You are right, and being relatively young doesn't change that.
maybe i should have had greg howard write the brandon obit.
You are right, and being relatively young doesn't change that.
That's why sometimes it is actually more fun to be at the games when your team is not very good.
Don't get me wrong, I want to see my teams win, but actually going to the games is not always a pleasurable experience when you have a bunch of angry bandwagoners shouting, "Fuck you player/coach X" because we couldn't convert a 3rd and short early in the 1st quarter when the score is tied.
I remember going to Michigan basketball games with a dozen or so people and there was no one there except for students.
Some of my best experiences going to games has been when the teams, either Michigan or professional, weren't very good.
Damn right. It's easy to be a fan when things are going great and your team is winning.
But those who run, ditch their team in tough times don't deserve the right to slink back when things get better. Saw it last year on here with the hockey team towards the end of the season.
It's pathetic to me.
Who made you judge of acceptable fandom?
but I concur completely with the fairweather fan issue. Fandom endurance through struggle is ultimately more rewarding when the team comes back and does well. I'm a Lions fan, so I understand investing emotionally a bit less when mediocrity or worse is the norm, but I would never renounce my fandom or choose to not root for my team.
Bando is kind of a cock sometimes. Don't worry about it.
Booing does not make you a shitty person IMO. You guys are entitled to your opinion but people who want to express their displeasure are entitled to theirs as well.
Letters and emails are not read. The ordinary fan has no real power except their voice and wallet. Those fans should be allowed to use these tools if they wish and should not be shamed for doing so.
year after year people have still gone to the Lions games even when they went 0-16. They're one of the worst franchises in the history of pro sports. Yet Ford Field is packed every Sunday
You're always gonna have those dbags that leave when the going gets tough, like the hockey team last year.
But the football team is not the hockey team. The football team has been mediocre for years. They hockey team went to a national championship three years ago. Way more people are irritated about the whole football thing, and with good reason.
And I'm 19 fwiw.
After 20 more years of this suckitude, you might have the wisdom to understand.
Young or old. He's not wrong in his sentiment.
If you're one of those fans, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
holy crap you are on a tear this morning
but if you keep going to the game you can keep booing right, because you havent said fuck it and stopped caring and thus aren't a bandwagon fan? just wanted to make sure i wasn't a bandwagon fan if i go to a game and boo
1. Stop charging the fans like they're going to receive the best product in the country if you aren't going to deliver it. Enjoy watching the student section's apathy with next year's schedule.
2. We aren't students, alumni, and fans anymore, we're customers - Dave Brandon has ensured that. Booing is feedback in the suggestion box showing how he might adjust the WOW factor to increase future delightfulness.
Holier than thou, yadda yadda yadda.
So a 3-8 season and snapping a historically long bowl streak won't make people jump ship but a 6-3 season with a bevy of 4 and 5-star recruits on the horizon will?
Man this fanbase is soft as hell
The why are we freaking out over 6 and 3 argument is bullshit and you know it. The team almost lost to Akron and Uconn who are both horrible. The team looks worse every week and staff has not been effective at trying to adapt to the current players capabilities. I don't disagree that firing hoke after this season would be a questionable decision. Replacing the offensive staff however is not unreasonable.
This is the reason the boos are coming out. The players know its not them, they're not oblivious to things around them.
Borges is going insane. doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Why else would we be running off tackle plays? It's one thing to set up another play (which seems to be Al's greatest explanation) but when the defense doesn't honor it and still makes a tackle for no gain or negative yards you're not setting anything up...only a 3 and out.
3-8 we all saw coming. The 6-3 with a team that is regressing with each snap of the ball and is led by a coaching staff that suddenly exhibits the inability to accept a failed strategy is not something any of us foresaw. In the post-Carr era I've seen damn some bad Michigan football, but there was always effort put forward on the field by the coaches and players (even if it was in futility). This year has been marked by apathy all around. That's what I'm most pissed off about.
I am not sure it helps when he is so conservative relative to his offensive approach. An aggressive coach would be willing to forgo his philosophy in order to put the talent he has, not the talent he wants, in a position to win. Hoke/Borges want to run power but the current players are not capable of doing it. Hell they would not even stick with the quick passing game after it worked for the first drive of the second half. The current approach is not working. It's not just failure to execute. The current players are not capable of executing this offense. Throw caution to the wind and try something else for Christ sake.
Anybody who wishes physical harm on a player, especially one in college, is a low life. With that being said, I have no problem with the boos. I know the kids are trying - I know - but sports are supposed to be a form of entertainment and whatever that was this afternoon certainly wasn't the least bit entertaining (at least to me).
Throw in the fact that Michigan's ticket prices are among the highest in the country and that a sizable portion of the home games this year have been poorly played and I don't blame those booing one bit.
Missed tackles, abysmal blocking, dropped passes, and, most importantly, horrible playcalling do not make for a fun Saturday. Two of the game's most exciting moments were the opposition flubbing a punt and a banked in field goal. It's inevitable that some boos were meant for the players, which sucks, but for those booing the coaching, the playcalling, or the wasted Saturday watching mediocre, boring football - I'm with you.
i operate under the premise that if a player is an adult, who signed up knowing they were going to be a part of a major football program with an intense fanbase and intense media scrutiny, who is sold on the fact they'll be playing in front of 112,000 people every week, and gets a free education in the process...
They can deal with a little booing, not just when their coaches are failing them, but when they aren't executing, either. That's what's happening here. I'm not saying I'm quick to boo at a college sporting event, but I'm not going to pretend to be morally opposed to it.
These aren't children. These are adults playing a sport in front of a crowd paying a rather substantial amount of money to watch them do so. This isn't the Little League county championship or your daughter's rec soccer league.
Putting aside "moral" issues, do you think it's productive for fans to turn on their own team? Booing is discouraging to the home team and encouraging to the visitors. It's just a bad idea.
I don't think anyone sees it as productive, rather a Last resort.
My aversion to booing has nothing to do with whether the players can handle it or not. I make most of my decisions on a cost/benefit analysis type of process. What good does booing do? What ill can it cause?
And the argument of "it sends a message" is complete bullshit. We lost and played like shit. The coaches and administration don't need boos to know this. They don't think the fans are psyched about that outcome. Booing just makes us look like shitty fans, if to no one else, then to the recruits who are deciding whether or not this is the place for them.
This is pretty much my opinion on the matter.
the boos arent to let the coaches and administration know we played like shit, because they for sure know how bad we played. its to let the coaches and administration know we aren't going to tolerate it and that there needs to be a change, because i dont think they would think that a change was needed or that we weren't ok with it if we werent booing
If you're going to ask a family to throw down $500 to get in line for tickets and then hundreds upon hundreds to actually aquire the tickets, and then gouge them on parking, and then gouge them on concessions under the premise that you're going to play a legitimate football game for them to watch , and then don't deliver, you've earned your boos. This isn't high school football. This is one of the most expensive events in the state of Michigan. And if you don't have any expectation of a return on your $1000 dollars then so be it, because that's not the usual response as we learned today.
Booing attacks college kids whether you want it to or not, and it makes Michigan less appealing to recruits. Meanwhile, it accomplishes nothing that couldn't be done by sending DB an email.
Who says the fans weren't upset with the players? I wasn't at this game and I'm not at a point where I would want to boo a player for their performance, but listening to the color commentary's reaction to the blocking and Devin's performance showed that at least some people seriously question what they're doing out there. I would argue that the booing further enforces that.
What? I can't tell if you're arguing for booing college kids.
People did it today. If this is news to you, then read this: http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/10/former_oregon_player_disgusted.html
And that team won on that day.
That doesn't make it right! You realize this at some level, yes?
I said earlier that I wouldn't have booed a player today , and it hasn't been my point that I would want to. What I'm getting at is that you keep bringing up the point that "players hear the boos as well as the coaches do" as an argument for people to stop booing, yet there's a pretty good chance the players were exactly why they're booing. I don't care if it's right, wrong, or in the middle in regards to this discussion, a lot of people did that today and got their point across.
recruits consider another team. Lets face it, top recruites want to play for winning programs that will have a shot at the NC! This is the reason why Mr. Hand will end up picking Alabama over Michigan next week.
I also hate this argument. No one promised you a win when you bought your tickets. You were promised admission to the game. And whenever you buy tickets to a sporting event, you risk your team not playing well and/or losing. That doesn't mean that you didn't get your money's worth. If you book a trip to Hawaii and it rains all week, you can't ask the hotel for your money back. That's just the risk you take.
I almost wish Michigan would suck for like 5 years. Like really suck. Have like a Noah's Ark fo Michigan football where the people who want on the boat can stay on, and then we'll see who's left at the end. And then if we get good again, everyone who chose not to stay on the boat would get left out.
I know this wouldn't happen, because in real life people would just jump back on the boat when things got good again, but that would be my wish.
Did anyone ask for their money back? If I went to Hawaii for a week and it rained the whole time you'd better believe I would be upset. I probably wouldn't boo the hotel staff seeing as they're not responsible for the weather, but I certainly would still be upset. Instead in this scenario you have the people who are directly responsible for the product on the field standing right there. Thus, people boo. If I went to a hotel and the staff was terrible the whole time, then yeah, I'd let them know about that.
How is booing akin to asking for your money back? Why should you just sit on your hands and not voice displeasure at a sporting event, when it's perfectly acceptable in nearly every other venue of the human experience?
I guess I find the least of our worries when it comes to outside conceptions of our program to be the fans when the OC can't call a game for shit, the quarterback is playing like he's scared of getting hit because his offensive line won't protect him, our starting running back forgets how to block, and our coach keeps giving "aw shucks" pressers that make him sound increasingly inarticulate and out of touch.
But, hey, recruits care more about the fact the paying customers are booing instead of appealing to the better angels of their natures and accepting it all with a smile and a "you'll get 'em next week!"
You would have been cool if people booed while you played your instrument, essentially saying "this band sucks"? You're part of the experience, right? Why can't they boo you?
OK, I'll bite. An MMB performance is a performance, not a sport. There's no good outcome/bad outcome with measurable results (yardage, points, wins/losses, etc.). The people in the stands paid to go to a football game, and get a band performance along with it. What exactly are they going to boo that is akin to an inability to get a first down, or a complete blocking fail that results in yet another sack? I get what you're saying, but the analogy doesn't work.
That being said, what I'd say having been booed plenty of times is what I expect a lot of players would say: You use it as fuel to be better the next time. That's how you react to it like an adult.
(Also, wouldn't it be required for people to hear it to boo it? Too soon?)
Have you seen the stuff the OSU band has been doing this year? Look for it on Toutube. I'm serious. They are leaving the Michigan band in the dust. Why can't I boo the Michigan band's substandard performance? Why aren't they keeping up with OSU? These damn band folks need to get their asses in gear!
The band members are adults, right?
I'm not biting again. You've made your point.
if you havent seen it you def should watch it, its very impressive
Interesting, I've never thought about measuring the marching band performance that way.
Every time you make this point it's fantastic and highlights the absurdity of it all.
Boo the football players? "YEAHUHHH! THEY WERE TURRIBLE! I PAID GUDT MONEY NOT TO SEE THIS GARBAGE! I'LL BOO ALL I GODDAMN WANT! RABBLE RABBLE!"
Boo the band? "...Uh no...they're just kids. Why would you ever do that?"
Hypothetical: Say you're a fan of this team and you pay a lot of money each year to see them play. This team has shown for 1.5 years absolute ineptitude at running the football. Now say you're in a tight game and get a critical turnover deep in the opponent's territory. You've had some success passing the ball and you're averaging about 1 ypc on rush attempts over the last game and a half. Well, naturally your offensive coordinator dials up two straight runs to set up 3rd and nine. You go on to kick a field goal and end up losing by 4.
Now say this is essentially a pattern for three years. Does the fan have any legitimate gripe or should s/he just be happy that they could experience such an event because in someways it was legitimately mind blowing?
The fans have every right to boo tonight, ecspecially with the amount of money that some people (like my Dad) pour into season tickets year after year. The fans were sending a message, and I hope that the players realize 90% of the booing was going towards Hoke and Borges, and not directed towards them (although I can't say they haven't played boo-worthy lately).