Don't hold back. Go all the way. You want Borges gone because he doesn't run the spread. That's what you mean by "putting your players in position to succeed." You, Brian, everyone else. Its a stupid thing to complain about, though. It's not happening. Lets deal with what is happening.
The Snowflake Thread: Coaching
I like how you crawled out of your hole after this game. I missed reading 5000 defensive posts about how Al Borges is a good OC from you after the Nebraska game.
You are a liar.
I have never said Borges is a good OC. Every single one of my apologia has been about how the criticisms are stupid, which they are. And I've defended him because I think his job is very hard when the line is incapable of blocking a single play right. I do not care at all if Borges is fired or not, and I've said so repeatedly. Just because i don't think Borges is stupid does not mean i think he's a good OC. Just because i think the complaints about play calling are stupid does not mean that i think he is a good OC. Just because i cut him slack for having to come up with game plans behind a dreadful offensive line dies not mean I think he is a good OC. There it is, in black and white. So stop lying about my comments.
Is it gonna get better? I think so. I'm glad we finally saw what Green and Smith can do.
Was there still a lot of bad things? Yes.
Is Northwestern bad? Yes. Keep in mind we put up a lot of points against IU also. That doesn't mean our offense is that great and we found that out against msu and nebraska.
I still think we need better position coaches next year if we want to go toe to toe in the future with osu.
It's debatable whether they should have gone or kicked. But IF you go, that playcall is just an abomination.
Huge Borges fanboy here, obvi!
I agree. The call was entirely predictable. It has been our go to short yardage/2 point/goal line/4th down play. It has been good to us. But I, the person who hates every single "predictability" complaint ever levied against any offensive coordinator at any level ever, admit that it was predictable and that we probably went to the well one too many times. That, and I never really want Kalis being the focal point of my crucial plays if at all avoidable.
Other than that, though, I liked Al's game plan, his personnel decisions, and his play calling today.
i'm one of borges' biggest critics. being at the game, i didn't have benefit of replay. but i could see a few wrinkles that he added (funky pass/draw play) and they worked. i even saw some holes openend by the o-line and some RB cut backs.
however, i think borges' redzone playcalling was an abomination. he only threw ONE pass in the endzone the entire regulation. i just don't get why he seems so against it, especially given that we have 3 WRs that can go up and get the ball.
I wasn't at the game, but obviously the wind was a big factor. For example, rewatch the Gallon TD drop in OT. Notice how the ball starts to tail under in mid-flight? It looked to me like Gallon had trouble judging the ball because the wind played havoc with the trajectory.
Just went for it on 4th and 2 and ran the exact same play as Michigan did and didn't get it either.
They were in the redzone too.
I was actually glad that if we lost somebody was getting fired UNTIL Hoke went for it on 4th and 2. I was actually pissed because I so badly wanted Hoke to keep his job at that moment, and it looked like we were going to lose. It was such a balls call I gotta love it.
The jerk stole my only joy if we lost, and then won on top of it.
This is a game and momentum swing I can't imagine anyone not celebrating.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Borges wasn't THAT bad tonight. Of course the PA on 3rd and 10 is infuriating, but the ongoing joke of "execution" did have a bit of truth in this game. Gallon and Dileo dropped some gimmies and Gardner was chucking into Team America's chests all game. Saying that he did utilize short passing routes, screens to the outside and called some pretty effective Gardner runs.
I'm not saying he didn't make some boneheaded calls, but apart from going for it on 4th and 2 (I imagine that's a Hoke call anyways), I thought he was serviceable today
Mattison on the other hand deserves his normal praise, defense was ready today
Borges was awful. PA didn't fool anyone. NW defense is not good. Zero TDs without a 3rd down conversion in regulation..."not THAT bad"?
I'm not saying the offense wasn't bad, it certainly was. I'm saying that while there were certainly suspect play calls, the overall play calling wasn't atrocious. I think the overarching philosophy of the game (quick passes, somewhat effective runs with Green) isn't that dissimilar with what people would recommend.
Saying that, the excessive PAs are getting comical
Thank you Mr. Yost for your honesty. This is the worst offense in the history of Michigan football. If I have to read one more Sten Carlson post telling me how Al Borges offense compares to a Brittany Spears blowjob I am gonna puke! Al Borges has killed our year single handedly. The lack of adjustments and refusal to play to our strengths is mind boggling. You can see Brady is under pressure, that is the most balls he had shown all year going for it on 4th down. We went 11 quarters without a td versus some inept defenses. The faster Borges, Funk, Jackson are gone means this team has a chance next year, otherwise 8 and 4 will be a pipe dream. This is Michigan...not Ball State...youth is an excuse like dropping soap in the shower in prison not only will you get fucked in the ass but you will also be humiliated for not executing your plan!
"...youth is an excuse..."
I am not going to sit here and debate whether youth is a valid reason for this team struggling or not, it is and everyone knows it. The issue, IMO, is your inability to see that it won't stay that way forever. See, there is a short term liability to playing young interior OLinemen, but that liability turns into an asset when down the road your OL has 100 starts collectively. You cannot have that unless you play young kids from time to time. Michigan, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending how you look at it) is forced into that situation because of poor recruiting and planning a few seasons ago. Suck for today, but can really make the future exciting.
Brady is NO WHERE near being under pressure because his AD boss knows in specific detail the issues Team 134 suffers from -- but you can keep dreaming of dropping the soap in prison.
Hope you don't choke on your own puke, it would be shame to lose such a positive and friendly member of the site.
The 1934 UM team was 1-7. They were shut out five times, and scored a grand total of 21 points for the entire season.
The 1-7 1936 team was shut out three times and scored 36 points all season.
The 4-4 1937 team was shut out twice and scored 54 points all season.
The 4-4 1935 team was shut out three times and scored 68 points for the season.
The 2-7 1962 team was shut out four times and scored 70 points for the entire season.
But do go on and impress us with your extensive knowledge of Michigan football history.
borges' grandpa was the OC of that Mich team in the mid 30s.
/and it does highlight the silliness of the original comment.
But you don't have to back that far. This offense ranks #57 in the country in FEI; Rodriguez's first offense ranked 81st.
Even Carr's last offense in '07, with Henne and Hart hurt for much of the year, was statistically a bit worse than this one (though that might have changed this week).
that everyone was so quick to praise Bill O'Brien going for it on 4th down in 4OT while saying "Hoke was playing not to lose". Ignoring that had BOB not gotten teh 4th down, they lose. Even though they got it, it didn't guarantee anything. A FG would have tied it and dent it to 5OT.
And yet, Hoke does the gutsy thing playing to win, it doesn't work, and SO MANY of you are saying it was "reckless" and "the most terrible coaching decision they've ever seen", etc.
You can't have it both ways, folks. Sometimes gutsy calls don't work. Don't let hindsight cloud your judgment.
I, for one, think it's nice to have a coach willing to go for it in that situation. I would have been OK if he settled for the field goal too. I don't know what game theory says, but it wasn't as bad a decision as some of you are making it out to be.
What BlueinLansing said. Bad weather was a huge factor. Also Penn State didn't have much to lose as they're only playing for a record and not for a conference title or bowl game.
Huh? If they go for it and get it everyone is happy about the call.
Well they would still bitch about it or something else.
Poor weather and the offense had basically sputtered on short yardage situations all night and for the previous two weeks. Going for it is all about playing the odds and the odds did not support that call.
with the 4th and 2 was that the weather was awful, you were giving up a chip shot FG that at least gives you the comfort of knowing there's an OT. NW was still going into the wind on offense if you make the kick, chances are you get the ball back and now you're going for the win and not a desperate tie.
I didn't like it given the weather conditions.
I thought maybe the weather was one of the reasons for the call. NW hadn't moved the ball a lick lately and even if you fail you're giving them the ball on their five, facing a stiff wind and horizontal rain. I think the expectation was that you'd get good field position for the next drive.
You're trading twenty yards of field position and a chance at a TD for a not-quite-certain FG. It's not obvious either way, to me.
...that are SO frustrating and borderline infuriating.
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT A FG SENDS THE GAME INTO OT?
There was 5 minutes left in the game! NW could've EASILY drove down the field (and they started to do it)...and got a FG.
If we kick a FG there and tie the game and lose to NW on a last second FG. This whole board is burning along with Al Borges' house.
It really wasn't THAT gutsy of a call. It was the right call to go for it. It was a HORRIBLE playcall. Even if it would've worked it would've been a bad playcall. Call that on 2nd or 3rd down only.
that's laughable. i was at the game. i think NW had one decent drive the entire game into that wind, iirc.
One of four things happens on every play:
- He calls what you wanted and it fails. The players need to execute and anyway it wasn't quite what you said you wanted.
- He calls what you wanted and it works. Maybe he's finally getting it?
- He calls something different and it fails. Why didn't he call your play? It would have worked.
- He calls something different and it works. Your play would have worked too, probably better.
This seems like the perfect post to end the night on
Or..... he continually calls plays that everyone has seen over the course of the season that don't work and calls them in the worst situations. Maybe we try that.
We need one. He had the kicking team on the field in time.
Hoke can't win with the fans. Go conservative and prehistoric, they bitch. Be aggressive, take a gamble and the gamble fails, they bitch.
know how Brady can win with fans?
BEAT MSU... right now 1-2
BEAT OSU... 1-1 but I think you have an idea what's coming...
ALSO, BEAT THE TEAMS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BEAT!!!!!!
AND HIRE COMPETENT FUCKING PEOPLE!!!!
He is 1/2 on coordinators. Let's see if he can make a big boy decision and fix the offensive "brain trust" this off season.
Brady Hoke is 26-10 you twit.
At least have the decency to complain about our good coach after a loss.
But imagine what that record would have been if we'd embraced 21st century concepts and kept the other guy. We'd be 34-2, or 35-1, and probably have at least one national championship by now.
That's how this works. The guy that has the job gets evaluated by actual, objective results on the field. (Well, Borges doesn't even get that courtesy because "numbers lie" but you get my drift.) Everyone else--the armchair quarterback, the prior coach, the guy we imagine we'd hire next--gets evaluated in the glow of the imagination where the offense always clicks and the play call always works and we never lose more than one or two games a year.
Kept the other guy? Rodriguez? Bwahahahaha, well you just negated your entire argument
...if someone's playing the straight man or if the board is past any possibility of recognizing irony.
I've done my research, and I'm going to give it to you straight:
Al Borges is obviously an animated corpse, this is why his brain is working in such strange ways, And the beating he has taken has made Devin a Zombie as well.
Remember that half that Lewan didn't play? Yeah. His forehead is falling apart after every game now. His ears fell off in that game and they had to take his helmet away to keep his head from breaking off.
That facemask twist against MSU? Yup. He was going after brains for dinner.
In fact, it's the same all along the O-line. They've had to dig guys up and put uniforms on them.
Team 134 is mostly Zombies. And you can tell by how they're playing, of course. Why do you think they didn't play Fitz today? I'll tell you why. Because they had to sew his legs back on after last week.
So here's the thing. If we're going to play Zombie Ball, why not go all the way, dig up Bo, chant a few magical spells, throw them bones, re-animate him and get him back into coaching? How is he going to do worse than Zombie Borges or Hoke (and by the way, who else but a Zombie stands in the rain in a T-shirt for hours? See what I mean? It's becoming obvious).
I don't care about Iowa. I mean, really, no one cares about Iowa, win or lose. As for Ohio State, they're all "made" vampires. Vampire Urbz has seen to that. It's why they're so fast and powerful.
Zombies have no chance against vampires.
We need Werewolverines to beat them. Dig up Bo. He will see to it.
News flash to some of you. It's not every time you call a play action pass that you think that the play action is important. Sometimes you just like the route combination. And it turns out that, since PA is meant to help clear space behind LBs, that your longer routes, like those you might run on 3rd and 10, often have a PA component. Please stop complaining about PA on obvious passing downs.
It still forces a timing delay and is basically instant death against a blitz. Sorry, given the state of the team, PA is still stupid.
wish I could have posted this when people were on the board, but I live overseas and watched the game from BTN archive. But can someone please respond to this?
I feel like I watched a different game. Why not go for it on 4th and 2? In the context of the season, it's worth the risk. We were not playing to stay undefeated...we are playing to get more experience and try to find some positive momentum.
Also, didn't Borges call all the quick, dump it off type stuff that everyone has been screaming for? Did we feel good about how that went? There should have been 5 or 6 picks from those 'easy' throws! I think Al put the team in position to succeed (perhaps with a few exceptions) but it just doesn't seem like Gardner is making great decisions.
...and, yes, lots of reasons why he may not be making great decisions at this point.
I would've kicked it. Tie the game, and let the cards fall as they may.
I said this somewhere yesterday, but my problem was not with the decision in a generic sense but in the context of this particular team. The line can't block and Devin was wildly inaccurate much of the day. The defense was what kept usin the game. Why not let them win it? But we won,so all is good.
The offense was poor for most of regulation, but I'll bet Borges is around +10 in RPS. The play calling was pretty good. They made huge personnel changes at RB. I know the mob hates the cliche, but execution was 99% of our problem today. And I am shocked that we can't see this, as its not the "hidden" kind, in the trenches. We threw to the other team 4-6 times. We had drops. We had bad pass protection. Bosch stunk of 3-4 stretches that had potential. AND, Borges called a successful 2-minute drill with no timeouts. AND, he made successful adjustments in OT to the tune of 2 TD, a FG to save par, and a 2 pointer.
Fire Borges, but not on the basis of this game. Nebraska, sure.
Word on the playcalling. I think a lot of the execution issues had to do with the weather.
I've hated the playcalling the last couple of weeks, but thought it was good this week. There were a bunch of weather-induced drops, and a bunch of bad passes. We found ways to keep them honest enough to allow our backs to run for 100 yards, and we got the win. It's just really hard to score points in weather like that, so I attribute this one to the climate.
His job was and is not in jepoardy this season. Unlike so very many of you, Brandon understands that a transition like this requires years and is highly unlikley to be a smooth process. I dislike many of the decisions that Brandon has made, but I respect his experience in creating and running successful organizations. He understood the consquences of firing RichRod and destabilzing the program a second time in only three years. Part of making that decision was the consideration of a pretty high likelihood of an ugly season or two. He may have hoped to avoid it, but this is not a price that he did not expect to pay.
If this game did anything, it reenforced to Brandon that Hoke is the man to right the program. Brandon has been quoted saying that the final reason he decided that RichRod had to go before his 4th year was the attitude of the players entering the 2nd half of the bowl game. No determination to win, no seriousness, no motivation. Compare that to the attitude, focus, and determination to come back from that sack, and get the FG kicked, and then the intensity in OT. The team may be struggling with some fundamental aspects of play, but there is zero doubt that they play as a team and leave everything they have on the field. Hoke and his staff are responsible for that change.
So go ahead. Complain and bitch. Whine in your echo chamber. With the possible exception of Funk (and I suspect he is proabably safe as well) this coaching staff will be here next season and probably in 2015 as well.
i am of the mindset that 2014 is B1G championship or bust. unless we are decimated by injuries, anything less is unacceptable, and it will be time to restart. the schedule wont be favorable, but the team should have no excuses with a roster full of talented upperclassman, most of whom will be brady's recruits.
we will have to win at nd, sparty, and osu (how did that happen to our schedule?), but imo, falling to 1-3 to either of sparty or the buckeyes in and of itself is nearly enough for dismissal. its a tough proposition, but when this regime served up shit sandwiches back to back years it is fair.
if hoke wants borges, funk, whoever - that is fine. but it should be his job on the line.
edit: at northwestern too. wow.
So our schedule is really hard, Hoke has a winning record, but next year is Big Ten championship or bust? Why? Because you don't want to wait?
For the record, I always want to win the B1G and see any season which doesn't end in a win as a failure. But its not a firing offense. Jesus boys, lets keep our heads on straight.