so we are not allowed to be critical of Hoke/ Borges on this site? [MOD ED: It's been real]
I got my popcorn ready
You can be, it just might cost you a trip to Bolivia or the greatest negbang of your existence.
This thread topic Blew Blew Blew!
Maybe you should get the hint Bra
there's a difference between being critical and being an idiot
You are right OP, RR would have been crucified. The reason these get taken down though is becuase people do not want to return to the time when this board was so divided and at each others throats over the coach.
See what I mean, OP. We have people on this board who cannot have a civil discussion. Therefore it is better these posts just get removed.
Many people wanted Gardner at WR. When Denard got injured, if you were one of the ones pleading for Gardner at receiver then complaining that he wasn't available at QB....
The coaches though Bellomy was a viable option and would be ready. Obviously that wasn't a good evaluation.
after 3 at the most and probably 2 drives. Gardner should have went to QB by the middle of the 3rd at the latest.
In the Nebraska game? It's optimistic to think that he could manage the offense after not taking any snaps at QB in practice for 2+ weeks
He hadn't practiced at QB since before Bama according to Hoke's press conference. So how do you think that would have gone?
OSU fan here. I frequent a lot of cfball message boards, and I will say that the censorship on here is dramatically worse than others. I'm not entirely sure if it's the mods, the users, or both, but unpopular opinions are almost always censored here. Seems odd because most of you seem rational and capable of civility.
Did you type that while pooping in a cooler?
You and your fans are hilbillies. This is a site of learn-ed doctors.
Your post and that of your fellow doctor implying I defecate in coolers totally drives home that thought.
It's your lucky day!
So an OSU fan posts a perfectly reasonable comment, and it gets neg'd. Seems like you guys just made his point for him...
We love to make fun of the trash that gets posted on the RCMB, although the fact that we discourage opinions that differ from that of the overall board is just as bad, if not worse.
Almost all moderation is done by the users (who have more than 100 MGoPoints). Only in extreme cases of trolling/stupidity will the mods step in and ban hammer the poster. (Starting threads is a different matter entirely though, bad threads can only be censored by the mods, and will be taken down accordingly). You can say what you want about it being censored, but the self regulation of the mgoboard is absolutely vital to keeping high quality discussion. I mean, have you seen other boards? Sites like MLive, RCMB and Bucknuts are like the wild-west, with very little intelligent discussion and a huge amount of name calling/stupidity. If someone wants to say stupid things on a Michigan board they are more than welcome to take part on another board, such as MLive's, but stay off of here, or else you will get downvoted a lot. (It should be noted though that we'll thought out/well stated dissenting opinions are always welcome here)
Thanks for that clarification. I guess you take the good with the bad. I will say, though, that sometimes I see posts censored for what can only be the fact it is an unpopular opinion.
Here's an example: in another topic someone posted an on-topic comment about how Michigan's D would struggle against Braxton Miller. That was instantly begged and censored. Again, it was not trolling, flame bait, off topic, or redundant. It was just not a popular comment.
Just wish there was a way that the mods could punish those who abuse their censor privileges.
Kudos to most of you who do not,
It's not censorship. When people make, clear, rational critiques that haven't been made 20 times already, they don't get taken down. In fact, people bitch about Al Borges a lot, and they stay up.
It's when someone says " what the fuck our coaches iz so dumb because we lost" for he fiftieth time that things get deleted. This is pretty close to that.
Maybe that's your problem right there: being "outraged." Disappointed, sure. Unhappy, OK. But "outraged?" Maybe you need to adjust your priorities.
Your last post was really bad. It made no sense and was really based on emotion and not factual.
I can answer the OP's question about the "outrage" at the "sloppy coaching" we've seen this year. I know where it is. Can anyone else guess where it is?
Hey guys, how is it so warm out and still snowing?
Recipe for disaster: To an otherwise delicious mix of valid criticisms of coaches/players, add:
- Gratuitous reference to Rich Rodriguez
- Over-the-top whining
- Precious little analysis
- Replacemet of analysis with blanket statements that are less than common knowledge
- Claims that anybody who disagrees is stupid/dumb
- Claims that you are a voice proclaiming from the wilderness about a higher truth that Must! Not! Be! Ignored!
All of the above works particularly well, and repeating it works even better.
I'm sure I missed a few key ingredients, but this is a good start...
It's because you touch yourself at night.
It's meant to be valid for both interpretations.
This is why we cant have nice things.
Not going to Gardner in the Nebraska game was one of Hokes greatest blunders in his time here. Possibly costing a shot in the big ten championship as the op said. However, he's made plenty of good moves here, so I can deal.
Your last post was deleted so you thought it'd be wise to make another post about the same damn thing?
Have a nuanced post about scheme and specific plays works. A pitchforks and torches rant going nowhere doesn't work.
not like he hasnt seen how to make him a high percentage passer. could you imagine a Denard team going 3 games without a touchdown?
lets call for Borges' head the way we called for RichRod's.
There is plenty of valid criticism for both Borges and Hoke but your last post truly was just a page of adolescent bitching. If you want to be critical of certain mistakes (you have some valid points) then do so in an analytical fashion, don't sound like the Mlive crowd.
The MGoMasses get quite feisty when the infaliable wisdom of any of the coaches is questioned.
Enjoy South America!
Troll me once, shame on you. Troll me twice, shame on me.
if you want people to respect your opinions, try these tips:
1) use proper spelling.
2) use proper grammar.
3) come up with original arguments that are supported by facts/data
4) don't sound like a whiny bitch.
5) when you get negbanged to bolivia, stop, think, and sit a few plays out before jumping back in for more.
you've been around long enough. you should know better.
You're still an idiot.
People didn't like your initial, stupid post? Try ripping the website as a whole, that'll work.
Go back to scout, please. The fact that you even ask this question without comprehending why your previous idiotic post got deleted speaks volumes.
All I know is if someone types the word "Unacceptable" I just click the back button.
I'm glad someone takes this stuff so seriously because those people are the ones who donate the big bucks and keep the program on or near the top, but I prefer to enjoy sports rather than let them get me all worked up. It still happens occasionally, but I've stopped looking for reasons to be pissed off.
There are times that I swear I've said something to my wife that she would deem critical and later when I bring it up, she's assured me that I had never mentioned it before.
I'm not even sure it's the way you present it (no detailed facts) or just the complaining. I think it's just because this topic has been discussed ad nauseum.
Just fucking ugh. I can't handle some of you people anymore. I just can't do it.
I've been modding this board for a long time now. It is largely thankless work, but I did it because I love the reasonable discourse that dominates this place, and only by weeding out the ridiculous minority of content can the board remain a reasonable place. And while things were bad around here during The RichRod Implosion (an underrated spin-off of the Bourne movies), The Process, and The Hiring, I assumed things would get better when things got better.
But I was was wrong. A BCS Bowl win, a 7-3 record, and a shot at the B1G Title game later, there remains a vocal but annoying segment of the population who just WON'T. SHUT. UP. But some people just can't stand but to complain about every goddamn thing. They complain about the coaches, the players, the mods, Brian, and the general bloodymindedness of the Universe. And at this point, the juice of reasonable conversation isn't worth the squeeze of dealing with people like you.
So you know what? Fuck it. I'm out.
Sorry, Brian, but consider this my retirement.
If you're serious, could I bribe you to do a few things before you turn in your powers?
YOU get a million points... YOU get a million points... YOU get a million points...
I didn't see your first post, Blue Blue Blue, so I can only speak generally. But, I know this has come up before from other posters.
There are several places where someone can say whatever their opinion of Michigan sports is, regardless of how substantiated, intelligent, coherent, etc. it is. See: MLive, Detroit Free Press, Facebook, ESPN.com, etc. I think the mods at MGoBlog are trying to make sure this does not become one of those places. Personally, I like it that way. I like knowing that when I click on a thread here, I an expect a certain degree of reason. At least, relative to everything else on the Internet.
To address your post here itself -- the reason that people think it's ridiculous is that Hoke and company show time and time again that they can take lemons, eat them, then poop magic. If he makes mistakes, he's owed a huge deal of slack. See: OSU, MSU, bowl monkeys off of our backs.
Gardner was our second best WR. There was a lot of value putting him in the lineup, and it was a reasonable gamble. I don't think anyone could have reasonably predicted Gardner would have been so competent-to-good at QB right away either, based on previous playing time, Spring performance, etc. Also, @MINN & VS. NW <> @NU with division title on the line.
First of all, acting like lack of preparation is the reason Bellomy struggled against Nebraska is just dumb. He's ridiculously young, was playing in a hostile environment for the first time, and probably isn't that good.
Everyone, with the benefit of hindsight, realizes Gardner was the better option. We all wish he had come in at some point against the Huskers.
This has not cost us anything. If we go 7-1 and still miss out on the title game that will be awful luck, but it hasn't happened yet.
You are also bitching about a hypothetical situation where we simply fail to go undefeated in conference play. Lloyd Carr did that once. Nick Saban has done it once in his career (twice if you don't count a conference title game loss). Pete Carroll did it only twice in the midst of a historically great run at USC. Jim Tressel did it twice at OSU.
Just about everybody loses a game just about every season. Stop freaking out.
OP, you clearly need to understand how things work here.
1) Original opinions are not valued. Essentially find the posters with >5000 points and paraphrase their comments. You should be fine.
2) Posts with kittens, Hoke/Borges popular phrases like "boo-boo" and pictures of Hoke pointing all "add value". Anything resembling a criticism will be neg'd.
There is nothing original about the OP. Nothing.
I thought this was America.
But because of voting, you risk downvotes. No one is stopping you from being critical.
Also, if you are going to be critical, try to be lucid and clear in your argument for or against something. Magnus, for instance, has been quite critical of not taking a QB in every class. Because Michigan had the following:
- Shane Morris
I can understand Hoke and Borges rolling the dice and deciding to go with 4 QB. That didn't work out so well.
Getting back to your initial point, criticism is ok, but do a better job of backing it up.
Its so easy to sit there and criticize when you have no idea what is going on behind the scenes...Brady Hoke is 18-5 at U of M with a Sugar bowl win...sloppy coaching doesnt bring those kind of results. Will everyone agree with the coaching?...no and that will never be the case. If you look at the body of work Hoke and his staff has done with the players they have its simply amazing...
Wow, you have actually made a mod bow up. Congrats! And i hope you enjoy Bolivia.
Here's some advice:
-Measured criticism is generally okay. If you were to say something like "With the benefit of hindsight, how do you feel now about Gardner playing/practicing at WR the first half of the season?" you might get some jerks downvoting you, but there would be people willing to discuss that topic. It's the "Where is the outrage?" and "Why aren't we running the guy out of town?" stuff that really gets people upset.
-Let go of the RichRod-was-a-martyr stuff. Rich Rod was not a Glen Mason type who got results but wasn't appreciated. He didn't get results. His problem, first and foremost, was going 15-22, and losing his team at the end of his third season, as the Gator Bowl humiliation showed. After that game, pretty much all neutral observers in the CFB world knew his goose was cooked.
-Instead of railing at people with whom you disagree, consider why they might have an opposite perspective. This staff has gone 18-5, which I think any of us would have taken in a heartbeat back in January 2011. That good record has bought them goodwill, just as the previous staff's poor record cost it goodwill. It is, above all, a results-oriented business.
Likewise, while one can argue that Borges hasn't done the best job working with Denard (though they are nevertheless 16-5 together, and might be 17-4 if he hadn't gotten hurt against NU), our offensive success the last two weeks might suggest that Borges alone may not have been the problem. Is it unthinkable that Denard Robinson might have some fundamental flaws as a QB that opponents have thoroughly scouted by this point - flaws that Devin Gardner does not have? If anything, the last two weeks have reassured me about Borges as both an OC and QB coach.