Think Jon Gruden has any interest?
So where does Hockey go from here?
Stoops hasn't denied having interest. Very telling...
I don't think Red during the 20 years he was tutoring Mel was the issue. And you'll note the utter cratering corresponded with Mel's departure. That said, while Tech is a little better than they used to be, it doesn't seem like he's setting the world on fire there.
I do think it's apparent that it's about time for Red to retire. He can't get these kids to actually give a shit about Michigan (except Compher so far) anymore and they've been an utterly stupid hockey team for a couple years now.
I immediately thought this after the game.
Red said it himself.
He will step aside when it becomes apparent to him that he's getting in the way (paraphrasing).
Which seems to be now. But you can't ever be sure. I don't know what the deal is. I don't what the problem is. I don't where we will go from here.
Let me say this: I am in no way, shape or form saying Red should be fired or forced out. The guy is a legend and deserves his name on the next hockey building when it comes in about 20/25 years.
And honestly, I don't which hurts me more. Football being in this "Building It Up To Burn It Back Down" cycle or hockey having the troubles they are having.
Michigan Hockey means so much to me and it was always there for me to make me positive and happy and cheerful when football and basketball did not in the past.
Honestly, I would take the 2011 NCAA Championship over the ensuing football season of 2011. That is how much I love this program. There is just something about college hockey that football can't touch. Don't know what it is, but it's there. For you lucky bastards who got to experience the 1990s, once again, I envy you.
It's on the internet. Now it must be true.
Annnnnnnd there it goes. Michigan is now the last team in the tournament in the PWR.
I'll just be happy if they make the tournament. How sad is that?
What about that rumor that Red's contract and Mike Babcock's contract both end in two years. Perhaps that's what everyone's waiting for.
If that's not the case, who DO you take In if Red walks away at the end of the year?
Peter freakin' Laviolette, baby
What does Babcock know about recruiting? What does he know about college hockey?
- Danton Cole?
- Jeff Blashill?
I'm going to punch someone if they suggest that a "Michigan Man has to coach a Michigan team".
Luckily (hopefully?) hockey doesn't have psychotic past players who don't accept an outsider due to an accent or "him not knowing about XYZ tradition" and etc.
"Hi this is Mike Babcock" is a pretty decent recruiting pitch all on its own, and I don't think he needs any lessons in x's and o's.
Someone said on here awhile back that hiring Babcock would be like the reverse Ned Harkness.
That keeps me up at night scared.
"oh and by the way Johnny Q Recruit, this is my Stanley Cup Ring, here's my scrapbook from coaching the Canadian Olympic team into two Gold Medal games and here's where I won the World Championship. OH and by the way did you know I was the first and only member of the IIHF coaching Triple Gold Club? That means I'm the only coach EVER to coach teams that won the Olympics, World Cup and Stanley Cup........but you know what would be DOPE....going for the Grand Slam! How about adding an NCAA Championship and I'd like you to be a part of that. What do you say to that EH?"
I think I'd be sending my son with that guy.
but what's your high score in Flappy Bird dude?"
He won a national championship in Canada coaching at the University of Lethbridge. No idea how much recruiting they do.
And that title was, what, 25 years ago, in a rinky-dink Canadian college hockey environment that was even more backwater than American college hockey was at the same time? Both then and now, top-flight Canadian college-aged guys either play in Juniors or the United States. They're not playing in the Canadian leagues. It's not even comparable, or even relevant when it comes to recruiting experience.
Really, this Babcock-to-Michigan meme is nothing more than a nice little diversion from the reality that Mel Pearson was sent on a head coaching vacation to Houghton until Red hung 'em up. Babcock showing up at Yost is nothing more than the fact that the guy has a daughter at Michigan, likes to watch hockey, likes Red, and lives literally 15-20 minutes down the road from Yost. Michigan can't match Wings money, nor should they. Nor do I think this is a guy who would take a demotion to make college hockey money, recruit, and acclimate himself to an entirely different hockey universe at this stage in his career. This isn't the same as Red leaving for Michigan in the 80s.
I just like to pick on Wolv Dev. Considering he's the king of useless knowledge, I figured it was appropriate to let him know that Babcock coached at some college I didn't realize existed until about 30 minutes ago.
Maybe he was a key cog to the monster that was Michigan Hockey in the 90's but he's done nothing in Houghton to make him a credible candidate other than "was at Michigan". Isn't that what we determined has basically submarined the football program?
When Red retires, we need to pull hockey out of that circle of incest before they follow the path of the football program.
Who are your candidates?
Danton Cole is a local guy at the US NTDP (who beat Michigan in December. Again. Because Michigan basically threw the game putting Luke Dwyer in). He took Alabama-Huntsville to the NCAA Tournament (!).
He was a candidate or was thought of as one for the state job but he didn't take it despite the fact that he played there. So I don't think the school ties thing would be an issue.
Jeff Blashill is another one. He turned WMU around in ONE season from a laughing stock in the conference.
I know little of the ins and outs of hockey coaching and am much more of a fan. There seems to be a good bit less variability in college hockey vs football and basketball as far as coaching goes. Guys like Shaka Smart and Brad Stevens or Chip Kelly and Guz Malzahn seem to have huge effects on programs just by their coaching alone; in hockey, you don't see much variability where a coach can take a program from nothing and make them elite. So it's hard for me (as a fairly casual observer) to see if there is a 'hot' name that I think we should pursue.
However, Gadowsky sure seems to be doing a hell of a job at Penn State so far....(sigh)
What's he working with at Tech? A program that hasn't won a conference championship in over three decades, hasn't won a national title in almost four decades, located in the middle of freaking nowhere, that until this year was buried in a power conference where you're essentially already playing for fifth place when the season starts...
By all accounts he's a hell of a coach, who spent a long time biding his time as the heir apparent to Master Yoda until he couldn't wait any longer to build up the resume. We can cut it with the whole "Michigan Man" meme, this is a much different situation.
Didn't you or someone else say awhile ago that Brandon doesn't make hires unless said person has had head coaching experience?
Yep, and that's exactly when Mel migrated north.
Really, the whole Babcock thing is nothing more than rumormongering based on a lot of half-baked speculation. Mel is the guy, and has been the guy for going on fifteen years.
If you're him, what compelling reason is there for bringing him back as HC? He's made Tech better but not to the degree where he's really catching everyone's eye. You're right that he's automatically the #1 candidate, but Brandon has shown that he isn't too afraid to go against the grain
Because he meets DB's criteria, he's Red's guy, and you've got an entire choir of alumni who played for Mel (a lot of whom are now making millions in the NHL), who are still a big part of the atmosphere and fabric of the program at Yost ,who will openly back Mel. Michigan Hockey isn't Michigan Football. There's a pretty unified scene around that program that Red has cultivated during his tenure, and Mel was a huge part of making that happen. It's a positive.
Shaking things up for the sake of shaking things up, because people are skittish about the "Michigan Man" hangup from football, risks imploding what has made Michigan Hockey a pretty well-insulated phenomenon from the sheer shitshow the other revenue programs became at the same time.
The worst nightmare is Red's retirement presser not being a combined "here's the new guy" event. If Dave Brandon goes up there and utters the phrase "national search," go ahead and turn out the lights. It's over.
I said recently that I'm not sure you and I agree on pretty much anything but this post, especially the final paragraph, is gold. +1.
Babcock is the best hockey coach in the world right now (even though he has criminally never won a Jack Adams). He's 50 and been with the Wings nearly 10 years. They seem to be going down rather than up right now, and it's plausible that in a couple years they might "want to go in a different direction." If Babcock decides he has nothing left to prove in the NHL (a Stanley Cup, two other trips to the finals, plus whatever he does between now and then), maybe he'll want to go to the relatively low-key college job, where you have 30 games a year instead of 82 plus playoffs.
I don't think the pro to college jump is as big a deal as people are making it. Hockey is hockey, the only new issue is recruiting, and keeping guys from going to the OHL. I think he can handle it.
I know the whole Babcock-to-Michigan thing is kind of a pipe dream, but there is enough smoke around it that I want to believe. If it happens it would be awesome, but I'm not really counting on it.
You can see from Michigan football what happens when you try to change too fast. You can see from MSU hockey what happens when you don't change fast enough.
I'm of the opinion that Red should probably be retiring after this year or the next - whichever he wants. Bring someone similar but new, spend some cash and get someone great.
Hire the Ferris State guy.
with the realignment. Ferris is going to inevitably fall by the wayside. He needs to get a better gig!
Bob Daniels. Great guy, but age might be a factor.
Bob Daniels has been at Ferris since 1989. Even if he did leave, he's a Michigan State guy.
And Bo Schembechler was a Woody Hayes guy so there's no way he would've taken a job at Michigan.
Ferris alum here.
Daniels is roughly 55 now. I don't think he's leaving Big Rapids for anything other than retirement. He's a lifer at Ferris.
Danton Cole is also likely a non-starter as well. I still don't know why he's not the head coach at Michigan State at this moment.
Jeff Blashill is waiting for an NHL gig. I doubt he's headed back to the college ranks in the near future.
I'm not sure anyone can win big at Tech anymore. My calendar says 2014, not 1977. They haven't been in the NCAA title hunt since John MacInnes died in 1983 or so. Your best bet is likely to grab Pearson and lure him back to Ann Arbor.
Ask yourself this: when a big-time program AD goes for a freaking conference commissioner and former club hockey coach over the NDTP guy who's actually stood behind the bench in the 21st century, what does that about Danton Cole?
Yours is the informed opinion. Everything else is pretty much a pipe dream.
Rick Comley didn't recruit in his last 3 years at MSU. Danton Cole was given the job, he didn't take it. No one took the job because the program was a disaster.
Actually, it doesn't tell me much about Cole. It tells me just how bad the AD fucked up at Michigan State when he made that hire.
Again, Blashill's not going backwards at this point, Pearson is in a place where no one's won anything in 30+ years, and even though Cole got fucked over by his alma mater, I don't see him coaching behind the home bench at Yost.
Bob Daniels is in a place where, frankly, Ferris can contend year in and year out, assuming that league stays together for a decade (dangerous proposition there). And if that league falls apart, it's likely to take 5 years to do so, give or take. At that point, he's pushing 60 and looking at retirement anyway.
Michigan State is letting their hockey program to go shit like Michigan did with basketball in the 2000s. It still irritates me that by some miracle they won the national title in 2007. Otherwise Comley at msu was pretty mediocre. Now they're terrible and play in a dump.
So can we finally stick a fork in the whole damn 2014 meme now please? If there's any hidden blessing to be had in the loss last Sunday against Wisconsin and now the hockey team playing like the football team against Penn State it will be if that stupid thing goes the way of all the other memes we like to beat to fucking death.
I'd rather see people keep the meme going, since it meant that Michigan sports were doing well.
Well yeah but I think you've got the whole "cause and effect" thing backwards. We werent doing well because every third post in every fucking thread said "hey it's 2014 so it's cool" - Brian started it because 2013 sucked so hard he figured 2014 had nowhere to go but up.
Pay as much as is required. I've never figured out why we don't pay 4-7 million for a basketball/football coach. Beilein's great and maybe Hoke will be too, but we seem to never want to pay anything at all compared to Ohio.
Hoke is one of the 10 highest-paid football coaches in the country, and Beilein is in the top 20 in basketball. They're doing okay for themselves.
What a crap-ass performance tonight. Very frustrating team to watch, and I'm a big hockey fan. I really don't know what the answer is, but it's time for some form of change.
I love Red, and I always will.
In talking with a couple recent former players, the sentiment (at least from these two) is that he's kind of losing it. Hurt to hear that.
The idea that he would hang on two more years just so Babcock can step in is kind of fucking ridiculous. They need to find the best young mind in the game when Red decides to step down.
He's too old to scream at these kids. And in fact, that's a big part of his coaching style. And that's not a criticism. He turned around team after team.
He's had a great run, and he is one of the best ever.... i think its time for him to prepare the program for its next phase... sadly
This program will probably never have a more legendary coach (Heyliger is up for discussion as well) so I hate to feel like we need to discuss him leaving. He literally took Michigan hockey from nothing to a top 5-10 program every single year for 20+ years. It's incredible what he's done here and I'll forever appreciate it...but he's slipping. I hope he sees it and retires so we don't have to discuss this much more.
I hope we can get him another high point or two. Maybe a Big Ten tournament title or another frozen four berth because I'd hate to send him out with a whimper. Doesn't seem right for a coach as legendary as he is
But haven't we been holding out hope on that "maybe he'll just string together a miracle next year!" routine for about a decade? And what always happens?
It's sad, but they come and they go. Coaches get old, and coaches retire. It's not like it's news that Red is up there in years. It's this attitude of being reluctant to talk about Red leaving that has set Michigan Hockey back, IMO.
They did go to overtime in the championship a few years ago, but , yeah, other than that, it's been a while.
There we're some good years in the mid 2000s, and of course tiny Jesus, but to me if hasn't been the same michigan team since the camileri, hilbert, then comrie eras. Not as electric a team, not at all dominant. Capable of runs, but they always seemed more like a 'team got hot' run as opposed to just being a really good team.
It's not just teams that got hot, it's great teams that showed up and absolutely laid an egg, usually on the first game of an NCAA tournament weekend. For instance, it's absolutely painful to think about the fact that neither the '07 or '08 teams won a championship with the guys they had on the roster. Both teams pretty much shat the bed in the same freaking rink.
Or the infamous "let's sleepwalk until January" routine.
Also, the '09 and '12 teams soiled themselves by lifelessly losing in the first round as a #1 and #2 seed respectively.The '13 team didn't make the tournament, the '14 team is on track not to either.
Even in the Hunwick years, the '10 team was well on its way to missing the tournament before Hunwick did his thing.
Really the only season where we've outperformed in the tournament was the '11 run to the title game. Before that was....?
I've never really looked but does Shawn Hunwick have his picture anywhere honoring him in the halls of Yost? Becaue he sure as hell deserves it.
So I guess it's officially acceptable now to ask the hard questions a lot of folks have been quietly asking about Red's command of this program without getting shouted down. I'm with GMHW on this one.
I love Red with every fiber of my being, but the writing has been on the wall for a long time. Watching him behind the bench for the last three or four seasons is like watching a shadow of The Unit. Player development, discipline, and motivation has been consistently low. Teams that look great on paper underperforming in the most frustrating ways. I know, I know, Hunwick and the near-championship in 2011, but... we're seeing what happens when a great coach hangs on too long.
Look through the breakdown of every season since the 1998 title and tell me it isn't the most depressing thing you've ever seen. Too many great teams to have exactly one championship game appearance.
I think Josh Blackburn has saved Red for this long. The seemingly endless procession of good-to-excellent goalies has saved out butts in recent years. The only year we've had bad goaltending was last year, otherwise it's been an endless procession of great goalies. Sauer, Hogan, Hunwick, Racine, Nagelvoort.
If they aren't there, we probably miss the tournament in 2010 (Hunwick's magical CCHA run) and we would've reached this point already
The current ones are moving to the norm
but Nagelvoort has been a rock but for his last three games. I don't know what's going on there but he still sports something north of a .930 save percentage. Part of the reason last year was so shocking was because we didn't have a solid goalie to rely on for the first time in years
What I'd say is going on is that he's dealing with lots of shots coming off turnovers thanks to a D that has an enormous amount of trouble moving the puck out of the defensive zone.
Just go for Bob Daniels. Pay him a million a year if we have to to get him. He's a proven winner.
I want to see Mel Pearson make progress at MTU before we offer. Too much is riding on our team's future to take a chance. Bring in Daniels, Babcock, or Danton Cole and pay them up to a million a year to come here.
Red didn't have a winning record at Michigan until year 4.
Michigan Tech has finished over .500 one time in the last 30 seasons. You don't fix a program like that in 3 years.
Another potential candidate: Rick Bennett of Union.
Look at what he's done there. And being that Union is primarily a D3 school, I don't think they give out athletic scholarships. I could be completely wrong on that, though.
As they've both done well lately. I think the guy at Quinnipiac has been there almost 20 years and he just broke through so that doesn't scream HIRE ME. I don't know about the guy at Union. He's only been there a short time so maybe he's building on someone elses work, but he has had Union consistently great the last few years with few or no scholarships.
Nate Leaman built the program before he left for Providence, but Rick Bennett took the it over the top.
Where does Hockey go from here? They recruit puck-moving defensemen and hope they don't decommit or leave early.
That's an over-simplification of the issue but I wouldn't discount the effect that attrition has had because it's hit the defense hard. We're talking Michigan's-secondary-circa-Seth's-Decimated-Defense-series hard. There are guys in the lineup who wouldn't be if attrition wasn't an issue; they're getting a lot of ice time and are making the same mistakes night after night. Whether that (i.e. attrition or defensemen's errors) falls on the coaching staff or not is something I can't speak to.
Over the past few years Red's maintained that he will step down if he thinks he's no longer effective as the head coach. I trust that he's still competent enough to know when that time is, regardless of whether or not he still has the ear of the team.
It just happend to be that half of our big recruits on the blueline left early and the other half busted.
Our three for next year blew up on us. Cutler Martin will make an impact next year, but Walsh decommitted for the CHL and Christian Meike didn't have the weight to play in the USHL this year.
Nick Boka is a #1 defensemen in 2015. Luke Martin and Griffin Luce are #1 D for 2016.
Those 2016 guys must know who the next head coach is / must know Red won't be here their whole careers. I wonder what they've been told
I would imagine that he is selling them on the program and on Michigan. They can't think he will be around at that time.
To the showers and forget about this night
Ugggggggh. Killing me Michigan.
I don't care if we hire a Michigan man or not if he's right for the job. Hiring Mel Pearson at this point is foolish. He's been a head coach at one school where he's had a losing record every season he's been there. Bring in someone who's proven and pay them well.
Don't act like you have some inside info, because if you do you're clearly talking to the wrong people. You aren't an insider Bando so don't come on here and spout false info as if it were on behalf of Mich hockey
John Hynes: Head Coach of the Pittsburgh Penguins AHL affiliate for three seasons; experience coaching the USNTDP U-18s and U-17s in Ann Arbor and Team USA at World U-18 and World Junior tournaments; assistant at Wisconsin for a couple of seasons; played at Boston University from 1994-97 when BU had some NCAA tournament teams (won the NCAAs in 1995); had been considered for BU head coach job when Jack Parker retired after last season. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hynes_(ice_hockey)
The problem, IMO is recruiting. We're not talented enough and haven't been since JMFJ left. We've had bad attrition, after 2, 1, or 0(!) years, We used be be very deep on the blue line and now we have 3 D1 level defensemen. We don't have the depth at forward and don't have the talent at center like hilbert, comrie, hensick. Watching the USA team, M was repped by Pach but there were tons of Minn, NoDak, BC guys out there that we missed on- and they were right in our back yard with the NDT. (and BORK with the sweeds of course). We are recruiting second level talent out of canada who don't end up on campus half the time and if they do are gone in a year or 2. If we're going to do that, we need to be better at evaluating talent, and evaluating if they even want to play college hockey. Those guys seem to come out of the NDT program instead of 2nd level canadians, who all think they are NHL level, or at least can be convinced that they are by the CDN Major junior leagues. Those leagues saw hom much talent the NCAA pulled out of Canada in the 90s-2003 or so, declared war on US College Hockey and are winning. Michigan needed to adjust 5-10 years ago and didn't.
We didn't miss on any of those guys. Just because a player is playing for the NTDP program doesn't mean we have any chance in their recruiting.
Hockey recruiting is regional. Those players that may be in our backyard came from other places in the country. We may get the occasional player from British Columbia or the east coast, but the elite players stay in their region. Boston guys play for Boston schools. Minnesota guys play for Minnesota schools. An elite player in Michigan stays in Michigan.
Our recruiting focus is Michigan and Ontario. It would be a compete failure to focus on someone elses region.
We have guys from New York, Rhode Island, BC and Arizona.
Like I mentioned in my first post, we get the occasional prospect from the east coast and British Columbia, but strong programs keep players in-state.
Mac Bennett came from Rhode Island, which was an open state for recruiting until Providence started winning again. Boo Nieves is our only elite player to come out of New York and his coach was Matt Herr.
Complete Disaster...I stopped watching ...This loss will probably knock them out..I dont get it...What happened to Michigan Hockey...We used to dominate now we barely hang on
Hockey is the one sport where we can recruit exclusively instate and win big.