Something to be proud of; the reaction of the students and fans.

Submitted by BlueFab5 on

I am a Michigan fan from Philadelphia, PA.  I did not attend Michigan, nor do I have any affiliation to the school and/or state.  I love the University of Michigan.  Anyone one who knows me knows of my affection for the university.  While I have never been more embarrassed of those running the program, I have never been more proud of the fan base and students of the university.

When Joe Paterno was fired from Penn State there were riots in the streets, not because of outrage stemming from the events leading up to his dismissal, but because of blind support of the football program and coach.

We all know what happened during the game Saturday and the gross mismanagement of the situation since.  Here is the reaction.

https://csg.umich.edu/upetition/p/fire-brandon/

http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/fire-brandon-rally-set-6-pm-tonight-diag

http://mvictors.com/the-mood/

GO BLUE!

saveferris

September 30th, 2014 at 2:05 PM ^

While I appreciate your point, I think you're giving us too much credit.  If Bo had been on the sideline and mismanaged that situation as badly as Brady Hoke did, the fanbase would be a lot more forgiving.  Of course, it's impossible to imagine a competent coach like Bo Schembechler ever mishandling something like that so egregiously.

DavidP814

September 30th, 2014 at 2:20 PM ^

As you acknowledged in your last sentence, I think the point that national media and others miss when they assert that Hoke's record is the main reason for the uproar is...  A football coach with a 5-0 record wouldn't miss the likely probability that his QB sustained a concussion on any play.  Also, a coach with a 5-0 record, if a similar situation did occur, probably wouldn't be so desperate as to carry on the charade that has been going on over the last few days.

My view is that if the football team was 5-0 and Hoke felt no pressure, the Monday press conference would have been handled much differently on his end--with a simple admission and apology instead of further obfuscation.  Brady Hoke may be a good man, and I don't question all the people who have vouched for his character based on their intercations with the man during his tenure at UM.  However, desperation seems to have driven Hoke into a course of action that is less than honorable in this situation.  

I would say a part of me feels bad for the guy, but when you accept the position of HBC at UM, and the $3M+ annual salary that goes with it, you also must accept every valid criticism that has been directed at him over the past 48-72 hours.

saveferris

September 30th, 2014 at 2:40 PM ^

Yeah, I just remember when the JoePa riots were going down and the sentiment around here was akin to, "oh those crazy Penn State fans, that would NEVER happen here.", which is a very dangerous attitude to harbor.  The harsh truth is that fan devotion to Bo Schembechler was every bit as passionate as that by Penn State to Paterno.  It's a credit to Bo and his character that he had the humility to acknowledge when it was time for him to step aside and let someone take the reins of the program he built.  Paterno's ego and hubris had him stay on far past the time when he could effectively manage that program at the cost of his and Penn State's reputation.

We are very lucky to have had a coach like Bo to be the caretaker of our program and the hole he's left since he passed is still clearly felt.  A tough hole to fill.

LJ

September 30th, 2014 at 2:13 PM ^

Oh please.  You know no one would be clamoring for a firing if Hoke was a successful coach.  This situation is a convenient moment for the fanbase to scream for what they want without admitting that it's really all about the wins and losses.

BlueFab5

September 30th, 2014 at 2:18 PM ^

If he was successful he would also be competent, and if he was competent the situation would not have occurred.

RichRod was not successful at Michigan; however, he was competent and put the health and safety of the players first.  When his job was on the line he removed Denard for an entire half at the threat of a possible concussion.

 

LJ

September 30th, 2014 at 2:28 PM ^

I absolutely agree that the RR Illinois game was an example of a coach risking his job to ensure that his players are safe--and he did the right thing to hold Denard out.  But do you seriously mean to suggest that a successful coach could not possibly have left Shane in after the hit?  Being successful as a coach and protecting player safey are not perfectly correlated.

I'm not defending Brady in any way--I'm just pointing out that the fanbase is not so rightous as everyone is trying to suggest.  Brandon is all about his bottom line (the money) and the fans are all about theirs (the wins).

2427_Couzens

September 30th, 2014 at 2:38 PM ^

I think what he's saying, which I believe as well, is that a successful, competent coach would not have been in a position to have had this happen the way it did.  There will always be a situation in this game, no matter the coach, where a player takes a nasty hit to the head.  But a competent coach would have known that his QB was hurt, would have taken him out, and would not have re-inserted him.

LJ

September 30th, 2014 at 2:45 PM ^

I'm saying there absolutely could be a winning coach who would have left Shane in.  The fact that a coach is successful on the field does not mean he will act in the best interest of the safety of his players.  And that coach would not be getting raked over the coals to nearly the same extent that Hoke has.

Ric8057

September 30th, 2014 at 3:08 PM ^

IIRC Rich Rod kept Arizona's QB in the game after he took a shot to the head a couple years ago. The QB was vomiting on the sidelines and the announcers had a similar reaction on air to the Minny game, saying that he had no reason to be in the game.

Up until Saturday, not one person said anything about Hoke other than how much he cares for his players. The second he goes sub .500 all of that is forgotten. There were rumors that he may have helped cover up a sexual assault fergodsakes and there wasn't 1/100th of the outrage on this site as there has been this week.

I am highly disappointed in what occurred Saturday and every day since. Hoke probably deserved to go whether Shane's injury occurred or not. Brandon, for sure. The thing that I find equally icky is how the fans are using this kid's head injury as a cheap guise to fire Hoke now. I find it impossible to believe this level of "won't someone think of the children!!" would be present if M was still undefeated.

 

MeanJoe07

September 30th, 2014 at 2:53 PM ^

This is so dumb. Why do people keep saying "Well If we were 5 - 0 fans wouldnt be asking for him to be fired".  Uh...we're not 5-0. When should fans ask for a coaching change?  During an inconvenient moment?  Are you  trying to prove that Michigan fans ONLY care about our record and nothing else? Thats obviously false. Its not that black and white. All of what has happened are SYMPTOMS of an inept/unsucessful coach and athletic director.  A successful coach with a great record wouldn't display poor game management like Hoke in the first place.  1. Being a successful coach and 2. being unable to manage a game and have a general awareness of your players and what is going on are mutually exclusive so your hypothetical scenario of all else equal except for Hoke being successful doesn't make sense.  In fact, If this was the only negative situation surrounding Hoke then people would still be mad, but they would give him another chance or two. However, Its a pattern now. This is one of 100 things that have already gone wrong.  They are adding up and now people are pissed.  I guraentee, whether sarcastic or serious, at least 12 more people are going to say "well if he had been an above .500 MAC coach we wouldn't be asking for a fire" or "well if we were at least more competitive in games" or "Well If he wore a headset and did more than clapped and lost weight and was a more dynamic speaker or" etc. etc.  What argument or point are you even trying to make?  Coaches shouldnt be judged on their record? Things don't happen in isolation and  previous incidents inflence current opinion? 

LJ

September 30th, 2014 at 3:09 PM ^

First, I totally disagree with the notion that a successful coach wouldn't put his players at risk.  I bet you an internet dollar we can find plenty of successful coaches who put player interests at risk and while winning lots of games.  This is a possibly less severe example, but Nick Saban screws plenty of players over by oversigning and then cutting players.  No one cares in that fanbase, because he's winning national championships.

The reason it bothers me is that people are not calling this incident "the last straw" that means Hoke should be fired.  They're saying that this is unacceptable coach behavior that alone warrants a firing.  For example, the OP says we're better than the PSU fans because they protested the Paterno firing.  I'm saying we're no different.  If Hoke won the B1G last year and the program was rocking and he was then fired over this, we would be protesting just the same.

MeanJoe07

September 30th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^

I can see your point now.  I disagreed initially because I was looking at it from a different perspective in terms of success or competent coaching. I think the Morris situation shows  Hoke's lack of awareness and football intelligence which I think Saban and some other asshole coaches still have.  Hoke seems like a nice dude that cares for his player's well being, but  lacks the skills to be a good manager of a team.  This current situation is a symptom of that along with his stubborness to doing a spread punt, constant lack of execution, slow tempo etc etc.  He speaks in generalities and platitudes.  I think he knows a lot about offensive line, but that's about it, so he speaks in these generalities to compensate for lack of specific knowledge. He is a nice guy and works hard so that has landed him a few head coaching jobs, but that can only carry you so far.  Personally this is why I'd like to see him fired and the Morris situation was the last straw for me.  I could accept the wins and losses to a degree, but when the program shows a lack of awareness or communication or whatever the hell you wanna call it with a player's safety, then that is serious.  That  goes beyond wins and losses for me.    Before you thought at least Brady was warm and fuzzy and aware of his players health.  Now there's no positive to grab on to.  I dont believe he intentionally risked Shane's health and I think most fans know that. This incident isnt a fireable offense on its own, but if he had intentionally risked his health, then ANY coach should get fired no matter what their record.

Your point  and others like it just seem so obvious that I don't get why its brought up so often. It can be applied to anything in life that is a product. For example  I if you get a new phone and its awesome  except for one sticky button, you wont complain about the phone so much.  If the button is sticky and  AND the phone sucks... you'll probably bitch about the button a lot.  Michigans product on the field sucks AND the coach sucks and the AD sucks and the piped in music sucks and the prices suck, etc. etc.   If everything else was perfect, of course we wouldnt be as mad about the Shane incident.  It would look more like a one time thing instead of an endless pattern of incompetence.  Damn this is a long post.  I really should get a life and get back to work.  Damn this habit.

LJ

September 30th, 2014 at 3:54 PM ^

To use your example, what I see going on here is lots of people who have a shitty phone, with a sticky button, saying "I would never tolerate a phone with a sticky button!  I'm a better phone owner than that!  I am outraged about this sticky button!"  When, in reality, if the sticky button was the only problem and the phone kicked ass, they would be on that phone 24/7 convincing themselves that the sticky button isn't much of a problem.

That's a bit hypocritical to me, and I was just trying to point that out.

LBSS

September 30th, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^

This is true, and it goes along with the post on Deadspin the other day pointing out that the problem with Michigan's attendance woes hasn't been Dave Brandon's commercialism and anything-for-a-buck attitude, it's been that the team is painful to watch, even (sometimes) when we win. 

Speaking only for myself because maybe I'm alone in this: I dislike Brandon as much as the next fan, I hope he's fired and I hope never to see ads on the scoreboard or be forced to buy another $5 bottle of water for sale when I can't bring in my own because terrorism. I hope never to hear Rihanna in the Big House again. All that stuff would gross me out if we were winning, too. But if we were challenging for the B1G title I would be a much happier camper in general, and more willing to let the crass stuff slide. 

Similarly, I think a big reason Hoke and Brandon have played everything so incredibly poorly since Saturday is that they're both afraid for their jobs -- they know the pitchforks and torches are coming out and Brandon in particular is in full-on CYA mode. If we'd been winning, my guess is Hoke would have felt a lot more comfortable saying, "We made a terrible mistake, we're going to look at the tape to see exactly what went wrong and take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. We apologize to Shane for putting him in such a dangerous situation, it's our responsibility to keep him as safe as we can and we didn't do that." And I'd think, "Yep, you done fucked up but it's good to hear you taking responsibility, Coach." 

Without the program struggles, there's also no way this would be getting as much national media attention as it has. Again, less pressure on Brandon and Hoke --> less fear --> more appropriate response to a terrible decision.

As it is, my torch is lit. Clean 'em out.

bronxblue

September 30th, 2014 at 2:22 PM ^

While I commend the Daily and sites like this for keeping the focus on this issue, all of this activism isn't "that" far away from being a mob looking for blood wherever they can find it.  I'm happy that students are making their voice heard, but a bunch of angry college students screaming in the diag that they want the AD and coach fired doesn't inspire me all that much that this is some altruistic endeavor by them to protect the safety and health of their peers as much as the fact they want some incompetent guys kicked out of their jobs and for the team they root for to start winning more games.

Ric8057

September 30th, 2014 at 3:24 PM ^

Agree 100%. I am all for dumping Hoke based on his record. Yes, what happened with Shane was grossly irresponsible and in some ways, despicable. However, this mummer's farce is creatiing a lasting narrative of Hoke contradictory to what he has built up his entire career. I just don't see this mistake as an excuse to ruin a guys life.

ijohnb

September 30th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^

this to the Sandusky thing in any sense, even to contrast the reaction, is crazy.  Some people on here have lost their minds.

bronxblue

September 30th, 2014 at 3:18 PM ^

This being the internet, we might as well add an addendum to the Goodwin law that says in the context of sports discussions, every cock up by an administration will inevitably come to be compared to Penn State and kids being sexually assaulted on school grounds for a decade+.

Ivan Karamazov

September 30th, 2014 at 4:43 PM ^

That the root of both scandals/reactions is the same; an irrational devotion to the idea of what a football program should be outside of winning games.

That being said I agree that the magnitude and sheer horror of the Sandusky trial and fallout is much worse, and has some key factual differences compared to our current scandal.

UMVAFAN

September 30th, 2014 at 2:46 PM ^

I've never been one to miss a Michigan game either live or televised. Honestly, the first game I ever missed was "The Horror" because I didn't have the BTN at the time (new network) and decided I'd rather go hiking than sit in a bar and watch Michigan destroy a I-AA school. One of the only other times I didn't watch the game was last week vs Minnesota because my mom was in town and I decided to hang out with her and ignore the game (and she would've totally understood and been fine with me watching the game and was surprised that I didn't turn it on once). It's sad that I didn't really care that I was missing the game, but now I've been invited to the University of Virginia vs Pitt football game this Saturday and kickoff is at 7:30pm. Do I skip watching the UM game two weeks in a row? Does this make me a bad fan? I've never missed back to back games, but at this point, I'm expecting a loss and don't want to torture myself.

WestQuadElevator

September 30th, 2014 at 3:05 PM ^

A large portion of the fanbase was already calling for Brandon and Hoke to be fired, and would still be doing so if this whole thing never happened. Dress it up any way you want, but patting yourself and the rest of the fanbase on the back for not being blindly loyal to the program is just ridiculous.

93Grad

September 30th, 2014 at 3:09 PM ^

the program accountable for the missteps re: player safety, I still have to wonder if there would be near this level of outrage if the program were 5-0 and coming off a B!G championship.  The same thing was in play when Moeller got canned. Sure what he did was embarrassing but if he had won more I don't think the clamour to fire him would have been nearly as loud.

psulionstorm07

September 30th, 2014 at 3:39 PM ^

The two situations aren't even remotely comparable in that respect. 1. Jerry wasn't exactly diddling little boys out on the field during a nationally televised game for the entire world to see. 2. If Bo was coach and this same incident happened, there would be a lot less outrage, if any. 3. You guys already despise Brandon and Hoke, so a comparatively minor incident like this is more of the cherry on top of the crap sundae. When someone, who has always been revered not only as a great coach but also a great person and humanitarian, and what they've built get absolutely blown up in the worst scandal in college football history overnight due to some asshole who was supposed to be his best friend...it goes beyond a point where people are able to respond coherently and in a thoughtful way due to mass shock. So please don't even try to pretend what we went through as a fan base to this. Not only is it an insult to us, but an insult to the rape victims by comparing their lifetime pain to what is probably a minor concussion. Yeah you guys suck now, but you'll be back once you clean house and make good hires. As a side note, you are able to compare on one point: The bumbling PR response of your athletic administration. You'd think they would have learned, but I guess not.

Mr. Elbel

September 30th, 2014 at 4:04 PM ^

Eh. Comparing an idol like Paterno who was at a program for 40+ years and that of Hoke, who is in his first season and has accomplished exactly nothing of significance (unless you count beating VT that first year THAT significant) is really not a good comparison at all. I see your point, though.