Sometimes a 3 star is just a 3 star
Has anyone considered that these guys Harbaugh is offering may just be what they appear to be? Somewhat limited athletes who are smart and hard working? Every team needs the guys who let the playmakers "make plays". The ones who take on blocks, keep contain, and make sure tackles. A reccurent theme at these camps has been how underrated the trait of being a good follower is and maybe these guys those guys who will work hard and take to the coaching and be dependable on the field. The Ryan Van Bergens, Desmond Morgans, and Jordan Kovacs who are limited athletically but are vital to a team.
Yes, the team still needs those stars, but fortunately there is space left in the class and they tend to take less time to develop and see the field if you don't get them in this class. So maybethe guy who has built 2 NCAA teams into 11 game winners knows what parts you need and certain ones are easier to get when you are just starting out.
Don't act like you guys didn't think Harbaugh would dominate recruiting. I understand we haven't played a game yet, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
It's easy to get caught up with the stars, but remember he built Stanford on the backs of some unheralded recruits prior to attracting the 4 stars like Luck, Taylor, and Gaffney
I realize looking for things to worry/complain about is a fan tradition here, but you seriously need to calm down.
Oh no! We don't have any 5 starz in our class when our new head coach hasn't even coached his first Fall practice here yet much less a game!
People will believe what they want to believe and justify things any way they can in order to fit their narrative.
5 star commits: WOO studies show stars are a good indication of success!
2 star commits: Yeah well look at JJ Watt trust Harbaw woo!
It's all a fucking crapshoot.
Yeah it's really too bad that Harbaugh's track record with 2/3 star recruits isn't any different than the norm.
Oregon has won 10+ games for 7 years in a row because the guys who were on Mike Belotti's staff and then Chip Kelly's and now Helfrich's knew how to build a program. MSU has won 53 games in 5 years after Dantonio's first three years. Gary Patterson has nine 10-win seasons at TCU this century. After getting three seasons to build a program, Art Briles has won 40 games in 4 seasons at Baylor.
Harbaugh had three years to build his program at Stanford. In year 4 they won 12 games. Then he left, but those guys he recruited were still on campus. They won 11 games, then they won 12 games, then they won 11 games again. By last season they had pretty much all graduated and Stanford won 8 games.
Are you going to bet against these guys going forward just because Rivals says their guys aren't as good as the ones going to other schools?
"Are you going to bet against these guys going forward just because Rivals says their guys aren't as good as the ones going to other schools?"
That's not really my point. My "crapshoot" comment was referring to the fact that people will already have their minds made up about recruits without even really knowing anything about them. Maybe crapshoot wasn't the best word to use. Some will say "look what Harbaugh did with them in the past." Others will say "then why didn't Saban or any other great program offer him?" Some will say "look how JJ Watt turned out" and others will say "studies show that stars matter."
In the end, none of us know how these guys will turn out until they get some time in the program. But then I guess we wouldn't have things to discuss on this here blog.
Logged in to NEG...
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
And for the "stars don't matter" crowd.
Nick Chubb- 5*
Vernon Hargreaves- 5*
Myles Garrett- 5*
JT Barrett- 4*
Laquan Treadwell- 5*
Fournette, Nkemdiche, Jaylon Smith, Cravens, Henry, all 4-5 star guys.
they played on teams that averaged 3.8 losses last year. If you throw out JT Barrett (OSU NC season), the average losses go up to 4.25 per team.
Contrast that with the average losses last season of three teams, none of which have even cracked the top 20 in recruiting rankings (Rivals) over the past five years in TCU, Baylor, and Michigan State (ugh): these three teams averaged 1.6 losses per team in 2014.
While I agree a program needs top players/athletes, certainly coaching plays a huge role.
On that note, if you HAD to choose a head coach for Michigan out of the two aforementioned groups (I removed Meyer and Dantonio since they are Big Ten coaches):
1) Muschamp
2) Richt
3) Miles
4) Sarkisian
5) Freeze
6) Sumlin
7) Briles
8) Patterson
Which is your choice?
I know I am going with Patterson first, and Briles second.
that's probably related to the fact that hardly ANYONE has done crap in the last 8 years.
That's when coaching comes into the equation, 4-5 stars matter now more than they ever have in years.
Wow are you saying that there are 5 star recruits who turned out to be good?
Nobody is saying stars don't matter. That's a straw man argument. This coach has had success with players who were not the highest rated as recruits and the guys who are committing are players he has personally coached in camps.
I scoffed at Derrick Green's 5 star when I saw his HS film. He clearly was not (and is not) an elite level RB.
I wonder what crack they were smoking when someone evaluated him.
Stars are meaningless. Most of these writers for Scout etc, never played organized football at a high level.
They know jack shit.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
Let the other teams try to cram those recruits into places they just don't fit. Go blue!!!!!!
I wish there were no stars at all.
A lot of these guys rated lower have a chip on their shoulder and work extremely hard.
We have had plenty of 4's and 5's the last 10 years, and it hasn't done anything for us. I love Harbaugh's approach of spotting someone who hopefully has a work ethic.
But wasnt Mike Hart a 3 star. He turned into the all-time leading rusher in UM history!! Also, the JJ Watt references were mentioned as well. I will take Harbaugh's insight over any recruiting service or other nerd who evaluates HS talent.
To be fair, I think that's actually part of the beauty of how Harbaugh appears to do this - some of these kids are not highly touted but all the same potentially have roles to play, even if less heralded, on a Harbaugh team. Some of them may very well be what they are, as the OP says, but I do trust this staff to get them to a place where they haven't been, even if it isn't future Pro Bowl candidate - more than that, the best contributor they can be. Between recruiting and potential development, I tend to think we're in a good place right now.
*Weaver. DeWeaver is the quarterback committed to MSU. Easy mistake, but an important one.
Maybe you were talking about Rashad Weaver?
Seriously - why should we trust this Harbaugh guy at evaluating talent? What recruiting website does he run?
Rivals, Scout and 247 - 4 EVER!!!
could wait and see what happens with recruiting before offering some of these kids. I would think a kid with the AFA as his biggest offer should be available around signing day.
to make him our "must get" coach. He's only done it from USD to Stanford to the Super Bowl. Cat knows how to get talent to gel. Simple as that. These kids are being offered for a number of reasons. Let's not forget about how Bo built modern day UM football by going hard after kids like the Mallorys, Cannovinos, Hammersteins, Rienholds, et. al. Somehow he was able to field some rather decent teams w/o chasing those going to OU, AL, USC, ND, etc. Wonder how he did that?
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000320664/article/yearbyyear-look-…
Five years from now (maybe sooner) we will know whether these camps/under radar recruits were a stroke of mad genius or just a filling of the roster. I'm with the guy above that "in Harbaugh I trust."
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Colin-Kaepernic…
Slide to the right - his comparable was David Cone.
Go Blue!