So much for no flyover vs. Eastern
September 17th, 2011 at 8:37 PM ^
I have missed all of 2 home games in the last decade and I have never seen an airliner fly that low, during a game, right over the stadium.
September 17th, 2011 at 8:49 PM ^
Because they TRY not to do it. Sometimes you just can't help it.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:00 PM ^
Pretty sure you're nice and comfy at your laptop right now so it'll be okay.
September 17th, 2011 at 8:23 PM ^
No one on the ground really knows what's going on up there, why a 747 (or whatever it was) is so close to 110,000+ shoulder-shoulder people. In this day and age, it's not very easy to just ignore something like that.
I get what you're saying though...
September 17th, 2011 at 8:30 PM ^
I have never had the pleasure of being directed over a stadium. I would think is would be cool. I always take my extended lens camera just in case I get the opportunity. But I typically fly D95 and northward so all I get to do is buzz the corn fields.
September 17th, 2011 at 8:26 PM ^
needs to calm down. The FAR is very clear with regards to restricted air space over stadiums.
The air space only goes up to 3000 AGL. Also any air space is restricted only if the aircraft is not unter ATC control. If a plane (any size) is under ATC control and is squaking a unique transponder code, and is following ATC direction (or averting an emergency) can "bust" controlled air space.
The plane over the stadium was probably at about 5000 but looked lower because it was such a large plane. Remember Willow Run is a commercial air port as well and runway 9 extends through Ann Arbor.
Every pilot knows that stadiums are restricted 1 hour before and after the game. NOTAMS are issued every day alerting pilots to which stadiums are "hot". Most large air craft receive NOTAMS directly in the cockpit nowdays.
I have NEVER busted any airspace because they WILL shoot you down. This is no joke and any pilot who wants to be a smart @ss will get his wings clipped before he lands his bird.
September 17th, 2011 at 9:32 PM ^
This pilot was flying at 4000 AGL which is perfectly legal. Even if he slipped below 3000 AGL I doubt he would have received more than a stern warning from ATC.
DirtyD would you like to comment?
September 17th, 2011 at 9:41 PM ^
So do you not think it's reasonable to worry about something that I know nothing about in this day and age? Seeing something like that, when you assume (reasonably, I think) that a "no-fly zone" means you just don't fly over it at all, is pretty worrisome. How do we know that it isn't something that's gone wrong? I don't have a radio with connections to the FAA. Sorry 'bout that. Isn't it better to wonder/ask for some information than just let it go? You should be much more understanding than you are right now. Not everyone is a pilot.
September 17th, 2011 at 9:54 PM ^
you mean. What if a tanker full of gasoline drives the Big House and explodes? Or a Ryder moving truck A-la Ok-City? We can take this to the nth degree.
The fact remains that no one was in any danger and fear is usually not rational.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:08 PM ^
I agree with everything you have said MGoSoftball. I was there, saw it and really didn't think anything was wrong.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:02 PM ^
Not if atc said fly and maintain 4,000 or 3,000 or what ever it was ATC knows the TFR's are there however if they want they can clear you through them and h wason an IFR flight plan. This is no different than say an accident on an interstate or construction on a road in which the driver would make a detour and travel on a route that isnt normal. The plane was just most likely doing the same thing that the car was. In aviation terms he was deviating from his normal routing. I understand people are upset because they are not firmiliar with flying which is ok but please people lets be real here there are more risks than a plane flying over the stadium. You were at a greater risk of dying while driving your car to the stadium.
September 17th, 2011 at 9:27 PM ^
While there may be some overreaction, I think some people Are missing the point. Down in the stadium we don't know what is going on when we see a giant plane flying low over a space that we know as "a no fly zone", it is alarming. It could be under control of a great pilot, but the bottom line is it is alarming. I think some just want an official explanation, and they are entitled to that. Probably a reasonable Explanation, just let us hear it from an official source.
September 17th, 2011 at 9:33 PM ^
This is EXACTLY what I am talking about, and I believe what others are. The two guys talking about their constant flights over stadiums (I'm exaggerating on "constant") are pilots and are not really understanding at all what people are feeling in the stadium who know nothing about what is happening.
Sorry for the stupid sentence grammar people. My eternal apologies. :)
September 17th, 2011 at 9:38 PM ^
that is my point. People "thought" he busted the RAS. When in fact he was 1000 feet above it.
People need not to over react and cause more drama. What if someone said, "that plane is in the restricted air space, it must be going to crash into the Big House, Everyone RUN for your lives". People could be killed in a needless stampede
It is over reaction that causes problems. This pilot was minding his own business, having a wonderful day with a little unknown issue that was no biggie.
When I saw it, i figured he was about 5000 AGL.
September 17th, 2011 at 9:53 PM ^
I agree, and that's why I said there is some overreaction. But on the other hand, that's sorta my point. The lay person could look up and have no sense of how high that was. Yes it was 4000 ft and above the zone, but a lot of people won't know that and overreact. Isn't safer to just avoid the airspace all together, to prevent such a hub-bub? Maybe it was unavoidable, but I still think an explanation was warranted, and it seems like if the article above is accurate, it has been made. And, now maybe people will have a better understanding of the no fly zone and how it works.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:09 PM ^
Look this is on the ILS into south bend commerical jets fly this along with small general aviation planes there are several approaches like this i was late to tke the picture because my student was having some troubble getting established. Thats ND stadium.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:05 PM ^
The pilot probably had no idea he was flying directly over the Big House until it popped up right in front of him. He'd know he was west of DTW, probably aware he was over AA, setting up for the ILS and maybe looking for traffic out of Willow Run. Much more than likely, he was under vectors for some sort of spacing from Approach and definitely not guilty of violating the TFR.
Some of the opinions on enforcing TFRs in this thread are incredible. We took the EXTRAORDINARY step of setting up a CAP composed of a two-ship of F-16's over NYC and the Nation's Capital in the weeks following 9/11, a time when this country was on its most alert footing since the height of the Cold War. It is inconceivable to expect an airborne patrol over every CFB stadium, every Saturday. The Selfridge ANG F-16 unit is now in Toledo anyway. And while we may be arrogant about having the largest capacity stadium in the country, doesn't Beaver Stadium (106,000) or the Shoe (102,000) present a just-as-tempting target? Not to mention something like the Daytona 500, where well over 170,000 may be in attendance. Airliners fly over large stadiums, nuclear power plants, dams, bridges, schools, water treatment plants, and your neighborhood Walmart every day without event. Hell, people violate the DC ADIZ all the time, and some have even busted the FRZ without getting shot down. Most of the time it's:
Said PPL-holder then gets a stern talking to by the SS and then maybe some sort of certificate action by the FAA, but they're not going to be shot down. Congress & the White House may even be evacuated but I'll believe the military intentionally shoots down an airliner or GA aircraft (not to include the Iranian Airbus/ U.S.S. Vincennes incident) the day we turn into the USSR.
As an aside, I too have flown directly over Notre Dame's stadium while on an ILS approach for one of their runways (looking at Google Maps/Airnav, it must have been ILS LOC 27L). It was memorable because I made a hard turn directly over the empty stadium, noticed something out of the corner of my eye, looked right, and saw fuel streaming out of the wingtip fuel vent. It was spilling out due to the combination of my high AoB and full tanks, since I had come directly from Battle Creek. It's not every day that you get to dump gas all over ND's stadium!
September 17th, 2011 at 10:11 PM ^
Thank you yes look up i posted the picture of ILS 27L from a 172.... I wish i woulda had a cinder block or something hahah JK that would be illegal.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:08 PM ^
Do you people get outraged and write letters when somebody gets through airport security without removing their sandals?
September 17th, 2011 at 10:13 PM ^
September 17th, 2011 at 10:19 PM ^
I understand that but sometimes there are just things you cant avoid. ATC cleared him there most likely due to other traffic in the area. They dont like to do this and being a pilot I hate being low. The higher I am the safer I am generally speaking. I'm sure if the pilot had a choice we would not be talking about this right now.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:21 PM ^
People are scared of what they don't know. Point being what does it matter if your scared? Your scared feelings wont change the laws or make you go back in time and that plane not be there. Id suggest you learn to get over your fears. You're an adult I assume. I'm not saying take risks either and just go wild.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:22 PM ^
Sorry I got so worked up everybody. Just really more curious than anything about what happened. I didn't know the real rules of no fly zones. Thanks to everyone who answered respectfully to the question. I did send an email to the AD, but it was more for more information than out of anger, although I did say the word "disturbed" in the email... I think it is reasonable to request some information from an official that is directly involved, and I hope that you all can agree with that.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:40 PM ^
I agree but, if you wanted to get your voice across in a more correct fashion you should notify the NTSB and FAA. They would be able to get back to you more quickly and with better info.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:51 PM ^
Makes me think that the terrorists won...
September 18th, 2011 at 5:28 PM ^
This.
September 18th, 2011 at 8:12 AM ^
obviously I'm no pilot, but what prevents him from being 5 wingspan widths west so he's not directly over the stadium? Metro is what 15-20 miles from AA still?
September 18th, 2011 at 1:18 PM ^
I was at the game and never even noticed this. You mean I had the chance to irrationally panic and missed out? Damn!