In this thread, you have an opportunity to discuss your thoughts on the coaching and coaching decisions made in the Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl.
to play football, not to play trumpet
It's a joke
Fuck this, fire Borges, Put in Shane, 2013 sucks ass. Fuck Fuck Fuck Fire Fire Fire. Suck. Ass.
22 yards rushing?
Bottom line- we simply got worse... all... year... long.
They were a bad team all year long, we were just able to overlook it through the first 6 weeks thanks to eeking out some wins.
This team did not regress over the course of the year. They were exploited for the team they truly were as the year went on.
what, with the 25 yards rushing in 14 attempts, excluding Shane's 40 yarder.
Or 11 yds in 13 attempts if you exclude a Funchess 14 yard reverse.
Fire all of them.
I'm gonna go watch Red Tube for a while to cheer me up.
Thanks for making me lol
If nothing else, I've learned something tonight.
What is this Red Tube thing you speak of? Twizzlers?
Ohhh I'm sure they use twizzlers sometimes....
It is a lot like "Hot Girls" on you blog, Magnus, just with fewer clothes and it is Co-Educational.
Are running out.
Did not have the team ready today.
Next year unfortunately is do or die.
Even worse: it will likely be die. And then it begins again...
>>Next year unfortunately is do or die.
I thought it was this year. And the year before that. And the year before that...
Now, I've got food poisoning...
Coaching transitions suck balls. You lose players, you suck for a while, it all sucks. That would be our third in 8 years and we've got so much talent in the freshman-junior classes (especially amongst the OL) and I would hate to see it all crumble with transfers and decommitments
would have been preferred over whatever we have
Both Harbaughs to unite at Michigan!!
See ya Hoke. If this regime is still in place next year I will not walk into the big house.
We don't need "fans" like you in the Big House. Stay the fuck home.
Guess you won't be going to the Big House next year then. There's no way Hoke gets fired.
So I guess we'll see you there when were winning more games? Idiot
Love Hoke and Mattison, but this was completely unacceptable. The team didnt even look like the wanted to be there. I'm sure they did, and I'm sure they gave the effort, but it for damn sure didn't look like it. Pathetic display of football.
Love hoke and mattison. Why?
His 73-62 career record!
Please explain yourself.
Can we ban the word unacceptable?
Mattison lived off Borges Hate for a long time. Look, Squirrel doesn't work.
He's been a disappointment
more than one plus?
Create a new account and post like crazy.
Close to yet another under 200 yds no TD performance....nothing much else to say.
Hire Ron Prince?
Sure he can recruit in the MAC real well
There is really no objective evidence at this point to say this coaching staff is up to this job. It seems that Denard covered up for quite a bit the last two years. I am disappointed, above all else. I thought it would work out, and it really seems like it won't. This staff has been all bluster and all talk and little to no results.
I don't want to hear about tradition, recruiting, toughness, or any of that bs. They've lost any benefit of the doubt. Quit the crap and do a better job.
This team is soft and undisciplined. This is Job #1 for whomever coaches and trains these guys for next year.
talk, shut the hell up. It's embarrassing to see players running their mouths while getting blown out all of the time.
Small time coaches for small time programs.
Team needs a huge infusion of fresh blood in terms of coaching talent. Something isn't right and it never will be as long as we stick with a philosophy of continuity.
Explain what that means please. There has been anything but continuity over the past 6 or so years with the UM football program.
I bet if we start putting people on "hot seats" everything will get better in one year.
I'm only kinda kidding and that makes me sad.
Well we did hire a guy in our history with a freaking degree from Ohio State and that worked out ok.
I think he could have been a good coach if not for one regrettable evening but I'm not sure you can say that his hire "worked out OK."
Pretty sure he's talking about Bo's master's degree from Ohio State.
what an amazing situation to be in where i think: wow, that's a good idea.
Here's a snowflake: get a look at the other sideline. There's a great college head football coach.
Ding ding. Winner!
chicken (wing) dinner?
I'm sorry to say it, but this kind of mediocrity is not acceptable at Michigan.
Mine got nuked.
This was embarrassing. This was Mississippi State embarrassing. Atleast 90% of people are asleep.
Borges was okay today, but he couldn't run fakes for Shane so he didn't have to spin before throwing the ball?
The defense has regressed the past 3 years. Why didnt we make adjustments. Why were our corners playing off the line... They aren't that good Greg, give them safety help.
Hoke is out coached every time. He is lost, and I am beginning to question if he's the right coach for us. I don't want to hear an excuse about how were young, or we didn't execute... Take responsibility for once please.
The coaching staff is running the PA to the wrong side of Morris. As a lefty the PA needs to be on the left side of the QB not the fucking right. Hoke you stupid fuck!
okay good idea let's make the entire offense relearn their position routes assignments etc for one game with a new qb
It's just the opposite direction. Can't be that different. If they can't adjust for that with all the prep time before the bowl game, then I'm not sure what they can do.
If it is so hard to adjust the offense for a lefty, then why recruit him in the first place. You will likely have to make the adjustment back again in a couple of years. I love all of the built in excuses for failure.
PA is set up by faking the handoff with the right hand for a lefty QB. A righty fakes the handoff with the ball in his left hand. Watch a little football.
Less than 2 minutes left in the half, and we go under center in the I formation. WTF coaches. No one on the KSU team was thinking, "boy, they are going to run the ball here." Stupid wasted play again by our offense.
Also, 1st 2 possessions when Al has his plays scripted, we move the ball. Rest of the game, Al can't read the defensive adjustments to exploit their weaknesses.
Hire Saban. There I said it.
Can't believe it took until this far down to see Saban's name pop up
Brandon cares more about milking money out of alumni and perverting the brand than putting a winning team on the field.
I'm afraid you may be right about this. Brandon sees Michigan football as a brand to be marketed and monetized rather than as a tradition to be preserved.
Paradoxically, Brandon is stuck on a hidebound version of what makes up a "Michigan Man" that is based on a simplistic view of the man who coached the team when he played there -- Bo Schembechler.
What people don't realize about Bo was how much he adapted. His teams evolved over time -- Schembechler wasn't an innovator but he sure paid attention to what others were doing and if it worked, he was liable to use it. If you don't believe me, go ahead and peruse some of the old Wolverine Historian videos and pay attention to formations and playcalling.
Dave Brandon needs to realize that "Michigan Man" does not necessarily equal "Manball". Michigan's tradition precedes Bo Schembechler (great as he was) and at its core is winning with integrity. You can smashmouth it, spread it, or sling it, as long as you win honestly.
But if you can't do that, all the canned music, flyovers, light shows, neutral site games, and uniform number gimmicks in the world won't paper that over.
I honestly don't know what to do with this coaching staff right now, but if I were Brandon, right now I'd be stripping all the marketing crap away -- just to send a message to the rest of the program -- and then I'd be thinking about what kind of coaching staff gives us the best chance to win.
I don't understand why anyone would neg the above post. It is spot on, well written and highlights a major component of the problem that we saw last night.
A white quarterback was our leading rusher?
Dumb comment. Remember Steve smith?
Maybe that Shane looks above average?
First time in a few years
First time in a few years
I hope the 30 seconds you were above 1k was glorious
Thank you for your service but good luck on your job search.
I knew Michigan would lose. I knew, frankly, that there wasn't much to take from the game either way. With Devin in maybe the offense has a spark and we're looking at a 24-24 game late or something.
But I'm growing skeptical. It sounds like there won't be changes. If so, I'm actually fine with that. Let Hoke work and sweat and labor to make next year' s team good. Maybe it can come together.
The schedule is tough, so I don't expect a playoff berth. But if they lose to both MSU and OSU, they had better win every other game. 9-3 with losses to both rivals should be fireable next year, unless some VERY unusual circumstances happen.
Next year is sink or swim. Fun time is over.
A playoff berth??? Are you delusional? I'd be happy with a 9 win season.
"Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game."
Delusional to say "I don't expect a playoff berth?"
Or something else?
9 wins is ok on occasion, down years and all that. But 9 wins does not earn a Rose Bowl berth, and certainly doesn't merit national playoff contention, and those are goals that Michigan should have and at least occasionally reach.
If, in Hoke's 4th year, he can only achieve 9 wins with a roster consisting mostly of his recruits, than it is likely he will never be able to do much better than that. I might be willing to mitigate that if there are some important wins (say, OSU), but otherwise I will be off the wagon. More importantly, Dave Brandon will probably feel the same way.
I hope it isn't Dave Brandon making the decision.
Funny you should bring up the schedule because that's making me dread next year.
We have the worst home schedule in school history with our biggest games being Penn State and Minnesota. No rival teams traveling to the big house for the first time in 48 years, a second consecutive trip to East Lansing, a trip to Columbus where nothing has gone right in 13 years, a trip to South Bend where Notre Dame traditionally gets away with flukey shit and help from the refs.
Combine that with a coaching staff that doesn't improve the players over the course of the season. This is not making me feel good.
Well this would be a good time for things to come together and Michigan to finally play like an elite team that actually plays sharp and loose on the road.
If they don't, they will lose, and we will be trying to outbid Florida for a head coach.
^^^^^ This pretty much sums it up. Dave Brandon sucks ^^^^
Typical mindless straw-man argument: "I think Brandon is an idiot, so I think he'll leave Hoke to protect his image."
So I must conclude that you believe that Brandon doesn't care about money. That puts you at odds with most of the board.
Why do I say this? Because if Michigan scrapes together a mere 7 wins next season, they will be bowl eligible. Apparently good enough for your view of DB. But if DB cares about money, your logic falls apart.
Because next year will be a tough sell for tickets as it is. There's a chance the 100k streak will be broken. Some season tix holders are already turning theirs in.
If Michigan is this bad next year, the apathy will become open revolt. Doners will start seriously grumbling. No-shows will become a problem. Booing will be rife. The negative feelings will attract national attention.
And DB will see, just like with RR, that Michigan athletics will have serious money problems if the staff is retained after another season like this one. The fanbase will be pushed past it's breaking point, and only a new regime could possibly provide the hope necessary to retain the base.
And he would make the change.
The good news? There's talent on this team. The right coach can win and win big with these players.
We find out next year if we have the right coach.
I'm relying on what I see with my eyes and hear with my ears. On what my mother, season ticket holder and Stephen Ross Business School graduate (masters degree) talks about. And on a logical analysis, rather than an emotional broadbrush cartoon of a person I have invented in my own mind.
If you think that holding on to a mediocre football coach as your loyal fanbase streams for the exits and stops donating and spending money is good for one's image, you must have a funny idea of how one gets elected in politics. Frankly, you've allowed your dislike of Brandon to cloud your judgment, to the point that you will believe anything you imagine about him as long as its bad. Thus you invent an evil genius who is so corrupt that he will deliberately make bad business decisions if you think the decision is wrong.
If you think people won't flee for the exits if Michigan has a rough season next year, you haven't watched much college football in other venues lately. You haven't seen how Tennessee's mediocrity has bled passion out of its fanbase, and left it with not-infrequent empty seats in its gorgeous stadium. You haven't seen the thousands of empty seats at places like the Swamp, whose fanbase is allegedly as passionate as any in the country. You haven't seen the empty seats at Beaver Stadium, home of a fanbase still known for its passion and cohesion even as it began having a hard time selling out even before the Sandusky scandal beset them with chaos. You didn't see all the empty seats at Auburn last season, a fanbase two years removed from a perfect season. And you clearly didn't hear Nick Saban begging Alabama students to show up to cheer on perhaps the most dominant football team of my lifetime.
College football lives on a bubble. It is very close to deflating. People are emotionally attached to Michigan football and always will be; however, if the emotions associated with actually attending games becomes almost universally negative, people will stop seeing that as a good way to spend their many hundreds or thousands of dollars.
And Brandon, a businessman, will see that disaster looms. And he will make a change.
If next year is as bad as this year and Brandon gives Hoke another season, then you have to start to look at the Athletic Department leadership. At that point you have to wonder whether they are placing relationships and pride above winning. They have both been hired to demonstrate results not line their pocketbooks. You have a coaching staff paid top ten money and an AD that is the highest paid staffer at Michigan.
Results are what matter! Period!
Playoffs! Given the tougher schedule in 2014 and the fact that many of the B1G teams may actually improve more then we willnext season, I think we will be lucky to see 8 wins, probably another year like this one even though the team may improve through the season.
I'm just glad we did not have to play OKST, LSU or Georgia. It would have been even uglier.
The coaching was poor! I'm disappointed that this game really was not even close. KSU dominated us. They were much more physical and looked a lot faster. This is actually kind of alarming.
Aaron Wellman - Strength and Conditioning coach
Can we give some second thoughts this off-season if we should keep this guy around? I am getting sick of almost every game where the opposing players constantly look bigger, stronger, and faster than our highly recruited players.
Now honestly, we have no idea what their workouts are like. But man, do we seem physically weaker than other good teams.
that's the problem. People complained about Barwis too, but we had guys like Mike Martin. These guys just don't know how to react during plays. They consistently hit the wrong gaps, overrun the ball carrier, and simply look horribly undercoached.
We had only one guy like Mike Martin. Him.
our defense was completely overmatched by their offense. It was OSU all over again. .. What was the final tally about 7 ypc today for them?
Are still freshmen and sophomores. Of course they're going to look smaller and slower compared to players who have been in college programs for multiple years.
I believe you're right. We get pushed around on the lines, where S&C matter most and are most easily observed. It isn't just the young kids. Kalis is young, yes, but his reputation was a mauler and he routinely gets crushed. Heitzman isn't young and he can't hold up at the point of attack. Miller is small, true, but wouldn't a better S&C coach have been able to improve his strength? And why do we need to rotate endlessly at LB? Are our LBs predisposed to tiring? It looks like Wellman isn't getting the job done.
I love our coaches in game adjustments..... Not!
That was a really funny joke...
It speaks volumes that the creative, out of nowhere, two point coversion play comes out down 19 with 1:15 to play instead of at the end of the OSU game.
"Give Al Borgess credit for trying" says the announcer.
where Rex Burkhead was the option QB and he optioned to a receiver for an easy TD (the famous GIF where Mattison was talking to Hoke and just shook his head and said "I dunno WTF that was"), and at that time I immediately thought "Nebraska could have run that play for an 80-yard TD, and they chose to burn it up on 2nd and goal from the 3." Same thing here. Where was that play in the 1st half when you ran the jet sweep and it got stuffed twice in a row? You choose to burn it up on a 2-pt conversion to get you within 17 with 1:15 to go in the 4th. Really?
Where the hell was that play in the biggest game of the year? Hoke and his idiot staff wait for BWW Bowl to bust out the good stuff after the game was over.
I don't mind it. It was clearly designed as a short-yardage goal-line type play. Quick action, short route, much lower chance of disaster. If you do that further back, it's just another tricky play (there were plenty) that may or may not work, with a guy in Gallon who cannot he trusted to throw it deep as a big play would require.
Al's weakness is not his ability to draw up unique, unexpected, one-time plays that gain yardage. He has always been able to do that. The problem is that the base offense often cannot produce consistently without using gimmicks.
It's the timing of the thing that I have a problem with. It was a great idea for a two point conversion and as a one off is probably unstoppable. So... why the hell didn't he use that against OSU to win the game?
Because the play wasn't in the playbook at the time.
Borges designs and installs new plays every week. It's part of his MO, and I think part of the reason why Michigan's base offense is mediocre. Those plays are often teased or totally unleashed in the first part of the game, as part of the "script" that the offense runs. In this case the conversion play was a counter off of plays run earlier in the game, plays developed specifically for this game.
If you closely watch the first couple of drives of most of Michigan's games, you will see a smart and varied gameplan, unusual looks, and new plays that seem to portend a lot of promise. Then, after the script is exhausted (usually by a couple of punts, since there is always a missed pass for a conversion or a stuffed run mixed in somewhere) the offense stops bringing out new stuff, and things bog down.
Borges is far from the only coach to do things this way, but it is more obvious here because the basic plays that are supposed to be a staple of the offense (you know, power and iso and inside zone and stuff like that) don't work at all.
Also, the actual playcall on the conversion against OSU was just fine. The problem is that they lined up to run the play before the TO, then ran the same thing after OSU had gotten a chance to see their look and adjust to it.
We have a true freshman QB and we hardly run the ball and instead run a bunch of gadget plays and throw the ball a million times? This team is a dumpster fire.
There's no hope anymore for this program. These past 6 years have broken my Michigan spirit in half. For the first time in my life, I've given up on this program. Fall of 2014 means nothing to me now.
Our interior line has been crap all year and we've struggled to run the ball. We've got a backup QB in because our starter is busted up.
FWIW I don't blame Borges for losing this one game, and I'm not particularly down on Mattison for giving up 30+ points to one of the better offenses in college ball.
That's not to say there isn't plenty to criticize about the first 12 games...
All have shit in their pants.
Staff is a joke
The fuck was that shit?
Hoke needs to be encouraged to make changes on his staff. Whether it be the coordinators, position coaches but something has to change. And they to get on the same page on the type of offense and defense they wanna run.
I am of the opposite opinion- nothing will change until Hoke is gone
And that won't change until Brandon is gone.
This game was Oregon 2007 all over again. In that game it became clear that Michigan's coaching staff was dated and predictable, and was toyed with by an innovative Oregon coaching staff. It had nothing to do with the players - we had tons of NFL talent on that squad. It was 100% prehistoric coaching. It was those games that assuredly made Martin think we needed a change to "get with the times." Well 6 years later and we are exactly where we were then - with a prehistoric, dated coaching staff that was completely outschemed and outcoached. Mighty, 5 loss K State didn't have to punt once until garbage time when they were lighting 1st and 2nd down on fire anyway just to milk clock.
Ironically, the scores ended up very similar between this and the Oregon game.
Wake me up in another 6 years.
Calling front desk now
The difference is that team ended the season beating an SEC team and Urbz in a bowl game. This team just got toyed with by a 7-5 Big 12 team. Just unreal.
Mr. Brandon - have fun with your coaching investment next year. We play away at MSU, ND and OSU with this intact, predictable staff.
Calling front desk now
Calling front desk now
That's it...off to bed for me
This is the front desk. I've got a wake up call for you.
Well, Bill Snyder is hardly a brand new, 21st Century, kind of person...
But not stuck in the past. They run a spread based system, no huddle for a good portion of the time, make play call adjustments at the LOS, run the QB, etc.
admittedly anecdotal just from watching the game.
His players executed, he looked into the game (as did the K State players), and "his" plays took advantage of Michigan's defense continuously, even when they were telegraphed based on which quarterback came in.
Impressive for someone to pursue their profession as long as he has.
Isn't Snyder credited with basically popularizing the single-back / wildcat formation? I thought he was the first one to use the extensively in the 90's en route to somehow making KState relevant.
Just offer Jimmy 8-9 million a year and start over.there is a lot of talent on the roster and Jimmy would instantly make them NC contenders.Never gonna be shit with these clowns,time for FatFuck Freddy Flintstone to go.
Can't really do this now. Just feel too bad for the seniors at this point. Gonna miss seeing a lot of them in the winged helmet.
Congrats to Coach Snyder for having your team prepared and hungry. Congrats to Hoke and staff for being hungry.
Hoke had a food poisoning issue on Friday. I told my wife it was because he ate 1 BWW wing for all 134 years of Michigan football.
Now is a good time to just sit in the darkness for awhile and listen to I am a Rock by Simon and Garfunkle or anything Elliot Smith.
Now is a good time to just sit in the darkness for awhile and listen to I am a Rock by Simon and Garfunkle or anything Elliot Smith.
I'm serious. What was that?
Next year is make or break. Hoke needs at least 9 wins with victories against OSU or MSU, otherwise he is fired and this "michigan man" bullshit will be officially dead. I don't care my coach has a southern accent or a New York Accent. I dont care if he is white, black, purple, orange. We just need to get the best coach regardless.
I support hiring a purple coach.
Somewhere Pat Fitzgerald's ears are burning.
What would it take to pry Brian Kelly away from nd?
The end of 2015 will be make or break for Hoke, and he better win at least 9 games in 2015. Next year we will be lucky to win 8 games. We lose 2 of our best OT, Gardner will take more punishment than ever next season. There is no magic wand to wave! Our interior like may improve but our tackles will be having lots of problems. Our defense looks years away from being good. I'm so sad, I may just cry myself to sleep. But win or lose I will always support the team.
Nine games in 2015? I think if Hoke is still aorund we will need to be in Indianapolis and probably will need to win the game. Five years is more than enough time for the resources this program has, which by the way, comes out of the pockets of working Jimmies, Joes, and Janes who pay the exhorbitant prices Brandon and the AD make people shell out.
Alabama quality football for Alabama level resources and support.
The equity of Michigan Football seems to rapidly be detoriating. Also this isn't directed at you, it is my frustration with the state of the program and I only disagree on what will be required in 2015.
I could see Michigan taking out either OSU or MSU at home in 2015 but not both. And I'm sure there will be 2 road losses in close games. But if the team is playing better, Hoke will get by with 9 wins in 2015. I think he needs a BCS bowl in 2016.
I think Hoke is a lot like LC, He will never win as many games as he should but should get the program back on solid footing and winning 9 to 10 games per season. Who knows, he may have a season where everything falls into place and win an NC? You have to go back to the 70s where Michigan only lost on average one game per regular season.You would need a top notch coach to do something like that again.
Hey Borges wherr was that 2 point play against osu? Asshole
until after the OSU game, as in "what else could we have done there?"
He can't hide anymore. His defense has become a goddamn joke.
Overplayed and overrated
And unfortunately it doesn't end this season. I have not seen anything this year or last that suggests this will get better next season. Aside from recruiting 4 stars that haven't lived up to their hype I don't think Hoke and his crew have done anything better than RR. Staring down a ridiculously difficult road schedule next year I don't see how Hoke survives. Mattison and Borges are stale and overrated. Time to clean house again, unfortunately.
Hoke can survive just fine. You forget he has a, "David Brandon get out of jail free" card.
Bowl prep: Apparently nonexistent.
Explanations: Likeliy can be boiled down to "Well..." and "Welll...." and "Welllllllll..." Maybe some incoherant shit about execution and effort...
And we have an AD who is so enamored with keeping a recruiting class intact at the expense of the bigger picture (See: the Brandon Blog's targeted entry towards Peppers), so we're probably looking at the same staff next year with a full show of public support.
Shut it down. The program is broken.
OT: Anyone know of a source to the post game presser?
"Congratulations to the UM seniors and thank you."
"We didn't execute."
"I need to do better."
There I just saved you some time.
And to rub salt on this wound of a season we gave up our all time winning percentage to Notre Dame.
Thank u thanks for ruining my day u couldn't keep ur mouth shut
I am ok with it because the more dinosaur artifacts that fall the more prone the program might be to actually getting into the 21st century. Holding onto all time wins and winning % and most alumni and 2nd best TV ratings blah blah are the main hallmarks of UM football nowadays. Rip those away 1 by 1 (save for the alumni) and there becomes a lot less to hang the hat on. When someone says OSU has won 10 of the last 12 you still have a lot of idiots who point to the all time record as if what happens in 1938 is relevant to the current program. It is nice for historical perspective but doesnt help one iota to get this program pushed into the modern era. Mediocre has been the standard bearer for 15 years, and aside from 1997 really you could now say 20 or so years.
Well it looks like Dave Brandon's biggest concern, which is leaving Michigan Football in better shape than he left it has now fallen along with Red Letter Games. They no longer have the all time winning percentage and how long before we lose consecutive sellouts at the Big House!
God, hopefully the sellout streak ends soon, that is literally the only thing that would get Brandon's attention.
chris weidman for OC
Nothing changes until Brandon apologizes to RichRod? This is Michigan Fergodsakes has come home to fully ROOST. What are all the former players saying about "their Michigan" coach now? Fing sad sad sad.
But rather, pride goes before the fall.
Our family has held season tickets since 1975 and I have bled blue for the last 38 of my 45 years. Just something about how the RR deal ended didn't sit right with me. The Michigan Man shit is over. Little Brother shit is over. Negative rushing yards Manball is over. The #1 jersey debacle is over. And give #98 back to the Harmon's, please. And what number is Jeremy Gallon again? FFFFFFFFF.
You just lost the winningest program title for now and the stadium record thing is on shaky ground going forward. The Emperor is buck fricken naked and EVERYONE knows it - only they aren't laughing, because deep down it saddens them to know it isn't such a big deal to beat Mighty Michigan anymore. Everybody's been doing it, and even poor teams were damn close to doing it. The shine ain't comin' back on the football brand, Dave, and the value is not worth the price of admission to me, and to a lot of people anymore. I listened to the entire game tonight because I love Michigan football, but I didn't want any more pathetic images burned into my brain.
I'm never mad at the young men on the field who bust their asses, including the guys on the practice squad who never get any recognition - but rather the coaches who have not prepared them to play above and beyond what they thought they were capable of. Enough with the lame excuses. Those seniors deserved better than this.
Continuous regression is eventual death. At some point the Titanic took on one more drop of the Atlantic Ocean than it could handle, and it went ass up and then sank. Thankfully, Michigan football isn't the Titanic - and nobody is going to die because of someone elses's arrogance. For me, I'm done pretending that if I just continue to throw my good money at the problem, it will somehow change. It won't. My personal solution is to stop supporting a greedy and self absorbed AD, and his decisions. I know of no other way to make my vote of disappointment any more clear. And F anyone who thinks I'm a fair weather fan.
Can we finally give some heat to Mattison? The defense has been piss poor for most of the year and was masked, rightfully so, by the even more piss poor offense. This program is in a downward spiral and needs a makeover asap. Time to bring in someone else. I dont think Harbaugh is a realistic option, so Im hoping it's Les Miles, but let's be honest, Hoke isnt going anywhere. :(
Ya think??? Mattisons defenses have regressed as much as the offense. This game proves to me how bad the BIG is. Wouldn't surprise me if they went 1-6 in bowl games
Why would you base the B1G Ten on U of M's performance? What were we 3-5 in the B1G Ten, 5th in the Legends Division. We already knew we were a bad B1G Ten team. I hope the B1G Ten redeams itself in the next 4 days.
Fuck the coaching staff FUCK ALL OF THEM Mattison is so fuckn overrated it blows my mind. Borges is a dumbass who can't develop shit the offense got worse and everytime we dreamed the oline turned a corner they didn't. Hoke is too passive he doesn't seem to have full control if the team. And the saddest part is we go 7-6 and noone gets fired???? WTF
TIme to say it:
Bye Borges. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
And Mattison gets a free pass?
Really? I would say that from the South Carolina game onward (14 games ago), it's been a brutal stretch for the D.
If the coaching staff gets outcoached in next year's season opener versus App State and we lose (God forbid), is that one of those "perfect storm" moments where not only does Hoke feel the fire from underneath his seat, but even Dave Brandon starts to feel the heat?
Dave Brandon has not done Hoke any favors the past few years. Set us up for complete and utter disaster to start the season vs. Alabama and very well could be doing the same thing against App. State.
This is just all kinds of bad right now. :/
App St. is a completely different team than what they were in 2007. Their coach was fired (for some reason, really not sure why). They won 4 games this year. They were something like the 2 time defending National Champions of FCS at the time of The Horror.
Michigan almost lost to Akron and UConn this year, and in 2006 was coming off one of the best regular seasons in school history.
I know we should roll them next year, but still. Different teams also applies to Michigan. More less, different coaches.
Thank you for settling my nerves on that thought process though. :/
Don't sell this staff short. They have the ability to play down to their competition like no other. Or maybe they just suck.
App State went 4-8 this year in the FCS--not the same outfit that was winning national championships 5-7 years ago. If Michigan does lose that game, a 3-9 type of season becomes realistic. But, that likely is not happening.
Who do I have questions about? Almost everyone. I'd say that Funk and Borges top that list, closely followed by Mallory. I think they need to rethink coaching the D-line as it was not explosive at all this year, which maybe is a Wellman thing, but who knows.
I know that G-Matt preaches not giving up the big play, but they gave up big plays and short plays for much of the season. He was fine this year, probably above average. However, he gets paid to be great, so I hope that he revisists some fo the passive structure of his defense this off-season. All in all, the worst season since RR, which was recent, but before RR, I'd never seen a team this bad.
has really caused the DLINE to regress. Look at how OU DLINE improved through the season. They need a good DL coach and a good QB coach.
I'll still be wiling to give Hoke some slack next season because of the youth and depth issues. But by 2015 he will not have these excuses any longer.
Get rid of he special teams/TE coach and shift those duties and hire a QB coach
Yeesh. Most teams don't have a designated QB coach; the OC is often the QB coach. That includes Auburn, which is in the national championship game.
Furthermore, Gardner improved throughout the year and had the #2 passing season in Michigan history, and that wasn't because of a hurry-up offense, which is why a lot of passing records are being broken these days. Furtherfurthermore, Shane Morris played fairly well last night as a true freshman in his first extended time, so I'm not sure what you expect a designated quarterback coach to do. Turn a freshman into a Heisman contender in his first start?
Hoke has to admit that however they prepare for games, it simply doesn't work. I don't know how they practice. If Hoke doesn't realize that his and his assistants coaching methods are ineffective, he should be fired.
He gets one more year to learn from his mistakes, adjust, and improve their game preparation
they prepare by giving a lot of reps to players who won't play.
Brandon better write another open letter.
Maybe rotating the entire defense every gd play isn't so smart. Because none of them have any idea what they're doing.
Get your best guys out there and let them settle in and play.
I went to the GLI today, rooting for Michigan and Michigan Tech (dad's an alum). Not only did I see no scoring by either team I was rooting for, but we just decided to drive home and pass on watching Michigan/Kansas State downtown.
Turns out, we missed indirectly seeing a UFC fighter horrifically break his leg, in a bar's HD display.
That was a good call to just go home, and it was the best playcall of the night.
@JeremyYankey: Congrats @umichfootball on your fourth 6 loss season in the past six years!
Where's the toughness?
Where's the leadership?
Where's the character?
OMG...this team needs some magical effin things to happen or we are in trouble.
They regressed massively after ND and played well against OSU because it was OSU. This whole staff better take a long look in the mirror because they were terrible this eason.
Most of the Offensive staff need to go and the defense isn't very good either. Maybe Mattison isn't the answer. There isn't one facet of this team that was good this season. Brandon better have some hard conversations with Hoke about this staff.
Gardner was good and I think Morris showed flashed too. Quarterbacks are important but they can't do it alone. If a guy is in your face 90% of the time you're not going to look that good. The OLine needs to be massively better next year.
Also need to figure out if we have the best possible staff.
I look forward to David Brandon's next blog post explaining the historical reasons why this result is not Hoke and his asst coaches' fault.
I didn't need this game to confirm it, but based on past threads, quite a few people did, so perhaps the game result and the scads of empty seats clarified things -- if Hoke doesn't win at least 9 games next year (at a minimum), that's it.
So no need to worry about 2015 recruiting. It's all in for 2014.
Big Boy Football™. It's on the way. Pay no attention to the highest paid coaching staff in America behind the curtain.
I was actually hoping to upload this game on YouTube fuck that
I know that I mean jack shit to them, but this coaching staff has to win me back with results. The heroics of Denard and the '11 seniors taped over a glaring lack of ability by this staff's ability to coach kids up and scheme successfully. My wildly negative reaction the first week of 2011 feels awful prescient now
Well it is the end of the season and Hoke's 3rd year. Let's review his status based on Dave Brandon's Criteria for Success:
Penn State (0-1)
OSU (1-2) (0-2 vs. Urban)
Bowl Games (1-2)
Dave Brandon has indicated that Hoke will be back for next year, so what happens next year.
That would make the red letter records:
Penn State (0-2)
OSU (1-3, 0-3 vs. Urban)
I don't care what his overall record is, this would be considered failure. Dave fired RR with a winning overall record his 3rd year, this is year 4. If Hoke delivers that level of performance, it's time to pull the plug. If Dave won't fire him as long as he is the AD, then maybe a change in the entire department is necessary.
So we have already lost those 4 games next year - shit, how did I miss that?
I am predicting losses in each of those games. They are away and Hoke has a not been able to beat a team with a winning record on the road since coming to Michigan. Maybe we beat PSU if BOB goes to the pros.
Probably not reasonable to judge a coaching staff based on your predictions.
The outcome of the predictions will determine how the coaching staff is judged. Just an educated guess at this point based on the teams inability to win on the road against any team with a winning record under Hoke. With that in mind, I certainly don't anticipate a sudden reversal where they will all of a sudden be able to not only beat a team with a winning record on the road, but will beat the best teams in the Big Ten on the road. Time will tell.
I have hope for a different future, but just not confident in it at this point.
RR did not have a winning overall record after 3 yrs at UM.
Winning Record in his 3rd year. Overall record trending up,
His point is that RR had a winning record in his third year.
Not mentioned is that RR improved every year after inheriting a smoking crater while the current coach has gotten worse every year after inheriting a resurrected team.
I'm doubting hoke big time, but why does everyone keep saying RR's teams improved? Didn't we lose his last 3 games by 20 or more points in each? How is that progressing?
For the most overpaid staff in the coaching ranks?
As much as he claims he does, then he should do the honorable thing and step down. He's in over his head at this level. He should recognize it and take the pressure off DB to fire him. Brady is a really nice man but he's just a MAC coach, nothing more.
MSU, OSU, Wisconsin, and even PSU with all their troubles are better programs and have a brighter future than Michigan who will start next season unranked.
He still wants to be a DLine coach. Which is the problem. He needs to be the Head Coach. Seems like he was avoiding the offensive side and trusting Borges and all.
in over his head too? Maybe it's too many freshmen and sophomores on the field who are over their heads.
Do tell? I didn't see many freshman and sophomores on the field getting burned tonight (Ramon Taylor, Desmond Morgan, etc.).
Saw gedeon in for a few third and longs which were converted iirc
Every coaching staff has to deal with underclassmen at critical positions.
Now that this season is over, I can start being optimistic about next year! I try not to worry about things out of my control (like coaches). I love the school and the team. At this point in my life, that is not going to change and I don't want it to.
I'm looking at my PSD right now and I will hand over the money and continue to cheer the team. I expect the coaches and players to keep working and improving (like I do of myself and the people who work for me in real life). I don't know what the record will be next year but I know I will be at/watch every game (and be happy about it).
That's has Michigan on the brink of mediocrity.
I'm way more powerful than I knew. I'm confident that my love for the school and team has nothing to do with mediocrity on the football team. It's ok with me if you feel different about the cause of the status of the program. I'd appreciate it if you were ok with me having a different opinion than you.
It would help if you can explain how unconditional love for a school and team has the program on the brink of mediocrity. I was doing the exact same thing in 1997 so do I get some credit for the undefeated season?
On the brink? I'd say we are firmly entrenched at this point.
David Brandon, loves people like you.
Hew doesn't love people like me.
Why is about David Brandon? It is about me and my interests and my family's interests. If the day comes when my interests change, then I won't pay for tickets. It has nothing to do with Brandon for me. If the cost gets to where I can't afford, then I will stop. It's just an individual decision. I can afford it and I love the school and team.
It would be great if the team was more successful but my happiness is not directly affected by the team's record.
Since I have been living out of state. I'm looking forward to purchasing season tickets around 2028 when I retire. I hope we have a good team by then or I could just enjoy the atmosphere of a college game, where I went to school at, even if the team is not the best. I have a friend who just retired last summer and got season tickets to his alma mater is Purdue. But he's use to not having a good football team.
Right now I feel like Anderson Silva's leg.
Outstanding coaching. From Kansas State.
Honest question, do you guys believe Jackson will retire sometime before next season?
At least with RichRod we were getting better with less talent, now we're getting worse with more talent.
As we watch Arizona become a solid program, with a win over Oregon.
And the week after, they lost by 37 to ASU. Sample sizes and all.
Or you can chalk it up to RR not understanding who your rivals are...
Sorry, but the records just don't bear that out:
2010: 7-5 (with an ugly bowl loss, admittedly)
That's a four-game swing in two years. You can say it's damning with faint praise given how awful the '08 squad was, but I don't see how you can say that the team wasn't getting better.
You can say the team wasn't getting better because it finished the Rich Rod era with losses of 20, 30 and 38 points.
Basically, RichRod's teams showed improvement in September, and then nosedived after that. This year's team was a lot like a Rich Rod team, which is certainly worrisome.
They were only getting better in that they were so historically bad to begin with. No one who saw the last three Rodriguez games (Wisconsin, OSU, Miss St) could have honestly believed that it was going to work out.
Philisophically, going with someone innovative and outside of the UM family is fine and probably a good idea, but it wasn't happening with Rodriguez.
I know of a coach who got fired after getting killed in their bowl game, finishing the year with 7 wins...
Me too. The guy was 15-22 over three seasons.
Another guy was 26-13.
I look more at how things are trending rather than a compilation of data. Much the same way you look for trends in SPC data to indicate there is a problem that needs to be fixed before it is out of control. The record was improving under RR and that was with a total change in the style of play. He was never allowed to see it through because he ended his seasons with blowouts, much like the bowl game last night. The fact of the matter is that Hoke continued the upward trend his first year with mostly RR players.
Since his first year, it is starting to trend the opposite direction. We all keep waiting for a sign that things can be corrected and I would even argue getting a middle of the pack Big12 team was a great opportunity to end on a positive note. My fear getting KSU was that it had a no win type of appeal, with a loss doing even more damage by losing to a low profile Big12 team. The team had 15 extra practices to prepare for one opponent and the effort last night was beyond disappointing.
This is a critical juncture for the people in charge in Ann Arbor. If they do not recognize the trend and take countermeasures, then this thing will get out of control causing a tailspin that will be difficult to correct. Next year is the critical year.
Gardiner coming back is a big plus. He is a playmaker and another year should help to reduce some of the mistakes. He accounted for 75% of Michigans offense this year, had 2900+ yards passing, 21 throwing TDs and 11 rushing TDs. The one thing I will say is that you have to let Devin be Devin. Don't try to dial him back too much. Even though he was frustrating, when he was allowed to do his thing the team typically won. When he reduced turnovers against MSU, Iowa, and Nebraska they wound up losing those games because his individual playmaking ability was tempered. Just take the good with the bad and go with it. He beat ND, Indiana, and damn near OSU based on his playmaking ability.
Data is great and all, but context is important, too. Unfortunately, the offensive line was doomed to fail because of the players available, and Michigan was still in better shape this year than any year of the Rodriguez regime.
After Mallett, Boren and Arrington decided to leave, RR's first team was doomed.
Hoke inherited a team (and schedule) that should have seen M undefeated in the regular season. Instead the coaches ran Denard under center against Iowa and tried to prove their way was the way by throwing against MSU in a wind storm. That was RR's team. It would have been the first with a second year starter at QB. Hoke and his coaches have been a disaster in managing the transition to their desired style.
RR oversaw improvement in the team every year. Hoke has given us regression.
Rodriguez would not have been retained after 2008 (or 2009, when Brandon took over), and Hoke will be fired by no later than January 8th. Neither of these things happened nor will happen. Therefore, invalid.
I hear the players don't like him either.
Lewan called him the best he's had.
that is so overpaid. I believe Hoke is 4th and both Borges and Mattison are in the top ten and we get 7-6 with no evidence of any improvement over the 2013 season. At least with RR things seemed to be trending up until the cowbell bowl. We seem to be headed in the opposite direction with this staff.
When I see plays where Desmond Morgan is suppose to get out to the slot WR as we send a DB on a blitz and the announcer says Morgan didn't get his job done I get PO'd. Morgan doesn't have the ability to get there so he is put in a position to fail by the DC's call. Then we get to hear in the presser how the team didn"t execute. Tired of the BS. On the bright side, tickets should be pretty cheap next year.
Remember 2005 being the year of infinite pain? The endless injured players and games that came down to the final drive every week ended with 5 losses. It was the weirdest feeling in the world to see the team with 5 losses when 37 of the previous 38 seasons was when 8-4 was the worst case scenario at Michigan.
8-4 seasons were like the anti-Christ to us. Gary Moeller couldn't handle the frustration of back-to-back 8-4 seasons and it played a major part in his unfortunate exit. Lloyd Carr started his first 2 seasons with 8-4 records. He was so stressed from that that he gained weight and had to run the steps at the big house to take it off.
Now we're at the point where we have had 5 or more losses in 5 of the last 6 seasons. Michigan hasn't been Michigan in a long time and it not only pisses me off, it breaks my heart.
Hoke, Borges, and Mattison running stairs...
If Al gets fired, his last playcall at Michigan will be a successful 2-pt conversion. This just upsets me;
when Greg was DC in mid '90's, I hated how our D was bend but don't break and then ND stole him from us and Herrmann had us play aggressive in '97, at least that year, I miss that. I want aggressive D back, not this shit we're getting.
Also, Borges, you suck, playcalling is so incoherent, Shane looked good and deserved a better game plan.
Hoke, you are clueless and too nonchalant and I hate your elusive responses, you suck buddy.
I would kill for Mattison's defenses from the mid-90's. Second in the Big Ten both times, holding top 5 Colorado to 13 points, #2 OSU to three field goals, Alabama to 10 points. Big Ten champion Northwestern to 19 and 17 points.
Those defenses kept us in every game. Not the case the last few years.
Also important: The key guys in the '97 defense were all guys that Mattison had coached. He was good at developing players back then, at least.
He is correct though about the 97 defense and Hermann. Mattison did play a bend but don't break style, which was maddening. Those players he recruited were studs, but Hermann took them to another level. They were very aggressive and I would say the best defense that I have ever seen at Michigan. It was a style that you see with all of the National Championship level defenses.
After the 97 season Hermann started to get conservative, which I believe ultimately cost him his job. If you have an attacking defense, you need to play that way all the time the MSU does. It is a mindset that has to be there on every play. You force turnovers with aggression. Occasionally you get burned, but you can live with that because you are creating opportunities with good field position and turnovers for your offense.
have no idea how to make in-game adjustments. They can't adjust to what the opposition does and take advantage of a situation. Mattison seemed good at it his first season, but has gotten worse the last two years. Borges just seems lost. It may be execution also, but that still comes back to coaching. The kids aren't prepared to play and don't learn from their mistakes.
It's very sad to see what Michigan football has become. This program is a middle of the B1G program and beginning next year with the new division splits...Holy Shit this program is in trouble. Michigan will be at best, third in the division when the season starts and probaly worse than that by year's end. I think after next year the program starts all over again and it'll be five years before Michigan truly COMPETES for the B1G championship.
We have become MSU and they are us. This is sad.
This next month or so is critical to the program's future, meaning a possible staff shakeup and maintaining the recruiting class. We shall see...
It is embarrassing to watch my team give these games away.
Nov. 27, 2013
University of Michigan director of athletics Dave Brandon will regularly offer his view on a variety of topics related to U-M and intercollegiate sports. All his posts, along with links to related content, will be available on his page, mgoblue.com/brandon, and he is also on Twitter at @DaveBrandonAD.
Brady Hoke is our coach and will be leading our football program well into the future. There is no question about it. Brady has done a great job rebuilding the program and reshaping the culture to the level it was under coaches Bo Schembechler, Gary Moeller and Lloyd Carr. Anyone making efforts to stir up a coaching controversy at Michigan is ill-informed and is likely promoting a personal agenda that is not in the best interest of Michigan Football.
We don't make excuses at Michigan when we fail to reach our goals, and we never will. We recognize areas we need to address and improve -- and we will. We also know how to hold people accountable for the roles and responsibilities they have as part of the privilege for being a part of Michigan Football -- and we will. However, it is valuable to occasionally step back from the disappointment and frustration that occurs when things don't go as well as expected and consider a few facts that may help put things into proper perspective.
Is our program where we want to be? No. We want to consistently compete for championships. That is the expectation at Michigan and that has been Brady's stated expectation from day one. When we don't meet those expectations there's disappointment -- and that starts with Brady, the coaches, players and everyone else that represents our football program. If you saw how hard everyone inside Schembechler Hall works every day, you would understand why they are disappointed. They pour their lives into developing these young people to prepare them to compete at the highest level and consistently win.
Many don't remember that Alabama finished fourth in its division during Nick Saban's fourth year with the Crimson Tide. At present, Alabama seems to be doing pretty well!! Stanford had 4-8, 5-7 and 8-5 records under Jim Harbaugh before reaching its current string of consecutive BCS appearances. This shows that it takes time for the right leader to build a consistent winner. We have the right leader, and despite the fact we have lost three very close games (and WE ARE ALL feeling the pain that comes from it!) the consistency will come. There have been speed bumps along the way and unforeseen obstacles that have hindered our progress this season, but the resiliency of this team has been remarkable.
Our coaches are recruiting nationally from New Jersey to California, from Michigan to Florida, and continue to bring in the type of young men that can compete on the field and in the classroom at the University of Michigan. The depth that this program needs to be a consistent winner is coming, but it doesn't happen overnight or in one or two recruiting classes. It takes time and probably a little more time than we all anticipated. However, the only threat to our continued success in recruiting is the same old, tired tactic being used by some who wish to see us fail -- to try and scare young recruits into believing that our coach "is on the hot seat" -- which simply isn't true. In fact, this is the same guy that was Big Ten and national coach of the year two seasons ago.
Brady inherited a team during his first season that had many juniors and seniors who played key roles in previous years. The senior class was recruited by Coach Carr and had some terrific talent that had simply been underperforming. We only had one freshman crack the depth chart on the offensive and defensive lines during that Sugar Bowl winning season. Right now, this year's team is counting on 11 freshmen or redshirt freshmen in the trenches. Not to make excuses, but to point out the obvious, this shows how much we are investing in young talent that will make huge contributions to our future success.
I'm really proud of how the players have bought into the new direction. Our coaches are changing schemes, and that requires a different recruiting philosophy and asking current student-athletes to adapt to a different style than previous years. The transformation and improvement of our defense under the leadership of coach Greg Mattison has been outstanding. Our coaches have worked hard to blend and develop schemes that bridge the gap between what was previously done and what they ultimately hope to run on both sides of the ball.
I have seen firsthand what Brady and his coaching staff are doing to make this program better. It takes time and sometimes patience by all of us before we can build the consistent winner that meets our expectations. I can assure you that our student-athletes are working hard every day to get better on the field, in the classroom and in the community. That hasn't changed at any point during the season; this group is fighting through obstacles. I know and see the drive that Brady, his coaches and players have to win -- and win for Michigan.
We recognize what makes Michigan so special is the passion and enthusiasm that our fans have for the team. However, those individuals who are spreading inaccurate rumors and saying inappropriate things about our coaches, players and recruits don't know what's happening inside Schembechler Hall or on that practice field. They are only trying to hurt the program and the progress our coaches and student-athletes are fighting to make on Saturdays. Sometimes that progress takes a little bit longer than we all like, but we know the long-term success that it's going to bring.
The 2013 season is far from over! We have two more big games to play, and we should all be looking forward to the opportunities they represent for our program. It is important and exciting for our young team to have the opportunity to experience an additional 15 practices, heal up some injuries, and compete in a bowl game at this stage in their career. And, for our seniors, these last two opportunities to play for Michigan are very special.
I know that Brady Hoke will finish his career at Michigan as one of the most successful coaches in our program's storied history. And, thanks to our many loyal fans and supporters who will be along for the ride because they care so much about Michigan Football for all of the right reasons!
Happy Thanksgiving and Go Blue!
Do the right thing and waive the PSD for season ticket holders.
And people wonder why I gave mine up. Sorry-I grew tired of financially supporting this shit storm after PSU and nothing they've done on the field has made me second guess that decision.
Did you give your season tickets up? Huh. I had no idea.
Where the hell was the awesome two point conversion play call against osu.....have fun sitting on a couch and getting fatter next year Borges
So per twitter, Borges declined any comment as he came out of the locker room.
He's a joke.
I've seen that before.
Lame duck coordinator, ducking the last public opportunity to atone for his sins.
I don't think you can pin tonight's game on Borges. You can blame him for other games but tonight his hands were tied.
Mattison's the guy who has some 'splaining to do tonight.
30 points (really 24) against a decent offense - that's not that bad. He had a bad first half but that second half was great.
Borges? SIX POINTS and 150 yards (outside of garbage time)? He has a LOT of explaning to do - especially since his offenses make me wish Debord was back.
I'm sorry, but were you expecting an offensive explosion with the current state of the offensive line and a true freshman backup quarterback? Exactly what is he supposed to "explain" that a halfway intelligent observer can't figure out at this point?
I think it could have been 49 points against our D. Snyder just went more conservative to run down the clock in the second half. The 70th rated offense in the country is not a decent offense.
This is pretty clear evidence of the power of preconceived notions.
Much of the fanbase here went into the game expecting Borges to call a bad game and Mattison to call a good one. People like yourself are now trying to fit the evidence into your preconceived expectations.
Our offense was able to move the ball much of the night. Given that we had a sieve for an interior OL, a brand-new QB and WRs with a penchant for dropping key passes, I didn't think it did that badly. Its biggest problems were that it just plain didn't get the ball that much (thanks to our D completely sucking on 3rd downs) and when it did get the ball, it was always in poor field position.
There are no extenuating circumstances for the D. It let KSU convert 100% of 3rd downs in the first half and possess the ball 35 minutes, and never once gave our offense the ball in good field position. Every single KSU possession entered our territory, except for the kneeldown at the end of the first half.
They forced one punt in the second half. KSU continued to move the ball up and down the field in the second half but killed themselves with some turnovers. I would have felt better if we had stopped them from moving the ball, but that just wasn't the case.
I don't see Coach Hoke winning anything at Michigan. He will coach 1 more pitiful year and then be let go quietly after yet another loss to OSU. I wish there was even a glimmer of hope, but this bowl game proved that this staff is completely inept at developing players. A whole month to prepare for one team, and they play out of position with poor technique, again. The whole staff deserves to be fired.
The seniors deserved better than this. That is all.
Or maybe they didn't which is why they got what they got tonight. I love this team but maybe the reason they got outplayed in every aspect is because the senior leadership wasn't there because of it being the b dubs bowl. Maybe the seniors deserved it after twisting MSU players necks and supposedly jacking dudes in the face after the OSU game. Maybe the reasons Gibbons didn't show up is because it is what they deserved.
I don't want to lump them all in one basket. I find that hard to believe with the likes of Gallon and Dileo and etc. but it's definitely plausible.
Gallon, Dileo, Schofield, and the Gordon's at the very least shouldn't be lumped into that pile.
When's the spring game??
I guarante we dont have 100, 000 next year for App State. At least we shouldn't . Brandon won't do jack shit until he sees empty seats and les donations.
I assure you there will be 105,000 plus easily.
It seems his coaching style is to let the seniors lead the team, this years class has some great seniors. But, I hope once he gets some of his recruits as seniors there will be more fire. Plus I would not mind seeing hoke coach a player up on the sideline, rather than pat them on the head after they make a mistake..
Doug Karsch reported that sources indicated to him that "Cam Gordon went nuclear" at halftime.
Not saying RR should have stayed, but it looks like things are the same or worse three years in.
I think Hoke is in over his head, his coordinators are only good when they have superior talent, which they don't. This whole staff is guessing and grasping at straws. The program is in real trouble and will be third or fourth in their own division next season.
There is very little hope as things stand.
Well yeah but that could easily be attributed to RRs disastrous attrition filled recruiting classes.
We lost big, got outcoached and outplayed, that is obvious. What hurts the most thought is that we got outclassed. I cringed watching our players talk so much garbage when they were getting beaten so bad. Wow, Michigan Football was a joke tonight.
So sad and so upset.
Fire Jackson and Borges, combine both coaching postions and hire Denard. Having him teach his vision to these skill guys with our line would be great to have. Plus it's not like the Jags are even using him, they don't deserve him.
I just don't even know anymore man. This comment is fucked on so many levels...
The biggest problem with this team wasn't Borges, or the offensive line, or the offense at all. The defense let this team down all season. If the defense stands up at the end of the Penn St and Nebraska games, we win both. If the defense shows up against Ohio, we win that one too. The Copper Bowl was lost in the first quarter, when the defense couldn't get stops. I won't go as far as to say the problem is Mattison. Could be youth, could be talent, could be heart. With a more reliable defense, this team is at least 9-3 with a shot in a better bowl game.
saying the same thing for weeks. And in the pregame tonight Mattison said it too. The offense at least had a few games they looked explosive.
My fear is that Mattison returned to college ball to coast into retirement. My hope is that the team is just young and close to turning the corner.
I was initially really happy with the Mattison hire, but I really just can't take watching losing football that implements a bend but don't break philosophy. I consider it lazy, losing football. That style is good for the 8-4 and 9-3 seasons, but is not championship caliber football. Don't tell me you need 4 and 5 star dbs to be aggressive with blitzes, because somehow MSU has been able to have an aggressive defense with lesser stars.
A vast majority of the National Championship Teams have steller defenses that blitz and are aggressive in coverage. Look at the attacking style of Alabama, Auburn (when they crushed Oregon), OSU (vs. Miami), etc. You don't see teams that play off the ball winning championships. Even MSU figured it out with lesser talent and developed them into the style they wanted and won against a far more talented OSU team.
Maybe Mattison is a dinosaur? Bend but don't break burns clock and keeps the score low, but doesn't win championships. Aggressive defenses cause turnovers and make their breaks. They don't hope the other team makes a mistake. They force the issue.
Pretty sure Auburn won by 3 and only because everyone got confused on the Dyer "Oh he is down..-- wait he's not down?!?!?" play.
The D did not have a great year but really? If you were told you had to fire the offensive or defensive staff but could not fire both which would you choose? In order for your argument to work you have the fire the defensive staff. Would you really do that and keep Borges?
The defense sucked all season. They were RR bad in the last two games. Just cuz he was at the Ravens doesan't make him great. The evidence of the regression of the defense says he is as bad as Borges if not worse.
Not one coach on this staff is doing a good job. It might be time for a true NON-MIchigan coach. Someone who knows football and doesn't care about traditions and history that DON'T MATTER WHEN YOU DON'T WIN!!!
"The defense sucked all season. They were RR bad in the last two games."
Actually, Michigan is #41 in total defense nationally.
Additionally, Ohio State had a season scoring average of 48 points (we held them to 42). Kansas State had scored 35, 41, 49, 33, 31, and 31 points in their six games leading up to the bowl game (we allowed 31). Those aren't great performances, but they're not all-time terrible like Rodriguez's, either.
The fact that we held KSU to 31 is all smoke and mirrors. They punted once the entire game. What was the third down conversion rate, it must have been incredible. The Michigan Defense failed in every big situation throughout the year:
Indiana - The defense never put up any real resistence the entire game. If it wasn't for a record setting output by the offense that game is a loss.
PSU - 10 point lead in the 4th Qtr with epic collapse at the end of regulation.
MSU - Tight game in the first half. Then they give up a TD drive with less than 2 minutes left before the half with MSU getting the ball to start the 2nd half. At the start of the 2nd half when you needed a stop to keep it close, MSU rolled down the field for a FG. A 10 point lead before UM got the ball back on offense pretty much sealed the deal.
Iowa - 21-7 halftime lead only to give it all back and blow the game in the second half.
Nebraska - The Michigan offense was bad but managed to go ahead late in the game. Michigan defense collapsed and let Nebraska go right down the field.
OSU - Defense gives up tying score before the half then lets OSU build a 14 point lead. Michigan tied the game late and OSU went right down the field for the go ahead score before we get another late touchdown. The defense virtually never stopped OSU. Only giving up 42 points to OSU was a product of our offense having success against them and burning a lot of clock and limiting possessions by OSU.
Making a comment that Michigan did its job by holding OSU to 42 is just plain silly. Any decent offense that UM faced this year ripped them apart on the field. The KSU game is not close if not for some turnovers by KSU in the second half.
Defensive stats are as much about the offensive philosophy as the defensive philosophy. If you play ball control and burn clock, there is less opportunity for the opposing team to score. That really has little to do with the defenses ability to stop you, but makes the stats look better. Also a bend but don't break defense works the same. It bleeds clock and keeps the score in check, but does nothing to win games (death by a 1000 cuts). The rankings really mean nothing. The only stats that matter are wins and losses and whether or not you stopped a team at crucial points in a game.
You're putting words in my mouth. The previous poster said that the defense sucked all season. That is, in fact, not true. You can try to calibrate for pace of the game, score, etc., but you would also have to do that for every other team you're comparing them to, every other season you're comparing them to, etc. It was not my statement that Michigan's defense did a great job. I said they didn't suck.
Why don't you just shut the fuck up
Because I don't want to.
So if you have something like that to say here's what you do:
first you write it down on a piece of paper, and you go out into the lobby, and you go home and kill yourself
I just want to thank you for consistently being a knowlegeable, fact-based voice-of-reason. I can barely make it through the echo chamber of vitriol that most of these threads are right now, and posters like you are one of the reasons I'm still here.
It's actually misleading. Giving the overall statistics for the defense doesn't really tell the whole story as I indicated. If you want to discuss stats that matter, the discussion is around the defensive performance when the game was on the line. The defense failed this year. Conservative defenses can appear to be better statistically then they actually were on the field.
I have also seen posts arguing about Green being better than Smith, but when the data was presented on YPC, Smith's longest run was removed, but Green's was not. That is manipulating the data to fit your narrative, not actually looking at the reality of the situation.
I believe in stats, but you always need to look at the big picture, not just a narrow interpretation. You have to look at how those performances impacted the outcome of the games.
Speaking of misrepresentation...
The discussion you're talking about was specifically about De'Veon Smith and his breaking of tackles. I said something to the effect of "Other than his 38-yard run against Ohio State, I haven't seen him break many tackles." You just added in the part about the comparison to Green, and voila, you were arguing against yourself.
Well, thanks. Considering you have 58 points in over two years here, I'll take it as a compliment that you came out of lurker mode to say that.
Special teams have generally been pretty meh under Hoke. Tonight they were a liability. Even this young Michigan team should be able to outclass a team like KSU on special teams by virtue of being deeper...No need to comment on the defense...I think you'd have a hard time pinning this loss on Borges as far as playcalling given what he had to work with. Michigan wasn't going to win without the type of run blocking we saw against OSU, and it wasn't there.
I personally thought Borges should have been fired after the Ohio State game last year, and I've been a huge proponent of firing him ever since. However, this season it has become clear that the entire team is regressing and this lands squarely on Hoke. He is not a good D1 coach, and this entire staff needs to be blown up.