The Snowflake Thread: Coaching

Submitted by LSAClassOf2000 on

This will be this evening's thread to discuss issues with the coaching and any issues you may have with the staff in general. 

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KC Wolve

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:39 PM ^

Including Hoke should be seriously evaluated at the end of the year. Not saying fire him or him, but if there are better options at any spot, including Head Coach a change should be considered. The excuses of youth, QB, OC, RB, Rich Rod etc, are getting old. This is big boy football and 3 years is enough to not be embarrassed by teams that are on par or slightly better or worse than freaking Michigan. Especially with the recruits that have come in the last 2 years.

Joined: 10/09/2010

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BayWolves

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:58 PM ^

Evaluate all but get Funk out now.  On pretty much any other team in the B1G I think our linemen play much better.  No one in their right mind can defend the development and play of this disaster of an O Line

Joined: 06/21/2011

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alum96

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:45 PM ^

Shane would get destroyed by this OL.  A pro style QB would get destroyed behind an even younger OL in 2014.  But Devin will be here in 2014...  SHane begins in 2015 when in theory this AWESOME RECROOOTING pays off on the OL as they are upperclassmen finally. 

Joined: 04/28/2012

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cbs650

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:43 PM ^

Serious question: Is there an OC who Hoke can get to come to UM who is known? I dont know if he has the connections to do so. Also could coach Heck be an OC?

Joined: 02/07/2011

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Sten Carlson

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:44 PM ^

Guys, I understand everyone is upset with the loss.  But, putting historical consideration aside, is it that difficult to understand why MSU is better than Michigan at this point?  Dantonio took over in 2007, and dominated in-state recruiting until just recently.  I keep going back to the "pipeline" issue and so many just disregard it as if I am claiming it's aliens or something.  Michigan's pipeline broke down, and MSU not only remained in tact, but it actually benefitted from Michigan's breakdown.  Right when Michigan was descending, MSU was ascending.  The upperclassmen on both teams were recruited in 2009 or 2010, right after Michigan's 3-9 season, or a year later amidst the RR turmoil.  The 2009 and 2010 recruits should be the backbone of both teams, and they are for MSU, not so much for Michigan.

Again, is it THAT hard to understand?  I know Michigan fans vehmently refuse to admit that MSU can be better than Michigan.  But, it sure seems pretty obvious to me that they are, and the reasons WHY they are better are pretty obvious as well.

Now, in terms of today.  This was pretty much what I expected to see.  MSU defense is the best in the nation, and Michigan cannot run nor pass block with any effectiveness.  MSU had no respect for the run, and as they just came after Gardner.  I thought Borges called as many quick passes as possible, he tried to screen them, and basically called a decent game given the fact that he knew he was going to be one-dimensional.  With no pass blocking, even when going max protect, it's hard to air it out.  Press coverage, blitzes up the middle, and that's all she wrote.

I realize that many of you think I am an apologist for this coaching staff, and I suppose that I may be.  But, it is only because I think that the struggles are roster based, and that unless those roster issues are resovled, the next guy (if there is one) will struggle as well.

Joined: 11/16/2009

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Mr. Carson

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:47 PM ^

MSU hit gold with a couple of recruiting classes that now represent their upperclassmen.  Next year, they lose pretty much everyone.  We return almost everyone.  IMO, this is the last year we will see a result like this for a long time.

Joined: 10/26/2013

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Sten Carlson

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:08 PM ^

I most certainly understand why you, et. al., feel the way you do.  But, that is why I have always been emphasizing personnel issues as if  you really understood them, you might not feel as pessimistic as you do now.  When you say what you said above, it indicates to me that you intellectually understand what you're seeing, but emotionally you cannot bring yourself to admit just how far Michigan football had sunk at the end of Carr's tenure and into RR's three seasons.  I know it's hard, but an honest look at the roster/recruiting issues is so important. 

An unwillingness to accept what is the ultimate cause of poor performance is not how a multi-million dollar organization should operate.  For example, University of Florida was recruiting lights out under Zook, but they weren't getting the performance they expected out of those recruits.  They hire the young hotshot Meyer, and bang he wins an NC and looks like a hero.  But, if you read what Meyer said about that first NC team, he gives credit to Zook for giving him a roster fulll of experienced and talented UPPERCLASSMEN.  Look it up.

Again, I understand, and I am NOT saying that Hoke is the guys to get Michigan back to the promised land (although in my now too big gut, I feel he will be) I am saying that unless he's given time to rebuild the pipeline, the next guy will struggle as well.  If he isn't the guy (because of development and game management issues) but he's able to turn the program over with a roster of experienced upperclassmen, the next guy can succeed. 

Joined: 11/16/2009

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NateVolk

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:25 PM ^

Try the 2011 Michigan team where Hoke inherited a few high quality very veteran pieces from Carr's recruiting and Rich's development, including the most devastating two way player in the nation. With that schedule, it was enough to win double digit games (with a little luck, see ND and VT) 

The Rodriguez firing was about trajectory, direction, and sustainability. How do you want this thing to look in 10 years?  It wasn't about whether Rodriguez would win 8 to 10 games at Michigan in year 4 or 5, because he likely would have.

The only way to know if the Hoke direction is the correct direction and whether it is sustainable, is to allow the boys to become upper classmen. Year 3 is too early on that front and is for any coach.

What we do know:

Recruiting is very good to elite by any objective measure. Veteran players have stuck by this guy and had some break out years playing for him and the staff even though he didn't recruit them. There is now definite NFL talent on the roster in guys like Lewan (3 years of development), Funchess (year 2) and Gardner (year 3). There are also borderline NFL level guys like Ross (year 2) and Ryan (year 3)

It could get better or it could get worse, but it's simply too early to judge. As emotional as we all are, we'd do well to try to face that.

Joined: 07/19/2010

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NateVolk

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:09 PM ^

What he said word for word. 

I agree with an earlier post about the defense today being a slightly bigger worry.  Scheme wise, I think you have to be more aggressive against a guy like Cook and force him to make plays quickly and precisely.  The longer he has to sit and wait for an open man to emerge, the more likely there will be an open man.  Maybe use the athleticism you are recruiting and get them moving more in space like State does.

The Michigan offense needed big plays in the passing game to produce points against this defense. Every one knew it going in. Those plays are hard to come by with such little time play after play.

All this soft or not soft talk is a bunch of junk.  Michigan is very young in the middle of the offensive line and ran into a veteran defense that attacks that area very very  well.

People act surprised. They shouldn't be. Embarrassed is fine, but don't let it linger.

Unfortunately for all you impatient types, we can't honestly conclude anything about this staff and player development for another year or two minimum. Right now it's too many kids against too many men on other teams bringing disaster in certain games.

MSU played the men role to the extreme today and it was ugly.

Now about Coach Funk. The line does look disorganized in the middle and has all year, but let's see how it rebounds the rest of the year. This was not a good one to judge improvement because this is an excellent veteran defense at home.

There aren't easy answers. Continue to work and continue to give it time.

Joined: 07/19/2010

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TheTeam16

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:45 PM ^

Its time to stop with the michigan arrogance. We are bad, our program is bad. This is no longer a top 10 program with the shape it is in now. It is pathetic. 

We need to stop with the little brother shit, stop criticizing osu and calling them "Ohio," stop with all the bullshit. We are no longer int hat position. 

We are not in the position to say "We will win this game, duh. Because we are michigan." We thought we had escaped the valley of death when RR left and we won the sugar bowel. Joke is on us. 

Time to realize what this program has become, and will continue to be for the forseable future, and that is completely mediocre. 

I love Michigan and Michigan football, but just fucking stop. We aren't who we think we are, the program isn't what we thought it was. We are a shadow of the pride and arrogance we proclaim week in and week out. 

Joined: 09/07/2012

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TheTeam16

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:52 PM ^

I am obviously saying we as fans you dumb cunt. Does it hurt reading something you know is true? Are you one of those people that has your head shoved so far up your ass you cant smell the shit emminating from Ann Arbor the last 10 years? 

We are not specail anymore, we are not a top program anymore. Crucify me for saying it, ban me, idc its the fucking truth and all of the competetnt fans, like the one above knows it is the truth.

Joined: 09/07/2012

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anewnoise

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:48 PM ^

Michigan will only go as far as the coordinators allow them to.  Hoke is not a great coach, he needs to surround himself with a great staff and coordinators to be successful.  Hoke is an excellent recruiter, says the right things, and reinstated the "Ft. Schembechler" atmosphere.  Hoke will never publicly state that there needs to be a change but I believe him to be a smart enough a man to realize his strengths and weaknesses.  This is his "dream job,"  I would doubt he would let a coordinator threaten it.  If he is loyal to a fault and lets Borges and Funk take him down in flames, then he deserves to lose his job.  I'd say lets save the "Fire Hoke" talk until we give him a chance to make some changes in the offseason.  Making any staff changes at this point in the season does nothing but create more instability.  

Joined: 01/03/2011

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Fortran77

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:18 PM ^

All teammates need to learn about accountability now. You don't react to failure "later". Yes u accomplish something. Telling the team including miss saint is worth a message. We still have a few games left. I thought anything less than a big ten.... Blah blah blah. Show that you mean it Brady. Walk the walk.

Joined: 03/16/2013

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MGoBlue96

November 2nd, 2013 at 7:55 PM ^

excusing the coaching staff based on youth, talent, etc. the same people who didn't think that was valid under the previous coaching staff? If that is the case, than those individuals are flat out hypocrites. The o-line play is as bad as those defenses were, you can't simply excuse it away. I wouldn't be opposed to firing Funk right now, and think Borges should be looked at long and hard in the offseason. Mattison should also get some criticism, because his defense has done some uncharacterstic things this season, and his playcalling has lacked the creativity we saw the last two years.

Joined: 12/26/2010

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alum96

November 2nd, 2013 at 8:17 PM ^

Nothing will change next year. The offense has a chance to be worse - the OL could be worse - there will not be a single upperclassmen on the OL.  Gallon leaves, Fitz leaves.  You return Chesson and Funchess as WR with a bevy of untested guys behind them.  Green- who has shown little this year - is your presumed RB starter.  That is the team that is going to go up against OSU and win to get to the Big 10 title game? lol.

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