Due to the nature of things, this will go up a little early - this is your thread to discuss and evaluate Michigan's performance on offense and the offensive playcalling.
well that's just, like, your opinion, man
my thoughts exactly.
You dumb ass
Cowardball. They deserve it.
Lloyd Ball. Fire Borges!
But the quarterback play demands that kind of play calling
Devin has been awesome this half. Why pump the brakes?
Devin has to make better decisions. Borges has.. AHH. Whatever man. We are what we are: mediocre.
LSA, can you go ahead and ban all the people who actually believe in jinxes?
Either they are 6 years old and therefore shouldn't be posting, or they are hopelessly stupid with no potential for meaningful contribution.
Jesus. O-line is shit, so the running game is complete shit. But still not convinced that Fitz or Green could move the ball behind any O-line in the country. Idk, fuck everything.
End of discussion.
yeah it demands conservative calls to an extent....but on that drive prior to wiles final punt when near FG range why run 3 times when its guaranteed loss?? why not run gardner draw or bootleg on 2nd or 3rd down instead of touissant for a loss? just a thought. hes only the best athlete on the field by far. given 1-2 chances, the odds of him gaining even 5-7 yards are so much higher than touissant getting jack. aside from 1-2 drives, the calls by borges have been both terrible and baffling, take your pick. this is not san diego st, its a tad closer to auburn al
Borges learned nothing in OT1, it seems.
Seasons 2 and 3?
if we could get a competent O line coach
Freakin A .....We will lose
we have been Waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy to conservative in OT
Worse than 4ot against indiana
We have no chance to pick up 3 and a foot. Unbelievably bad.
After Lewan got hurt, our O-line was down to a backup LT, 3rd string LG (Burzynski was in for Bryant), C making his 2nd start at center, RS Frosh at RG, backup RS frosh at RT, and yet, Gardner gained over 100 yards rushing, and yet, Borges completely went away from what was working. Fire Borges.
Does anyone know if Ann Arbor torch and pitchfork has a mobile app
Too conservative, yes, but this loss is all on the delay penalty. Runs make sense in decent field goal range; the penalty pushed us out.
This was a choke. One of the worst that I've ever seen. Big worries about the coaching staff now.
I am with you.
From the conservative play calling with Fitz in OT, who could not gain yards all game (why not run Devin in those plays?) to the lack of sitautional awareness by our coaching staff on the delay of games (if Devin is too unaware to call TO that is what the HEAD COACH does) it is frustrating as hell. The " I dont need to wear a headset" is lame as hell, and does not allow Hoke to overrule Borges on any play call nor have someone in the press box scream into his headset WE ARE DOWN TO 5 SECONDS on the play clock. Its a joke. Why not wear your f****** HEADSET IN OT AT LEAST?
I thought Hoke was more aggressive than Carr but he is not. PSU went for it on 4th and inches in OT - win or lose. Balls. No misdirection run plays, no bootlegs, no reverses, no nothing because Borges is content whatever he does Hoke will hold onto him for another half decade.
Come on, Hoke has gone for it on 4th down lots of times, a lot more than Carr ever did. Yeah, he did play for the FG a few times today but his kicker normally is money. The odds of us missing three GW FGs were infinitesimal.
That was nothing short of gutless playcalling from Borgess from the last three minutes of regulation, going forward. This offense got what it deserved.
and his g-d lizard brain.
On the road, go for TDs, not fucking FGs. What a puntosaurus way to lose. Fire Borges.
Please lock board until Monday
Worst playcalling I've ever seen in the overtimes. I'm not exaggerating either. I'm not sure I've ever seen worse. We were gifted 2 possessions and we shit just shit them away. Fuck you borges and fuck you LSA for making this thread.
Yep. The only call that wasn't made out of total spineless fear, was the little out to Gallon for the ghost first down. They were daring us to do anything but run between the tackles. Like we were a high school team without a throwing QB. It was embarassing stuff for a once proud program like U-M. Serious shame today.
End of game management was horrendous. Delay of game, then run loss puts us out of FG range, then punt (ok, fine), can't prevent touchback, 2 plays for 70 yards, burn your last TO after a stoppage for review, don't have a TO so have to kick from 52 on 3rd down, miss.
Even before all the bullshit in OT, we deserved to lose right there.
Had to close them out in regulation and they marched right down the field.
we would have run up the middle for a two-yard loss, and the kick would have been from 54 instead.
complete cowards. fuck this coaching staff. we are not back. we are irrelevant. get ready to get fuck stomped by osu, nu, and little bro. I'm being dead serious, no more games. this staff needs shook up.
Fire Borgers...that is all
This one is on Borges. How many times did we have 2nd &1, 3rd &1, and we run it right up the middle, where we haven't had any success since, oh I don't know, forever ago? The oline is terrible. It's Borges' job to adjust for that. He failed. Again.
poor, tepid playcalling plus players not playing with the same heart=death.
this team doesn't look like the one I saw in the Big House vs. Notre Dame.
Maybe the line is not ready for this Frankenstein offense, so far the high point of the offense that Borges has called, is the 2011 season when they ran mostly spread, maybe they need to look at that and bring more of those plays back
I am trying to be as rational as possible after a game like that.
But, how many negative running plays do you have to have in a season before the OL Coach or the OC has to go? I watch hundreds of college games every year, and even terrible teams do not have an many negatvie running plays as we do. Like seriously, watch some of these crappy teams next week get blownout, they still wont have that many negative plays.
Our special teams coach should be fired just for the simple fact that we do not use the spread punt. 95% of college teams use it and it has all but eliminated punt returns in most games. Add to that a horrible pooch punt tonight, the horrible field goal debacle tonight, the muffed punt returns, the gunners being where they are not supposed to be and costing us a fumble, etc. What does a ST coach have to do to get fired?
I will trade my entire kingdom and all the scantily-clad, big-busted virgins inside for a behemoth, unstoppable offensive line.
Fitz 27 rushes for 27 yards. How can Penn State get push and we can't?
Wash rinse repeat, wash rinse repeat. Much like the Borges play calling,if your shampoo isn't getting your hair clean.......maybe you change the freaking shampoo
I just keep shampooing my hair over and over again for 0.93 yards per shampoo.
One thing to add here: Devin's head was absolutely swimming from about the last 5 minutes of regulation onward. I wouldn't be surprised if we heard he has a concussion. Might explain all the pointless runs into the line.
That being said, the playcalling and the game theory bit was absolutely deplorable.
Seems Michigan forgot they had Funchess. It worked and then they just stopped running anything to him...
our only option. So much for trying others. I don't buy that BS, live and due with seniors appears to be Hokes way and I hate it.
I agree the play calling was bad but the o-line was awful. I don' t like ragging on kids but it is the worst o-line of my lifetime. It is brutal being in 3rd and long constantly because the interior can't block.
I blame fucking Hoke. It's his call whether he wants to put his foot on the gas in the 4th quarter. It's his call to not call TO and take a fucking delay of game. It's his call to not hunker down and kneel out two overtime periods. Borges ain't great, I'll grant that. But this is 100% on the head coach.
The call to be aggressive or be a bitch. Don't know who has that authority.
Maybe hoke has no confidence in the offense to win,if that's the case,that's a serious vote of no confidence in borges
Or he may not have confidence in Gardner specifically. This is a side effect of the turnovers: they seem to make our staff more gunshy.
Pray for a FG. Then let's run in 2nd and 1 with a bunch formation. They may think we have a cock and throw.
I can't think of a Michigan team that was this inept at running the ball. Once Lewan and Bryant went down, it was over. It just took PSU 2 quarters and 4 OT's to put us out of our misery
Was Bryant hurt or benched for poor play?
Can't win when Turnover Santa wears a winged helmet. Proven fact.
We won the turnover battle, 4-3. You could say it was 5-3 if you include the 4th down stop.
Now, which fine. But I'm pretty sure they wil he laughing harder in like 6 weeks.
That's a battle we should have lost. Maybe a trade for Dunn?
But I don't see Kalis getting enough push against Ohio to finish that game laughing even if we win. 2 years and 6 weeks from now, yeah.
He said they will be laughing harder, as in Ohio, not M.
I know everyone likes to blame rich rod for online recruiting, but this staff has had three years to develop linemen, and I don't see the development, the best linemen are lean and schofield, after they go this year, who is your anchor next year, who has been developed as the guy to run behind when you need a first down. Since 2011 the passing game has went backwards, the running game has gone backwards, the oline has gone backwards, fitz can't find a hole even if you roll the fat in flour changes have to be made, USC pulled the trigger to save next year, maybe Brandon needs to take notes
Boom... Of wait... Carry on...
PSU played lights out football and took advantage of M's weaknesses. Let's take the loss like the leaders and best we are, and move on to next week when we solidly beat Indiana.
Tonight. But even I won't go on to say PSU played well. They tried just as hard to give us the game tonight
Lights out football? Is that you Dave Brandon trying to sell me a UTL shirt?
dropped two touchdowns. that didn't help the offensive totals.
when it became apparent we couldn't run, which was very early, why we didn't go to a shotgun 4 receiver set i don't know. we played into penn state's hands the majority of the game. i felt like we were playing against alabama and shaun alexander back in the day but instead of making the adjustment and letting tom brady go all pass all the time we just kept wasting downs with useless run after useless run.
I wish for a few things. One, when Morris came in, everyone knew it was a handoff. Why not a bootleg rollout pass? Two, Fitz should have his backfield dance card revoked. Third, I would like to see this so called Manball shit move somebody off of the ball, at least every once in a while,
The whole world including my dead grandma knew we wouldn't let Morris throw.
Devin was ROLLING at that point. Call a damn TO and he doesn't have to sit one play. That was beyond stupid.
I want to pile on with all of you, but I can't. The offense put us I'm position to try 3 game ending FGs. They would have had first and goal with a PI call on the last drive.
Sure the running game ( from the RB position) was terrible, especially after this poor running team lost 2 starters. Yes they got conservative, but they were in position to win after another terrible start.
I'm struggling to pile on.
Oh, for all the complaining before the last 3 plays from 2:30 down to 1:00 in regulation. They sure got 2-3 first downs to almost run out the clock.
I agree 100%!
For all the belly aching about play calling, Michigan turned the ball over three times in the 1st half and handed PSU 14 points. Yet, they came back and had the game well in hand coming down the home stretch. One more snap, a FG, and it was over. Even a punt, after the 3rd down snap and they leave PSU under 30 seconds and no TO's. They had 3 chances to win in OT.
The offence did no such thing. It was the defence that put us in position for three field goals to win the game. I'm not sure, but I'd be surprised if our offence gained more than 2 yards per drive (not per play) in OT. I know lots of people just can't bring themselves to criticize anyone on this staff, but this loss can be placed squarely at the feet of Al and Brady in my opinion.
For Hokes part he blew calling a timeout that led to a delay of game and pushed us out of field goal range and then wasted a timeout after he just had the equivalent of one in the form of a video replay, leaving us no timeouts on the final drive.
I just feel terrible for the players after this one. Their coaches let them down.
For the program. It was also damaging to the confidence ofthe team. The gutless play calling screams "we don't trust the offense, so we're just going to try and burn the clock and take our chances with our kicker". They played not to lose and failed at that too.
Can probably throw Gibbons' confidence out the window, too, after tonight.
lineman move someone, but the defender may have just tripped ona blitzing unblocked linebacker.
lineman move someone, but the defender may have just tripped ona blitzing unblocked linebacker.
I thought no two snowflakes were supposed to be alike.
The loss to PSU is bad enough, but what's worse is realizing we are back where we started when RR was hired, with only one silver lining. Hoke is similar to RR, except reversed. Coaches strong to one side of the ball and develops a semi-elite level there, but totally ignores the other side of the ball where an incompetent coordinator autonomously produces a laughable product.
The only silver lining is Hoke recruits at a level far superior to RR.
The only silver lining is Hoke recruits at a level far superior to RR.
Supposedly he does. Results not yet shown. Our best Hoke recruit from 2 1/2 classes is .... Funchess?
Interesting stats regarding offense:
We ran 83 plays - helped by 4 overtimes, of course - but still, we managed 389 yards of offense over the course of the game, which is good for 4.69 yards per offensive snap. The criticism on offense might be rightly placed on run blocking - we managed 149 yards of rushing on 54 attempts, which is 2.8 yards per carry. Yeah.
Look, once again we gifted a less talented team 14 points. Not only that, but we likely would have scored on some of those drives, so there it nets out as nearly a 20 point swing. You're not going to win many games gifting the opposition that many points.
What really befuddles me is the OL play. It's like they're not even there. From the moment the ball is snapped they're completely blown up over and over again. Add to that the fact that Fitz seems to NEVER be moving FORWARD, and it's bound to be bad.
I know people want to hang it all on Borges and Funk, but someone has to have a reseasonble idea why Michigan's OL cannot block ANYONE.
To see texts being exchanged between Aaron Murray and Devin Gardner tonight. Or set them up on a date. argh.
how the O line never gets any better on the run block
I agree 100%
in overtime after handing PSU 14 in the 1st half? Oh ok stop blaming the OC its team game. another away loss yeah it hurts like a kick in the nuts but again this team is young like way young. All this belly-aching I had to check the score again. We were not going to play Alabama in the NTG anyway. Lets chalk it up to another learning lesson and move on. The end of the season we can evaluate whether coaches need to be released or demoted and what players need to sit more than play. GO BLUE!
I wonder what the average gain on first down was. -2 yards? And how many third downs were 3rd and 8 or more.
Anyone see what happened to Bryant? He was on the INC to Funchess that ended the drive (FG to go to 20), then next series Burzinyski was in and immediately allows a guy by him that almost sacks Gardner. I didn't notice Bryant get hurt, did he get yanked for performance? He was having a rough rough game up to that point.
I'm sick to my stomach. Just go for the TD in OT. Does being conservative ever pay off?
This is the first game since he's been here that I actually want to blame Borges. That's right, I thought he called good games against MSU and while I didn't love the Iowa game plan in 2011, I couldn't blame him entirely.
But I can't bring myself to blame him entirely. Our offensive line is the worst I have ever seen at Michigan, by a wide margin. And I watch the line exclusively during the game. With this line, what can a coordinator do? The one thing that worked was Gardner running, so Borges used that quite a bit in the 2nd half. That's good!
People wanted us to "play to win" in OT, whatever that means. I suppose that means they wanted us to pass, which we didn't do much of. But the line can't protect for shit, so we end up with a bunch of two man routes, which are tough, especially in OT when the field is shorter. Still, I would have done exactly what Borges did: when we only need a FG, run run run kick. Its not only the safe play, its the right play. The kicker has been good, and the QB has not been good throwing the ball.
I think the biggest event was the delay of game penalty on our last drive in regulation. It means that either:
a) we were never going to attempt a FG, so the penalty didn't really hurt
b) we were just too stupid to call a timeout and keep ourselves in FG range
Either scenario is bad, but neither is really on Borges. Pains me to say it, but this one is all on Hoke. Mattison's defense was good; he called great defenses all night, basically putting Stribling in position to end the game twice on the last drive. Again, I want to hate Borges, but this line is shit so I actually sympathize with him and have no ideas of what he could have done better. But Hoke is the head man. This is on him.
All that being said, I predicted this line would be worse than last year's, which is to say I knew we'd struggle this season. I thought we'd lose 3 games. I still think that's about where we'll end up. Maybe that's why I don't feel as devastated by this loss as I think I should.
My question is: why does it seem most offenses have as much difficulty converting a first down to ice a game as converting an 80 yard TD drive for a come-from-behind win?
After 40 years of watching football, it seems to me that most OCs shrink like a penis in winter when it comes to the challenge gaining 10 yards to win a game. This effect was especially strong with Borges after Penn State's TD with 6 minutes left.
UM put together a drive that used up Penn State's time outs. A point was reached where a first down wins the game and Borges shut it down so Wile could punt into the end zone. When 10 yards wins the game, why not open up the play book?
I would be curious to know what percentage of the time FBS teams are able to convert a first down in similar situations. I would like to know if there is a greater likelihood of getting that first down than using the final possession to score a TD when the drive starts on your own side if the field. Maybe the availability bias is in effect, but it seems each is about equally likely.
Biggest issue with the offense and Borges is his salary. We are paying him like he is one of the premiere OCs in the country. He doesn't make half the impact in recruiting even as Mattison, and they are paid relatively similarly. This is taking the results on the field and their resumes out of it, which clearly points to the favor of Mattison.