We'll get these up now to mitigate issues later - this is your thread to discuss issues with the offense and offensive playcalling.
The Snowflake Thread: Offense
Snowflake: It was not very gudt.
Just listened to some post game sound and Narduzzi had this to say about the Michigan offense post game: "There were no surprises. What they saw, was what they saw on tape."
So with two weeks to prep for this, Borges and Co. didn't offer up anything different. Good stuff.
We're so good that we don't need to be creative, just keep doing the same thing over and over. It'll work if everyone performs flawlessly and if they don't it is the players fault.
Some people believe that if there's a wall in your way, the best option is to go around or over the wall. The Michigan coaches believe that if you run into a wall head first into that wall enough, eventually, you'll out execute the wall.
Is this thread even necessary?
Something something didn't execute.
Start the flight tracker thread
There are no snowflakes to speak of today.a t least not on the offensive side of the ball.
we will only get bent over by Ohio State once.
I like how Michigan matches up with Ohio better than with State. We'll put up points and yards on them, just doubt it'll be enough. I'd take State over Ohio if they played next week.
Our best offense was our defense, and they weren't much better.
No reason to type what everyone is thinking.
This offense is bad. I can only imagine the Borges hate ahead but the unit of actual players is not good.
es no bueno.
The OLine can't block anyone. What do you want Borges to call??? There are no holes to run through and no time for a QB to throw. This teram is soft and the Oline coach has to go. I don't care about youth or inexperience.
Dantanio is the best head coach in the state. I hate the guy, but its true. He OWNS UM.
Part true, it's not really wise to continue to run play action fakes when we haven't had any success running the ball.
so play action on every play against a team blitzing all day and u can't run is smart play calling?
You sound like a fucking moron.
"I don't care about the factors that explain our O-Line's struggles! fire the coach!"
How about a screen, that usually slows the rush down a little...
I really think that our offensive line will be worse next year.
The cake is iced.......it's half eaten Nessler
Im embarrassed for Lewan today. He played like a dirtbag today...
Absolutely agree. I don't mind some hands to the face during the play but the things after the whistle and when guys were on the ground. Had a gholson kind of day
DG is going to need a week o heal up from the pounding. And fitz is god awful at blitz pick up. That was a shit load of sacks. Unreal.
He might set a record in negative UFR points. A big indictment of our FBs if so. Even on obvious passing downs, fitz was in, and his guy nearly always (until I stopped watching) got to DG or collapsed the pocket.
I am proud of how hard our kids played, and the effort they put out there on the field. Its not easy losing this way against a rival.
I am Johnny Raincloud for Fitzgerald Tousant and Taylor Lewan. Fitz, you open your mouth and mention little brother, you better back that shit up. Taylor, learn how to walk away from the pile? Yeah, you were being an ass today. Twisting facemasks, personal fouls, extra activity after the whistle. YOU'RE A SENIOR, YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THAT! Do that to someone like Ndomakong Suh next year, I guarantee you wont like the result. GROW UP!
Hard? I'm sorry but the players are pretty responsible for this one. Plays were there to be made and no one stepped up.
You think they werent playing their hardest? You go out there against the best defense in the country and see how you look... I guarantee they were playing their hardest. One thing I've learned over my years is to never question the effort that someone is putting in. This team played hard, and I'm proud.
but, let me fix that for you, Coaching staff didnt put our players in the best position to make plays. Simple as that.
MSU isn't actually the best defense in the country. HTH
Name one better. It is the most complete well rounded defense in the country.
That might be true, but do you have any facts to back that up at this point of the season?
One drive they allowed 3 straight sacks. Stupid penalties, dropped passes and zero blocking. I'm sorry they didn't come to play today whatever you think of the effort. Plays were there to be made and no one save chesson did.
Maybe we just played a better defense? I mean, playing hard and playing well are not the same thing
you can play hard without playing well
Yeah we've been ripping on State and their class, but all I saw today was Lewan being an idiot a few times.
I fell on the sword a few weeks ago.
Somebody needs to step up this week
wow you started a fire borges thread? how courageous
I didn't think the play calling was as bad as most seem to certainly not as bad as a few previous games. Though Chesson is the only offensive player I can think of that made a play. The bad snap and stupid penalties nothing went right today.
Things could of been more good
But, but, if we don't drop balls, and we have some lucky bounces, and if F itz his the hole, and if the offense fairies show up and we spontaneously play 3 times better...
Dare I say it? I don't think there was anything we could do to win that game. They were tougher, more disciplined, they executed better, they were better prepared, better coached, and had a better scheme, with half the talent we have... That's it... They are better than us.
It is what it is. Their tails were up the whole game, and we spent the whole game chasing our own. It's a bummer.
Yep. The great majority of the time, the better team wins. They are better this year. It's as simple as that. Nothing we can do about it. That should be pretty obvious by now.
Most of the 20/20 hindsight stuff is just fans trying exert control over things they have no control over. It's hard not to do that when you are a big fan, but it is important not to take it too seriously. Most of the things we obsess about are way more random than we realize.
It's a tough year to be a Wolverines football fan, but I am one, and I'll keep watching and cheering them on. Painful as it can be, I still love watching them.
Here is a snowflake.....the entire offensive staff is awful. Hell I'd wish they offer a lot of money to Greg Frey who worked wonders with what he has as an OL. Funk hasn't done squat.
Borges is what he is, a guy who still lives off of 2004 Auburn.
Time to let Funk and Borges go. Hoke has another year to get to the B1G Championship Game. At this point we are regressing. The stubbornness from the coaching staff kills me. They stick with Fitz and give the other backs ZERO carries. Lloyd, Mo, and Bo ALL used other backs and fullbacks.
lol yeah, if only green had been in there. would have been a different game...
Can we start a petition
and to think people mocking on MSU's offense earlier in the season...
2nd half. Indictment on AL BORGES.
We fucking suck.. You surprised?? Rich Rod fucked us over pretty hard.
RE hasn't coached here in three years. I know he left us thin on the O-Line but he also left us Scofield and Lewan. A competent line coach should be able to have Kalis, Bryant, Magnuson, Bosch, etc ready to play. There are several teams across the country who are operating with extremely young O-linemen. And they all seem to be able to run the ball.
And the reason he has not is that he failed miserably in recruiting o and d line depth. He is the reason we have no depth on the o-line. We have "depth" now, it's just they are all freshman. That's not a fair matchup against a good d-line, which is why we've had so many problems this year running the ball.
WHO!?!?! So many people talk about all the other teams being competent while putting out a bunch of young guys on the line, and no one ever names a team.
Honestly, this team would be really good if we had even a semblance of an offensive line. I've never seen such a terrible offensive line. Our playmakers have no chance at doing anything. I feel bad for Gardner. Guy got murdered today.
it's impossible for our O-Line to be this bad with adequate coaching. I know they are young in the middle, but they are an absolute joke. Play calling didn't fill me with joy, but we can't run the fucking football at all. Something has to be wrong with the O-Line coaching.
Straight Kiffen them in the locke room.
Knowing that wont' happen, for fucks sake someone ask this man some tough questions in the presser.
It comes down to168 total yards on 58 plays, which is 2.90 yards per snap on average. As MSU allows 3.4 yards per play on average, we performed, well, not so good against the average. The most glaring stat on offense is, of course, the rushing totals.
Including sacks, 29 carries for -48 yards. That's -1.7 yards per carry. Remove the sacks, and it is Ftiz going for 20 yards on 8 carries, so....well...anyway.
Coach Funk must have an incredible amount of blackmail on Hoke - how else does Funk even have a job? The O-Line is sad, just sad.
Two weeks to plan how to cover O-line problems. Two weeks to figure out something besides deep drops and going over the top. Two weeks to figure out how to block and scheme against the A-gap blitz.
Borges must go.
If Borges and Funk are here next season, then Hoke is no better than RR. I'm not saying they are the same, but when it became obvious that the defense wasn't working, the coaches responsible remained on staff because of misguided loyalty. If those two remain, it is for the same reason and (as pointed out above), will probably produce the same result.
They need to talk to Beilein,
mad as anyone with the offensive output today. We marched down the field on the first drive throwing the ball. It was a good gameplan, and I don't think Al Borges was the problem. I do think that having three freshman on the interior line, is a major problem. It has cost us bigtime against UCONN, Minnesota, Penn State and now MSU. We should have one all three of the first ones, but this time the rest of the team couldn't make up for the clearly deficient O-line.
I"m sure I'll be chastised here, but this is the last game against State that Rich Rodriguez will lose for us. It's simply not possible to compete against a good big 10 team with three o-line freshman on the interior line. It doesn't help that Gardner is not a quick drop passer, which would partly mitigate the problem, but the bottom line is that if you cannot run, and you cannot pass protect for longer than 3 seconds, you will lose
The defense was pretty good today. It's tough to be backed up all day. They gave up 16 points, until the last drive, and the yardage was very respectable. This is all on the o-line to me. The complete lack of depth there is clear, and the cause of that is likewise.
Borges is the problem. If you have three Freshman lineman that aren't very good at run blocking at this point, then stop running the ball. Borges play calling should mostly be passing, and definitely abandon any big formations. And before anyone says we were sacked almost 10 times today, how many of those sacks were in obvious passing situations where they did not have to defend the short pass?
Taylor Lewan has to be kicking himself for how much money he's left on the table to come back and put in a performance like he has this season.
And, really, when you know the cameras are on you in a stadium full of a fanbase that already thinks you're scum, why are you grabbing facemasks after the whistle and jawing back? It's been like this for four years. He's good for a stupid personal foul just about every game. I really wonder why the hell he's such a headcase.
Morris looks very agile. I'm surprised how well he moves with the ball.
that team get dragged around the field. To boot, was there anything, anything the staff has shown that they are anywhere close to a leap. 2011 was a total fluke - and performance after performance only confirms that.
I think multiple snowflakes threads ARE FUCKING STUPID!
Yeah, it's much worse than 50 different threads discussing the same topic but each thought is so special and groundbreaking it deserves it own thread.
and beat UofM over the head with it. What a joke.
Devin is a tough motherfucker. What a ballsy last drive. We left it all out on the field tonight. State was just better.
Can we have a snowflake thread about how much I fucking can't stand MSU fans and their asshole fanbase.
But FSU or Oregon would put about 50 on them.
That just shows how far the B10 is from competing nationally. MSU's defense is dominating a joke of a conference.
Their Defense isn't great, they just play in the B1G where everything else has become mediocre.
-Why is Toussaint still getting 100% of the snaps? He gives us nothing and is a liability blocking.
-O-line gets dumber and dumber, worse and worse every year. Changes need to be made now.
I can't imagine that we weren't all asking this question all game long. How many blocks did Fitz miss? Put Green back there. He's got at least one thing Fitz doesn't: 240 lbs. Hell, put Kerridge or Shallman back there. We can't run the ball anyway. Really, really need a serviceable blocker.
I think asking Toussaint to block--and hold that block--against a 250 lb linebacker running downhill or a defensive lineman is a schematic failure.
Japanese solution - when leadership has failed, ritual suicide.
Kill oneself with a sword in the gut.
That's what I would have the coaches do. Line up at midfield and symbolicly, with imaginary swords, gut themselves. That would be awesome and we'd then talk about something else that was less stressful than the same old snowflakes we've been bitching about all year BUT KNOW FOR A FACT will not change.
THIS THREAD SHOULD BE TOTALLY EMPTY! WTF PEOPLE! THERE'S NO SNOWFLAKES IN -48!
AND YES I'M SHOUTING!
from Hoke about how he wants a physical team. This team has become less physical each freaking year. RichRod's teams were more physical than this one.
Booty, butt, ass, is how the offense looks. FUNK does need to go. No excuse - even youth - for looking this damn bad. Did any other team look this shitty against Staee? I don't think so.
I am very puzzled by Borges. He knows our line play sucks yet he still wants Gardner to wait for 30 yard pass plays to develop. He also never goes with 4 or 5 wide and I think he needs to do that with this team and throw some quick strikes more often.
This has probably been brought up but why the hell was Michigan even doing play-action in the 2nd half? There was no reason as obviously MSU was not biting on it.
Why play action?
For the chance that we can trick MSU into thinking we only want to lose 1 yard instead of 8...
I don't find any--or at least not much--fault for Gardner in this one. Yeah, he threw the late interception when there was a flicker of hope--after being abused by linebackers having a free run at him all day. He didn't have a damn chance today. The TOTAL FUCKING INABILITY to put together a competent gameplan coming out of a bye week is repugnant. The development of the young offensive linemen is not happening. Michigan has some deep program issues that are not going to be easy to resolve.
Anyone here think Michigan has worse players than Purdue? Because Purdue's offense performed better against this team than Michigan did. Purdue's offense actually gave their defense some time to rest, didn't go three-and-out every time, and didn't set a school record for rushing ineptitude.
It goes beyond play-calling with Borges. It goes to player development. Denard Robinson got worse from 2011 to 2012. Devin Gardner has gotten worse from 2012 to 2013, and he's gotten worse within 2013. What does it say when the longer a QB is with your staff, the worse he gets?
And then the offensive line. Lewan had one of his worst games today. The receivers do look good and seem to be trending in a positive direction, but from a player development point of view that's the only thing on the offense that I'm happy about. As an offensive coordinator you have to do your player development work before the season. That's part of the job, and these guys clearly aren't getting there.
And then the plays. Why are you passing MSU's best defensive lineman from Lewan to a running back in an obvious passing situation? Why are you taking snaps under center when they average about -3 yards per play? Why do you run under center, when your best running plays come from the shotgun? Why are you trying to pass downfield every play and taking tons of sacks? Why was Gardner able to time his scrambles well in 2012, but has gotten worse at it in 2013? Why did we suck against UConn? There's a myriad of data points that Borges and the guys he picked are not good at their jobs.
Hoke has had, by far, was using solely RichRod's recruits. An indisputable fact.
Until today, I was buying the line that the team was just young and needed to mature. But no more. Today they were pathetic. Michigan has regressed every year. That's a fact. MSU ran straight over the top of them. That's a fact. That's what Michigan used to do to teams.
3 years in and this team is almost as shitty as RichRod's last team. This is a 4 loss team. Minimum. Toss in Hoke's first home loss (OSU), and a likely bowl loss (any team with a pulse will beat these guys. See Akron, Uconn) and we are looking at a 6 loss team.
Hoke needs to do some soul searching. Something is seriously wrong with this staff. They get out-schemed by above average teams. And they haven't developed anyone.
You win. Seriously. You win.
but he's at a crossroad with his OL. As a head coach you have to figure out what you can do and do it. His OL is out of control...
I don't expect him to fire anyone during the season but he has to demonstrate he has the guts and desire to be a champion. Something has to change.
Can someone crunch the numbers on how many times we went play action today? That doesn't work apparently when you have -59 yards rushing in the fourth quarter.
I guess Brady Hoke nor Al Borges got that memo in high school football.
At least no pick-six today. Should've scored a touchdown on that late 4th-Qtr drive. The O-line is killing Gardner. Oh how is Gardner's injury by the way?
Just wanted to drop in super quick and say we are a fucking dumpster fire and that I've got nothing else on the matter.
He made me think Borges was an evil genius
So far I've given Borges the benefit of the doubt given that we aren't quite finished making the transition from a RR offense. Same with Funk, seeing as how young the interior O-line is. Today changed all of that. There just isn't an excuse for only scoring 6 points against MSU. The entire offensive coaching staff needs an overhaul. Once the season is over, Brandon needs to write some extremely large checks and bring in the best possible assistants.
Anyone who thinks he's not the worst OC please list why?
and tiyt e3nds and pwer and fyhllbax and skore!
O line was terrible. I think the guards got overwhelmed at times. Glasgow killed a drive launching a snap over Gardner's head.
Fitz was horrible picking up blitzes, but I think one of his misses may have been Taylor having a mental breakdown. Didn't block anyone on that play.
In the third quarter, the receivers dropped passes and no one made a play. We had some chances to turn it around and did nothing with them.
Devin got the snot beat out of him. I can't lay this one at his feet.
In general, wow, bad across the board. Execution sucked. Clearly, gained no advantage from the bye week. O line needs serious repair and you wonder if the coaches can do that.
So at some point, execution needs to go back to the coaches. When your schemes require execution that is twice as likely to fail as other schemes because your plays require all 11 players to be on the same page, the problem isn't the players, it's the staff. Fire Borges.
At this point I just want to fuse RR's defense with Hoke's offense because fuck me.
The game of football has passed Al Borges by. Like I said three weeks ago, and got negged relentlessly, he is the worst coordinator the University of Michigan football program has ever had. Far worse than GERG. We used to ride Debord and Carr for their unimaginative game calling which would allow us to beat the teams we out-talented and lose to the ones on par or better, but now we don't even beat the teams we out-talent. We almost lose to the Akrons and UCONNs of the world...
Yadda yadda young line, bad weather, excuse #34234. Al Borges absolutely MUST be let go after this season, and if I were Dave Brandon, I'd crater this whole thing if I could get Narduzzi as head coach. Hoke recruits well, but has been his single redemption. Even against mighty Indiana Hoke needed a Gordon Int late in the game to seal the win...
My buddy pointed this out in the off season but I didn't believe him, but do now: our coaching staff just isn't that good. Borges and Funk absolutely must be fired come end of year, and Brandon's search for a high priced replacement should commence now.
Completly agree, bringing a SDSU coach with his crew to build a program that was driven into the ground by a WVU coach and crew was a huge mistake..what we needed was a Meyer like guy to come in and bring some real coaching and some toughness to this broken down team
thing on O. He is an aggressive blocker made a play downfield.
Whelp, that's about it.
will be 60/40 osu fans come gameday. book it.
What's with this "book it" stuff.
Are you going to pay out if you lose the bets?
It looked like Borges used the bye week to work on the three step sack. Poor Gardner, in his drops, was followed closely by D linemen. Often he was immediately sacked. Sometimes he was able to spin away so that he could lose additional yardage. I have never witnessed an offense only send 2 or 3 on pass routes allow so many defenders into the backfield. I am beyond disappoint.
Pretty sure we would have had more rush yards had we kneeled down on every play we were planning to run. That is all
Partly due to the knowledge that this team is young and our OL was criminally bare after RR. But those days are gone. Strongly disappointed in the stubborn approach to play calling this season.
Having seen him in action for a pretty reasonible time. He's just not getting it. As is many times the case, a QB with his level of athleticism and size is just broken. I've only coached kids from 3rd to 7th grade and I've seen this story repeat itself enough to draw some pretty repeatible conclusions. When coaches starting at the early ages want to win, they put the athlete at QB and let him run free. Give him one play and his 2nd option is always the same. Himself. Great athletes like Devin & Denard along with the likes of Vince Young, Tebow, JeMarcus etc are very successfull at every level until they are forced to manage an offense where they are the last option. Devin was given a tough situation today, poor blocking, a defense with hyper aggressiveness going full tilt, bad weather and a few no calls that did make a difference. However his limitations become glaring as soon as a linebacker or anyone for that matter hints to pressure him. He immediately stops seeing what he should and I can clearly watch him shift into "me" gear. Just like Denard and so many others. Even Conner whats his ass has a far more refined sense of pocket control and mental calmness when #1 breaks down. Borges needs that more than any other skill in his QB's and he has seen very little of it since arriving at michigan. In games like this one, a tough D on the road in shit storm weather poise is the only currency trading and Devin's a great kid with a great attitude and he's tough as nails but poise and clear headed presence are not in his toolkit. He never needed those things. Tom Brady, Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford and even Connor Cook would never have gotten to even Starting FBS quarterback without them.
I am at lost for words when it comes to this offense.. My main question is, are we not evaluating this recruits hard enough or what?? We have so called talent but i am not seeing it at all..
Seeing, like, 20 sideline shots of Denard made me sad. I miss his musk...
Please explain to me why funchess was lined up tight for most of the game? Devin had no chance all night - worse blocking I gave ever seen - doesn't matter what the game plan was. The kids can't execute what these coaching are asking - so to me that is on the coaching. Not the kids.