So who do we want to replace Borges?
And then bring back Loyd, and Ron English.... New fresh faces needed..
Now why would you want him when Stan Parrish is available?
Just because he is a Michigan man? If he had no Michigan ties, he wouldn't even be on the list. Michigan needs to go after the best person out there, not the best person they can with Michigan ties. I know if will be harder to hire such a person, but throwing enough money at the person usually solves that issue.
Virginia Tech's preformance this year so far:
|VTEC Offense||Value (rank)|
|3D Conversion %||33.33% (#100)|
|4D Conversion %||60.00% (#32)|
|RZ Scoring %||64.00% (#120)|
|Rush Play %||51.67% (#73)|
|Rush Yards/Game||110.9 (#109)|
|Pass Play %||48.33% (#53)|
|Completion %||58.33% (#69)|
|Pass Yards/Game||246.9 (#53)|
|Int Thrown %||3.33% (#81)|
|QB Sacked %||5.66% (#67)|
BUT HE IS A MICHIGAN MAN!!!!!
He doesn't know what "Holler" means!
CUMONG LSA DONT YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOU TTHIS PLACE AND UNIFORMZ AND TRADITIONZ? AND SAYING THINGS LIKE "BO" AND "PHYSICAL" AND "THIS IS MICHIGAN?!?! "
Cumong, LSA. CUMONG.
Sucks at VA Tech
Loeffler may be the only option that is actually worse than Borges.
GREG MO'FUCKING DAVIS!!!!
I'm calling it, Borges is fired, Michigan hires Greg Fucking Davis, finishes the year as the first team in NCAA history to have a negative yardage total on offense.
Seriously, isn't once a week enough?!
Yeah dude seriously. If anything, this is the ONLY relevant thread associated with the Michigan football program, because until Hoke replaces Al - The Worst Coordinator in Michigan History (TM) - Borges, hundreds of thousands of fans will join Brian, myself and others in the land of "Don't give a shit any more."
Why on earth would you think this a good idea?
A sock puppet
What about this guy?
Borges is getting a little too much of the grief right now. it's football, the issues go deeper than just "argh bad playcalling."
It's execution. It's on Darrell Funk too. And Gardner might have to be benched at this rate.
Sort of agree. Funk has got to go first. I'm more undecided on Borges. His players suck at football. This is different from past years when I thought that Mike Debord was squandering away gobs of talent.
At least Debord developed talent he could then squander...
I've gone back and forth on Borges. In some of our poor performances I actually liked the playcalling (ND 2012, PSU this year until late), we just didn't execute. But what really gets me is that in year three, I don't know if I can think of a single offensive player outside of Gallon that's improved since Borges got here (Devin's just about regressed to where he started).
I have gone back and forth on Borges too. In the end, I think that he is a mediocre coordinator that won't squander great football players, but won't get more than they are worth either. I loved his game against ND, but he has had some mega turds too.
if Borges coached at Bama, he would be a hero, if he coached at a Mac school, he'd be fired.
I don't mind keeping the guy, because we are recruiting well, but that throws away next year and maybe the year after that.
It's obvious that Funk is garbage, though.
How is it though, that Borges did better calling a spread than he does manball? I just don't get it.
That's like saying if a four year old was armed with an AK 47, he could probably win a fight with Floyd Mayweather. And frankly, I couldn't disagree more. It's not like the Alabama players show up all shiny and perfect for the coaches to ride out like Ferraris. The coaches at Alabama, starting with Saban, actually DEVELOP those players to be as good as they are.
Borges is not only a dinosaur in his schemes and play calls, but he can't develop his players at all, and doesn't even have a QB coach...
Borges = The Worst Coordinator in Michigan History (TM) on the heels of the second worst in GERG, and third worst in Ron English.
You really don't feel that he's squandering the talent that we have? I agree that especially with O-line that might take more time to tell, but with how he used Denard, the seeming regression of our RB's, the unwillingness to spread it out for Gardener, all seem like squandering after 3 years of his coaching.
Is it that hard to spell our QBs last name right?
To be fair, we've had a lot of seniors come through and graduate, and replaced by freshmen and RS freshman. There' isn't the orderly Senior gets replaced by Junior development you see in mature, stable programs. With the exception of the OL, most of the 2012 and 2013 class are at or above where you would expect them to be at this stage in development. Chesson, Funchess, Norfleet, Butt all are contributing, you could probably throw in Johnson and Darboh too if they weren't injured. You have some guys that haven't made an impact yet, but that happens and it's still early. That said, with as much focus as we've given on OL recruiting the last few years, it's pretty glaring we haven't had more production out of those guys.
I was thinking about posting in the snowflake thread about how bad the O-line is. Then I realized - that's not a snowflake, it's a raindrop.
But - following two teams at once is useful for comparison purposes....and my 2-8 going on 2-10 Hoos have a wretched offensive line that looks better than Michigan's because the OC has a system that hides their weaknesses as best as possible. I blame Borges for not figuring out how to do the same and I blame Funk for how piss-poor they are in pass-protection.
Thank you so much for pointing this out! There's still a small subset (including Hoke) that believe talent and execution are the problems. Which, to an extent, they are. But good coaches figure out a way to minimize the impact of weak areas of the team (see Mattison, Greg). Bad coaches go "let's run power even though none of our linemen can block it".
If you have a QB that can glide like a damn horse, a mismatch on the level of Funchess, then maybe you know, run plays that cater to those strengths.
" His players suck at football"
I have to keep calling BS on this. His players don't suck at football, they suck at doing what he is asking them to do. His number one job is to take the talent he has, identify their strengths and put them in position to succeed. I think they have some serious (undeveloped) talent on the offensive side of the ball. He asks the wrong things of them.
Al seems like a nice guy but, he sucks at his job.
I'm concerned that Borges the QB coach may be undermining Borges the OC. Gardner has gone from being a turnover machine to being way too indecisive and holding on to the ball too long. Previous Borges QBs have gone through similar difficulties. Even some of his better QBs had pretty bad INT totals.
to be benched is crazy IMO. Yea, he's missing some plays out there. However, WTF is he supposed to do. He's getting killed out there, no time, his team can't run the ball. Do you think Shane Morris would step in and do any better? Hell no is the answer. And it is MUCH to do with play calling. I agree FUNK is awful. And don't forget Al Borgess is DG's QB coach. So the blame for DG can fall on Borges' dumass as well.
Yeah, I really wonder when people say that Gardner should be benched what they're expecting Morris to be able to do that Gardner hasn't been. I guess there might be play or two in which the defense doesn't realize he's a lefty.
I would like to see Morris just to see where he is at in his development.The season is over anyway,get the kid some reps.
It would make no sense taking snaps away from his development either at this point.
The people calling for Gardner to benched are out of their minds. Some people excuse the o-line troubles based on youth, but yet fail to realize that Gardner hasn't even started two full years at QB yet. He is still in the beginning stages of his career as a QB.
He has shown flashes of greatness throughout the season, he just needs to become more consistent. He has accounted for 20+ tds this year. Having an actual running game to help out would go a long way as well.
I just wonder who in their right mind would believe any QB would excel consistently given the current state of the offense. There is a real chance that a less mobile QB like Morris would end up getting seriously hurt, behind this awful o-line.
"WTF is he supposed to do"
- not duck at the 1st sight of a defender coming close to the pocket
- not hold on to the ball too long
- actually make reads faster
- fire to the quick slants and hot reads that Borges is desparately dialing up
- again....not hold on the ball for so long
then again, with no running game and no OL...how much can I blame him?
#1 problem with this team, this season, and everything else is the damned OL. Funk needs to go now.
Does Borges actually dial up hot routes? If so, then this makes two QBs in a row that couldn't check down to save their lives. Comes back to Borges again.
There were several occasions where the defense (State and Neb) were jumping the hot routes. They were basically playing coverage under the assumption no long routes would have time to develop, which was a pretty safe assumption. I agree with the poster above, everything comes back to the OL. We can't run to slow down the blitzs. We've dumbed down protection schemes making Fitz's job all but impossible. We have blocking TEs or extra linemen in to max protect, resulting in only 2 man routes into bracket coverage. Gardner is understandably a mess mentally and physically from all the contact he takes.
Still, DG locks onto receivers and hold the ball far too long. At times, he actually had decent pass protection Saturday. He would stare holes through his 1st read and be sacked by the time he thought of making his progression.
I don't say this to dog on DG. In my view, I don't expect much out of QB that has as few starts as he does. With a bit more experience and just a slight uptick in performance from the O-line, I think we'd all like the product/performance Borges/DG can put together. He has a great knack for the deep ball (which Borges loves) and can punish teams that overplay pass protection.
I'm not a huge fan or hater of Borges, but I think his real worth will only be evident after next year.
Is what can happen when you run two-man routes and max protect. Sometimes, it takes a while for two bracketed receivers to get open.
Also, I think the sense that they've essentially cowed Gardner by emphasizing turnovers over everything else -- as Brian said, I think Gardner the gunslingin' turnover machine is actually better than Gardner the tackling dummy (somewhere in between would be extra rad, of course).
How do you have hot routes on long developing play action plays with only 2 receivers running routes.
Was a hot route. There are certain rules installed in the system for when a hot route is to be run. That doesn't help the fact that Michigan can't pick up protections they should be able to pick up, but it's a fairly common trait for any team that has hot routes installed within their offense.
Do you think there are too many deep drops in the offensive play calling? Do deeper drops make it hard for Gardner to reset his feet to throw a quick hot route?
Most of the hot routes will happen immediately before you get too deep in the drop. Depending on how Borges runs his hot routes, they could be an immediate change (change 7-step to 3-step) or it could change the type of drop (quick-7 compared to full-7). On PA passes you just need to know where the guy is and know you're getting hit. It's a tough position to be in, especially when your team can't run block (so the D doesn't respect the run) and can't block (so the D is coming rather unmolested).
I would like some more quick drops. I would actually like a lot of the simple pass plays Michigan ran with DG last year. Not because I think they would be successful (I don't think DBs respect the deep pass enough for that, because they know pressure will get home or they'll have way more DBs than routes as Michigan tries to protect), but just because it changes the pass rush angle, the speed at which they have to do things, and gives another thing to defend.
Didn't Chris Spielman spend most of the last game damning the offense for not having hot routes?
He was calling for quick routes more than anything. I think there were some points where receivers didn't get into their hot routes though, because Nebraska did overload some blitzes on occassion I believe. Borges has always had hot routes on 7+ man blitzes, so I find it hard to believe he totally went away from it (and it may be one of the reasons Hoke said in the presser that it's not just the OL, but all 11 on the field contributing to the sacks).
Alright SC. I just have to know - and don't think I'm chastising you in any way because I'm just genuinely curious. What do you think of the coordinating and the line coaching now?
This team's offense has easily surpassed the ineptitude of RR's defenses (last in TFL's, -48 yards rushing, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum). We look absolutely awful. I feel horrible for the seniors on this team.
I'll leave it at that, as I don't want to retread the whole issue again with a long post.
Yes, because we all know that true frosh QB's always do those things better than red shirt junior QB's.
so alternatives would be to.....
- not duck at the 1st sight of a defender coming close to the pocket
>>16 sacks in the last two games, numerous scrambles keeping drives alive only through the use of his feet b/c nothing else is there...he kind of has to scramble and/or roll out or he gets sacked...defensive players are into the backfield the moment the ball is snapped....if anything he waits too long and there are multiple defendars around him collapsing the pocket and he has nowhere to go....
- not hold on to the ball too long
>>and throw the quick screen pass instead....oh wait....right....we don't do that. He has no choice, no one is open to throw to....the routes are taking upwards of 7 seconds to develop....please note that there is a correlation between his reduced interception rate and his reluctance to fling the ball into a crowd which he was doing more of earlier in the year. The OC should be adjusting to the fact that DG is going to have 3-4 seconds to throw the ball and employing a shorter passing game.
- actually make reads faster
>>you can't make reads faster
- fire to the quick slants and hot reads that Borges is desparately dialing up
>>Borges is dialing these up at an alarmingly low frequency considering the need to do so....we have only a very minimal set of hot reads that I have seen and not nearly enough to keep any defense honest...based on player ability (read no blocking') this should be a staple of the offense...not an afterthought
- again....not hold on the ball for so long
>>again....run shorter routes, screens, quick outs
Borges is the OC. You can pick out the play that's being run by looking at the formation and players on the field. If you've been around as long as Borges and you can't figure out that you need to run multiple plays out of the same set, then it's time to go. The idea that this isn't on the OC is ridiculous. We do the opposite of Boise State. They run the same plays out of several different formations. We just run a bunch of formations.
Why bench Gardner?? He looks alright when he has half a second to breath in the pocket.
Matt Limegrover. 2 walk-on OL starting for him at Minnesota, and no wide receivers of note. Heck, they're even redshirting Berkley Edwards.
Henri the otter of ennui
I'd be excited for Loeffler. Think about Navarre in 2001, and then in 2003. Now think about Shane Morris under his guidance.
It's like ramming my head into a wall. Hated him as the QB
That may be a good reason to hire him as QB coach, but his career shows that he'd be a disaster as OC. It's really ok to hire people from outside the Michigan family tree. I swear it is.
The program declined under the 'hire within' policy and in this day and age it just isn't feasible to continue to limit a staff that way...we need talented coaches, period. Trying to 'get the band back together' will only drag us down further (or make us 'big in Japan', sorry couldn't resist a Spinal Tap reference).
Scott Loeffler has done very little to indicate he would be a good OC for Michigan, quite the opposite.
While we are at it, we should also not be hiring ex-players to fill coaching vacancies just because they were good players. Coaching is very different from playing and involves player development, teaching and motivation more than anything else, which are all learned by having experience as a coach over many years, with many players in differtent schemes. For example, hiring Mike Hart as coach of the running backs is a bad idea, quite simply because he would possess zero experience. Being the running back coach at a program like Michigan is a position that should go to someone that has a proven track record of success, not a rookie.
Ditka with Mini Ditka as QBs coach
I would even search through the Dll ranks and a find a guy that's innovative and creative. Gus Malzahn used to be a high school coach not too long ago.
You forget that we will still have Hoke as our head coach. All of those options run some form of spead attack.
If anyone is going to replace Borges he is going to have to be a MANBALL coach.
I don't care where he comes from, what college he played for, I don't care if he spent ten years in Columbus picking up Jim Tressel's dry cleaning. At the end of the year the best candidate from college or pro football should be given the job.
how about the OC for Slippery Rock ? They always score 50+ points!
Loeffler at OC. Stenavich OL, Mike Hart at RB.
And what do you mean "end of season"? I say now, so the palyers have 3 games plus all the bowl practices, even if we are playing in a shit bowl.
I don't think loeffler is he guy
I agree it would be best to see Funk and Borges go after the Ohio game. That would be the logical thing to do to get some extra practices.....but these days its hard to tell whats logical and whats not.
Why Loeffler, besides his Michigan connection? I don't know the details about what he's dealing w/ at Va Tech, but statistically, that offense isn't very good. I know he was dealt a shitty hand at Auburn, but he didn't do much there. His 2011 Temple offense finished 63rd in the country.
experience with qb's mostly.
You mean like Logan Thomas? Watch his games this year, then go back and watch the Sugar Bowl from 2011. That kid has regressed worse than Gardner this year.
So just bringing in more Michigan Men? I like Hart as much as the next guy, but I'm not willing to make him a coach here just because he played football for us a while back. If he is the best available, hire him right way, but I doubt he is the best available option.
Stop making sense.
Mike Bobo from Georgia
Think we can spirit Greg Davis away from Iowa?
Stan Parrish is the interim HC at EMU and he was Hoke's OC at Ball State. If Borges gets fired...
All I am saying is -- brace yourselves, folks.
anyone else > parrish > borges.
so it least it'd be an improvement.
I don't remember Parish being that bad, and don't know what year he was let go...
I'd take parish, in an admittedly ignorant current state.
He was okay, I guess. He was kind of in his prime in the late '90s, but he has just floated around the MAC since then. I loved his work with Michigan's QBs, but he is also 67.
Hecklinksi manipulating Crisler's corpse, a la Weekend at Bernies.
Bob Cole, NIU OC or Philip Montgomery, Baylor.
From Hockey Night in Canada? That would be great, eh!
It seems we have plenty of qualified people on this board who should FEDEX their resume.
Well I could have gotten more rushing yards in the last two games by punting on 1st down everytime...
David Yost from Mizzou.
He resigned from Mizzou at the end of last season because his offense performed poorly.
He ended up at Wazzou with Mike Leach as an inside receivers coach.
So, you're saying he's available.
Seems that the Baylor and Mizzou coaches have done amazing things with backups stepping in for injured players.
That said, there are other excellent suggestions here, such as the coaches from Stanford, and Slippery Rock.
If none are available or we are worried they want head coaching jobs, my friend coaches his kid's soccer team, so maybe he could do it.
who is good at the footballs.
And pay him accordingly.
Succeeding running the offense, that, for better or for worse (probably the latter) Hoke will insist on and doing it with consistently less talent than we have. Make him the highest paid assistant in the history of the world if we have to. Just have Stephen Ross start making $100 million checks to him directly.
Mario Cristobal. The Bama offensive line has shown vast improvement over the course of the season, plus he's an A-level recruiter.
Kill two birds with one stone.....then you can bring a QB coach as well. Thats why I created this thread for answers like this.
Cristobal has never been an OC before.
F-ck Borges. Everyone click on the thread below this one and wish our fellow member good luck and well wishes. NOW!
Does the hyphen really mask the profanity that well? Why not just type the word or pick a different word?
Wouldn't the obvious choice be Bloombren from Stanford b/c of manball? He also happens to coach their interior line.
Aside from him, anyone from the TAMU offensive staff. If it worked against Bama and the SEC, I don't buy that it won't work in the Big Ten. Obviously never going to happen though.
The "won't work in the Big Ten" argument will always be 100% wrong, no matter what the topic is. Spread offenses, power running, even 3-3-5 defenses can all work anywhere, provided you have the coaching and personnel. Broadly, it's not so much what you're doing, as much as making sure you do it well.
Now, finding someone that the head coach actually wants and would leave their current job for Michigan is another story.
borges even went from ucla to cal for a $50k raise. so that's within the conference...and a state rival.
A&M staff might be living dangerously. Kingsbury, Sumlin's OC of a few years recently left and the offense is still largely Sumlin's baby. Don't know how well anyone else would do out in the wild on their own.
why would he play russian roulette with his career coming to Michigan?
Stanford is a pretty tasty gig and Michigan is really not all that attractive a prospect right now.
There's no reason to buy the "it won't work in the B1G". Ask Drew Brees.
Or you know. Urban Meyer
I think Borges should get another year. Funk should be fired this year for sure. If the offense is still terrible next year Borges should go, if they're still bad after that Hoke should be gone.
Edit -- Yeah actually after thinking about it some more, Borges should be gone, hopefully as soon after the OSU game as possible, to give us the most time to search for a good replacement.
Nice try, Al.
Bloomgren from Stanford
To the people suggesting Scot Loeffler, look at what he's done since he left Michigan in 2007. His offense this year is worse than Borges'. For real.
Who's realistic? Who has Michigan ties? Throwing out random names of people that run successful offenses with no reason to leave for here is pointless.
How about someone who is ambitious and competent rather than someone with Michigan ties. Bo is dead, Moeller is gone, Lloyd is gone. Hire on merit.
oh, and offer serious ca$h money
Having Michigan ties is not the only criteria for being realistic. Coordinators will often leave their current job if the price is right. If we pay accordingly, almost anyone is obtainable.
I didn't mean they had to have Michigan ties, but it wouldn't necessarily hurt and is not very uncommon to hire people with ties to the program.
Still, my question remains: who is realistic? Obviously Chip Kelly is not coming (I only say him because people are, admittedly as a joke, throwing his name out there.
I haven't seen anyone that we necessarily couldn't get to come here. Assuming we fire Borges this season, the next guy walks into a good situation. He'll get a bit of grace period which allows for any hangover from the young O-Line and then he gets to coach all the great recruits coming into their prime. That will be enticing. The only thing left would to make it financially worth his while.
Sure, some guys in comfortable situations aren't going to leave no matter what. But I don't think we're being unreasonable to throw around good coordinators, even at other big time football schools.
He would be looking at a team whose OL absolutely torpedoed his predecessor. That OL loses a top-ten NFL left tackle and a senior multi-year starter at RT (also at least borderline NFL talent). He is staring at a bunch of four star prospects with practically no experience. His QB is either shell-shocked or a turnover machine. Not to mention his HC will be on a hot seat and be under enormous pressure to turn things around, and an OC candidate is looking at a situation which will is most likely to get him fired after a year unless he's a miracle worker. The only way someone steps in there and takes the bullet is if they owe Hoke a favor, or are willing to gamble on the turnaround for a big career boost - in other words, an unknown coordinator looking to skip rungs on the career ladder.
I wonder if GERG would give us the number of that beaver...
Chip Kelly would walk across the country for the position of OC under the great Brady Hoke.
Chip Kelly pre-Oregon, who was at New Hampshire I believe, would definitely have walked to Michigan for the job. Not sure how Belotti found that guy, but I be like dang...
Im gonna get grief for this but i want lane kiffin. I dont care about his personality as long as he does the job right. He was an offensive genius at USC we all remember the 2007 Rose Bowl. Michigan should go after him but honestly i doubt Borges gets fired.
I really want to believe that this is one of the best trolls ever conceived. And that the 'I'm gonna get killed for this' is just one more layer of genius on top of an impossibly light and fluffy troll cake.
But if not, holy fucking pants. Everything Kiffin has touched since USC has turned to shit. Everything. His last employer hated him so much they all but got a restraining order and had security throw him out onto the sidewalk.
This board is on FIYYAH.
Noel Mazzone. This past weekend against Arizona (granted a Rich Rod defense) a LB playing both ways at RB rushed for over 100 yards! At one point this season they had 3 first time starters on the offensive line (sound familiar). They also have a mobile QB (sound familiar).
Why would he leave UCLA for Michigan when they would certainly match an offer for more $$.
Charlie Weis. Schematic advantage for the win!
The best choice is one that has input from the coaching fraternity. If Hoke wants a particular style he should seek input (Stanford/Harbaugh for a manball type for example) from others (talk to the Pats about a modern hybrid pro-style if that is where he wants to go). He cannot possibly know the options out there. And he needs to replace the Mattison/Hoke DL coaching with a real coach (we were better/more cohesive with Montgomery) not those two part time.
Brandon (he is a coach right?)
That homeless guy with the great voice
Really any homeless guy
Greg Mattison (double duty)
Any former player or commit or target
A NCAA Football 2014 simulation
A fan generated twitter live poll
John Williams (YTJW)
Would be the shit.
I was listed above a brick!
Whomever is in charge of the offense at Northern Illinois. They can develop QBs and they go forward. A lot.
H.R. Pufnstuf or Teddy Ruxpin. Two of the most creative minds in football.
Here's another vote for Bloomgren.
I don't understand the obsession with having all these "Michigan Men" come back to coach. Hire the best candidate possible, Michigan Man or not, this stuff needs to stop unless you all want status quo.
We tried that in 2007. Didn't work out so well.
So you end a sound, reasonable strategy because of one failure to revert to something that's almost completely irrational?
It's stupid then, and would be stupid now.
But, I don't think OC matters as much to have Michigan ties
I don't care what the position is -- the best person should be hired.
I think the position coaches develop players, so the one position that the OC currently coaches is QB, otherwise he has to depend on the position coaches, right?
If you're for firing Borges - and I'm on the fence - you have to consider the fact that he has to be replaced. Hoke isn't going to hire a spread guy. It strikes me as really unlikely that Stanford's OC leaves for Michigan (Stanford is a better program right now). Cam Cameron and Loeffler are mediocre at best, and maybe neither would even want to come back. What good pro-style OCs are out there who Michigan could land? I don't know, but the list probably isn't long.
Also, Shaw is probably going to leave Palo Alto for the NFL fairly soon.
Huh?! I've read and heard nothing to suggest Shaw would leave Palo Alto. He's from California and attended and played football at Stanford. He's stated multiple times that coaching Stanford is his dream job. He's the Pac 12's equivalent of Northwestern's coach, Pat Fitzgerald.
We almost certainly can afford to pay the guy more than Stanford can.
In the SI piece on Stanford and Oregon, they wrote about Stanford's big-time donor. He's like a mini-Phil Knight. Stanford has money, big-time money. Now how much of that is directed towards athletics is anyone's guess, but I'm willing to bet that they are enjoying their newfound success on the gridiron and won't be so easily outbid.
Rich Rod. He has Michigan tie
Don't even joke about that.
He has the bonus of coming with a pre-made "Fire Bobby Williams" website, thus saving us the effort of having to make one ourselves.
Just couldn't resist.
Instead of replying to the question posed in the title of this thread, I'm going to share this video of Jerry Kill dancing with his team after the Gophers beat Penn State this weekend.
Apologies for not starting a new thread, I don't have enough points.
Danny Langsdorf? He is young, runs pro style, has developed quarterbacks and his offenses improve over the course of a season. And Hoke still has connections in Corvallis.
Not sure who it is but the Denver Broncos O Line coach would be a good start
Broncos O Line coach is Dave Magazu
The Giant Noodle.
Got to agree with GoBlue89 on this. After watching UCLA this past wknd and seeing a handful of there other games from this yr and last yr I think he would be good/realistic
I steal a great deal of my hs play book from him. Have also heard him speak a handful of times. Problem is he does not fit Hoke's scheme. Hoke wants to be a smash mouth team regardless of who the OC is. Really doubt he would be considered.
Not saying we should get Loeffler, but their situation depth-wise is as bad as it is here at some key positions on offense. They've had a lot of injuries at RB, graduated some WR's and Logan Thomas has regressed this year, making a lot of careless mistakes, worse than what Gardner's been doing.
I do think there are better candidates than him. I think he'd be like a DeBord or a more innovative version of Borges, with better QB coaching, too. And that may be just fine for many people.
Isn't it a red flag if Thomas has regressed when his OC is a former QB Coach? That doesn't help Loefler's case
Hue Jackson (current RB coach for Bengals, has experience as NFL HC, college and NFL OC, RB Coach, WR Coach, QB Coach. Blends zone and gap blocking in smash mouth offense that emphasizes play action and vertical passing attack).
Jeff Tedford: former HC at Cal, OC at Fresno State. He coached three skill position players who are today the cream of the crop at their positions in the NFL (Aaron Rodgers, Marshawn Lynch, Desean Jackson) among a bevy of other future pros. Pro-style offense and a smart playcaller. His Cal teams started to perform poorly when he delegated playcalling duties. Is a brilliant and respected offesive mind.
Randy Sanders: Current QB Coach at Florida State has to be looked at if only for his work with Jameis Winston. Worked as offensive coordinator and QB coach at Tennessee and Kentucky (where he helped turn Andre Woodson into a Heisman candidate) and runs a pro-style scheme.
Mark Mangino: current assistant coach at Youngstown State. Coached strong offense at Kansas and made Todd Reesing into a household name at one point.
G.A. Mangus: Spurrier protege is currently the QB Coach at South Carolina. Connor Shaw has developed very well under Mangus' tutelage. Also ranked as one of the top recruiters in the country by Rivals, ESPN, and 247 sports.
Dave Schramm: OC at Fresno State. Has rejuvenated the offense, but he runs a spread.
Mario Cristobal: OL Coach at Alabama has done a very good job this year despite sustaining heavy losses from last year. Has head coaching experience (was fired after mixed results at Florida International, a decision that was heavily criticzed).
These are just a few from basic research. Tedford and Jackson would be ideal, but neither may want to come back as an OC. Randy Sanders or Mangus seem like the top reasonable candidates.
What about Matt Limegrover from Northern Illinois?
Edit: Not intended as a reply to your comment. Sorry about that.
All of those candidates look pretty good.
Which means that none of them will get a phone call.
Except for Mark Mangino. I just could deal with someone larger in girth than Big Al.
I don't care as long as Dave Brandon opens up the check book and already has researched a list of excellent, non-Michigan coaching tree candidates. Brandon has a chance to really show that he's a real leader and improve the quality of the Michigan brand in one fell swoop.
Come on. Brandon would rather spend the money on skywriters, adding more slugs to the marketing staff, and spending more on email offers selling tickets for Michigan's non-revenue sports.
I'm sure he thinks that a mascot would help the team's offense, too.
The best part of our next two opponents is they both get two weeks to prepare for us, this should be fun.
Fred Jackson...if only for the press conferences.
He needs to go too.
What about Major Applewhite? He will never leave Texas on his own but if Mack Brown is pushed out and the staff is not retained, I think he would be a good choice.
Juan Castillo. OL Coach under Andy Reid would have the backing of his former pupil, Jon Runyan, at the very least. He's struggled recently (famously as the defensive coordinator of the ill-fated "Dream Team", but also this season as running game coordinator for the Ravens. Ask frustrated fantasy owners how badly Ray Rice's production has fallen off a cliff). And the guy is as smash mouth as it gets.
you want to keep borges (top pic)?
NDSU OC Brent Vigen
Seriously, isn't once a week enough?!
No, it's not. This offense is terrrible.
but its never too early for a revised depth chart
Granted the O line is crap but Borges could try things to take some of the pressure of the O line. Different alignments, draws, quick slants, etc. could be done. There is no creativity. See ya Al.
That would be HILARIOUS! But provocative.
But I can see that MSU's offense isn't that great and the easiest play for them, especially converting on3rd down is a simple drag route, which is quick and opens up multiple spaces on the field. Why can't we have Gallon run a damn drag? Why do we run play action on almost every pass play? You guys say Garnder needs to get rid of the ball faster, but have you guys looked at our route trees? They are route trees, they are just straight shoots. All of our routes are deep and have a long time to develop. Why don't we roll Gardner out on almost every pass play? This creates time. Why don't we run more WR screens especially with Funchess splitting out wide now, a big body who can run or a big body to block. There are a lot of things that this offense can do that we refuse to do. Earlier in the year remember how many quick throws we had over the middle? Those are long gone. Sure i know GArdner made some bad reads, but it made the offense better.
Anyone who is competent enough to know what he has to work with and how to best utilize it. And someone who refuses to be predictable. I don't care who we hire: as long as they have a great track record, can develop QBs, and can recruit. Whether or not he's a Michigan alum or a former player under Bo don't mean squat to me.
Open up the checkbook, DB. You want a winning team in this day and age, you have to pay top dollar for it.
Have the first female offensive coordinator in NCAA history. I nominate Kate Upton. Well at least the press conferences would be packed!
Excellent move for the Michigan brand.
Scot (with ONE t) Loeffler, Cam Cameron, Mike Bloomgren
Anybody and everybody from Stanford. Even David Shaw. Replace Hoke with him
We will likely begin next year with all 3
Speaking of guys with a Michigan connection, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Terry Malone. I really liked him as an OC and he was the one guy that Carr fired that I really thought got the shaft. His passing game spread the ball around better than anyone during the Carr era. His 2003 offense was fantastic, both in terms of player talent and play calling. His '02 and '04 offenses were good, albeit unspectacular. His '05 offense was mediocre, but they had some legitimate excuses to be. He has been the Saints TE coach since then. I would welcome him back.
This is a joke, right? Please tell me my sarcasm meter is off.
Our 2003 offense dominated, and they did it with an offensive line that wasn't loaded with NFL prospects and a QB who was a borderline NFL prospect. They had Chris Perry, but we have seen time and time again that a great running back can't do crap without a good offensive line and play calling that keeps defenders off of the line of scrimmage. They also had Braylon, but people forget that Braylon was in Carr's doghouse at the beginning of the year and he wasn't much of a factor until the halfway point. They spread the ball around wonderfully and they were unpredictable in every game until they were up by 28 points. They gained 447 yards per game and scored 460 points against a pretty tough schedule that included some really good defenses. They shredded the absolute living hell out of Ohio State that year, and OSU easily had one of the country's top 5 defenses. On par with what MSU has had the past couple of years.
Without looking up all of the numbers, I'm pretty sure that is the most productive offense that we have had, points-wise, since at least the Gary Moeller era, and the second most productive offense that we have had in terms of yardage. His next two offenses were significantly less productive, but they were still very respectable when you take into account the mitigating factors (such as the fact that Chad Henne was a true freshman in 2004, and in 2005 we had Hart and Long injured for most of the year. Breaston was fighting some injuries those years too).
Anyhow, not my first choice, but if it's got to be a "Michigan man", and the other choices are Stan Parrish, Scott Loeffler, and Mike Debord, well...
Great question. My honest answer is "someone I've never heard of." No more retreads. No more guys who have been fired multiple times. And for the love of god nobody whose primary credential is that they've coached in Ann Arbor before. Maybe it could be a position coach (recruiting ties in the south would be a dandy bonus).
I could even get excited about an innovative coach from the high school level. Remember when people thought Malzahn was hired primarily as a recruiting ruse? That worked pretty well. There are tons of great candidates out there, but many of the decision makers seem so risk averse that they'd rather hire somebody else's failure than give a shot to an unknown.
If I were to pick a name I've actually heard of, how about Brian Johnson, the QB coach/OC at Utah? He's a super young guy (I've got to imagine this aids in recruiting, as well as not being completely stuck in one's ways) and played in an offense ideally suited for Gardner. I'm also guessing Utah is right around as high a level of program as one can realistically expect to poach a guy from for a lateral promotion.
Gus Malzhan if he was available. Done wonderful things for Auburn in one year!
I know Mike Bloomgren is a popular suggestion for OC, but he didn't build Stanford's offense, only its offensive line. This is his first year as Stanford's OC (or the 'Andrew Luck Director of Offense', which is Stanford's formal title for the OC position), and he hasn't had to get all that creative with his playcalling because of Stanford's brick wall of an O-line (case in point: Stanford ran Tyler Gaffney 47 times against Oregon). I would want someone who has a track record of building an offense that plays to the strengths of its personnel (since that's been Borges' biggest problem).
Look toward the north of Illinois.
His wife's a babe
I'd start looking at an OC that has a good offense on a team that its head coach is not an offensive guru. I think you'd get a better list of candidates from a guy that is more standalone on his side of the ball. This is why I would shy away from TAMU, Houston, Arizona, Washington, Baylor, OSU, Okie St, Stanford etc etc etc.
Stanford might be the only team on that list that I'd be willing to take a look at because he was an O Line coach prior to this year and has NFL experience.
If I had a wish list it would be this (in no particular order; yes I know some of these candidates go against what I said above):
- Mike Bloomgren (Stanford OC)
- Mario Cristobal (Bama OL Coach)- scares me a little because he hasn't been an OC
- Danny Langsdorf (Oregon St OC and QB Coach) - Yes I know Riley was an OC at USC
- Chad Morris (Clemson OC) - Dabo is an offensive guy and hes had Tajh Boyd during his tenure, so this could be smoke and mirrors.
- Josh Henson (Missouri OC and CO OLine coach)
My "meh" list:
- Robert Anae (BYU OC)
- Bill Musgrave (Minnesota OC)
- Jeff Jagodzinski (Georgia Southern OC) - he has a very odd coaching history which could be concerning. I don't know all the details.
I realize many of these candidates have flaws and some are far fetched, but I figured what the hell. Looking forward to any comments.
If Hoke does let Borges go (which is a big if), what will probably end up happening is that he'll elevate Hecklinski to OC and hire a new WRs coach. I might be fine with that, since Heck has OC experience and every job he's had has been a step up from his previous gig (with the exception of his move from Arizona to Ball State, but that can be explained by the fact that Arizona fired Mackovic for being a complete douchebag whom no one wanted to play for). Heck seems to be one of Hoke's few competent offensive assistants. He also doesn't have much of a history with Borges and wouldn't be married to Borges' offensive philosophy.
since my only true season as an OC was at the 7th grade level, and while we did well I think it had as much to do with the talent on hand as my brilliant playcalling, but fine, if offered the job I'll take it.
It may interest you to know that we threw some bubble screen type substances, and plays came in sets with constraints that looked just like them pre-snap (and some even post-snap).
So, yeah, I'll do it.
Really? If I was DG and I had Uncle Fester attempting to "coach" me on mechanics and what not.....would be comical. I also hear UF can't get along with the other coaches....divided house...?
OC/OL coach at Mercer (FCS)
Bears have 2nd best rush attack in fcs plus he's a Slippery Rock grad