Apparently I'm still a kid because I let this stupid shit upset me still.
also duty-free guys falling over and grabbing their shins
Apparently I'm still a kid because I let this stupid shit upset me still.
Agreed. I'm 38 and it used to be every year we'd lose one crappy game. Now it happens more often.
Overall I thought it was okay through much of the game but shit hit the fan with about 2 minutes remaining the 4th.
Of course, the conservative playcalling probably happened because Hoke and Borges didn't foresee Gibbons -- one of our most reliable players -- miss 4, including 3 game-winning, FG attempts.
"Hoke elects to punt instead of kick a FG to potentially go up 10. This is probably the right decision at the time, as you cannot foresee the pooch punt going bad and the defense giving up 80 yards in 23 seconds. In hindsight, it's terrible"
The ball was on the PSU 32, but with the penalty it was pushed back to the 37. If BG missed, PSU get's the ball at the hold spot. 32 is a 49 yard kick, 37 is 54 yard kick.
I think the decision to punt made sense. It was the failure to call timeout to avoid the delay of game that frustrates me.
This, exactly this. He had 2 fucking timeouts less. I can't believe the kind of incompetence it takes not to burn one there. Of all the stupid shit our coaching staff did this game, this upset me the most. At this point I expect Borges to be incompetent, but I honestly expected more from hoke
But to be fair, that's at least partially on Glasgow and Gardner. They've got to know when the playclock hits zero.
Point taken, but they seemed to get the call late and are trying to get off a play in the heat of the moment. I give them a lot more leeway than hoke, who's sitting on the sideline, without any apparent input in the play call and just watching as absolutely nothing is happening. He's gotta call TO when the clock gets down to 1
because they already decided to pooch punt and wanted to increase the distance.
But then why not do it again on 4th down?
|1st and 10 at MICH 34||Fitzgerald Toussaint rush for 8 yards to the Mich 42.||34||27|
|2nd and 2 at MICH 42||Fitzgerald Toussaint rush for 4 yards to the Mich 46 for a 1ST down.|
|1st and 10 at MICH 46||Fitzgerald Toussaint rush for no gain to the Mich 46.|
|2nd and 10 at MICH 46||Timeout MICHIGAN, clock 4:18.|
|2nd and 10 at MICH 46||Derrick Green rush for a loss of 2 yards to the Mich 44.|
|3rd and 12 at MICH 44||PENN ST penalty 15 yard Pass Interference on Adrian Amos accepted, no play.|
|1st and 10 at PSU 41||Derrick Green rush for no gain to the PnSt 41.|
|2nd and 10 at PSU 41||Timeout PENN ST, clock 3:22.|
|2nd and 10 at PSU 41||Fitzgerald Toussaint rush for 3 yards to the PnSt 38.|
|3rd and 7 at PSU 38||Timeout PENN ST, clock 3:17.|
|3rd and 7 at PSU 38||Devin Gardner rush for 10 yards to the PnSt 28 for a 1ST down.|
|1st and 10 at PSU 28||Timeout PENN ST, clock 3:10.|
|1st and 10 at PSU 28||Fitzgerald Toussaint rush for 1 yard to the PnSt 27.|
|2nd and 9 at PSU 27||Fitzgerald Toussaint rush for no gain to the PnSt 27.|
|3rd and 9 at PSU 27||MICHIGAN penalty 5 yard Delay of Game on Devin Gardner accepted.|
|3rd and 14 at PSU 32||Fitzgerald Toussaint rush for a loss of 3 yards to the PnSt 35.|
|4th and 17 at PSU 35||Matt Wile punt for 35 yards for a touchback.|
|DRIVE TOTALS: MICHIGAN drive: 10 plays 31 yards, 05:45 MICHIGAN PUNT|
That's why I said "This is probably the right decision at the time", but disaster ensued after. More importantly, how is nobody watching the game clock in that situation? Burn the TO to avoid that disastrous penalty.
C'mon, how many fucking times do Brian and the Mathlete and every single other person have to point out that the expected value going for it when you're past your opponents' 40 is better than the expected value doing a pooch.
Punters just can't keep it out of the endzone...
It was 4th and 17. You can't seriously have wanted to go for the first down there? Your only realistic options there are FG or punt.
the point was just "punting inside your opponents' 40 is pointless." Obviously I'm arguing they should have attempted the field goal...
Problem is, our kicker doesn't have 50+ yard range, so you're probably going to miss there and give them the ball at their own 35.
It's a crappy part of the field to be on. It really sucks that we went from 1st and 10 at the 28 (within Gibbons's range) to that.
You alluded to it in your last bullet, but don't forget that the whole reason he opted to punt in the 4th was that he let the play clock expire with 2 timeouts in hand, moving it from a 45 to 50 yard potential field goal. That field goal would've made it a 2 score game. Now, based on what we saw in OT, who knows if gibbons would've made it, but still, just total and utter incompetence from Hoke
I just cannot understand how Devin doesn't get that play off.
Glasgow didn't snap the damn ball in time. Also, the play was late getting in from upstairs. This game is on the coaches, and the o-line. The fact that Al got thrown off his scripted plays in the first couple series pretty much fucked the whole game from there on out. Throw in a couple turnovers, terrible game management by Hoke, and here we are.
Mediocre - just like our team. And, that's probably a compliment.
Play calling on both sides of the ball conservative to the point of obsurdity. Coaching is lacking as well...the Oline doesnt know how to block and the QB doesnt know how or is not allowed to audible out of tragic calls. I would never be this conservative with my fantasy team: Go ND Fighting Chickens, beat the Public Enemas tomorrow.
Between Borges being Borges and Mattison refusing to rush more than 4 against a freshman QB, it was a pretty frustrating evening. Though it's pretty indicative of the entire season thus far.
I feel sick. This coaching staff completely lost the game with their end of game strategy. As has been mentioned previously, The 10 point lead offense/defensive playcalling that led to PSU tying it up, complete garbage. How do you run it 3 times and then take the delay of game and pooch punt it instead of going for a field goal?? The end of 4th quarter defense was even worse. Can't even blame Stribling because he honestly had the best positioning he could on that play. OT coaching and execution was horrendous. We did not deserve to win this game and the rest of the big ten schedule is looking a lot more difficult.
F U BUTTCHIN
on the DVR, he was in good position, he just stopped to short before jumping. He let Robinson get behind him just enough at the last second to miss tipping the ball by a couple of inches. Not a horrible play by him. But having someone who has hardly played all night going 1x1 with their only good, 1st team all Big Ten receiver, is just another nail in the "Coaches Screwed Us" coffin......
And you know what? Borges has go to go. And this time I'm 100% serious. You cannot have an OC as incompetant as him costing us games we should win. Iowa 2011, Notre Dame 2012, Ohio State 2012, and now this. Yeah let's run over and over into 8 and 9 guys in the box. What in fucking fuck.
I'll say what I've been saying since the Akron game again: Al Borges was and is a mistake. He believes his pro system will work at the college level but fails to comprehend that college QBs and offensive linemen rarely if ever reach the fundamental competency floor required to ably run the pro attack he wants.
Anyone holding onto the "O line inexperience" card is not only wrong, but hurting the direction of this program by delaying the conclusion another year or two: Al Borges is not a good college football offensive coordinator.
Why do our running backs take hand offs 2 yards behind where other running backs take them? Why do our running backs take hand offs a full second after when other running backs take them?
The loss to Penn State was awful enough given my deep resentment for a program who's passion for victory led to the cover up of the unspeakable abuse of children. It just seems wrong to watch people embrace that same passion for Penn State victory now, even 2 years removed. But that's just me. What's worse is coming to the realization that we are watching the inverse Rich Rodriguez situation unfolding, where we are now elite on defensel, but laughably comical on offense, with a head coach who once again pays little to no attention to the other side of the ball. The only salvation is Hoke's superior recruiting. THAT IS IT!!! Hoke > RR only because he recruits better.
I'd pay a lot of money if Al Borges would go join GERG in Texas, or maybe the two of them can just go bowling or something as long as it kept Borges the hell away from Michigan.
except this defense is not elite. An elite defense doesn't give up that end of regulation score.
the first box of twinkies to throw in for the negotiations with Charlie Weis. I think all we need is about 1000 more and we might have a shot.
JK. I think.
Open Letter to Brady ... You have brought us back to the brink of respectability ... You have to get rid of Borges (Uncle Fester) ... Right Now!!!!!! Whoever is coaching the offensive line ... Get rid of him ... I love Mattison but guess what you are pussying out man ... This defense should have locked this game down 4 times tonight ... Man Up and Play aggressive or f'n retire!!!!!!! We all have too much vested to witness this kind of an effort. Unacceptable.
After watching three years of this, I'm convinced this is not the guy or the staff (as a whole) that's going to get it done. You can't live in the past and keep up with the present. The team just doesn't look "sound" as other, even less talented teams. I get we are recruiting well but you still have to out gameplan the guy across from you and sooner or later to win what we all want, that other team will have equal or better talent. This staff, and in particular Hoke has shown zero ability to out gameplan on a consistent basis. Not the guy and don't see him becoming the guy.
So you're saying we should start the "revolving revolving door" coaching thing at Michigan so that the top recruiting classes that we have coming in bail? Sounds like a plan. Hey, I'm looking for a new partner in my firm, you sould like a guy that knows how to get things done, wanna join?
Agree - bad idea to get rid of Hoke at this point. But I am getting tired of hearing him say in every press conference, "We have to do better as coaches." I don't know what this means anymore. I'm not seeing improvement or evolution in the game plan. So what does doing better as a coach mean? The takeaway from Borges' pressers is that he's been through all this before with (insert former QB here). So with all that experience, we should be seeing results, yes? I hate to say this, but it's starting to feel like a lot of empty talk.
We are suffering temendously from the disastrous 2010 class which saw no OL and some ridicuous attrition. Hoke's got his second recruiting class in and has been recruiting very highly, particularly where our current team weaknesses are: offensive line and defensive line.
Honestly, it's 6 years before the coach fully owns all players on his team, and while I'm not saying we should wait it out that long I am saying year 3 is not the year you fire a coach unless it's for something egregious. Do you really want to continue the transition that has been ongoing since 2007? What results has that gotten us?
I wonder what would have happened if Hoke HAD eaten before the game.
I'm sure I'll get negged for saying this, but I'm just saying what I think a lot of us are thinking anyway:
Is Hoke the guy? Yes, he's an amazing recruiter, there's no doubt about that. But there were moments of pure coaching ineptitude tonight. Those delay of games should never have happened. I can't stand that conservative, lloydball, play not to lose mindset. That, among other things, cost us the game tonight.
I know we all like to bash on Urban Meyer on this board, but these are the kinds of things that would never happen with a guy like him at the helm. That man's teams play to win, and that mindset carries down to his players. They don't sit on a 7-10 point lead and hope the other team doesn't come back and win.
We're in the third year of Hoke's system, and on a lot of fronts, things just aren't getting better. In some cases, they're getting worse. I'd honestly have to question if this O-Line could guard efficiently against an FCS team. They've shown me nothing to make me think that they could. They make opposing D-Lines look like the damn '85 Bears. And we just can't win on the road. At all. I don't know what it is, but this team completely shits the bed whenever they leave Ann Arbor. Does not bode well for when we face a legitimate defense in EL in a few weeks. Narduzzi will be blitzing all damn day.
At the end of the day, I wonder if we've seen everything out of Hoke that we're going to get. His coaching tonight makes me seriously question his ability to lead this team to a conference title, much less a national campionship.
agree with this assessment.
I don't think you can say after 1 game that Hoke isn't a good coach. He has shown a lot of killer instinct in the past. I think what happened tonight is concerning, no doubt, but it's kinda hard to write him off based on it. He really does need to get more involved in fixing the offense, but as far as game management goes, he's shown lots of capability in the past.
How many times can you hit a brick wall running up the middle before you realize it's time to get creative. Come on Borgess take a risk or step aside.
I can look past Borge's play calling. I don't like it, but given execution he's left with not a lot of options. Hoke... I can chalk this up to an isolated game where he just didn't have the killer instinct. I think you have to give him credit given his past that this is not his MO.
Funk on the other hand... I haven't seen a damn thing that says he is capable of coaching at this level. I understand you have some young guys, but to not field something even a MAC level O line out of 7-8 options is just ridiculous. The only guys that have any semblence of competence are guys that got coaching from someone else before. Seeing 4 and 5 stars trot out and make mistake after mistake and get physically pushed back because of poor technique just isn't acceptable. Time is up for him, as far as I'm concerned. Wisconsin salvaged they're season a couple years ago with a O-line coach shake-up, I'm hoping there's still time for us.
If your head coach doesn't have the killer instinct every single game, I think your (our) head coach has a big problem. Are we in this to win games or be good sports and always say the right, non-controversial things to the media? A lot of people around here praise Hoke for saying nothing to the media, even after a 20 minute press conference. But maybe that's a reflection of what he's really thinking.
I don't think the "killer instinct" thing is really fair. Gardner had three turnovers tonight to add to however many he's had all year, and if we'd had asked him to drop back and he'd gotten sacked/stripped, everyone would be pissed off. As it was, we drove inside their 30.
I thought the last real drive went to plan until the delay of game penalty. That's not an issue of "killer instinct," it's just a plain blunder on the part of the coaches, QB and center.
I don't think that's really fair. Game management theory isn't an exact science. There are odds and statistics to consider, but you have to go with your gut. Hoke's gut has told him to go for it many times, but tonight he got cold feet for whatever reason. Given the team's performance, you can't really fault him for going to a safe, low variance option. (In hindsight) obvious, it turned out to be the wrong decision, but you can't say that leaving a freshman QB with 50secs to go 80 yards to beat you with no time outs is a terrible call either.
Now, missing the two delay of games is concerning, and he's shown some instances of that in the past. Someone on the staff, if not Hoke himself, needs to have better awareness to keep that from ever happening.
Agree . . . Funk is THE guy on the staff that most needs to be on the hot seat. It's unbelievable how bad our OL is.
how i hate thee. it's clear we can't run power. so why not go old school northwestern. the tight ends can't block anyway, so why not spread the field and use 4 wide outs more often. this would take a couple defenders out of the box and open it up for devin and fitz. plus, gallon and dileo would be more effective on short routes. oh well. maybe next year borges will learn. but i highly doubt it.
End of regulation not going for more yards then field goal was just stupid. Hoke playing conservative ball is not how you win a game in that environment. Brady is the guy we want still but I hope he learns from this one. Otherwise he can go assist Ferentz at Iowa where stupid decisions happen on the reg. Hope Lewan is alright!!!
sending in shane rather than taking a TO cost us a crucial down and maybe 4 pts.
very bad night for the coaches.
My wife told me to calm down as I yelled at the TV to take the TO instead of sending in Morris. Hell, if you didn't want him to throw, just do a naked bootleg and see what shane can do.....
Same thing happend at my house.
Hope the conservative fan base is happy. This program is so far from contending for a national title I do not know where to begin. The Lloyd Carr years are back. Hopefully everyone will be happy with 8 to 10 wins a year with the occasional BIG title. The thought of it makes me sick. The goal should be NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. Sure we all think that is the under tone of the program, but when all you preach is that at Michigan BIG titles is the goal. That used to be okay when the entire country did not see every college football game every week. When was the last time you herd that message come out of the BAMA program. You haven't because they expect to win national titles. While I am at it MANBALL my ass. This coaching staff has their kids, their system and still can not run the ball a lick. The dinasoar philosophy of MANBALL only works if you can run. Play to WIN NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS not to NOT LOSE game in Happy Valley in October. Help me Fielding H. Yost at least you understand.
my Ohio fan friends and family admit that we would have beat them last year if we ran MOAR jet sweep with Denard. Instead we run Vincent Smith up the middle. Lose to SC in a bowl game and create a highlight that will never stop being played. Also created Hesiman hype for Clowney.
Now my Ohio friends and family are calling Borges one of the worst OC's in the B1G.
Their team fucks up and gets sanctioned with no consequences. Urban Cryer is a little bitch but his offense is lethal and they do just enough on defense to get thru. They beat teams they should beat with ease and in tight games they pull out the wins. We have started to play not to lose the last 2 seasons really and it is costing us right games just like it did under Carr.
No easy solutions to the problems. Start by running a spread on O because that hybrid pro shit is not working. If Borges is unwilling to adapt (this is not Auburn 1998), then Brandon should force Hoke to fire him. Hate to be this way but we only need to look at our past and learn from our history to not make the same mistakes.