I think it's quite obvious that the panic button that everyone had been pressing has been thrown in the trash can for this years recruiting class.
So...3 spots left?
I'm not panicking, but that would indeed be a reverse RichRod. We took a largely defensive class last year, so picking up only three offensive recruits would not be good. I don't expect this to happen at all, but it's the kind of thing that would inspire a light version of "A Decimated Offense" to be written.
*Shutters thinking of 2008*
i'll take an ok recruiting class out of this one but I'm really suprised michigan didn't learn the first time they recruited on side of the ball heavily and not the other. It will have negative effects in 3 years. (cough cough our D this year) ( i know GERG was the detinator of all the NUKs by Jhackney but they were also all young and inexperienced on that side of the ball) I would like to see our class finish strong and mostly on the offensive side. Maybe a DT in there (cooper please). But next year is the year I'm looking forward to. We need to see if hoke can generate the interest back into Michigan that use to be there. I would like another 2002/ 2003.
I don't think recruiting one side of the ball more heavily will have as big of an impact in 3 years as some think. For the first time in what seems like forever most of these guys will actually REDSHIRT. I know, can't believe it either. The fact that they will lessens the impact felt by recruiting because most classes will actually start to overlap one another.
By this I mean our elite recruits who play early will be Sophomores or Juniors playing with the previous class on the field as redshirt Sophmores and Juniors. These in coming recruits will actually have time to develop, so we don't have to hit a home run right away with each one. So thanks RR for leaving behind some talent.
I'm probably wrong about this, so please correct me, but wouldn't this make things worse? If we didn't redshirt many kids from last year's offensive class and we do redshirt kids from this group (and next year's group), that will be two years during which we'll have essentially no seniors. Am I missing something?
Nice post with some solid information and predictions. The problem with us taking that many offensive guys next year is that the 2012 class is loaded with defensive talent in both Michigan and Ohio. I agree we need some more skill postion players on offense, but I think you have to take the best available football player as long as you have a capable bodies at each position.
If we have 16 scholarships to give next year, we will not give one to a fullback.
Thanks for putting this together. It's a lot of work, could be a thread upon itself. Let's use your 16 schollie's, there is a lot of defensive talent in Mich and Ohio and it will be interesting who we get. I am not sure we need a RB next year, if we get Rawls this year. We do need a FB or TE/FB hybrid. We definitely needs some guards and absolutely need a QB.
Does anyone think Heitzman could fill this hybrid TE/FB position? It would make some sense since he seems to be a bit under sized on either side of the ball.
Why exactly do you think he's undersized? He's listed at 6'3", 237 on Rivals. The other services list his weight a little lower, but most of those are also pretty old, and kids this age put on weight pretty quickly. I'd be surprised if he showed up to Ann Arbor less than 235, and he could be over 240.
For a freshman DE, that's not undersized at all. It's not an instant playmaker, but it's bigger than Roh was when he showed up, and he started from day one.
That said, I'm not against trying him on offense as a tight end or H-back, but not because he's undersized.
He is far from being a little guy but he is not a monster either. Just a shot in the dark based on watching a little film on the kid is all. He is athletic and pretty physical at the point of attack and think he may fit this spot pretty well is more my point. At his current size you could put a few more pounds on him and he would be ideal for this position which is also very important in this offense. I think this kid has a ton of potential FWIW.
Assuming Bryant is ours (which, like, I though Frost and Zettel were ours too), I agree that Fisher, or a solid replacement OT, is more important than an additional CB. We have young DBs, we have DBs in this class already, I'd like more good corners, but OL is thin.
If we only get Bryant, Posada and Miller at OL in this class, we need 4 or 5 for sure in the next class.
I agree and I was too slow . I need to know more priorities, forget about work until after NSD.
Agree. IMHO, Fisher and Bryant are the most important. We will have more time to reassess after NSD.
Very nicely put together. I have checked out our depth chart and i agree with everything completely. I've also been a big believer of not rebuilding but reloading. What i mean by that and you kind of covered it with the redshirts, was that when our seniors graduate i would rather have a Jr or a Soph filling in than a Freshman stepping into a position that he isn't ready for. i know this isn't really possible with the player leaving and one sided recruiting over the last 4 to 5 years but that would be nice. That team down south is a perfect example of what im talking about. they always have someone to fill in after one guy graduates. I hope that will be out future.
Also, don't forget Kerrigan is a preferred walk on as a fullback this year.
That would be Joey Kerridge. I wish Ryan Kerrigan was available.
...We do apparently have Posada coming in and Jack Miller is expected to play OL (despite the recruiting sites listing him as a DT). If we do get Chris Bryant we will have some depth for the future.
Jack Miller is also on offense.
We keep countess. I don't think it's in the bag yet.
Assuming we fill out this class. How many scholarships do we have for next years class? 15? 20?
By my count, I think we'll have 16.
Has anyone left the program due to the coaching change? Other than Tate I can't think of anyone. If someone did that could free up another scholarship. As long as they're not a valuable assest to the program at this time.
because of the Hoke hiring. He was academically ineligible and did seem to want to sit behind Denard for the remainder of his career IF he was ever reinstated to the team.
Tate actually was excited to stay once he heard Hoke was here! Either way, wish him the best, but like RR would always say, we need to focus on "who" plays for Michigan!
Our team will improve, and next year we will see much better results in recruiting. However, I feel this year, we are walking away with some talented guys. Also, let's not forget...we still have some time left to improve.
I must say, pretty impressive to get 3 recruits to commit on your first weekend host. Well played Hoke.
With Forcier's departure, I believe we have 21 slots.
I don't think Barnett is coming to MI.
My guesses for the other spots are Rawls, Fisher, Cooper, and a QB. I'd like to get Raven and/or McClure, but I think they're longshots.
You think we keep Fisher?
I know...it's a little optimistic, but I'm hoping Hoke works his magic.
Do you know when Cooper is announcing? Is he waiting till Signing Day?
just kidding...i read somewhere that Tom Savage was denied permission to speak to Michigan in regards to a transfer. woulf he even an option? he was a pretty good ball player out of HS and was going well at Rutgers before he got hurt. anyone hear anything on this?
I hope you are counting the OP's assumption that Clark, Bryant, and Willingham are in the bag so to speak. If this is the case, who do you think ends up at TE, Clark, Heitzman, or Beyer?
all the posts and boards say theyre all being brought in as LBs or DE
I do not believe that Heitzman is being brought in as a LB. And if Beyer and Clark are both LBs, and we get Willingham, that would give us 5 linebackers in this class, 1 DE (assuming Rock is a DT) and no TE. If we don't sign a TE in this class, I would hope one of Heitzman, Clark or Beyer would move to TE. My preference, in order, would be Beyer, Clark, then Heitzman.
I've been saying since the FNL segments that Beyer would make a good TE.
all the posts and boards say theyre all being brought in as LBs or DE
Yeah, I'm including the OP's assumption.
Heitzman is the most likely to play TE, I think.
we steal cooper this late in the process? I hope you're right.
I think our shot is as good as anyone's. He's friends with Hollowell and Countess, too. That has to help, plus the whole Mattison connection.
whats your feeling on him? Do you think he stays with Michigan?
Yes, I think he'll stick with Michigan. I think he's a pretty good player. I'm looking forward to seeing him develop.
I would perfer getting McClure.
If one of those spots went to a QB, but hard to see UM picking one up in this class with so little time left. Here's hoping that Denard and Devin can hold up throughout the year.
There are 65 players returning that are on scholarship (including all 5th year Srs and Kovacs and K. Grady who were originally walk-ons now on scholarship); this number does not include scholarship-worthy walk-ons (including, but not limited to, FB McColgan, DE Heinenger, LB Leach, LS Primarco, SS F. Simmons, etc.).
So, with all 5th years returning (including M. Williams clearing medical), no transfers, but no scholarships to walk-ons, we could give out 20 scholarships and have the full 85.
So, you can see where we could get away with a class of @21-22 without a high risk of pulling a Miles-eviction.
But, please, don't take this post as an invitation to wish for, or predict, a tranfer of any players or claim which 5th yr seniors "deserve" to return. Everyone on the roster is a Michigan Man that deserves to stay. Just explaining the numbers game as it exists right now.
The 20th and 21st spots would have to be for a QB or a DT. I would prefer we don't even stretch it to 22 (although I think we could without any 85-roster issues)
Otherwise, I'd prefer we use any vacant spots on walk-ons and bank them for 2012.
Let's just oversign 'em
but let's wait and see what happens with Posada, Fisher, and Countess before we make an evaluation of the class.
Regardless, David Brandon put Hoke in a horrible spot recruiting-wise and nobody should form any final judgements on Hoke's recruiting prowess until 2012 at the very earliest. If nothing else, the hiring of Mattison certainly gives us a leg up on the defensive side of the ball. If RR had been smart enough to hire a guy like Mattison instead of Robinson, he might still be coach. A head coach is only as good as his assistants, and you've got to commend Hoke for bringing in Mattison, whose resume isn't littered with bad spots like Robinson's is.
Logic says that you're correct--we shouldn't rush to hasty conclusions, yet I'm very encouraged by Hoke's intial efforts. I believe that you can learn something about a person's character when he is put in a tough situation. With Brady Hoke, all my impressions to date tell me that he gets stronger under pressure. I think you're right that Hoke's hiring Mattison was a great decision.
reaffirmed his commitment. No worries there
I agree with most of what you are saying Don, but am wondering how much longer we are going to have to hear about DB's failure to get a guy in here soon enough. That's a path that's been beaten to death IMO! Let's just wait and see what happens regardless of DB's handling of the hiring.
Someone in an earlier post talked about worrying about the players we "Do" have and not the players who are not at Michigan. In that same vein then, let's worry about the situation at hand and not the situation as we would have liked it to be. We all would have liked some more decisiveness, but that is not how it played out.
I will be upfront and say I was blown away by the Hoke hire. In fact I was quite dismayed if I am being honest. However, I was far more disappointed in the way DB handled everything than I ever was with anything BH did.
After a couple days I got passed my disappointment and realized as a fan, I had to get behind Hoke regardless and give him a fair shot at bring UM back. DB would be another story, but as for BH, I was am now in his corner 100%.
In this limited timeframe he has given me reason to get excited with how well he has responded to the position that he was thrust into by the way DB mishandled this whole thing. He has given me reason to be quite optimistic for the future with the way he has handled himself since getting the job and I am more than a little ashamed in relation to my feelings about his hire intially.
I agree in part with your assertion that we can't really fault him for this years recruiting class, but we can praise him for it if it turns out better than expected (which it seems it may). If he can salvage this class with the limited time he has had it bodes very well for the future.
Anyway, that is my opinion and can say I am happy that I have to admit that I was wrong about BH.
He has given me reason to be quite optimistic for the future with the way he has handled himself since getting the job and I am more than a little ashamed in relation to my feelings about his hire intially.
Firstly, you are not the only one to be not blown away by the hire and you should not be ashamed, many feel this way, it's human emotion. Hoke won me over when he thanked RR and his staff. I was even more pleased when he ripped people, even Michigan people for be divisive.
to 21 or 22 if the right talent is truly interested. I feel we may lose a few players by the end of the school year. Their choice, not the teams. Just a feeling.
wasn't there talk of taking 4-5 OL this class?
I know we have 2
Fisher and Bryant are must gets. All Eggs. 1 Basket.
The original assumption was anywhere from four to six, actually.
Right now I think we'll only get 4.
which are guaranteed to happen, we will likely have about 20 or so spots next year.
Next year is a banner year, by the way...so keeping spots for next year is a key.
I've been wondering if they should bank a scholarship or two for next year given how loaded Ohio and Michigan apparently are.
Unless you're a team with TONS of talent at about every position (which we are not) I don't ever agree with banking scholarships on purpose. Now, I don't agree with offering just anyone to fill a scholarship, but I don't agree with passing on guys you think would be quality additions because you think the next year might be better.
If we save spots until NSD for guys who go elsewhere, then those schollies will be banked, but that's a different story. But I think the goal should always be to fill all of your spots.
Ideally, Michigan should always be very selective, we just haven't had the luxury lately. If we're performing on the field and we have a small class to fill, we should be extremely selective, especially at LB and DB since this class has so many.
Of course, that 15 will almost certainly be more like 18, maybe even 20 depending on how things shake out. If it's not, we're lucky because it means everyone qualified, and no one bailed for any reason other than graduation.
Between what Sam Webb has said about Michigan's interest in him (they want him if he can qualify), his interest in Michigan (it's his apparent dream school), and his decision to make is test score announcement a surprise, I'm inclined to put Rawls down as a member of this class...As I believe someone else on the board pointed out a day or so ago, it seems unlikely that Rawls will say, "Guess what everyone? I didn't qualify!"
that would be an interesting press conference.... but your point is dead-on. Barring some sort of last-minute academic catastrophe, he's coming, and I think he's going to be a good one. I just hope his issues getting the test score don't presage horrible problems handling the academics once he gets here.
no, never, and NEVER. Please.
Hoke has done an amazing job, finishing this recruiting class, under very tough circumstances.
He has indeed. Do I repeat myself? Yep.
Even in the "worst case" mentioned above where we sign 15 players, including Rawls and another OP, we'd have more than 3 offensive players in the class. Hayes, Rawls, Miller, Posada (that's 4), plus an additional OP (we'll say Bryant) is 5. Plus, if Heitzman plays TE that'd be 6. Basically, they aren't recruiting WRs because we have so many (evidenced by what they did with Lucien and Flowers) so all the class would be missing from an offensive perspective, even in "worst case" is a QB. Nothing to worry about there.
Are we going to cut Brendan Gibbons's scholarship? I know it's a dick thing to do, but he never really panned out at all and now we have 2 scholarship kickers on the roster. Also, IMO he's not better than Seth.
No, we will not do that, for a number of reason.
1. What if Matt Wile isn't that good, or isn't that good right away? It's possible. We all thought Gibbons was a sure thing, remember? And what if Gibbons figures his shit out, or Wile gets hurt or violates team rules a la Hagerup for OSU? These things happen. After what happened this year, cutting a kicker would not be the right thing to do.
2. Yes it is a dick thing to do. If M gets a reputation for not benching, but cutting scholarship players just because we recruited a better player for their position, we will lose recruits. High school coaches pay attention to this stuff and they'll tell their players and parents.
3. It's one scholarship, and we saw what happened when you don't have a kicker. We might decide that we don't want to rely on a true frosh and a walk-on who isn't very good. Having three options is better than two.
Look, if Wile takes over and Gibbons never sees the field, he might not get his 5th year, which is common. If that happens, Gibbons only takes a spot for two more years, one of which is Wile's frosh year. Cutting Gibbons will do little good and a lot of bad.
100% agree. No scholarship should ever be yanked simply because a kid doesn't pan out athletically. As long as he's working hard like everybody else, isn't a problem in terms of attitude, and is keeping on course for his degree, he's a Wolverine. Permanently.
Right. We don't and shouldn't cut people. I wish Gibbons at least could punt and back Hagerup up.
I agree with what you are saying because of the rationale you are using. There could be very bad reprecussion if we started doing things of this nature to our scholarship athletes and we don't need anything else working against us at this point.
I do have a question, however. I am just looking at it from a students perspective. If a student receives an academic scholarship to a university and they fail to live up to their potential it isn't exactly uncommon for them to lose their scholarship (at least in Canada, perhaps it is different in the USA). Also, if a kid on an athletic scholarship doesn't perform academically he can lose his scholarship as well.
Why is it that if a kid doesn't pan out on the field (ie doesn't live up to his potential) that his scholarship can't be revoked without such negative reprecussions?
Again, this is just a genuine question in search of a response. I am not saying we should or shouldn't practice, just want to hear opinions why it is different?
Academically, just like you can control how hard you work on the practice field. But you can't control how athletic you are. If I'm not as smart as the next guy, if I study a lot harder, I can make it up. You can get in better shape, and watch more film, but there are limits. No matter how much I work at it, I'm not going to be playing in the NFL. If you have a guy who's doing everything you ask of him, but just isn't good enough, that's on you for taking him, not the kid. And it's about what's best for the kid, not the program, as long as he's holding up his end of the bargain.
Just to clarify, if we sign 20 this year, we have 15 for 2012, and if we don't give Watson and Williams a 5th year, we can take 22 this year, leaving us with 13 for 2012?
Did I understand that correctly?
Yeah, I think it depends on who they are if we sign more than 20. If we get 8 more guys, and those 8 are Bryant, Fisher, a 4 star TE, a good QB, Rawls, Willingham, Clark, and either one of the top DBs (McClure or Floyd) or a top DE/DT that we're looking at (Cooper?), I'd be OK with that.
It would lessen our needs for 2012, so we could be extra picky, almost ignore some position groups like LB and DB, and not need to go too crazy on OL and DL.
The problem with this is that the 3 kids in the state of michigan we desire most play lb,lb and db...
I disagree. From what I know, the three we desire most are Ross, O'Brien and Godin, or LB, NT, DT. If we get Willingham and Clark and they both play LB, that might be it for RJS, unfortunately. And the little CB from Cass Tech (Terry Richardson?) seems pretty highly touted, and we'll still take one CB in the next class at least, but it also sounds like Hoke and Co. like the bigger corners, which is not him.
Let's see what kind of interest we have across the country in about April and we'll know more. RJS might make the cut, but he also might not. If it's because we have better LBs interested and we only want to take two, I'm OK with that.
It's way too early to project what positions we'll need at LB next year. We don't know who we'll get in the class of 2011, and the coaches have yet to move around their guys (will Jake Ryan play ILB or OLB? Will Jordan Paskorz play OLB or DE? Etc.). You also never know if a guy buried on the bench (Isaiah Bell or Brandin Hawthorne, for example) might transfer or something.
I don't think McClure or Raven are coming and Rawls would be nice but not critical. I hope we see Barnett, Bryant, Fisher and Cooper if we have 21 spots. If not then I guess we drop Barnett. It's hard to turn down a TE that's 6'6" and 245lbs though.
Leon Hall and he was a great Corner back
Also out of the same high school i believe...
Looks pretty good. Ideally, in my dreams, it would be great if Hoke could snake-oil one -- just one -- kid away from one of the tip-top programs. We aren't at that level yet. If and when Hoke starts beating out Bama, OSU or Texas, we'll know we're on our way.
Mcclure has a relationship with Hall actually.
I think we take 20, maybe 21 in this class. We have some holes to fill and we want to get guys into the program. Its possible a guy like Leach won't get a 5th year out of the deal, but we'll have to see. I don't wish it on him, but sometimes its reality. I think we are better off landing a full class this year and going with 15-18 next year. Its a quality class and we won't need depth too badly. We should be able to get a really elite class even if small. We'll probably redshirt a bunch of guys this year, so they'll be frosh next year anyways. We want to get them in the program though. Get some vets in the mix who can set the standard.
As far as WR, the new offense makes for a lot of changes. A). We will use less WRs, which we all know, but B). We will use bigger WRs in the WCO. That could mean 2 guys go to WR that aren't there now and I'm talking about Ricardo Miller(rumored to TE of course) and Cam Gordon(look how many LBs we have signed). Cam would probably best used as a possession WR type. He could be a starter for his last 2 years here after all the vets leave next year. He can refine his game and get back into WR mode, learn the WCO etc. this year. Playing D should give him a nasty disposition that will be nice to see in a possession WR. Miller could be either, but even if he's a TE, he'll probably be on the field with another TE at the same time, so it will still negate the need for an extra WR often times. That would leave us with Jackson,Stokes,Williamson,Dileo,Robinson,Gallon(could be a good one, maybe Harvin lite type) plus Gordon and Miller. Add a guy or 2 next year and I have to think we'd be ok. I do think, if we have a scholly left at the end, we might take a guy like Lucien at the last minute no NSD
Though I'd never oversign or cut guys just to do it, in my fantasy world V.Smith,Dileo,Gibbons and Leach would be gone. V.Smith can probably go start for 2 years at a school like Appalachian or another FCS spread school. His career is over at UM for the most part, so its in his best interest. Open up a few scholles, dump a few RR offense guys, an extra K and a 5th year 2 star LB who has no value to us. Again, i'm not this cruel in real life, haha.
We need a back like Rawls...he can be the next great UM rb. I'm just hoping he can qualify
This year, in particular, we can be a little flexible re the numbers. Not in the SEC way, but because the cc will produce additional attrition. It's inevitable. Certain players will decide that they don't fit with the new coaches or schemes. Happens every year, to some degree (especially with RR). But the cc increases the odds significantly. So if the coaches covet an extra recruit or two, it shouldn't be problem.