impressive physical tools.  Green is a more polished back that's played tougher competition.  Also, I wouldn't discount the intangibles--clearly Green is known as a hard-worker and leader (he was picked as Captain of his Army AA team) and I think that gets packed into his evaluation.

All that said, I think Green will need some good blocking to be a star, and he should get it at Michigan.  Ty Isaac, IMO, can create more yards without help, but isn't going to move the pile.

Rawls's highlight tape was impressive because of all the big runs, but I still had questions about his ability.

I was not impressed by Stephen Hopkins's high school film.  It was pretty boring.

3:30 into his senior film says it all http://michigan.247sports.com/Article/New-senior-highlights-of-2013-Mich...

Ziff, will you ever learn?

And Derrick Green plays in a garbage district / division. They they play Godwin, John Marshall, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, Freeman etc. These are historically sorry teams. These are teams that good teams schedule for their homecoming games. I went to Varina class of 05 went to school with B Minor class of 06. When Hermitage played Varina he simply only got the yards that his OL gave him. He carried te ball 33 times for 114 yrds. There were plenty of times when he was one on one with the safety and he went down. The safety for Varina is 5'9 165.

My suggestion to you if you seriously think Rawls and Hopkins have better tapes is to never start a recruiting evaluation site cause neither of them is even in the same league as Derrick Green. Rawls is the most overhyped back I have ever seen at Michigan on message boards and Hopkins had what 10 career carries?

Who has a better tape. I'm jus debunking the theory that Green plays against good competition. Look at the records of the teams hermitage played against. And a lot of ppl don't even think he's the best RB in VA. That boy from LC Bird balled out this year and his team beat Hermitage in the playoffs

From the colonial district
http://www.maxpreps.com/m/league/default.aspx?leagueid=ef13a398-7a61-4c3...