The Snowflake Thread: Coaching

Submitted by LSAClassOf2000 on

This will be this evening's thread to discuss issues with the coaching and any issues you may have with the staff in general. 

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Reader71

November 2nd, 2013 at 6:51 PM ^

To be fair, this game plan looked like it was drawn up by Mgoblog. Very little running, lot of max protect deep stuff, a focus on Funchess and Gallon (so much so that the disastrous pick resulted), quick seam stuff/slants, more zone read than we've seen in a while. The line sucks. Fire someone if you have to. But I don't know how Mgoblog can complain about that game plan.

Joined: 08/30/2009

MGoPoints: 22968

denardogasm

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:21 PM ^

Exactly.  Every time I yelled I was saying "throw the damn ball!"  Now that I've had time to settle down I just feel bad for Gardner.  He had guys in his face the whole game and was obviously rattled, as anyone would be, Oline is too young, and Fitz is too small to be very effective blocking (and I'm willing to bet Green is not a good pass blocker at this point which is why he's not playing).  There's no offensive coordinator in the country who could've been successful today with this team.  I said it somewhere else in the thread, but THERE ARE 3 SCHOLARSHIP OLINEMEN OLDER THAN REDSHIRT FRESHMEN ON THIS TEAM.  Our problems are still on RR's recruiting and fuck anyone who calls me a Hoke apologist.

Joined: 09/11/2011

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mejunglechop

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:37 PM ^

There are 4, Chris Bryant, Jack Miller and the two tackles. Between those first two and the five redshirt freshmen, four of whom were quite hyped, we've found zero serviceable linemen so far between them. That's not encouraging. And last year when we had redshirt seniors in there it didn't go much better.

I'm coach a different sport at the high school level and I understand that the consequences firing an assistant are usually more complicated than what an outsider sees, but at this point I don't see a way around Funk being fired.

Joined: 07/09/2008

MGoPoints: 6618

mejunglechop

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:00 PM ^

You're begging the question. You're assuming that if those guys had talent we would have seen it when that's your conclusion. I say if you need multiple experienced 4+ star options at each position to field a half decent line you shouldn't be coaching for Michigan.

Joined: 07/09/2008

MGoPoints: 6618

Yeoman

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:14 PM ^

We never had any problem having multiple options at each position in the past, with at least one of them having some experience. Going three years without bothering to recruit an entire position group was a novel experiment. It's no surprise that it isn't working well.

Joined: 06/08/2011

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mi93

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:44 PM ^

You develop your team and work with what you've got. RR didn't have issues with the linemen he recruited. You have to work with what you've got. Borges (and maybe Hoke) was initally and now with his recruits is too stubborn to do that, staying committed to running plays his team is ill-equipped to execute. Witness running power at Penn State and not using enough FB today to counter the double A-gap blitzes. And why on earth would you run a single play from under center today. That's hubris and/or insanity. Put your players in a position to excel. Borges didn't do that enough today. My gut says Gardner's downfield throws were 60% on target. I'm looking forward to UFR, so execution goes only so far I think.

Joined: 11/15/2008

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Rage

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:23 PM ^

I was hoping they'd just stay in the shotgun and pass all day.  They should have had a lot more quick passes, but whatever.

My problem is that the Oline is a joke.  How can anyine even talk about power anything when you have such a soft line.  Practice be just a big pillow fight.

Also, Devin Gardner seems to be regressing.  He looks like he's afraid to throw the ball and that accounts for a LOT of negative yards.

Joined: 05/15/2012

MGoPoints: 848

maznblu

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:30 PM ^

It helps with the anxiety to try to feel some sense of control.  I hate losing leads to fire the coach! because it is hard to be a fan and have to just watch.

It doesn't matter that this is not a video game where you actually make those decisions.  We naturally want some sense of control over things that cause us pain.

But it is just an illusion of control, and sadly leads to more frustration because no one is doing what you want ("Run more pass plays!", "Fire the coach!").  It would be cool if people could find some self-soothing strategies that didn't involve bashing on your team (players and coaches), but this is the easiest and most convenient outlet.

Joined: 01/03/2011

MGoPoints: 587

ND Sux

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:19 PM ^

needed more failed rushing plays?  Got it.  Glad you're not our OC, or are you?

The ONLY quarter we had success was Q1, when we threw downfield.  After we stopped doing that, MSU stacked the box and we did NOTHING...the short throws weren't even there. 

 

Joined: 10/01/2009

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Reader71

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:42 PM ^

Do you know why we didn't throw down field? Because we called plays to do just that on probably 10 occasions and the QB didn't even get enough time to ATTEMPT a pass. You know those sacks are not designed runs, right? That someone is so stupid as to imply that Michigan was guilty of not trying to go down field often enough in this game is shocking. Truly shocking. It rattles me to my very core, that people can be so stupid.

Joined: 08/30/2009

MGoPoints: 22968

MGoBlue96

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:27 PM ^

game you were watching, there were more slow developing routes being run than there were short passes.

What the hell was the point of  PA fakes, when MSU never had to respect the run? All that accomplishes is having your QB hold the ball longer, when your o-line is already getting wrecked. If somebody could explain some logical reason why you would do that I would like to hear it.

In short, I think this game is on everybody, players and coaches alike. Borges with the exception of those pointless PA fakes was somewhat decent, but he needed to be a little better to give this team any chance of winning this game.

Joined: 12/26/2010

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Reader71

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:47 PM ^

You are not entirely correct. Your general point is good, but there are hidden variables. Some deep routes or combinations, particularly double moves, almost require play action. They take too long to develop to be matched with a 5- or 7-step drop. So they are paired with play action, which gives the QB something to do while also influencing DBs and LBs. I'd argue that the point of the PA in a few instances wasn't so much the influencing of the defense as the timing of the intended route combination.

Joined: 08/30/2009

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cozy200

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:54 PM ^

You ride that same tired opinion out like a pony ride at the county fair.  Lets be realistic.  We were out coached today.  Period.  Really just can't take 100 other peoples opinon on it?  I submit one that trumps yours and mine...

 

RVB...

 

 

1h

I stand behind my comments. Michigan should've played better coming off of a bye week. Our offensive weapons were not used properly

 

Now I understand you really think you are dead on about the faults with this team... I along with RVB would for sure disagree. Your uncle Al is a complete fucking joke. Let it go man, let it go.

 

As far as "what would you have them do with this youth"? Urban seems to have taken the same team fickle had and snap of 21 straight. Ohio's line? Better sure, but they weren't all that under Luke, so trust me, coaches are the end all to be all.

 

 

Joined: 01/02/2011

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Reader71

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:52 PM ^

Thanks for the credit. I also know we were out-coached. This does not mean that we weren't also out-played. Al's not my uncle. I've never met the man. I have no particular allegiance to him. I just think he's got a tough job with this line, and I doubt that ANY coordinator would have a good offense with this blocking. That's all I've ever said. And I've given really detailed answers based in reality. I could very well be wrong, but no one has every really been able to convince me why Borges is any worse than any other coordinator who ever had a shitty line.

Joined: 08/30/2009

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MGoBlue96

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:30 PM ^

It shouldn't fly now with the o-line. The o-line is currently as bad as those defenses were, regardless of youth that shouldn't be the case. People act as though UM is the only team dealing with some youth on the o-line. It may be an excuse to an extent, but this shitshow is worse than anybody could have imagined coming into the season.

Wisconson fired their o-line coach midseason last year, wouldn't be opposed to Michigan doing the same.

Joined: 12/26/2010

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Reader71

November 2nd, 2013 at 9:56 PM ^

Not everyone. I commented a few times in threads about last year's poor line that it was going to get worse. Young linemen are, by and large, bad. You can do things to cover it up, like pair him with an experienced guy to his side. But our entire interior line had a total of 0 starts (0 snaps?) going into this season. I knew it would be bad. I hoped Gardner could make up for it, to a large extent. He has, really. And the team is 6-2, right where I thought they'd be.

Joined: 08/30/2009

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Reader71

November 3rd, 2013 at 1:05 PM ^

I agree to a certain extent. You can't blame Coach Rod for everything. In reality, next season will be the last time we'll be able to blame him for anything. It will be 100% his fault that web will have no senior offensive linemen. The good news is that the line will be better, even if only marginally. For the record, I don't blame him a lot for this regime's problems. Just the line recruiting issue. BUT, and this is what makes your post an utter turd, the DEFENSE was the experienced group on his teams. There is no question that his offensive cupboard was bare, but the defense was in much better shape. It was supposed to be a strength. It wasn't.

Joined: 08/30/2009

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McSomething

November 3rd, 2013 at 1:53 AM ^

2004 we backed into a conference title. Then got humiliated in the Rose Bowl.

2005 was one of the most up and down seasons I have ever witnessed.

2006 was phenominal. Until Ohio State.

2007 was one of the most disappointing seasons ever.

Joined: 09/29/2010

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I Like Burgers

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:02 PM ^

This ain't Rich Rod's mess any more.  This is year three for Hoke, and the OL is an absolute tire fire.  That's on coaching.  There are MAC offenses out there that have better lines than Michigan.  There's enough talent there -- and yes, its young -- that they should be getting better results.

Joined: 10/06/2012

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I Like Burgers

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:21 PM ^

The youth excuse only goes so far.  They may be throwing freshman and sophomores out there, but you can still prepare them and teach them better than they have.  The OL just looks incompetent, and that's on the staff.  They should be better.  And the fact that we're throwing true freshman out there is on Hoke.  He had two recruiting classes before that to get talent on the OL.

And given what you've seen, do you really think the OL is going to be any better next season after they lose two senior tackles?  The OL will be even younger and even more inexperienced next season.

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